HOW did Tony Abott get elected??!

[familybonesinoz]

Tina2

I applaud your idea about only having social payments for two children. It is undoubtedly a sensible idea. However some will tar you as an extremist. And that is the problem. The lovey brigade instantly scream 'sexist', 'racist', 'homophobe', 'islamophobe' or whatever the in-vogue 'phobe' of the day is.

 

This idea was briefly discussed in the UK earlier this year. It was immediately put down because it was called as Racist by those organisations who have links to Islamic groups. Their reasoning being that as Muslim families have typically in excess of 6 children they would be discriminated against. And so the topic was killed off by tea time. You couldn't make it up if you tried. I hope the Abbott Government would have the courage to discuss it here.

 

The debate on benefits, immigration policies and all those things for which there is not a One Size Fits All solution has to be had, out loud and without fear of stigmatizing those who join in. But when someone starts the debate it is closed down immediately.

 

The other day the UNHCR chairwomen (is it ok to use that term?) of the hearing into Christmas Island stated, "I have SEEN armed guards on every internal sector in the detention centre..." On its own it makes a great sound bite. She was called on this by the Immigration Minister who asked her to withdraw the comment as it was wrong. She became increasingly flustered as her remark was a lie. Not more not less. Her response was to say, "I would like to move on". But the Minister insisted that she either retract her words or give proof. Her answer was that, "she had HEARD there were".

A massive difference.

 

Helping people get back on track is a basic part of any Social Policy. Helping people who wont help themselves is not.

[familybonesinoz]

Paul1Perth

 

I always thought that Tony Bliar was out on his own when it came to self centered, egotistical and self righteous political leaders.

 

And then I came across Premier Barnett!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I agree that any party can over spend and borrow. But I cannot forget that both UK and AU sitting Labour Governments both signed off on exorberent and unaffordable spending pledges in the days before they lost power. A note was left in the UK Treasury office for the incoming Tory minister it read, and I quote, "Too late we've spent the lot!"

[Tina2]

Tina2

I applaud your idea about only having social payments for two children. It is undoubtedly a sensible idea. However some will tar you as an extremist. And that is the problem. The lovey brigade instantly scream 'sexist', 'racist', 'homophobe', 'islamophobe' or whatever the in-vogue 'phobe' of the day is.

 

This idea was briefly discussed in the UK earlier this year. It was immediately put down because it was called as Racist by those organisations who have links to Islamic groups. Their reasoning being that as Muslim families have typically in excess of 6 children they would be discriminated against. And so the topic was killed off by tea time. You couldn't make it up if you tried. I hope the Abbott Government would have the courage to discuss it here.

 

The debate on benefits, immigration policies and all those things for which there is not a One Size Fits All solution has to be had, out loud and without fear of stigmatizing those who join in. But when someone starts the debate it is closed down immediately.

 

The other day the UNHCR chairwomen (is it ok to use that term?) of the hearing into Christmas Island stated, "I have SEEN armed guards on every internal sector in the detention centre..." On its own it makes a great sound bite. She was called on this by the Immigration Minister who asked her to withdraw the comment as it was wrong. She became increasingly flustered as her remark was a lie. Not more not less. Her response was to say, "I would like to move on". But the Minister insisted that she either retract her words or give proof. Her answer was that, "she had HEARD there were".

A massive difference.

 

Helping people get back on track is a basic part of any Social Policy. Helping people who wont help themselves is not.

 

The Dutch have now openly said that there country is loosing its identity and that multi culturisum is not working. The burka has been banned, and everyone who lives there must speak dutch or they have to leave.

I agree it is time for major discussions as the under current is growing stronger that we as a nation are pandering far to much to those who choose to live here but not accept our way of life.

Perhaps it is time to re think a return to national service, home based that is I dont propose we send them off to fight in Iraq. So your choice becomes, work, study or military. I have concerns in regards to work for the dole that people would simply refuse to do the work, if your in the military you are well supervised and taught a skill you can use at the end of your service.

There are also issues in centre link that the staff dont even know what the rules are. One says one thing and a different staff member says something else.

