akiralx Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I know a guy who had lots of debt in the UK and thought it would be a good idea to knock it all and move to OZ. He took it too such an extent that he ended up getting more finance on things like sofas etc and selling the products on to friends and family. He did think he was very clever and at the time i will admit to thinking its a good idea. He ended up leaving about £75k. So fast forward 18 months and he is back in the UK and completely screwed as his wife could not settle. He is now declaring himself bankrupt and was lucky not to get done for Fraud. Yes, that is clearly obtaining money by deception, and he is very fortunate not to be charged or convicted. He was very foolish. But I think we are discussing defaulting on a legally accrued credit card debt or outstanding loan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noworriesmate Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) Not just 'someone else' - the other party with whom you are in a financial transaction. And not merely 'badly' - illegally in most cases (e.g. the LIBOR scandal). Defaulting on a loan is certainly not illegal - or even dishonest if one is under financial pressure. So what exactly did your bank do to you that was dishonest? did they lend you what they said they would lend you? did they breach any agreement they had with you? Defaulting on a loan is not illegal as long as it wasn't taken out fraudulently however I would dispute your statement regarding it not being dishonest if you are under financial pressure. My question would be, who decides whether you are under financial pressure? If it is the person who took out the loan then that sounds a bit arbitrary or biased to me. If it is done in negotiation with the lender then I would accept that being reasonable but just to decide that you can't afford it and to rely on the fact that you will be out of the country to cover you does not strike me as honest. NWM p.s. before people judge me as having a holier than thou attitude, I would guess that the debt I was left with after the GFC and which I will be trying to clear for some years to come would probably be more than most. I have just chosen to be part of the solution and not the problem! Edited June 17, 2014 by noworriesmate spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I remember a thread of about a year ago where the poster was enquiring about moving to Australia and leaving his debt behind him so he could 'start again'. There were the 2 camps the encouragers and the discouragers. Eventually he abandoned his post due the criticism, and that guy was not only planning to move to Australia (an expensive exercize), but he had also funded an extensive reccie trip to Australia already for his family of 5. I suspect too that people who do run away from their debt, and don't go through the hard yards of paying it off, will just get themselves in the same situation in Australia in a year or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tappers2oz Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I remember a thread of about a year ago where the poster was enquiring about moving to Australia and leaving his debt behind him so he could 'start again'. There were the 2 camps the encouragers and the discouragers. Eventually he abandoned his post due the criticism, and that guy was not only planning to move to Australia (an expensive exercize), but he had also funded an extensive reccie trip to Australia already for his family of 5. I suspect too that people who do run away from their debt, and don't go through the hard yards of paying it off, will just get themselves in the same situation in Australia in a year or so. I agree. We are working hard to pay off our DMP and when we move continue to do so. (We got into debt with be being off work with pregnancy related problems and general bad luck). It's taught us to be careful with money and I never want a credit card again. If people don't work to pay off their debts (I.e leave it behind or someone pays it off for them) then they will find themselves in the same position again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGHJLL Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 We had debts before we left UK. Had loads of bad luck with bad debtors to hubby's company and some bad mortgage advice etc. Short story is we set up a DMP with 'stepchange' and moved over here with about £1000 in our pockets (family of five). We send money back to our UK bank account each month to cover it, (despite being advised by citizens advice to wander off into the sunset and forget about it - shocking). We found jobs immediately - carpentry and admin - Melbourne area, and got a rental sorted. Been very lucky so far. Been able to afford two cars too. Been here for nine months and so glad we didn't listen to all the negativity when I was asking for advice on here and people saying about excessive amounts of money needed to move with. Determination, versatility and a positive attitude helped us immensely. Best of luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 What is DMP ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerxes Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 .......I agree PC................it was more the fact that ...' Money lending'......has become big business..... ........credit cards a way of life... ........I don't have one......and find being able to buy something's difficult.... ........and it's this.....I have issues with...... .........to be caught in the web of finance.....increasing interest rates..... .........on an amount that initially was manageable.... .........can all to easy become financially crippling.......... .........though.....needs....and wants......need identifying,,,,,,,IMO....tink x .......but to the OP.......... ........I hope you find your answer and commend you on your sense of fair play........ Thanks! To be honest the debt I have is from years before we even thought about emigrating to Oz. I just accepted the fact that I would be paying it off until I got a windfall or inheritance to clear it! It's not even a very large amount but that's my business! I just didn't know if you had to clear your debts before emigrating or could carry on paying them from abroad or transfer them to an Oz credit card. I'm really glad and grateful to have had so much advice from everyone and opened up quite a lively debate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerxes Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 We had debts before we left UK. Had loads of bad luck with bad debtors to hubby's company and some bad mortgage advice etc. Short story is we set up a DMP with 'stepchange' and moved over here with about £1000 in our pockets (family of five). We send money back to our UK bank account each month to cover it, (despite being advised by citizens advice to wander off into the sunset and forget about it - shocking). We found jobs immediately - carpentry and admin - Melbourne area, and got a rental sorted. Been very lucky so far. Been able to afford two cars too. Been here for nine months and so glad we didn't listen to all the negativity when I was asking for advice on here and people saying about excessive amounts of money needed to move with. Determination, versatility and a positive attitude helped us immensely. Best of luck It's good to hear that you don't necessarily need a shed load of money to do it. We need a big chunk of cash to ship our 3 cats and 2 dogs over. We were going to leave them behind cus it will cost so much, but we can't do it! Otherwise I reckon we wouldn't need that much money. We have friends who love in Brisbane who we are hoping will let us stay there when we first arrive, and we are hoping for me to get a job before we go, so it's only paying for flights really. We aren't taking any furniture, only the bare essentials! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Just get a loan before yer go Xerxes.................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tappers2oz Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 What is DMP ? Debt management plan. Bit like an iva but without the court stuff. Creditors usually agree to stop interest so you literally pay what's left owing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiralx Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 So what exactly did your bank do to you that was dishonest? Not me personally, but charging a higher than correct rate of interest owing to criminally manipulating the LIBOR. Barclays was fined over $400m, for example. Criminal charges are pending against UBS employees and others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noworriesmate Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Not me personally, but charging a higher than correct rate of interest owing to criminally manipulating the LIBOR. Barclays was fined over $400m, for example. Criminal charges are pending against UBS employees and others. But that's like saying that because someone got caught for speeding my agreement with them should be void. If they are proven to have acted illegally in their transactions over any loans that people have taken out with them then the those people will receive compensation as per the ppi mis-selling scandal. It does not mean that peoples liabilities to those banks are now null and void. NWM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Yes it is just an excuse for some people who would like to get out of repaying money that was lent to them. I'm sure most would realise it is a ridiculous argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geraldine Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 If you want to have one over on the banks....take a credit card out use it each month and pay it off. I must be one of their worst customers....I get all the benefits of interest free money and protection of my purchases and they don't get a bean of interest off me. Oh and I've got enough points to stay over at a very nice hotel for free. If the banks annoy you Pabs, play them at their own game. Not paying what you have borrowed is not the Liverpool way. The provvy man would be out of business if it was ( don't get me started on loans with massive APRs though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiralx Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Yes it is just an excuse for some people who would like to get out of repaying money that was lent to them.I'm sure most would realise it is a ridiculous argument. But surely the banks' behaviour which was illegal is worse than a client not repaying a debt (which isn't)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 You know the truth so it is pointless going around in circles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith and Linda Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 But surely the banks' behaviour which was illegal is worse than a client not repaying a debt (which isn't)... Comes down to intent as well, you still need to be responsible for your actions and consequences of such. If Barclays got fined for acting illegally then we can all expect the same if we act illegally. You cannot use someone else's wrong behavior as a reason for you to act wrongly, especially so if that is your intent, which to me, would make you worse than the banks and appear very childish to boot too!. But I am with Geraldine on this, I have got about $800 at present in my awards all ready to go towards an airfare to the UK, plus, I have in the past just cashed $100's in, thus reducing my credit card account on a regular basis. I get free international travel insurance too and not a cent in interest or fees, I'm quids in, all thanks to working the system, the