Britain will have the best-performing major economy in the developed world

[Guest littlesarah]

and it's hitting many other public sector jobs hard

 

Welcome to the real world - why does the public sector think that it immune from the cutbacks. Thanks to Gordon Brown, the UK has a bloated public service sector which we just can't afford anymore

 

Well, I'm sure many will be delighted when we go back to the days of soaring hospitalisation and amputation rates as a result of a lack of preventative community health care provision. I'm sure such individuals will also be pleased to know that the number of professionals with experience in managing complex cases such as those described above has dropped because they can earn more doing basic care in private practice. (The same friend that emailed me told me she is very sad to say that she can see her future being one of building up her existing part-time private practice and leaving the NHS completely - such a shame because she is a hard-working, caring and highly-skilled person with 15 years experience - one of the best I've worked with).

 

Ultimately, 'you get what you pay for', which is why the NHS was in such a mess when I first started work in 1998. I was so proud to have been part of a shift in culture from numbers to quality, and worked hard with my colleagues to build a service that aimed to cure and discharge where possible, and work for measurable improvements in outcomes for our chronic patients, it makes me very sad to hear that the effort we put in is being devalued and I fear that some of the worst of the NHS in the 1990s may surface again.

 

I always believed that 'Agenda for Change' was a great concept, but the big flaw was that the civil servants who designed it seriously underestimated what it is that allied health professionals do. They thought that our skills are equivalent to lower grade nurses, which isn't necessarily the case. So what could/should have stabilised or reduced staffing costs ended up increasing them, because we were finally having all aspects of our roles recognised and remunerated. Deep down I knew it wasn't sustainable without serious funding commitment from the government, and it appears that pay cuts (not freezing, actual reductions in pay for carrying out the same role) are now going to be the way forward. It's a shame, because one of the things I saw come out of AfC was that we used it as a springboard to change our service and make sure we lived up to the job role in which we were placed. Perhaps that wasn't the case in other parts of the UK, but where I worked in East Anglia the whole culture and mood changed to one in which we needed to make sure we demonstrated our effectiveness, and we all wanted jobs that were interesting so it was for our own benefit to deliver services in such a way as to allow us to practice effectively.

 

Personally, I don't like the way community-based health care is delivered in Australia (I think it sometimes wastes public and private money, lacks consistency and enables some individuals to profit from what is effectively price fixing and provision of unnecessary intervention), and I think it would be a shame if the UK were to go down that route; although I do think that perhaps a shift away from 'free at the point of delivery' may be required if the populace wants high-quality healthcare. I know how unpopular that would be, but in my experience most patients seriously underestimate what it costs to deliver even a simple intervention.

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

Good post Sarah.

[Guest littlesarah]

Good post Sarah.

 

Thanks. I get quite fired up about the NHS because it's so easy to talk about the 'bloated public sector' and how great public sector workers have it, but for the people I worked with it was never about us wanting more money - the biggest gripes we had were around the issues that made it hard for us to do the best for our patients. If one wants public services to be exposed to the same market forces as in those sectors that are not publicly funded, one had better be prepared to move to a model of care delivery that is based on private health care, because by definition, public health requires public expenditure. Anyone who seriously expects health professionals to work for low wages purely because they have the privilege of working in the public sector clearly has no grasp of the alternative scenario - the fundamental fact is that if a person can earn more money working in private practice, they will. That's what happens here in Australia - public positions are often difficult to fill, especially those that require someone with clinical experience - because most practitioners are working in the private sector and doing quite nicely out of it.

[Johndoe]

 

because most practitioners are working in the private sector and doing quite nicely out of it.

 

Even more so thanks to the redundancies in the public sector here..........................saving money?????????????? They just accepted a voluntary redundancy request from a 67yr old Duty Nurse Manager with 46 yrs service in the system................they should have let her work till she dropped.........it would have been cheaper.

[wolvesaussie]

Thats the problem tho, I used to work in pubic service, they would not let the oldies go because of the pay off, they would let all the young people go, so they would lose all the eager talented young staff and be stuck with the oldies counting down till the day they could retire

[Johndoe]

Thats the problem tho, I used to work in pubic service, they would not let the oldies go because of the pay off, they would let all the young people go, so they would lose all the eager talented young staff and be stuck with the oldies counting down till the day they could retire

 

I think it's a case of "who you know". They refused some with less service because of the cost, yet she got it?????????? Many are afraid to request as the conditions state that if your request is refused, by virtue of the fact that you are prepared to give up your position, they can then move you to another location/position....................even hundreds of k's away

[Paul1Perth]

Interested to know who will be working in this new revitalised economy, will it be the new migrants from other EEC countries or will the north get refurbished and provide employment for the long term unemployed. If its pushing paper around like the last flush of growth can only see optimism for part of the population. Still I suppose the paper pushes can pay more tax for the unemployed.

 

What is needed world wide is training for unskilled people and jobs at the end of the training. We are always going to have people who have different levels of education and competence and the scrap heap is not the place to put them.

