Why does Immigration put more emphasis on age than experience and qualifications

[fletchaman]

For an English speaking Individual you would need to be 32 years old with at least 8 out of 10 years experience as a Doctor to slip into the immigration skilled independent, obviously that is impossible but as you start getting your experience you lose your age points, so an experienced Doctor aged 45 has less chance of getting a visa than a 32 year old minimum experienced Doctor, purely because he/she is older. So I do not understand why they have an age limit of 50 because as soon as you hit 40 its pretty pointless trying, unless you are willing to spend money on going back to the classroom to prove you know the mother tongue.

 

Is obtaining the actual points without having to obtain additional points actually doable?

[blossom]

They want you to do the English test. It's all about money making. Most people have to do it. It's just something you have to accept if you want to move. Of course there is state sponsorship too.

 

If being a dr is the same as being a nurse then you have to do the English test to pass the skills assessment.

[fletchaman]

They want you to do the English test. It's all about money making. Most people have to do it. It's just something you have to accept if you want to move. Of course there is state sponsorship too.

 

If being a dr is the same as being a nurse then you have to do the English test to pass the skills assessment.

 

We don't we live in New Zealand, so only do a modified assessment, it amazes me that you don't get anything for securing job, so basically it like yes we want you but immigration won't let us have you because you are over 40!!!! whats next checking if your fertile so you can bring new life to the country!!!

[Pumpkin]

For an English speaking Individual you would need to be 32 years old with at least 8 out of 10 years experience as a Doctor to slip into the immigration skilled independent, obviously that is impossible but as you start getting your experience you lose your age points, so an experienced Doctor aged 45 has less chance of getting a visa than a 32 year old minimum experienced Doctor, purely because he/she is older. So I do not understand why they have an age limit of 50 because as soon as you hit 40 its pretty pointless trying, unless you are willing to spend money on going back to the classroom to prove you know the mother tongue.

 

Is obtaining the actual points without having to obtain additional points actually doable?

 

Not really sure I understand the point you are making or the question to be honest. Are you aggrieved for the 32 year old or the 45 year old or something?

 

IELTS should be an absolute breeze for a doctor, so what if you have to pay GBP130, small change in migration terms and an absolute gift for the native English language speaker. I can get 65 points and I am over 40 (and not including any points to reflect I have been living in Australia). It is very hard after 45, but not impossible.

[fletchaman]

Not really sure I understand the point you are making or the question to be honest. Are you aggrieved for the 32 year old or the 45 year old or something?

 

IELTS should be an absolute breeze for a doctor, so what if you have to pay GBP130, small change in migration terms and an absolute gift for the native English language speaker. I can get 65 points and I am over 40 (and not including any points to reflect I have been living in Australia). It is very hard after 45, but not impossible.

 

I am using a Doctor as an example, and the point i am making is it is impossible a Doctor of 32 years of age (optimum immigration age category) to have the experience required to obtain 60+ points he/she would have to create additional points outside the basic criteria, making this criteria unworkable.

 

So you show me how you would get 65 points being over 40 without having to pay out additional over and above the 2 grand minimum already paid?

[Pumpkin]

I am using a Doctor as an example, and the point i am making is it is impossible a Doctor of 32 years of age (optimum immigration age category) to have the experience required to obtain 60+ points he/she would have to create additional points outside the basic criteria, making this criteria unworkable.

 

So you show me how you would get 65 points being over 40 without having to pay out additional over and above the 2 grand minimum already paid?

 

Of course a doctor age 32 can pass points test. Just take IELTS, as I said it is a gift and the cost is negligible compared to overall costs, if you want to be precious about it then it is up to you. Most people are sensible enough to recognise it as the golden opportunity to secure points that it is.

[fletchaman]

Of course a doctor age 32 can pass points test. Just take IELTS, as I said it is a gift and the cost is negligible compared to overall costs, if you want to be precious about it then it is up to you. Most people are sensible enough to recognise it as the golden opportunity to secure points that it is.

 

You are not getting my point the actual immigration points assessment will not allow you to obtain 60 points in any age group or qualification, because to obtain the experience you lose the age points, and people like yourself think that is OK because you can throw more money at it to achieve!!!

