What does it take to make a REALLY successful British migrant in Australia?

[TerryDXB]

Originally Posted by Katie22

Well speaking from someone who has not been a successful migrant and comparing myself to my 2 sisters who have been I would say that they both possess more selfishness (not in a nasty sense of the word) complete disinterest in social issues or world issues, more materialistic, and big desire to have the 'perfect' home with the big backyard - the Aussie dream! Also they both married Australians so that probably sealed the deal too

 

I'm a mental health nurse and have a huge interest in social issues, as do the majority of my colleagues, so I'm not sure I understand your logic.

 

 

I can understand the logic perfectly.....but then I'm NOT a mental health nurse

[Harpodom]

Hi Terry, are YOU a successful migrant, whatever that means?

 

Originally Posted by Katie22

Well speaking from someone who has not been a successful migrant and comparing myself to my 2 sisters who have been I would say that they both possess more selfishness (not in a nasty sense of the word) complete disinterest in social issues or world issues, more materialistic, and big desire to have the 'perfect' home with the big backyard - the Aussie dream! Also they both married Australians so that probably sealed the deal too

 

I'm a mental health nurse and have a huge interest in social issues, as do the majority of my colleagues, so I'm not sure I understand your logic.

 

 

I can understand the logic perfectly.....but then I'm NOT a mental health nurse

[TerryDXB]

Hi Terry, are YOU a successful migrant, whatever that means?

 

Probably not..did a couple of years in Oz and mostly enjoyed it, but it just wasn't for me long term. I can see the attraction for some, but there wasn't enough there to entice me to stay. I've lived in many different places (Saudi, Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Singapore) and visited many others - once I've been there etc...then I've got a need to do something different. I'm currently based in rural Norfolk and really enjoying it, but my job allows me to live just about anywhere....might well end up in France, or I could spend my time split between the UK and South Africa...too many choices..

[Katie22]

I'm a mental health nurse and have a huge interest in social issues, as do the majority of my colleagues, so I'm not sure I understand your logic.

My logic is just speaking out of personal perspective, I have 2 siblings in Oz and 2 in England. The 2 in Oz are really happy here and I cannot ever see them wanting to move back. Neither of them have much interest in social and world issues, they're both very materialistic and they both achieved their happiness once they got the big house with the big yard and both of them would agree with me and I love them both dearly too!

 

As for other successful migrants I don't have have the knowledge to judge so certainly not judging you - sorry if it was perceived that way. When I first came over 12 yrs ago I knew I'd find it hard so ensured we didn't live in suburbs where all the Brits went and made determined effort to try and integrate more with Australians so all my friends here are Australian. The only contact I have with Brits are either through work or this forum which I just discovered this year - maybe that was my downfall!

[HappyHeart]

I really don't get the 'I try not to be friends with poms/avoid them at all costs' thing. Just go with the flow...I reckon 'trying to hard...makes an unsuccessful migrant....if its meant to be ..it will

[MARYROSE02]

i'm really sorry if I offended anyone as certainly didn't mean to be patronising about Aussies at all, just stating my opinion on why people I know have succeeded and I haven't - please don't take me so literally!

 

And you're right I haven't settled here at all, I've given it many years but still feel the same. Most Brits do and good luck to them - you included!

 

That's OK!

 

I was thinking, on the train to work in Penrith today, looking out at the passing scenery, the homes, the line of cars parked outside the stations, all those people at work in the city, the shopping centres, just how much it's the same as in the UK, but it's that very sameness that both repels and attracts people.

 

I mean in the sense, that, for the first couple of years here, everything seems so different, but what you miss at 'home' is exactly the same thing.

 

I was in Westfield at Penrith, looking at people shopping, eating their lunch, and I could have been in any shopping centre in the UK. Don't Westfield have a few there anyway? Everybody is doing exactly the same thing, in the same shops (with different names.)

 

I can live in either country, so I don't notice the difference, but if you are homesick/unsettled, well everything is alien.

 

I opened an envelope at work the other day, which had come to us by mistake. It was from a birdwatching society, with a list of day trips over the coming months. Imagine two birdwatchers who both emigrate to Australia. One is homesick and does not see, nor is interested in the myriad breeds of birds in Australia. The other just sees the possibilities of seeing all the different types of birds that he would otherwise never see.

 

Maybe it's the wrong analogy? But if you can settle here, then everything becomes just 'normal'. If you don't settle, then it is forever 'alien.'

[wattsy1982]

WHAT is a 'failed' migrant?

 

Someone who has always wanted to do it but never did!