There is supposedly a push that if you cant get a job locally well move to find one or loose benifits so what happens to single parents who are not allowed to move under family court orders ?

There are so many questions that need to be asked and issues addressed

[flag of convenience]

The Dutch have now openly said that there country is loosing its identity and that multi culturisum is not working. The burka has been banned, and everyone who lives there must speak dutch or they have to leave.

I agree it is time for major discussions as the under current is growing stronger that we as a nation are pandering far to much to those who choose to live here but not accept our way of life.

Perhaps it is time to re think a return to national service, home based that is I dont propose we send them off to fight in Iraq. So your choice becomes, work, study or military. I have concerns in regards to work for the dole that people would simply refuse to do the work, if your in the military you are well supervised and taught a skill you can use at the end of your service.

There are also issues in centre link that the staff dont even know what the rules are. One says one thing and a different staff member says something else.

There is supposedly a push that if you cant get a job locally well move to find one or loose benifits so what happens to single parents who are not allowed to move under family court orders ?

There are so many questions that need to be asked and issues addressed

 

Not exactly Tina2. The Netherlands does have a government to the right which is undoing a number of the liberal policies that that nation was famed for. One of those being the citizenship laws. To become Dutch I would indeed be required to pass a language test. But not to live there.

[Parley]

Harpo,

What are the anti-terror laws proposed that you are unhappy about ?

[flag of convenience]

Paul1Perth

 

I always thought that Tony Bliar was out on his own when it came to self centered, egotistical and self righteous political leaders.

 

And then I came across Premier Barnett!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I agree that any party can over spend and borrow. But I cannot forget that both UK and AU sitting Labour Governments both signed off on exorberent and unaffordable spending pledges in the days before they lost power. A note was left in the UK Treasury office for the incoming Tory minister it read, and I quote, "Too late we've spent the lot!"

 

So the often held theory that only the Tories can manage finance is wrong. WA lost another triple A rating yesterday. While not being against an obvious need for Perth to build infrastructure, in fact far more is needed in the way of transport. But another issue.

 

Also the Tory preference to selling off all the silver, later picked up by New Labour is hardly a recipe for future prosperity. Just greatly limits future prospects and increases prices. You cannot say in the Australian context that either party performed with much hindsight. All short termism with both attempting to curry favour by buying their way into/or retaining power.

 

Australia is very poorly served by its political elite regardless of the stripes.

[flag of convenience]

Very well said familybonesinoz.

It is great to hear your view having seen the British experience first hand.

 

You'll be equally understandably over joyed then to hear my view of the British experience first hand then.

[flag of convenience]

Don't just blame Labour Governments. We have had the Liberals in power in WA for a few years now and spending is out of control on a few major projects that we really could do without. Sure the new stadium will be nice and same with Elizabeth Quay, but we could have done without either. Governments, no matter what political persuasion, overspend sometimes. A government that's not bothered about being popular and is only interested in balancing budgets is one doomed for only one term in power. Maybe this one will be it.

 

Yes and fiscal management being quite the talk these days few parties are going to be as irresponsible whatever their colour. The WA Liberals probably misjudged the longevity of the boom in this state and like many ordinary people, over confident in the resources to continue to deliver or where too over committed to pull back when the real state of the economy was known.

 

Still we need the infrastructure to keep Perth a desirable place to visit, to study and entice possible business when the boom days have receded into memory. Costs will need to decline but evidence already about that this is beginning to happen.

[Tina2]

Not exactly Tina2. The Netherlands does have a government to the right which is undoing a number of the liberal policies that that nation was famed for. One of those being the citizenship laws. To become Dutch I would indeed be required to pass a language test. But not to live there.

Thank you Flag of C, I must go back and re read it.

[Paul1Perth]

Paul1Perth

 

I always thought that Tony Bliar was out on his own when it came to self centered, egotistical and self righteous political leaders.

 

And then I came across Premier Barnett!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I agree that any party can over spend and borrow. But I cannot forget that both UK and AU sitting Labour Governments both signed off on exorberent and unaffordable spending pledges in the days before they lost power. A note was left in the UK Treasury office for the incoming Tory minister it read, and I quote, "Too late we've spent the lot!"