 

I am New Zealand Citizen so I am not as you say being precious about it, as I can flit across and work whenever I like. I am pointing out you guys from Blighty are being ripped off because the points test is un-achievable unless you incur additional cost. how is that fair

[scattley]

The main reason for an age effect is that with the average life expectancy as it is....you need to be working FT for around 30 years in Australia in order to "break even" with the amount of money you will be taking from the government in old age....so if you are older than that...I.e. Over 45 then you have to jump more hoops than if under 30.

 

although your example of a doctor is not one that illustrates your point as they are mostly sponsored initially on 457 visas and have to go through many additional hoops to qualify.

[fletchaman]

The main reason for an age effect is that with the average life expectancy as it is....you need to be working FT for around 30 years in Australia in order to "break even" with the amount of money you will be taking from the government in old age....so if you are older than that...I.e. Over 45 then you have to jump more hoops than if under 30.

 

although your example of a doctor is not one that illustrates your point as they are mostly sponsored initially on 457 visas and have to go through many additional hoops to qualify.

 

I was merely using a Doctor because a doctorate is the highest points award for qualification. but the point i am trying to make is, if you are optimum age with optimum qualifications you lose out on optimum experience, yet if you get optimum experience you lose out on optimum age, so you will never get 60 points for age, quals and experience you will always have to use another area to obtain skilled independent adding additional cost so its is a carrot you can never have, unless you buy additional reach to grab the carrot

[Pumpkin]

You are not getting my point the actual immigration points assessment will not allow you to obtain 60 points in any age group or qualification, because to obtain the experience you lose the age points, and people like yourself think that is OK because you can throw more money at it to achieve!!!

 

I am New Zealand Citizen so I am not as you say being precious about it, as I can flit across and work whenever I like. I am pointing out you guys from Blighty are being ripped off because the points test is un-achievable unless you incur additional cost. how is that fair

 

And you are not getting my point. It is an absolute gift, to be able to get 20 points for speaking in my mother tongue. The Australian government wants people to be able to speak English well and hence makes favourable concessions (via points) for those that can. To award points on basis of passport alone would be discriminatory, so we all have to do the test to get the points.

 

And as for money, well there is the visa fee, skills assessment, medicals, police checks. Then I had to book a flight, pay for a container, pay for two cats to come over and go into quarantine. Then guess what when I got here, I had to pay for a driving licence and book myself into a hotel for five weeks. It all costs money, an English test being a very minor part of it. But if people don't want to pay for it they don't have to.

[fletchaman]

And you are not getting my point. It is an absolute gift, to be able to get 20 points for speaking in my mother tongue. The Australian government wants people to be able to speak English well and hence makes favourable concessions (via points) for those that can. To award points on basis of passport alone would be discriminatory, so we all have to do the test to get the points.

 

And as for money, well there is the visa fee, skills assessment, medicals, police checks. Then I had to book a flight, pay for a container, pay for two cats to come over and go into quarantine. Then guess what when I got here, I had to pay for a driving licence and book myself into a hotel for five weeks. It all costs money, an English test being a very minor part of it. But if people don't want to pay for it they don't have to.

 

And write a letter, do an essay, read a book, you know all the things needed to be a competent member of a country and bring value to it!!!

 

And I suppose you also believe that the concessional points should be worth the same as 7 years of additional education to get the qualification, that the country is lacking in!!

I paid all the costs you did when I arrived down here but one thing I didn't have to do was pay to get additional points due to the immigration process not giving me the chance to obtain the required points whatever age I was.

 

My point is it is impossible to achieve the points so why have them, you should not have to get concession points. If the UK education system is level 6 and that education system is 6th best in the world, then why do you need to pay for concessional points?

[Pumpkin]

And write a letter, do an essay, read a book, you know all the things needed to be a competent member of a country and brings prosper to it!!! your later costs were all choice you could have sold your furniture got rid of your cats.

 

And I suppose you also believe that the concessional points should be worth the same as 7 years of additional education to get the qualification, that the country is lacking in!!

