Advise needed regarding child flying solo.

[crackerjack]

Hi just a quick one. I have my 13 year old daughter staying with me for ten days after not seeing her for an unbearable six months (after losing a leave to remove case). My seventeen year old son who is also staying has let slip (talking to my sister in law) that the family are probably not coming over next christmas as the flights were so expensive and will wait to the following summer (uk summer). That will make it 18 months until I see my children again and I am particularly worried about my daughter being still so young and so bonded to me. Even CAFCASS said they MUST have a long visit at least annually. In the court order at the end of the leave to remove case the arrangement was for all the maintenance (£288 a month), to be spent on the childrens flights, so I KNOW there is enough money, but I cannot make my ex spend that money on flights. I am very angry that my son tells me the family have just brought a new imac, a new car and a planning a holiday to fiji but they cannot afford a flight for my currently 13 year old daughter to visit me next year.

 

I am therefore considering stopping paying maintenance direct to my ex (which is still currently being collected by the CSA), and paying it into an account to cover flights (as this is what the UK court order stipulates), and sending my ex a copy of the balance every month. If there is any left over it can go towards my daughters future financial needs or future flights. I am not sure my son (who will be 18 and a half by next year), will be coming back next year as he has just left school and is working full time and saving up for travelling, which means I will be paying for my daughter to fly over alone.

 

At the moment I do not think her mum will agree to let her fly alone to visit me as I believe the primary motive for the emigration was to weaken our bond, but I wanted to be pre armed with reasons why it would be ok for her to travel alone before I broach her about it. So has anyone put their older children on a long haul flight and if so how did they cope with it. Were they accompanied the whole time including during the stop over? How much extra is it to pay for an escort service for a child of 14?

 

 

Any help or advise would be very welcome. Thanks

[Parley]

I don't CSA will allow that.

Child Support is meant to cover food, housing, clothing, schooling etc not flights. I expect you would have to fund that extra.

 

Why don't you go and visit her ?

[Guest The Pom Queen]

Sorry to hear this but I agree with Parley, the CSA is mainly for food, clothes, bills etc not for holidays. If it states on the court order that she must see you once a year how about splitting it, you go and visit one year and they will the next. At the end of the day it is expensive to fly a family out.

There are many parents who have flown their child solo and I'm sure there is a member who sent her child at 8yrs old so I'm sure she would be fine.

[crackerjack]

I don't CSA will allow that.

Child Support is meant to cover food, housing, clothing, schooling etc not flights. I expect you would have to fund that extra.

 

Why don't you go and visit her ?

 

I have been told the UK CSA have no jurisdiction over collecting maintenance on behalf of people living in Australia which is why the judge set up an arrangment where instead of the CSA collecting it, it would be paid into a joint account with two thirds going to my ex wife for the childrens/childs flights and one third to me for a flight. However l told my ex wife she can keep all the money as for reasons I will list below I cannot visit Australia. I do not believe my ex has told the CSA she is living in Australia now (and the leave to remove application was for permanant removal and they have sold their house in the UK etc), which is why I think they are still collecting it.

 

I. The one third that was set out for me only would cover a flight. It would not cover my hotel costs (and I would want my children/child to stay with me if I was over their rather than just take them out for day visits), as well as spending money, which going by my reasearch is expensive.

 

2. I am not a high earner and my wife (who only works part time and has children), and I are struggling to make ends meet. We also accrued a debt of 7k from fighting the leave to remove case and a debt of 5k from our wedding in 2011 which we planned before we knew about the emigration. These debts eat up a lot of our income. To add another 2 to 3k on to this debt for me to visit the children would crucify us and we have been crucified enough, mentally, emotionally and financially.

 

3. If I visited Australia it would be on my own (due to the costs), this would use up most of my annual leave, leaving me very little time with my wife and I to share together here. I am a police officer and I absolutely NEED time with my family to keep me balanced and sane.

 

4. My daughter is VERY close to wife and my step daughter (same age and been in eachother lives now for 8 years), so my daughter prefers the idea of visiting the UK, as there are many loved one she wishes to spend time with. In the past ten days she has spent with me, one of her school friends came down for a sleep over and I dropped her off to another friend for two nights. she has also been over for my mums seventyith birthday and caught up with my mum and dad (and my dad is 76 and has a heart condition so will never see his grand children again if they do not visit the UK), all her cousins, aunts uncles etc. This visibly meant a lot to her.

 

5. my pale freckly daughter hates the heat in Brisbane at this time of the year and has said to me at least 5 time this visit how much she is relishing the cold. I cant even get her to wear a coat and I thought she would find it freezing, so this is a wonderful break from the heat for her.

 

I understand what you are saying about maintenance going on household needs, however that is not what has been stipulated by a UK Court. The sum used for maintenance was meant to be used to safe guard contact, which my ex wife predictably is about to renege on. Therefore I feel no qualms in paying it into a seperate account to safe guard contact. Trust me, I am not the type to try to get out of paying maintenance and I would not keep a penny for myself.

 

Any advise on the solo flying would be very welcome.

[Bumblebeem]

The CSA don't have jurisdiction in Australia. I'm not sure about other airlines, but Emirates allow children to fly solo from 5 years old. They arrange for a staff member to accompany them in the airport, but once they are 12 years old they treat them as an adult, so completely unaccompanied. I hope that you find a solution, it sounds like an awful situation

 

 

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[crackerjack]

The CSA don't have jurisdiction in Australia. I'm not sure about other airlines, but Emirates allow children to fly solo from 5 years old. They arrange for a staff member to accompany them in the airport, but once they are 12 years old they treat them as an adult, so completely unaccompanied. I hope that you find a solution, it sounds like an awful situation

 

 

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Hi Bumblebeem. thank you for your reply and your empathy. I think the stop over will be the sticking point if they do not accompany her.

