HOW did Tony Abott get elected??!

[Parley]

Is this the report you mean Diane ?

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-27/nbn-cost-benefit-analysis-released/5698838

[flag of convenience]

Ok I'll take a leaf out of Palmers book and apologise if anything I posted caused offence. In my justification I was just querying something I'd read on a few FB sites and wondering if it was true or not, not saying it was true, but the last thing I'd want is to get the site and its owners into any trouble so I have deleted the offending remark.

 

being fancied by someone.

Is it you I should be apologising to Parley, because unless you ARE Tony Abbott in disguise, then I'm not sure how you have been hurt by it?

 

Got me beat, I'm afraid. Only thing I can think of is that particular poster playing the hurt card for their own self satisfaction. Tone likely glowing by being fancied by someone, if at all true which must be a bit hard to swallow under the circumstances.

[Tina2]

I voted for the 'ALP lost it' option because there was so much infighting in that party that I think a lot of people thought ANYTHING would have to be better. Or they were taken in by the multitude of promises made by the Coalition before the election.

 

I think Labor are only just now beginning to sort of get their act together - there hasn't been any talk of internal fighting that I have heard - so perhaps they learnt their lesson. On the other hand, I think this whole 'keep your heads down, don't attract attention' thing hasn't done Labor any favors: Tony Abbott has been giving them so many opportunities, and they are just not holding him to task as they should. That's why Palmer and Hansen Young have had such prominence and influence. Some of the shadow ministers are starting to make inroads now - such as the shadow minister this morning talking about the latest NBN report which is so obviously anything but independently researched - but Shorten seems a little scared to do anything: perhaps he is rightly concerned that he will come over as an aggressive and negative opposition which is what Tony Abbott did when he was in that position, and put people off. He needs to be seen as the sane one when the lunatics have taken over the asylum.

Would much prefer Chris Bowen as leader to Bill Shorten. Bill just comes across as someone with no get up and go and thats what Labor needs and I think that is why people are turning to Palmer. He may not be perfect but he is willing to stand up and have a go and he sticks to what he says.

[Parley]

People are turning off Palmer.

 

He is a laughing stock.

[Tina2]

To answer the original question as to how Abbott got in, well oviously people were sick of the infighting in Labor ranks, and tired of the never ending boat people, but me personally I would rather see a few boats arriving than have a government that treats it most vunerable citizens so badly.

[Diane]

People are turning off Palmer.

 

He is a laughing stock.

 

No, actually that description fits someone else far better! Palmer is doing a great job of getting news about him on the top of the agenda, when Tony is trying to get stuff about him! Yesterday morning all the news channels were covering Tony's "War Against Terrorism" and "We are a Government that Supports Science" speech, by the evening it was all about Palmer and his apology - result! Tony must hate him and really, Clive comes across as not really caring about that one jot!

[Parley]

Exactly. He is an egotist and a buffoon. (my opinion).

It is all about Clive.

[Diane]

Exactly. He is an egotist and a buffoon. (my opinion).

It is all about Clive.

 

So's Boris Johnson by all accounts - but I'd still vote for him!

[flag of convenience]

I agree.

 

I also think that compulsory voting is a bad thing: IMO it encourages a 'pin the tail on the donkey' approach to voting, too many people with little or no idea of what they're voting for are having a say in who runs the country.

 

I'm actually for but no longer by the margin I once was. Reason being all too many would not be inclined to exercise their democratic right, those often being the marginalised and the disaffected claiming with some justification that the system holds little hope for them. Of course such antics would give a clear run to a particular side of politics which may prove hard to remove and reflect policy accordingly.

 

Then those with dis interest or apathy not making the boxes we could easily end of with a ruling party in power with only a quarter of the vote. Hardly democracy in that sense. Is democracy even the best or only alternative when self interest and greed appear to be ever the driving forces? But then no accountability. Not an easy one.

[flag of convenience]

People are turning off Palmer.

 

He is a laughing stock.

 

He's a populist and as such, if and only if, he plays his cards right you can expect far greater support. The buffoons in power now or those in opposition are unlike to inspire the man in the street types. While the press will attempt to belittle him, just wait and see.

