Winstonsmith Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Hello everybody, I'm currently on my 457 Visa with a 2 year date (with the same employer) of January 2014 before I can apply for the 186 Transitional Stream for permanent residency, which is something I would really like to achieve seeing how far I've made it. My boss has said he would help me with sponsorship with the implied condition that I continue to work for them. Unfortunately that 13 month target seems an impossible goal, let alone the time it takes to apply etc. This is due to the fact that I'm incredibly miserable at work and therefore also in general. In my 12 year working life, I've never worked with such horrid people and worst part is an absolutely intolerable boss. The same boss who will decide on whether the company sponsor me for PR. This is all a new experience for me and It's giving me serious doubts about whether putting up with it for PR is worth it. However I feel as if I would be an idiot to give up the chance to get PR, even if I should not use it in the future. This situation is making me seriously consider whether I have a future in Australia at all. I know that my work life is the biggest factor in my dissatisfaction with my happiness here, but I can't help but fear that 'suffering' through the next 12months+ the application time is worth the end result. My questions to anybody who can possibly offer any advice on the situation are as follows: Assuming I submit my application ASAP roughly how long would it take for the visa to be granted? If I were to be granted PR and then quit my job, would my manager have any power to cause problems for me? Is this unhappiness and uncertainty worth it for the PR that I may not even use, considering my plan after getting PR would be to travel before trying a return to the after being away for over 5 years? Sorry to be so vague everybody, I know there are many out there who have similar feelings and that only I can make these decisions, but I really would appreciate any input, advice or to hear peoples experiences who have been in the same situation etc. Happy Christmas everybody and thanks in advance, Stan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnaBB Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Hi Stan, totally sympathise with your situation. My question would be how certain are you that the employer/your boss will honour their current stated intention to sponsor you at the end of 2 years and not find some reason not to when the time comes. Is there any way of finding out if they have a record of doing so in the past? The last thing you would want is to put up with the situation for 2 years to be let down at the end of the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peccavi Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 A large part of the problem I suspect is that you know full well that this man controls your destiny. For the life of me I will never understand how we as a human race allowed ourselves to be treated so badly by corporates who market us to death and deliver so little, and by this kind of system which is in effect legal human trafficking. It is a totally exploitative system. I think btw that you mean you have to get to January 2015. If you are so unhappy I would frankly pull the plug. The reason you are continuing is based on a tenuous statement made by an unpleasant man. You are holding on in the hope of a legal situation that will allow you to stay and work in Australia. You seriously need to weigh up if it is what you really want. I had little affection to be blunt with the calibre of most people I met-but one lovely person assisted me in coming home. I am quite sure that person was not the only decent one in Australia!!! What I'm trying to say is that if you do not feel an affinity with those you work with, are you going to feel that in general? I did. IF there is a chance of that, then the pursuance of an end goal might not be worth the angst? I know it is easy for me to say, but for me personally (OK lads and lassies? the disclaimer), I wasted at least 30 years of my life being where I did not want to be. Work out if it's worth it. If you believe it is; grin and bear it. If not? start packing. Don't destroy your health on the hope that things may improve; particularly when that is something someone else currently controls. (Which reminds me: I must ring Bloody Terrible. Known to most as BT). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 If you do not want to stay with the employer, you really should not be contemplating an employer sponsored PR visa with that employer. And yes, if you did get the PR and promptly leave then the employer could cause trouble with immigration if they so desired. It would be arguable that you committed visa fraud as you are supposed to commit to the sponsoring employer. Of course it is only one month to January 2014 but I will assume you mean 2015 like the previous poster. It is a long time to be miserable and there is no guarantee that the employer will even agree to sponsor you anyway is there? Maybe they won't or can't for whatever reason. So no, all things considered I would not pursue this option in your shoes. If you want PR, then look for another visa like skilled migration. But if you are not sure about Australia, why bother even doing that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 I would look for another sponsor - staying with this one for the chance they might sponsor you permanently is just not worth it. Have you done a skills assessment? You may even be able to find a sponsor willing to sponsor you permanently from the get go but if not you aren't really any worse off. Another employer would enable you to see the woods from the trees, at the moment your experience of Australia is being coloured by your experience at work. It may be Australian work culture just doesn't sit comfortably with you in which case leaving before PR will be no loss but you won't know that until you have experience with another employer. On the otherhand it may be a completely positive experience elsewhere and you will see Australia in a new light. If you were to stay with this employer and they did sponsor you, it would not be in anyway illegal to then move. The employer has to commit to two years but not the employee (as far as I know). Rupert may know better but as someone who sponsored employees that was my understanding. A chat with a migration agent would clarify - you could even ask the Dept. of Immigration but I'd be inclined not