 

I think it was meant as a joke but he was only half joking. The lot that's in now have put things to right though haven't they.

 

If you don’t adjust for inflation, Osborne has borrowed more in under four years than the Labour Party borrowed over 13 years. It’s unusual for Ed Balls to talk about debt accumulation as a bad thing, perhaps because his policy remains the accumulation of even more debt. But here’s the story so far:-

[flag of convenience]

Thank you Flag of C, I must go back and re read it.

 

I should underline we on British or other EU passports have the free right of movement under the agreement. We would not need to pass a Dutch language test unless going for citizenship. This of course does not apply to those from further afield where an integration test does now come into play. I would imagine it could be easily used to stem immigration from countries further afield. But a reaction to negative Dutch opinion a few years ago on matters relating to immigration. I have no hard evidence on the requirement on language skills but assume it could be even used on a case by case basis with other considerations around the ability to integrate being of consideration.

 

I vaguely know an Aussie guy working at a university over there, whom I know speaks/spoke no Dutch prior to his contractual engagement and suspect his German born wife didn't either.

[familybonesinoz]

The Debt Graph ties me directly back to a couple of my earlier points. That continuing to accumulate debt is a bad thing. A large proportion of the increased borrowings are only to pay the interest on the previously borrowed money. How crazy is that? You would never be allowed to service your household debt in this way by a bank.

 

This Government, whether you support them or not, must be allowed to start reducing the amount that it is borrowing. If not then it becomes exponential and we, with the exception of the Super Rich, all suffer.

 

Another point that it reiterates is that by continuing to allow unskilled and therefore low paid workers into the country the amount of Government on-costs or more accurately Tax Payers Costs (Family Benefits, Child Benefits, subsidised housing, additional infrastructure costs such as school places and Medicare) all RISE. Be it that they will unfortunately, over their working life take far more out of the system than they are ever able to put in. That is unsustainable. Sad but true.

[Guest]

Easy. He's represents the values of contemporary Australia. You could almost say that he is the living embodiment of this grate nation.

[Guest]

You'll be equally understandably over joyed then to hear my view of the British experience first hand then.

 

:biglaugh::notworthy:

[MARYROSE02]

sorry, are you trying to make Abott appear more reasonable?

 

Cos I'm reading the above and arriving at quite the opposite conclusion

 

Unis have always been hotbeds of radicalism. But the lefties hate it when somebody opposed to them uses the same tactics.

 

You must be even more angry at the way that mobs of students at both Melbourne and Sydney universities, violently demonstrated to stop two female Liberals from speaking. Somehow, I doubt it.

[Bibbs]

If you don’t adjust for inflation, Osborne has borrowed more in under four years than the Labour Party borrowed over 13 years.

 

Which leads me to say "What cuts?". People moan about "too much, too soon", but in fact they have been spending more.

 

At least the UK economy has turned around, and the Torys have got more people working.

[Harpodom]

Unis have always been hotbeds of radicalism. But the lefties hate it when somebody opposed to them uses the same tactics.

 

You must be even more angry at the way that mobs of students at both Melbourne and Sydney universities, violently demonstrated to stop two female Liberals from speaking. Somehow, I doubt it.

 

No mate, what I find quite telling is that even when he was young and idealistic, even then, Abbot was a Thatcherite.

 

Tell me that's not a bit....weird, creepy even?

 

I imagine 'Young Abott' during his Oxford years back in the 80's, sneering at Ben Elton and 'all this alternative comedy crap, not a patch on proper comedians like Bernard Manning and Jim Davdson', and ABSOLUTELY hating Spitting Image for it's vicious portrayal of his hero Maggie.

 

To you that might signal 'top bloke'. To me, the polar opposite. :biglaugh:

[Parley]

Maggie was voted by all British politicians as the greatest ever peace time British PM so not unusual that any young aspiring politician would want to emulate her achievements.

[TheLoadedDog]

Hmm.. OK. Will start this post by way of disclaimer, just to get it out of the way.