[flag of convenience]

That is so so true - the system as it is is so open to abuse by anyone who wanted to do so. I said at the time I could easily have voted in several places, under a false name, and even if found out, the false votes would never have been identified. I didn't, by the way, as life is just too short!!

 

Very strange system - even African countries with no technology seem to do it better with indelible ink marks on fingers.

 

Well the fairly recent Malaysian elections it was shown that the alleged indelible ink could indeed be removed. Not Africa I know but not exactly known as corrupt free.

[flag of convenience]

He promised to 'stop the boats' and he did.

 

He promised to end the carbon tax, and he did.

 

I'll forgive him the ones he reneged on. It's like a footie manager saying he will deliver the EPL and the Champions League but failing to win the League Cup.

 

Your too forgiving.

[Tina2]

Exactly. He is an egotist and a buffoon. (my opinion).

It is all about Clive.

Well I would prefer someone who comes across that way than what we have now. A man who has

 

destroyed the future for those who will no longer be able to afford higher education

 

Reduced single parents to the lowest possible financial level with zero regards as to how they got in that situation or the efforts made to get out of the situation

 

Destroyed any hope of a retirement for our elderly other than scrimping and scraping every week to make ends meet.

 

Want to have the most vunrable choose food on the table or the ability to see a doctor.

 

I am no longer a proud Australia, we have little in resourse but we are looking at "adopting a pensioner" something we read about a couple of weeks ago, where we give a pensioner a helping hand.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Tina2

[Harpodom]

I feel contempt for the way ALP is playing out opposition.

 

Their silence/complicity on important ethical matters such as the asylum seeker issue and now the issue of civil liberties and anti terror laws tells me they're $hit scared of missing out on the 'bogan dullard' vote. The ALP don't offer an alternative 'vision' of how to lead Australia IMO.

 

As for Shorten, I cannot recall a more 'beige' man in politics since the likes of John Major. Unlike Major though, who represented a moderate brand of conservatism, what exactly does Shorten represent?

 

 

 

I voted for the 'ALP lost it' option because there was so much infighting in that party that I think a lot of people thought ANYTHING would have to be better. Or they were taken in by the multitude of promises made by the Coalition before the election.

 

I think Labor are only just now beginning to sort of get their act together - there hasn't been any talk of internal fighting that I have heard - so perhaps they learnt their lesson. On the other hand, I think this whole 'keep your heads down, don't attract attention' thing hasn't done Labor any favors: Tony Abbott has been giving them so many opportunities, and they are just not holding him to task as they should. That's why Palmer and Hansen Young have had such prominence and influence. Some of the shadow ministers are starting to make inroads now - such as the shadow minister this morning talking about the latest NBN report which is so obviously anything but independently researched - but Shorten seems a little scared to do anything: perhaps he is rightly concerned that he will come over as an aggressive and negative opposition which is what Tony Abbott did when he was in that position, and put people off. He needs to be seen as the sane one when the lunatics have taken over the asylum.

[familybonesinoz]

I would suggest to all those denegrating Tony Abbott that you take a look at the last 20 years or so of the British financial and social journey into Government debt, muslim enclaves, benefit abuse and the number of people who go on about "my rights" without any idea as to the fact that the money has to come from somewhere.

 

Anybody who has the UK in the last 4 years, like I have, will have experienced the effects of Governments promising and writing cheques that they would never have to deliver on because they knew they would be voted out. Like it or not the last Labour Government spent (and promised even more) more than it should have. Everybody wants fairness from a system. But that includes those that are paying into the system.

Everyone wants to have enough money to live on. But some confuse this with enough to smoke 40 a day, drink beer as and when and dont forget the now seemingly obligatory 65" flat screen TV. Why should the people who work and pay into the pot have to cover these costs as well?

 

And before anybody gets excited I am not including those that are on a genuine tough road at the moment. Also those who are genuinely ill and of course those pensioners who have paid taxes all their life.

 

If this fantastic country does not control its spending NOW it will inevitably slide into the financial mud that has seen Western Europe sit on the continued edge of recession for so long.