to. If you can't find another employer I'd cut your losses and leave Australia - it doesn't sound like you are particularly committed to it and there is a whole world out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 One of the most sought after answers by Employer Nomination Scheme (ENS Subclass 186 visa) applicants is whether a person needs to stay with his/her sponsoring employer for 2 years after the approval of the visa. Even recruitment services that sponsor employees for permanent residency under ENS also want to know if they need to retain a nominated person in his/her approved position for 2 years. According to migration law, while presenting your application, you need to acknowledge that: “You accept to work in the selected position for at least 2 years” For starters, you need to understand that providing misleading information either willingly or otherwise may lead to the rejection of your visa application. You also risk being subjected to a three year visa ban (under public interest criteria PIC 4020) and this concerns you the applicant, any of your family members incorporated in the application or any third parties acting on your behalf. In short, once you lodge your visa application, you must be ready to work for your sponsoring employer in the selected role for the stipulated minimum period of two years. In case your commitment to work for 2 years changes during processing you should either inform DIAC and withdraw your application or not lodge the application (depending on your situation). Upon obtaining a permanent visa residency When you become a permanent Australian resident, the situation changes a bit. As long as you did not lie or provide fraudulent information while making your application to DIAC you do not have to worry about your permanent residency getting cancelled if you leave your employer. Even if DIAC gets informed about your employment cessation, they will not move to cancel your permanent residency visa (ENS). The only way they can do that is if they have clear proof of fraud in relation to your Australia visa application. You must bear in mind that signing an employment contract is also a common law contract, so be wary of any commitments and obligations in this contract. The required Employer Commitment DIAC requires your employer to declare that: They will provide full-time employment to the selected role for the visa applicant for at least two years. Any visa awarded may be rejected if the employee does not start work in six months' time or fails to continue working in the nominated role for the stipulated 2 year minimum period. It is important to note that after the initial 2 year period expires, there is nothing in the employment contract that prevents the continuation of the employment. Your employer is also allowed to change their intentions once your visa gets approved. That is, they can change your role or even terminate your employment. And unless there is proof of fraud, DIAC will not charge your employer for making you redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonsmith Posted December 21, 2013 Author Share Posted December 21, 2013 Thank you for your replies people. Sorry I did mean to say January 2014. I have called DIAC and the gentlemen advised me that should I be granted the PR there would be no legal reason why I couldn't quit straight away however I would have to check the conditions mentioned on my employment contract. What worries me is if prior to applying for PR, my boss tries to renegotiate my contract based on a 2 year period or something like that, which will then leave me with no choice but resign and leave the country. Unfortunately I do not meet the skill requirements for the 186 Visa so my only option for PR is the transition stream. It is also 'incredibly' unlikely I would be able to find another sponsor due to the specific nature of my job. Peccavi you're the second person whom I've discussed this with that stated their time here was 'wasted' in one way or another, which is something that troubles me. I currently feel like Australia is not the place I want to raise my children, buy a house or die but then I believe my judgement is clouded by my current work life. In support of sticking it out, I have fear of an unsuccessful return to the UK after being away for 5 years i.e. no job opportunities, trouble re-adjusting to the crap weather etc etc. I also can't stop thinking 'I'd be stupid to give up the chance of PR'. I'm not sure if this is the Australian Utopia belief of some people affecting my decision or just general nervousness of failing in the UK, but those age old questions about job opportunities, weather and so on are constantly in my mind. Thanks again for your time people, it is much appreciated. Stan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Thank you for your replies people. Sorry I did mean to say January 2014. I have called DIAC and the gentlemen advised me that should I be granted the PR there would be no legal reason why I couldn't quit straight away however I would have to check the conditions mentioned on my employment contract. What worries me is if prior to applying for PR, my boss tries to renegotiate my contract based on a 2 year period or something like that, which will then leave me with no choice but resign and leave the country. Unfortunately I do not meet the skill requirements for the 186 Visa so my only option for PR is the transition stream. It is also 'incredibly' unlikely I would be able to find another sponsor due to the specific nature of my job. Peccavi you're the second person whom I've discussed this with that stated their time here was 'wasted' in one way or another, which is something that troubles me. I currently feel like Australia is not the place I want to raise my children, buy a house or die but then I believe my judgement is clouded by my current work life. In support of sticking it out, I have fear of an unsuccessful return to the UK after being away for 5 years i.e. no job opportunities, trouble re-adjusting to the crap weather etc etc. I also can't stop thinking 'I'd be stupid to give up the chance of PR'. I'm not sure if this is the Australian Utopia belief of some people affecting my decision or just general nervousness of failing in the UK, but those age old questions about job opportunities, weather and so on are constantly in my mind. Thanks again for your time people, it is much appreciated. Stan Please do not take advice from anyone in DIAC, they are not there to provide advice and often don't know the