[flag of convenience]

That's OK!

 

I was thinking, on the train to work in Penrith today, looking out at the passing scenery, the homes, the line of cars parked outside the stations, all those people at work in the city, the shopping centres, just how much it's the same as in the UK, but it's that very sameness that both repels and attracts people.

 

I mean in the sense, that, for the first couple of years here, everything seems so different, but what you miss at 'home' is exactly the same thing.

 

I was in Westfield at Penrith, looking at people shopping, eating their lunch, and I could have been in any shopping centre in the UK. Don't Westfield have a few there anyway? Everybody is doing exactly the same thing, in the same shops (with different names.)

 

I can live in either country, so I don't notice the difference, but if you are homesick/unsettled, well everything is alien.

 

I opened an envelope at work the other day, which had come to us by mistake. It was from a birdwatching society, with a list of day trips over the coming months. Imagine two birdwatchers who both emigrate to Australia. One is homesick and does not see, nor is interested in the myriad breeds of birds in Australia. The other just sees the possibilities of seeing all the different types of birds that he would otherwise never see.

 

Maybe it's the wrong analogy? But if you can settle here, then everything becomes just 'normal'. If you don't settle, then it is forever 'alien.'

 

I think you can look at it another way. Instead of being alien it can become all too familiar all too predicting and all too normal. Australia and UK are similar in so many ways. To my mind in respects it is almost like moving to a different part of the country at least in the populist sense. Same language. Same institutions. Same laws and political system to a very large extent. Akin to a Frenchman moving to New Caledonia, which is looked on as part of France anyway.

 

The sameness as I have long ascertained is though comforting to many is also the kicker. The subtle differences and not so subtle like the incredible over regulation of rules within Australia, but still easily understandable if not agreed with.

Going to a country with clear differences such as culture, especially language, thee are far clearer markers into just how successful the migrant has adopted to their new land, regardless of duration spent there.

 

In other words the similarity of Australia is both its making and undoing with the individual migrant experience.

[flag of convenience]

Someone who has always wanted to do it but never did!

 

I see what you mean but by definition if never actually migrated can't really have failed by virtue of never under taken it in the first place.

[flag of convenience]

Because my family are in Australia and I want to be with them.

Because I love life there and feel so much more relaxed

Because I've already made friends there even though I've only been for long holidays so far

Because I feel at peace there and can see myself living there comfortably to the end of my days

Because simply I love it

 

Well your family being here may be the deciding factor. But a holiday is hardly an insight into longer term desirability.

[flag of convenience]

I'm a mental health nurse and have a huge interest in social issues, as do the majority of my colleagues, so I'm not sure I understand your logic.

 

I'm in or was in a related social area and I fully understand the logic, casting my net a little wider.

[wattsy1982]

I see what you mean but by definition if never actually migrated can't really have failed by virtue of never under taken it in the first place.

 

I guess, well in that case they have then failed at being a failed migrant...double failure!!

[flag of convenience]

My logic is just speaking out of personal perspective, I have 2 siblings in Oz and 2 in England. The 2 in Oz are really happy here and I cannot ever see them wanting to move back. Neither of them have much interest in social and world issues, they're both very materialistic and they both achieved their happiness once they got the big house with the big yard and both of them would agree with me and I love them both dearly too!

 

As for other successful migrants I don't have have the knowledge to judge so certainly not judging you - sorry if it was perceived that way. When I first came over 12 yrs ago I knew I'd find it hard so ensured we didn't live in suburbs where all the Brits went and made determined effort to try and integrate more with Australians so all my friends here are Australian. The only contact I have with Brits are either through work or this forum which I just discovered this year - maybe that was my downfall!

 

It is hard enough connecting as it is. I certainly wouldn't limit social contact with ant particular group in the effort to fit in or be accepted. I do agree the interest in matters political and worldly are limited. Local social issues more inclination.

[flag of convenience]

I would say someone who has become an Australian citizen, settled here and no intention of going back.

 

You haven't qualified yet Harpo I'm afraid.

 

I rather find him on the ball with matters Australian. Knowing what you do and don't like can only enhance the migrant experience. Those in complete denial of the irritants are less likely to settle in the long term.

[flag of convenience]

A massive bank balance, happy go lucky carefree couldn't give a ***** ass what anyone thinks helps i suppose, for us it was just a natural migration from living a day to day to living a comfortable lifestyle, a certain amount of conformance is required as things are naturally different here, afterall it is a foreign country to the one you moved from remember.