 

I am (conservative version, or) I self-identify as (long-winded leftie version) a conservative. This doesn't mean I have to automatically love whatever main conservative party is on offer, but basically Ra! Ra! Howard / Thatcher / Dubya / etc....

 

Now then...

 

I voted for Mr Rabbit. I wish I hadn't, now. The Liberal government has lurched too far to the right for my liking.

 

As a man though, I still don't think Toned Abs is a bad bloke. I think he's quite decent. I also don't think he's stupid. Like Dubya, he's a little inarticulate, yes. Stupid? No. His main problem, I think, is that he's a little suggestible, and is led astray by asreholes within his party.

 

No, the truly evil, malevolent S.O.B. is one Joe Hockey. Never been able to stand him. Never will.

[Harpodom]

Hmm.. OK. Will start this post by way of disclaimer, just to get it out of the way.

 

I am (conservative version, or) I self-identify as (long-winded leftie version) a conservative. This doesn't mean I have to automatically love whatever main conservative party is on offer, but basically Ra! Ra! Howard / Thatcher / Dubya / etc....

 

Now then...

 

I voted for Mr Rabbit. I wish I hadn't, now. The Liberal government has lurched too far to the right for my liking.

 

As a man though, I still don't think Toned Abs is a bad bloke. I think he's quite decent. I also don't think he's stupid. Like Dubya, he's a little inarticulate, yes. Stupid? No. His main problem, I think, is that he's a little suggestible, and is led astray by asreholes within his party.

 

No, the truly evil, malevolent S.O.B. is one Joe Hockey. Never been able to stand him. Never will.

There is some merit to that argument

[Diane]

Well I quite liked Margaret Thatcher, didn't like Blair, have a serious soft spot for Boris Johnson, but cannot abide either Tony Abbott, Joe Hockey, either of the awful Bishop women, or the lowest scum of the low, Christopher Pyne. So I'm not a leftie - I'm just someone who judges people by their actions and attitudes and that lot have sunk lower than I would believe it possible for a human to sink in their behaviour and treatment of people they are supposed to be "serving"!

 

Even their voices seem to be getting whinier and whinier and this whole "we're doing it for your own good" line they keep spouting - Christopher Pyne today a case in point trying to say making further education a privilege only the rich can afford is actually a "good deal". If this lot don't get voted out and voted out soon, I fear for the future of Australia in so many ways.

 

There are some interesting alternative ways to raise money here http://campaigns.greens.org.au/ea-action/action

Edited August 28, 2014 by Diane

[steveinmunich]

[starlight7]

Cristopher Pyne is a disgrace, shocking man. I don't hear the Labour party shouting from the rooftops about his proposals. They should be. They really need to get rid of boring Bill and find someone with a bit of bottle. Meanwhile I will still be voting for the libs because I really wouldn't trust the opposition just now.

[Tina2]

Cristopher Pyne is a disgrace, shocking man. I don't hear the Labour party shouting from the rooftops about his proposals. They should be. They really need to get rid of boring Bill and find someone with a bit of bottle. Meanwhile I will still be voting for the libs because I really wouldn't trust the opposition just now.

Sad you will vote LNP, they have to go before they destroy all that is good about Aus. Vote independant if you dont like any of the other major parties ( though I admit they are not really major any more) I would rather vote for the deep sea fishing party before I would vote for LNP. Bill ?? Oh does he ever have anything but that blank look on his face ? Your right labor need someone with a bit of fire. Realy Like Scott Ludlum from the greens but we are not in WA.

[MARYROSE02]

Sad you will vote LNP, they have to go before they destroy all that is good about Aus. Vote independant if you dont like any of the other major parties ( though I admit they are not really major any more) I would rather vote for the deep sea fishing party before I would vote for LNP. Bill ?? Oh does he ever have anything but that blank look on his face ? Your right labor need someone with a bit of fire. Realy Like Scott Ludlum from the greens but we are not in WA.

 

Why would the LNP destroy all that is good about Australia? Have the LNP done that in the past? Perhaps what you see is 'good' is what I and so many other LNP voters see as 'bad!'