 

Singapore comes to mind everyone works, they have to but they employ people to do stuff not machines, China employes all its people as best it can. Downsizing is a dirty word in my book, downsizing just makes a small proportion of people well off.

 

Cynical I am.

 

We stopped in Singapore on the way back from the UK so were there a couple of weeks ago. I see your point about employing people to do stuff. The Airport is fantastic, no holdups anywhere, lots of people around to ask if you need anything, taxis galore on the roads, pickup and dropoff to the fantastic resort we stayed at on Sentosa. Loads of staff on reception, delivering cases to the room, staff by the pool dishing out towels, looking after kids, working behind the bar, tending to the gardens, loads of people all over the place.

 

Then you read the local paper. Articles about Security guards thinking about going on strike because they were supposed to get a rise from the $800 a month salary but the government has decided they aren't going to get it now as it will cost business too much. Several stories about maids brought in from the Phillipines who can't speak English, have no training and are just let go and sent back. On top of that they are trying to bring in rules so the maids get a mandatory one day a week off. Obviously not going down to well with the Singaporeans who employ them for a pittance.

 

On top of that it's horrendously expensive to do everything. $14 for a bottle of beer was about the going rate and 3 of us for a meal about $150. We thought it was just the resort as we were a bit tired the first night so just ate there. The government though must control prices all over and dictate what to charge. The whole of the sea front in Sentosa has bars and restaurants but they all seem to charge around the same price. Happy hour in the hotel wasn't reduced prices but you got 2 for the price of one beer, cocktail, wine.

 

Plenty of places to go, things to do but you need a lot of money. Luckily we were there to relax after a hectic UK holiday so we spent a lot of time relaxing by the brilliant pool. We went on the cable car as I've always wanted to do that. $21 dollars each and another $19 if you catch the open cable car ride for the first bit.

 

Interesting to read the Straites times too and got an idea of what the Asian world thinks about Aus and it's new government.

[Paul1Perth]

It might seem like a lot. But, per hour it isnt.

On the 40% cut, i would be on the same sort of hourly rate as i would get working in a bar.

Add in the fact we are away from home for long periods.

Living in a tent

Working in with inherrent dangers of the job (drill rigs are the most dangerous equipment even on an active mine)

Living with disease - we have had 6 cases of malaria and one of typhoid in the last month

Dangers from civil unrest - the area has kicked off a few times. Most recently half a dozen police were killed.

Have the highest snake incidence in the world - we have up to half a dozen a week. There was a puff adder in the loo the other night.

 

Then, i will be pretty unhappy about the 40% cut. I dont have any debts or things, so that is not an issue. It would, for me, be probably just too much to make it worthwhile doing it.

 

Barmen on $123K. No wonder we are paying $10 a pint.

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

Even more so thanks to the redundancies in the public sector here..........................saving money?????????????? They just accepted a voluntary redundancy request from a 67yr old Duty Nurse Manager with 46 yrs service in the system................they should have let her work till she dropped.........it would have been cheaper.

 

45 screws at my Nick are leaving in the next two weeks, most have 20 years plus service and they are receiving over £40k each after tax, it's happening in prisons up and down the country, the Government are training new starters, earning £6k a year less than us and they ave to work until they are 68 and pay triple what I pay for their pensions and they will get less, it's happening also with the police and most other public sector workers. The UKs slowly coming out of it's long recession, yeah great ...... Shame the majority of workers have had to pay for it, which they will never get back.

[paul1977]

 

45 screws at my Nick are leaving in the next two weeks, most have 20 years plus service and they are receiving over £40k each after tax, it's happening in prisons up and down the country, the Government are training new starters, earning £6k a year less than us and they ave to work until they are 68 and pay triple what I pay for their pensions and they will get less, it's happening also with the police and most other public sector workers. The UKs slowly coming out of it's long recession, yeah great ...... Shame the majority of workers have had to pay for it, which they will never get back.

someone has too. Tough luck

[paul1977]

Barmen on $123K. No wonder we are paying $10 a pint.[/QU£OTE]

$12 mate

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

someone has too. Tough luck

 

 

Your right, 1.5 million public sector workers have paid a big chunk of it, they have lost their jobs due to the cuts, it's only people with families, young kids, mortgages, losing their homes, I know it doesn't matter to some. The point I am making is this, the threads about Britain having the best performing economy which is still in the balance and will still be way behind Australia, but ....... It's not trickling down to the millions of workers, who have had their pay frozen, or have lost their jobs. Yes it's better news, but lets not get carried away.

[Guest Andy]

45 screws at my Nick are leaving in the next two weeks, most have 20 years plus service and they are receiving over £40k each after tax, it's happening in prisons up and down the country, the Government are training new starters, earning £6k a year less than us and they ave to work until they are 68 and pay triple what I pay for their pensions and they will get less, it's happening also with the police and most other public sector workers. The UKs slowly coming out of it's long recession, yeah great ...... Shame the majority of workers have had to pay for it, which they will never get back.