 

A massive bank balance would see most anywhere fit. Goes beyond material possessions though as that can get exceptionally tedious. More the mindset in countering countless often small nags when put together can be formable. A migrant 'success' one day can be a returnee further down the track. The term is somewhat obsolete.

[flag of convenience]

I guess, well in that case they have then failed at being a failed migrant...double failure!!

 

Your right double whammy. Except saved on the coin and compatibility issues further down the track.

[wattsy1982]

Nothing ventured.....

[flag of convenience]

I have to say that you are being extremely patronising to most Australians, with that list of their 'attributes?' (I hope that is not their good points!'

 

If there was no interest in world affairs and social issues, then the main newspapers - The Australian, Sydney Morning Herald, The Age, etc, and the TV and radio channels, would be devoid of news, whether internal or international. And the government would not be spending so much money on Royal Commissions and ICAC to investigate various issues.

 

And the desire for a beautiful home - 'the Aussie dream' - could also be called 'the Pommie dream', when you consider how Bunnings and B & Q are almost exact copies of each other, both full every day with people doing 'something' to their homes and gardens. Witness, also, the almost identical obsession with gardening, DIY, 'makeover', etc programmes on TV and radio.

 

The towns, suburbs, and countryside may look a little different, but the inhabitants are living exactly the same lives. The only thing I have to change when I move between Australia and OZ, is to start talking about a different football code to my mates in the pub. And even then it's often the same code.

 

You sound like you have not settled into the Aussie way of life? It happens. I went back to England for twelve years, (after eighteen in Sydney.) Going back to England (TO LIVE!) was like emigrating all over again. I'd been back loads of times for holidays, mostly in summer when England is particularly glorious, but to actually 'live' - work, as opposed to 'holiday', is so different.

 

But the lifestyle is exactly the same. You just have to make new friends, get to know a place as a resident rather than a tourist. It was a new village, too, my parents having moved all of seven miles whilst we were in OZ. Now I think of that new village - Marchwood - as where I actually come from, rather than Blackfield, where I was brought up. (On 'The Waterside' on the western edge of Southampton Water and in The New Forest if anybody is interested.)

 

Then I had to do the same thing, a third time, when I came back to Sydney.

 

Having newspapers doesn't really point towards a measurement in worldly awareness. Every country in the world has papers. Even though with extremely high illiterate rates. The main thing in the case of blokes here in WA, with the local 'West Australian' newspaper in their possession is turning to the back and reading the sport. I observe this with frequency.

 

So while there are of course newspapers, that is no indication on political or worldly literate levels among the population. Papers are popular for numerous reasons for example they underline sales in the stores, fashion page, crossword, gossip pages, and the like.

 

Not forgetting I think all papers are trending downwards as social media and sound bites replace the written material. Possible result could be suggested even less in depth knowledge. Folk rely on Wikipedia to fill in the often considerable gaps in actually knowing about the subject in any analytical sense broadly speaking.

 

The housing emphasis came probably later to Britain, where until three decades back or so the great majority rented. Australia far longer involved in this game. It is overdone imo and agree with the poster. But another issue.

 

The difference between the two countries that really stand out to me is UK has London. Perhaps due to living three quarters of my time plus in that city when lived in UK, I don't know, but nothing ino comes close to that in Australia.

 

The rest of the country you may well have a point.

[flag of convenience]

Nothing ventured.....

 

I suppose though although there is so much of the world to venture to.

[Katie22]

I really don't get the 'I try not to be friends with poms/avoid them at all costs' thing. Just go with the flow...I reckon 'trying to hard...makes an unsuccessful migrant....if its meant to be ..it will

I'm presuming this comment was probably aimed at mine and I really didn't mean that, sorry finding it hard to get my point across yet again. I just didn't go and live in areas where lots of Brits migrated to in an effort to try to integrate more and I do think that is not such a bad thing for a new migrant to do. From then on I have met very few Brits (other than clients in my workplace) so have not had the opportunity to make friends with them & most definitely would never try to avoid them at all, that sounds horrible!

[Paul1Perth]

I'm presuming this comment was probably aimed at mine and I really didn't mean that, sorry finding it hard to get my point across yet again. I just didn't go and live in areas where lots of Brits migrated to in an effort to try to integrate more and I do think that is not such a bad thing for a new migrant to do. From then on I have met very few Brits (other than clients in my workplace) so have not had the opportunity to make friends with them & most definitely would never try to avoid them at all, that sounds horrible!