 

Why are you so angry? :err:

 

There are various attributes the Australian government is looking for in migrants: including ability to speak English, work experience, qualifications, age preferences. I think an extra seven years if experience is a bit pointless if the person cannot communicate in English. So there are points for all and the migrant makes them up as best they can. Native English speakers with any sense will be pleased to get points for English.

 

It was my choice to spend my money on every aspect of migration, including the English test, which made up £125 of the overall £30,000. There is really no need for you to be upset, I'm not. It was my choice, never said otherwise.

[fletchaman]

Why are you so angry? :err:

 

There are various attributes the Australian government is looking for in migrants: including ability to speak English, work experience, qualifications, age preferences. I think an extra seven years if experience is a bit pointless if the person cannot communicate in English. So there are points for all and the migrant makes them up as best they can. Native English speakers with any sense will be pleased to get points for English.

 

It was my choice to spend my money on every aspect of migration, including the English test, which made up £125 of the overall £30,000. There is really no need for you to be upset, I'm not. It was my choice, never said otherwise.

 

why do i have to be angry to have an opinion?

 

Its not a point of being able to communicate, level 6 gives you the ability to communicate otherwise the British education system is doomed!!, so i do not know where you are going with that argument. Look what i am trying to say is the a points system has been set up and putting in any achievable set of figures it is impossible to pass, would you be happy if you ordered a car that you then discover you could never have unless you pay additional monies. From what i can see the maximum points you can ever obtain in reality is 55. 60 does not exist

[Petals]

By making everyone sit the English test its fair so if you speak English you have an advantage. Australia does not want people who cannot speak English anymore as migrants. There are enough already here some from the fifties who still do not have a good command of English and it makes life very difficult for their families and services etc. So if they can rectify this then the country will it saves money on educating people who come here to speak the language.

 

Also age is important as they want migrants that are going to stay for the long haul and build up their pension fund, if they come older they are less likely to build up their pension fund and will fall on the state pension which is not a lot of dosh.

 

So it might seem unfair but if I wanted to come and I was 45 and a doctor I would be able to do afford to do the tests and if I had special skills which are required no doubt I would get a very good well paying job.

[fletchaman]

By making everyone sit the English test its fair so if you speak English you have an advantage. Australia does not want people who cannot speak English anymore as migrants. There are enough already here some from the fifties who still do not have a good command of English and it makes life very difficult for their families and services etc. So if they can rectify this then the country will it saves money on educating people who come here to speak the language.

 

Also age is important as they want migrants that are going to stay for the long haul and build up their pension fund, if they come older they are less likely to build up their pension fund and will fall on the state pension which is not a lot of dosh.

 

So it might seem unfair but if I wanted to come and I was 45 and a doctor I would be able to do afford to do the tests and if I had special skills which are required no doubt I would get a very good well paying job.

 

Petal I understand that everyone should be level 6 English I do not argue that point. My argument is that even if you are level 6 English which is generally effective command of the language despite some inaccuracies, inappropriacies and misunderstandings. Can use and understand fairly complex language, particularly in familiar situations ( this is what you get for coming from the mother land and the 6th best education system in the world) my argument is that you cannot get more than 55 points and are required to pay to get even better at English to ever reach 60

[blossom]

We don't we live in New Zealand, so only do a modified assessment, it amazes me that you don't get anything for securing job, so basically it like yes we want you but immigration won't let us have you because you are over 40!!!! whats next checking if your fertile so you can bring new life to the country!!!

If you secure a job then you can get a sponsored visa not requiring any points at all. I didn't need to do the English test when my employer sponsored me for a perminant visa.

[fletchaman]

If you secure a job then you can get a sponsored visa not requiring any points at all. I didn't need to do the English test when my employer sponsored me for a perminant visa.

 

Yes Blossom that is a route but it still does not stop the fact that you cannot get 60 points on skilled independent so it is just a scam to get more money from you but apparently people are willing to pay it rather than get sponsored which amazes me!!

[Mxmanus]

Yes Blossom that is a route but it still does not stop the fact that you cannot get 60 points on skilled independent so it is just a scam to get more money from you but apparently people are willing to pay it rather than get sponsored which amazes me!!

 

It doesn't matter if it's a scam or not. It's the rules. If you want to play you have to follow the rules. So I can't see the point of the argument!! As we all know in life lots of things aren't fair but we have to abide by them.