It is "great" that the uk is coming out of recession. We have all had to pay for it, I for instance am earning the same as I was 10-15 years ago but I just have to get on with it, those that whine because they have not had a pay rise get right on my nerves, try taking a massive pay cut and see how you get on.

[paul1977]

It is "great" that the uk is coming out of recession. We have all had to pay for it, I for instance am earning the same as I was 10-15 years ago but I just have to get on with it, those that whine because they have not had a pay rise get right on my nerves, try taking a massive pay cut and see how you get on.

We'll said Andy, lots have suffered like you, the hoff should count his self luck that his wages haven't gone down like so many. His wages haven't gone up . Hope things get better for you all ASAP

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

It is "great" that the uk is coming out of recession. We have all had to pay for it, I for instance am earning the same as I was 10-15 years ago but I just have to get on with it, those that whine because they have not had a pay rise get right on my nerves, try taking a massive pay cut and see how you get on.

 

 

It's everyone's right to complain about not getting a pay rise for years if they want to, the toffs are getting richer and the top earners have had their tax reduced by 5% plus the MPs have given themselves a huge pay rise, millions of people in the UK are doing it tough, so if I people want to moan about it, let them, why do you care? If it gets on your nerves just ignore it mate.

[Paul1Perth]

Interesting read here. We've just returned from a holiday and one of the things we noticed was the North South divide seems to have gotten even bigger.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/business/economics-blog/2013/sep/22/uk-growth-london-north-south-divide

[simmo]

I hope the north eventually catches up with the prosperous south but they need to stop mopeing around with chips on there shoulders blaming thatcher for all their woes and look to the future.

[Paul1Perth]

I hope the north eventually catches up with the prosperous south but they need to stop mopeing around with chips on there shoulders blaming thatcher for all their woes and look to the future.

 

You ever been "up North" mate? People don't mope around, they are the happiest bunch and love a good laugh. Thatcher has a lot to answer for but they've let it go and just make the best of it. No chips on the shoulder at all.

[simmo]

You ever been "up North" mate? People don't mope around, they are the happiest bunch and love a good laugh. Thatcher has a lot to answer for but they've let it go and just make the best of it. No chips on the shoulder at all.

 

I was in eccles about a year ago and it was like one of those lowrey paintings... Tried some eccles cake.. wasn't impressed:dull:

[Paul1Perth]

I was in eccles about a year ago and it was like one of those lowrey paintings... Tried some eccles cake.. wasn't impressed:dull:

 

We went to the Lowry centre in Salford Quays, can't believe how nice Manchester and around Salford has been made. At least if you have a look around there you have a feeling of where the money went when Labour were in power. At least they tidied things up and put in some decent infrastructure. You should have visited there instead of Eccles.:cool:

[caramac]

We've lived in the north for two years now and I haven't seen anyone 'moping around with chips on their shoulders'. I've been surprised at just how much wealth there is here - my daughters are at school with girls who come from some very successful families who set up and run well known national and international businesses. The cars around school are no different from those we saw in parts of London or south Manchester when we lived there.

There's no denying there is a lot of poverty in places too, but no worse than anywhere else we've lived. My husband works with some of the most deprived people in the area, but says that, on the whole they are the most generous, kind people you could meet. They have a sense of humour which he can see even when they're at their lowest. He enjoys his job here more than the one he had in the UK before because the people he works with are more relaxed and easygoing.

It's a bit of a double edged sword imo. I can see that if the govt (of any colour) got it it's head out of it's backside they would see a lot of untapped potential up here (as companies like Nissan have). There's so much space for a start, but the quality of life we have here is way better than anything we've had before in the UK and I have a feeling that would be ruined if everyone cottoned on to how good it is here. It's surprised me. I didn't really want to come here, but it's been a lesson on being open minded and leaving your prejudices behind. We won't be here forever, but it's not a bad way to spend five years of your life.

Personally, i'm quite happy for the folk in the south to believe 'it's grim up north'. Those of us who have found ourselves here know it's a spin by northerners to keep things as they are.

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

Even though the UKs economy is creeping out of the doldrums, Cameron has announced that the cuts and austerity measures will carry on until 2020. That means no real pay rises, but inflation will still be running high, meaning millions of folks standard of living will carry on being eroded for years to come.

[simmo]

Realy?

[Guest Guest 47403]

Realy?

 

Pay attention simmo haven't you heard the tories are promising a budget surplus :skeptical: only way that's going to happen in the next decade is austerity, austerity and even more austerity......................so yes the hoff is right the standard of living in the UK will continue to drop with the average to mid earning working man being hit hardest.

 

Saying that I think the benefit system is in for a major shake up under the blue army they'll save a few quid there, those in most need of benefits will probably be the ones worst hit though. It's the tory way!

[simmo]

It grates some people to see how the UK is dragging itself out of recession. I sometimes wonder if they would prefer that we stay in it just to prove a point..