 

Sometimes it's just easier being around other ex-pats. They know what you have gone through and are interested in where you came from, how you have found it since being here, what you do to amuse yourself here, what your interests are. You all have something in common and it's just easier to talk to them than your average aussie, who've lived here all their lives, seen poms come and go and are probably a bit sick of them talking about the old country and where they came from.

 

Nothing wrong with finding people you have things in common with, even if it feels a bit strange sat chatting to people from the UK in a foreign land. Whatever makes it easier to settle is all that matters. If you end up with lots of English friends then so be it.

 

We have a very mixed group of friends now but I think that was because we joined the local surf club, got involved, competed in carnivals, was a coach for the kids so got to know a lot of aussies through that. Coached the kids at AFL too which a lot of aussies had a laugh about with my accent. Helps break the ice though and once you've met a few and can talk about what they're interested in (AFL more than EPL, that sort of stuff) then everything just becomes plain sailing.

[Katie22]

It is hard enough connecting as it is. I certainly wouldn't limit social contact with ant particular group in the effort to fit in or be accepted. I do agree the interest in matters political and worldly are limited. Local social issues more inclination.

 

I seriously do not meet that many Brits other than clients at work. My workmates are Aussies, my kids friends parents are Aussies, my sisters have married Aussies. So it's certainly not a question of limiting social contact, the only time I limited myself was avoiding the areas most migrants head towards - is that wrong do you think? I also don't think that's the reason I've never settled, I think I'm just one of the few who loves Australia but it's just not for me.

[Paul1Perth]

I seriously do not meet that many Brits other than clients at work. My workmates are Aussies, my kids friends parents are Aussies, my sisters have married Aussies. So it's certainly not a question of limiting social contact, the only time I limited myself was avoiding the areas most migrants head towards - is that wrong do you think? I also don't think that's the reason I've never settled, I think I'm just one of the few who loves Australia but it's just not for me.

 

No I don't think it's wrong, as long as you like the area where you are living. When we were looking round for areas we liked we didn't consider whether there would be other ex-pats or not living there, we just liked the area. We had a good idea there might be a lot of poms that live in the area we do, near the coast, far enough out of the City at the time to be affordable, nice houses, good suburb. We had been renting in Como for about a year where there aren't a lot of poms but it didn't make us feel any less settled, we have always enjoyed it.

 

I think we became more settled when we got our own place and liked the area we chose though.

[starlight7]

These days I don't think there are any particular areas that the British migrate to- certainly never identified any round here and i have been here many years. I think in the 1950s and possibly 60s that happened but not now, least not in Victoria. There are some groups which stay together ( thinking Vietnamese, some Italian people, some Chinese, Sudanese, Myanmar) but the British don't seem to be amongst them.

[Katie22]

Sometimes it's just easier being around other ex-pats. They know what you have gone through and are interested in where you came from, how you have found it since being here, what you do to amuse yourself here, what your interests are. You all have something in common and it's just easier to talk to them than your average aussie, who've lived here all their lives, seen poms come and go and are probably a bit sick of them talking about the old country and where they came from.

 

Nothing wrong with finding people you have things in common with, even if it feels a bit strange sat chatting to people from the UK in a foreign land. Whatever makes it easier to settle is all that matters. If you end up with lots of English friends then so be it.

 

We have a very mixed group of friends now but I think that was because we joined the local surf club, got involved, competed in carnivals, was a coach for the kids so got to know a lot of aussies through that. Coached the kids at AFL too which a lot of aussies had a laugh about with my accent. Helps break the ice though and once you've met a few and can talk about what they're interested in (AFL more than EPL, that sort of stuff) then everything just becomes plain sailing.

You're right for some it is easier being round ex-pats as when the initial excitement dies down you can often feel like a square peg in a round hole and other migrants can help you through that. I'm afraid my circumstances were slightly different compared to most as I really didn't want to move here but was persuaded (yes I was a fool!) and just tried to convince myself it would only be for a few years. I think I thought that being around other Brits would just remind me of where I came from and where I wanted to be so which was hard so I just wanted to shut it out. But as the years went by I resigned myself to the fact that moving back wouldn't happen, my ex partner didn't want to and I didn't want to disrupt my kids lives or take them away from him so I accepted it and have made a good life here but Australia never ticked the boxes for me.

 

I don't know about other cities but there are areas in Adelaide where new British migrants veer towards more, mainly to the north and the south of the city , I suppose that's just a natural thing. In fact the suburb I live in evidently the majority of residents are born in India, and the neighboring one is China I think. It's just like little countries in one city. We all tend to want to stick to our own.