When I was told I had to do the IELTS for my visa I saw it as part of the process and as has been mentioned before it's right that migrants have a good level of English. If you've secured a skilled visa you will probably be in a job where you need good communication skills to pass on your skills.

[The Fisheys]

It doesn't matter if it's a scam or not. It's the rules. If you want to play you have to follow the rules. So I can't see the point of the argument!! As we all know in life lots of things aren't fair but we have to abide by them.

When I was told I had to do the IELTS for my visa I saw it as part of the process and as has been mentioned before it's right that migrants have a good level of English. If you've secured a skilled visa you will probably be in a job where you need good communication skills to pass on your skills.

 

They used to imprison homosexuals, or hang you for robbing a loaf of bread etc., etc., etc., so it is absolutely right to complain about these "rules."

And if things aren't fair, then please complain long, and loud, that is the point of living in a democracy isn't it? Equal pay for women, universal suffrage, abolition of slavery, just a few to come to mind where unfair laws were changed.

i grant you they are all a bit more serious than this English test, but it is ridiculous.

[Mxmanus]

Complain all you like. If that's the rules that's the rules. If you don't follow them you won't get in. And as for it being a money making scam. It's not really. The paltry £130 it costs to do the test goes to the establishment that carry the test out. Not immigration. It's the same as say a carpenter saying he can do his job and has a bit of paper that says that. But he/ she still has to pass a practical skills test to get a visa. So taking the IELTs is a way if proving a level of English and quite frankly when you walk along the streets of the UK and listen to people taking I haven't half a clue what they are saying with all the street slang etc they use these days.

[Pumpkin]

i grant you they are all a bit more serious than this English test, but it is ridiculous.

 

I don't see anything ridiculous about it. Australia wants migrants to speak the national language and the better somebody speaks it the more they are rewarded in terms of points. I think to draw a parallel on any level with slavery, suffrage and equal pay is rather daft myself.

[blossom]

I don't see anything ridiculous about it. Australia wants migrants to speak the national language and the better somebody speaks it the more they are rewarded in terms of points. I think to draw a parallel on any level with slavery, suffrage and equal pay is rather daft myself.

Totally agree.

[Quinkla]

Have you ever been to a doctor who doesn't speak your language? It's a frustrating experience that can be both expensive and dangerous. That's why Australia has no interest in importing doctors who cannot demonstrate their proficiency in English. Just the same as they have no interest in importing chocolate teapots.

 

As for why Australia wants younger migrants - it is simply because they are likely to get more productive, tax-paying years out of them before they start to consume tax-funded services in older age.

[MaggieMay24]

I'm not sure I understand your issue. To qualify, you need to get 60+ points in a combination of age, qualifications, experience and English. That applies to everyone. The fact that you happen to come from an English speaking country gives you an easier time to get the English points. Do you think you should have a lower points threshold simply because you're from a country with English as a mother tongue?

 

And I've read more than a few posts from applicants who didn't need to sit the IELTS to get enough points to apply, so it's definitely possible.

[benthomas010]

Yes Blossom that is a route but it still does not stop the fact that you cannot get 60 points on skilled independent so it is just a scam to get more money from you but apparently people are willing to pay it rather than get sponsored which amazes me!!

Lol.

 

Yes I would rather pay £140 to sit IELTS, and gain 20 bonus points than come on a sponsored visa.

 

A sponsored visa would leave me firstly not having permanent residency. And secondly having to pay for my daughters schooling at a damn site (sight?) more than £140.

 

its fairly easy. Surely a doctor needs to do it as part of their skills assessment anyway?

 

Having a British passport is meaningless. My daughter has one. She also has an Indonesian one. In theory she could live her entire life holding a British passport yet never live in the country or speak the language. (that isn't the case. . But it could be).

 

Also - I know English people who's English is appalling. Certainly not good enough to survive in a professional environment.

 

I cannot get 60 points without using IELTS to secure an additional 20 points (putting me on 65) because I don't have sufficient post qualification experience. To he honest. .. even if I did have the experience, it's easier to sit the English exam than it is to go through the hassle of having the experience verified.