 

And as for Abbott over turning the change in law that would have meant people being arrested for hurting someone feelings. Well this would have brought Australia, somewhat, into line the UK law. And that law has played a major role in allowing the abhorent sexual abuse of white girls by large gangs of Pakistani men. Their actions ignored by both police and social workers for fear of causing offence to the minority communities. Anyone who has not read the report published today in GB should go online and do so. It also allowed for the unfettered growth in radical islam. All because police were fearful of being called racists. All because of the law that Tony Abbott decided NOT to allow it to pass through Parliament.

 

I am not a member of any political party. I am not an apologist for Tony Abbott. I am not an Islamophobe. I am not a non caring individual.

 

I am a family man. I am a man who judges people by their actions and reactions and not their words. I am a man who chose to come to this incredible country because of what it is and what is stands for. I did not come here to see those 'lovey bleeding heart individuals' be allowed to lead Australia down the road to financial ruin, extremist jihadist tolerance and people making "living on benefits" a life style choice.

[Diane]

Well I would prefer someone who comes across that way than what we have now. A man who has

 

destroyed the future for those who will no longer be able to afford higher education

 

Reduced single parents to the lowest possible financial level with zero regards as to how they got in that situation or the efforts made to get out of the situation

 

Destroyed any hope of a retirement for our elderly other than scrimping and scraping every week to make ends meet.

 

Want to have the most vunrable choose food on the table or the ability to see a doctor.

 

I am no longer a proud Australia, we have little in resourse but we are looking at "adopting a pensioner" something we read about a couple of weeks ago, where we give a pensioner a helping hand.

 

Well said, and while there are people like you in this country, I will remain...

 

[Paul1Perth]

Would much prefer Chris Bowen as leader to Bill Shorten. Bill just comes across as someone with no get up and go and thats what Labor needs and I think that is why people are turning to Palmer. He may not be perfect but he is willing to stand up and have a go and he sticks to what he says.

 

Couldn't be any further from the truth. He had a go at the Chinese and stuck to what he said for a few days, until he realised that the Chinese companies that he deals with had got a bit upset and were threatening a boycott of him and any business interests he had. It would have hurt him in the hip pocket and suddenly he's apologising and withdrawing remarks. That would have really gone against the grain for him, having to apologise.

 

For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would vote for Palmer and anyone else in PUP.

[Diane]

And before anybody gets excited I am not including those that are on a genuine tough road at the moment. Also those who are genuinely ill and of course those pensioners who have paid taxes all their life.

 

Your whole argument (which sounds like it has been written by a Coalition speech writer) falls apart with this paragraph.

 

This government has done their best to make those you speak of here the ones who will suffer most from their policies, whilst continuing to rort the system themselves, and support those who make their money from selling the resources of this country overseas, employing overseas low paid workers to do so in many cases.

 

As has been said in many threads, there are an awful lot of ways to save money in this country, but Abbott and his party have looked at ways which will affect the poorest and most disadvantaged and gone for those rather than doing something that might offend their financial backers.

[familybonesinoz]

Your whole argument (which sounds like it has been written by a Coalition speech writer) falls apart with this paragraph.

 

Thank you Diane for the compliment. I am infact a scaffolder who went to grammar school. Maybe I missed my calling.

[familybonesinoz]

Diane

 

I am in complete and utter agreement with you on the fact that there are many other ways to control and cut spending. As I said I am not a member of any political party and am not defending this or any other Government.

 

The absurd idea of paying large amounts of money to high earning women and their spouses who choose to have children is bonkers. But so is the idea of paying large amounts of money to women and their spouses who do not work and cannot afford the children they already have. And no I am not supporting social engineering. But it is vitally important that we do not allow those that deliberately intend not to work to have this choice of lifestyle.

 

Equally the idea of continuing to import (probably) cheap labour into the country whilst qualified Australians are out of work is wrong on many levels. The, soon to be felt, consequences of this policy will be the same as can be seen in the UK. Ever falling wages, living standards and falling tax revenues. Which inevitably leads to even greater Government borrowing.