banks that is - not mine! Honesty the best policy, never have to keep looking over your shoulder then either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 As I said, this is merely an observation but even if they have an address for you, once you have left the UK, any consumer debt (as in not Inland Revenue or Government, but credit card, mortgage, loan) can not be enforced. Of course, you have to remain gone for about 7 to 10 years to ensure that it's wiped clean, but once you've moved, it's gone. They can't even go and get a CCJ against you as you are not a UK resident. They can write to you but even that is something that is dodgy for them because of the Australian harassment laws. There's a lot of evidence out there and if you want the web address of a respected UK consumer group that has dealt with hundreds of cases where "debt fugitives" have gone to Australia, please PM me and I'm more than happy to help you out (confidentially). Oh and the 7-10 year thing doesn't include not coming back for holidays, just means that you shouldn't apply for UK credit in that time or they will find you of course. Customs aren't at the airports and ports with lists of bad debtors ready to phone the debt collection agency. So, in theory, you could spend a year maxing out on credit cards, then buy lots of stuff and fill up a container, then never come back, and there is nothing they can do. I would have thought this was fraud though, so you would have to be careful coming back for holidays. Could they extradite you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Just curious, I'm pure as the driven snow me (:cute:) but has anyone left debt in Australia and returned to the UK? Don't have debt, but am interested to hear if the rules are the same etc. Cheers! Yes and yes. It was a disagreement with a rental agency. They stopped writing after about five years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MovingtoTasmania Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 So, in theory, you could spend a year maxing out on credit cards, then buy lots of stuff and fill up a container, then never come back, and there is nothing they can do. I would have thought this was fraud though, so you would have to be careful coming back for holidays. Could they extradite you? No I don't think you can do that. My understanding is that it's debt accrued before you considered migrating. Of course, maxing out credit cards and getting loans out after you know you are leaving the country would be fraud. I would like to add that I don't condone this behaviour as clearly, running away is not a good idea but I can see from both sides and can understand that people get themselves in to situations where they feel a bit hopeless and can't see a way out. I do agree with a previous poster who made a good point; if you can't control your spending in one country, then the cycle will simply be repeated when you move. However, I know of people who, through no fault of their own, have got into debt and can't afford to pay it off and have "done one" to another country, started again and not gotten in to debt. It's a hot potato as a topic but I don't think we should judge people as we don't know their circumstances. The person I know of, is someone whose ex husband had left her in debt and run off with another woman. The debt was in joint names, he was in another country, she was left to deal with it, it was over £30,000, she admittedly was stupid as when he was getting out loans etc., she was signing the forms as he spun her some line and eventually, it got too much for her, she became very depressed, lost her job, the debts kept mounting up due to interest and she couldn't pay them off as she had no money and she left the country and moved elsewhere and is now, thankfully, less stressed and settled. Was she wrong? Well, morally yes but her mental health had to come first and I do think she did the right thing for her at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Would all the holier than thou still hold the same line if we were talking pay day loans rather than credit cards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerxes Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 Just get a loan before yer go Xerxes.................. What do you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerxes Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 Would all the holier than thou still hold the same line if we were talking pay day loans rather than credit cards? I imagine that most people who are emigrating are going as skilled migrants so are probably earning a decent enough salary, so I doubt many would have those kinds of debts. I think you have to be in a real hole financially to go near those companies so more than likely wouldn't be in a position to emigrate. I don't know though and apologise if anyone has got them and is offended! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MovingtoTasmania Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Would all the holier than thou still hold the same line if we were talking pay day loans rather than credit cards? I don't know anything about pay day loans other than that they are advertised on the TV, same as credit cards, so i don't know why the attitude would change? Obviously there is something I don't know about these type of loans if there is a feeling that it would be okay to default on that type of debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerxes Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 I think it's the fact that they charge massive amounts interest so you really only use them as a last resort before bankruptcy. I think if you were at that point you would probably be deeply in the doo-doo and not have any option but to leave them behind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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