facts about visas. I still cannot advocate going for employer sponsored PR and then leaving. It definitely used to be the case that you had to make a commitment around intent to stay, it might have changed though of course. The commitment was not enforceable but leaving too quickly would leave the individual open to suggestions of being untruthful on the visa application. The other reason I would not advocate this, is because Australia uses to a very great extent formal and informal employee references. If your employer is annoyed at your behaviour and indeed I think that met people would understand if they did, then you do yourself no favours on this front. As to whether you bother going for PR at all, well firstly you do know that it isn't really permanent don't you? If you go back to the UK for a number of years and don't use it, then you can effectively lose it as you can't get back into the country. I really think that it is only worth pursuing if you will stay long enough to at least get citizenship or if you do want to stay. On the other hand, the current work situation could very well be clouding your view. I lived overseas previously and did not enjoy it and there was no doubt whatsoever that it was because of a horrid employment situation. I left after two years and never looked back and don't think I would even want to go back to visit that country! I certainly never regret leaving, even though I know it was work that was the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonsmith Posted December 21, 2013 Author Share Posted December 21, 2013 I'll try again it's January 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonsmith Posted December 22, 2013 Author Share Posted December 22, 2013 Further can anybody possibly shed some light on how long it would take to process an application? Are we talking weeks as with the 457 or does PR take considerably longer? This interests me as obviously I'd have to still be working through this period and I'm unable to find any answers on other PIO threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Further can anybody possibly shed some light on how long it would take to process an application? Are we talking weeks as with the 457 or does PR take considerably longer? This interests me as obviously I'd have to still be working through this period and I'm unable to find any answers on other PIO threads. It would take several months as you need medicals and things. From start to finish I think mine took about 6 months. You need to be aware as well that most employers will require you to sign to say you will either stay with them for a couple of years from the grant or repay the costs (several thousand). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footballnotsoccer Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Hi Winston, have you looked into State sponsorsip for your perm.res.?? We went down the State route and all was O.K.....but 2015 is a long way off..!! Could you find another employer to take on your sponsorship..? Best regards, FNS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonsmith Posted December 22, 2013 Author Share Posted December 22, 2013 Thanks for that Verystormy. Was it six months from submitting the paperwork? Were there any delays with your application or was it straight forward and the 6months was sheer processing time? The cost for my employer under the transition scheme is only $540. My application is the pricey part at $3520. In all honestly FNS, I think it would be highly unlikely that I would be able to find somebody due to the vague nature of my work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 It was 6 months including all the time for sourcing paperwork, waiting for meds etc. There were no delays and that was working for a big multinational company. The cost to the company was about $7k including agent fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabelt28 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Further can anybody possibly shed some light on how long it would take to process an application? Are we talking weeks as with the 457 or does PR take considerably longer? This interests me as obviously I'd have to still be working through this period and I'm unable to find any answers on other PIO threads. Hi Stan, I understand your situation, I've been in exactly the same position. I was granted my visa on Friday (20 December) the process started in June for me. It has cost us (me, partner & stepson) $10000 including all visa fees, medicals & police checks. The process is long and really hard if you're not enjoying your work, however the sense of happiness & relief my family & I felt when we were granted our PR last Friday was an amazing feeling and it definitely felt worthwhile. Hope that helps. If you would like to chat more, feel free to PM me. cheers isabel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Further can anybody possibly shed some light on how long it would take to process an application? Are we talking weeks as with the 457 or does PR take considerably longer? This interests me as obviously I'd have to still be working through this period and I'm unable to find any answers on other PIO threads. It is about six months at the moment, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourcorners Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 I have been with my employer for over 2 years now but we have decided against going for PR. A couple of factors come into play for us. We do intend to leave Australia at some point in 2014. I am on my second 457 visa and my partner is on his 3rd. If we did ever want to return, it would only be in a 'boom' time in our sphere of work and therefore we think it would still be relatively easy to get another temporary work visa. We have investment properties in the UK and as a temporary worker here we currently don't have to declare this income on our Australian tax return. And lastly we want to be able to extract our superannuation when we do leave. The only positives we would gain from getting PR is maternity pay when I go on maternity leave next year, dual residency status for our child, and the ability to return within the specified time frame (is that about 5 years?). For us, these possible benefits do not outweigh the benefits of not getting PR as outlined above. Maternity pay is worth bugger all, and our child can work for their own visa if they want to come and live here (just like we worked for it). Sounds like you need to figure out a similar pros vs cons list. Also