 

Whichever way you look at the problem, continuing to borrow ever increasing $billions will never solve the problem. And unfortunately history, both here and in the UK, shows that this is the path taken by successive Labour Governments. I once thought that this path was chosen out of a moral and social conscience. But now I fear that it is taken, by them, for political expediency and is all about winning the next election.

[Parley]

Very well said familybonesinoz.

It is great to hear your view having seen the British experience first hand.

[Paul1Perth]

So's Boris Johnson by all accounts - but I'd still vote for him!

 

If you were getting a bit upset about how Tony treats women don't look too hard into Boris's past then.

[Guest Guest66881]

Just let go people, just let go:laugh:

[Tina2]

Diane

 

I am in complete and utter agreement with you on the fact that there are many other ways to control and cut spending. As I said I am not a member of any political party and am not defending this or any other Government.

 

The absurd idea of paying large amounts of money to high earning women and their spouses who choose to have children is bonkers. But so is the idea of paying large amounts of money to women and their spouses who do not work and cannot afford the children they already have. And no I am not supporting social engineering. But it is vitally important that we do not allow those that deliberately intend not to work to have this choice of lifestyle.

 

Equally the idea of continuing to import (probably) cheap labour into the country whilst qualified Australians are out of work is wrong on many levels. The, soon to be felt, consequences of this policy will be the same as can be seen in the UK. Ever falling wages, living standards and falling tax revenues. Which inevitably leads to even greater Government borrowing.

 

Whichever way you look at the problem, continuing to borrow ever increasing $billions will never solve the problem. And unfortunately history, both here and in the UK, shows that this is the path taken by successive Labour Governments. I once thought that this path was chosen out of a moral and social conscience. But now I fear that it is taken, by them, for political expediency and is all about winning the next election.

You see this is what makes me so angry, there are other ways to cut the spending, all we ask is that it is fair. I could not agree more get those who have no interest in working "and are able to work" and by that I include single parents who have zero help to care for children out of school hours in to some form of work, but dont punish single parents when there is either no vacancies at child care or they cant afford child care, help with the cost of child care and extend the hours so the single mums can work.. Agree paying the rich to have a child is disgusting, in fact I would even go as far as to say in 9 months time there should be no welfare at all for any child born where the family already have 2 or more children. After 2 if you want more you take full responcibility for the cost of those children.

At the very least allow the cost of any course completed that is proven to provide the student with employment to be claimed as a tax deduction. This whole budget is about punishing the most vunerable rather than looking at what can be done to help them get a job and off welfare.

[Paul1Perth]

Diane

 

I am in complete and utter agreement with you on the fact that there are many other ways to control and cut spending. As I said I am not a member of any political party and am not defending this or any other Government.

 

The absurd idea of paying large amounts of money to high earning women and their spouses who choose to have children is bonkers. But so is the idea of paying large amounts of money to women and their spouses who do not work and cannot afford the children they already have. And no I am not supporting social engineering. But it is vitally important that we do not allow those that deliberately intend not to work to have this choice of lifestyle.

 

Equally the idea of continuing to import (probably) cheap labour into the country whilst qualified Australians are out of work is wrong on many levels. The, soon to be felt, consequences of this policy will be the same as can be seen in the UK. Ever falling wages, living standards and falling tax revenues. Which inevitably leads to even greater Government borrowing.

 

Whichever way you look at the problem, continuing to borrow ever increasing $billions will never solve the problem. And unfortunately history, both here and in the UK, shows that this is the path taken by successive Labour Governments. I once thought that this path was chosen out of a moral and social conscience. But now I fear that it is taken, by them, for political expediency and is all about winning the next election.

 

Don't just blame Labour Governments. We have had the Liberals in power in WA for a few years now and spending is out of control on a few major projects that we really could do without. Sure the new stadium will be nice and same with Elizabeth Quay, but we could have done without either. Governments, no matter what political persuasion, overspend sometimes. A government that's not bothered about being popular and is only interested in balancing budgets is one doomed for only one term in power. Maybe this one will be it.