think about what you do like about Australia outside of work. Is it enough to make you want to live here permanently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasepom Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 stick it out if you can don't worry about the future too much just enjoy the present. It takes many migrants a good while to settle here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicolac34 Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 If you're not even sure you want PR then I wouldn't do it. I've stayed with a Company I don't like for much longer than I ever would thanks to visa conditions and it can make you so miserable (as I'm sure you know) and cloud every judgement. Thankfully I can see light at the end of the tunnel now (4 months to go....) but if I was looking at 13 months before I could start the application, another 6 months waiting for the application and then another potential 2 years - that's over three and a half years of being miserable for something you don't even know if you want! No way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest66881 Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 I have been with my employer for over 2 years now but we have decided against going for PR. A couple of factors come into play for us. We do intend to leave Australia at some point in 2014. I am on my second 457 visa and my partner is on his 3rd. If we did ever want to return, it would only be in a 'boom' time in our sphere of work and therefore we think it would still be relatively easy to get another temporary work visa. We have investment properties in the UK and as a temporary worker here we currently don't have to declare this income on our Australian tax return. And lastly we want to be able to extract our superannuation when we do leave. The only positives we would gain from getting PR is maternity pay when I go on maternity leave next year, dual residency status for our child, and the ability to return within the specified time frame (is that about 5 years?). For us, these possible benefits do not outweigh the benefits of not getting PR as outlined above. Maternity pay is worth bugger all, and our child can work for their own visa if they want to come and live here (just like we worked for it). Sounds like you need to figure out a similar pros vs cons list. Also think about what you do like about Australia outside of work. Is it enough to make you want to live here permanently? So you're basically here raking it in, but when it gets tougher off you toddle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chortlepuss Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 So you're basically here raking it in, but when it gets tougher off you toddle? 457 visas can work very well for some - Not everyone wants to stay here permanently. Personally I hated the vulnerability and insecurity of the 457 - but good on fourcorners for making it work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jen85 Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 If your that miserable nothing is worth it! You can always come again you would just have to foot the bill yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footballnotsoccer Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Further can anybody possibly shed some light on how long it would take to process an application? Are we talking weeks as with the 457 or does PR take considerably longer? This interests me as obviously I'd have to still be working through this period and I'm unable to find any answers on other PIO threads. Hi again, our Perm res went through an agent and took under 3 months, we were temp res at the time and had state sponsor, as mentioned before, Regard, FNS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonsmith Posted December 23, 2013 Author Share Posted December 23, 2013 Thanks again for everybody's opinions. I've drawn up the pros and cons list and it has helped but I must admit I hadn't taken into account the potential for having to work beyond the visa being granted. My manager is definitely the type to try and seek 'revenege' against me should I quit as soon as the PR visa were to be granted. However that aside, I'm also worried he will try and lock me into some sort of new contract i.e. a min 12 or 24 months etc before he agrees to sponsor me. The lists of cons is definitely outweighing the pros at the moment. The excellent quality of life here and the fact that I'm happy outside of work doesn't help make the decision easy though. I'm 29 though so figure if I do leave and come to the realisation that I've made a terrible mistake and Australia is indeed the Utopian promised land then I can always find a way back in should I wish. On that note I may even be able to come back to the same employer if I manage to leave on good terms. Does anybody know whether this time would count towards the 2 years should I come back working for the same employer, in the same position but on a new visa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourcorners Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 So you're basically here raking it in, but when it gets tougher off you toddle? Our leaving has nothing to do with the industry being 'tougher'. In fact for us, we both have secure jobs and could stay in them for another 10 years if we so wished. Nothing tough about staying put. In fact it will be much harder for us as the mining industry in the UK is well, virtually non existent, so it will be much harder to find jobs etc. Yes we're earning good money, but we live somewhere that many aussies would never even consider living, and we work hard for our wages. We invested in our futures by getting good degrees and right now it is pay off time. We know in our fickle industry it won't be like that forever. So yes we're raking it in, but any spare cash goes onto the mortgage and not on frivolities like so many of our colleagues like to do. We pay full taxes here but can't get any benefits, so Australia benefits greatly from us being here. At the end of the day my position was empty for 18 months before I applied for the job. They would have happily employed an Australian if one with the right qualifications and experience had come along, but they're just not out there. It was always going to be temporary for us, and there's nothing wrong with that. Maybe you're doing it tough and wish you could just 'toddle off'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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