[Guest Bazinga]

Tell the CSA she's in Oz. She's supposed to go thru the Australian CSA and they collect it from you. If she's out of the country she can't have a UK CSA claim as far as I know.

[crackerjack]

Tell the CSA she's in Oz. She's supposed to go thru the Australian CSA and they collect it from you. If she's out of the country she can't have a UK CSA claim as far as I know.

 

Hi Bazinga, Thanks very much for your reply.

 

If I decide to cancel my direct debit to the CSA I will be contacting them to tell them she is in Australia and has been since June.

Just wondering if she makes a claim through the oz CSA will they take into account the current UK Court order stipulating the money is paid into a joint account and used on childrens flights only to safe guard contact, in light of them only being given permission to emigrate based on these safe guards?

[ali]

Hi Bazinga, Thanks very much for your reply.

 

If I decide to cancel my direct debit to the CSA I will be contacting them to tell them she is in Australia and has been since June.

Just wondering if she makes a claim through the oz CSA will they take into account the current UK Court order stipulating the money is paid into a joint account and used on childrens flights only to safe guard contact, in light of them only being given permission to emigrate based on these safe guards?

 

I don't know if it will mean anything, but you won't have lost anything by making sure they have a copy

[Dublin4]

I don't CSA will allow that.

Child Support is meant to cover food, housing, clothing, schooling etc not flights. I expect you would have to fund that extra.

 

Why don't you go and visit her ?

 

Sorry to hear this but I agree with Parley, the CSA is mainly for food, clothes, bills etc not for holidays. If it states on the court order that she must see you once a year how about splitting it, you go and visit one year and they will the next.

 

Did you two not read the Mans post! He clearly states that it was agreed with his ex that the CSA money he pays would go towards flights back for his daughter, and that this was one of the courts stipulations for allowing his ex to take their child to Australia. Even if this was not the case, if someone is selfish enough to take a child away to Oz, and thus end the chance of that child having a proper relationship with its Father/Mother, then they certainly should be the ones to pay for flights. Yes?

 

 

Cracker, I'm making the assumption that you are a good Dad, and that your post is not just a roundabout way of asking if you can get away with not paying child support for your daughter.

 

 

I cannot offer any advice about your situation because I know nothing about it, I just want to wish you the best of luck. I'm not a Father, but I do have a brother who is, and he is a great Dad. He is a Dad that is struggling with a system that is heavily weighted against Fathers. He is struggling with a vindictive ex wife who is doing everything she can to disrupt the relationship my Brother has with his child. So far, the system in Ireland has allowed her to get away with it. I have seen how badly this effects both my Brother and his Son. My brother is going through turmoil with it, but he does still get to see the boy. I cannot imagine what he would feel if his Son was taken from him to a place as far away as Oz, so you have my sympathy.

 

 

I would suggest that you continue to pay until the time comes that your ex does break the agreement. If I'm reading your post correctly, she has not done that yet. If she does break it, inform the authorities who made the stipulation to begin with. If nothing comes of that. You then have a tough decision to make.

[crackerjack]

Dublin4. First of all a huge thanks for taking the time to reply and trying to help.

 

Did you two not read the Mans post! He clearly states that it was agreed with his ex that the CSA money he pays would go towards flights back for his daughter, and that this was one of the courts stipulations for allowing his ex to take their child to Australia. Even if this was not the case, if someone is selfish enough to take a child away to Oz, and thus end the chance of that child having a proper relationship with its Father/Mother, then they certainly should be the ones to pay for flights. Yes?

 

Thank you for reiterating what I was trying to say.

 

 

Cracker, I'm making the assumption that you are a good Dad, and that your post is not just a roundabout way of asking if you can get away with not paying child support for your daughter.

I am a loving dad, who loves his children more than life itself. I would rather cut my arm off than not support my daughter. I am considering not paying in a bid to support my daughters desire to see her dad and extended family. Also just want to add, if I was the type of dad looking to save money for myself, I would not have so far in my life accrued debts of 11k with the sole aim of keeping my children in my life. And the court order stipulated I could keep one third of the maintenance for myself (and after all no one could have done anything if I never did spend it on flights!) but instead I chose to allow my ex wife to keep the total amount, being honest and telling her all the reasons I would not be flying out and it would be better for the children to visit here.

 

 

 

I cannot offer any advice about your situation because I know nothing about it, I just want to wish you the best of luck. I'm not a Father, but I do have a brother who is, and he is a great Dad. He is a Dad that is struggling with a system that is heavily weighted against Fathers. He is struggling with a vindictive ex wife who is doing everything she can to disrupt the relationship my Brother has with his child. So far, the system in Ireland has allowed her to get away with it. I have seen how badly this effects both my Brother and his Son. My brother is going through turmoil with it, but he does still get to see the boy. I cannot imagine what he would feel if his Son was taken from him to a place as far away as Oz, so you have my sympathy.

I feel so much for your brother. In 2004 I spend 4k on fighting my ex wife in court after she vindictively stopped me seeing my children for over night visits when I stopped paying the £620 a month mortgage and switched to paying child maintenance instead which was half the amount. At that time she worked part time for her dad earning the same as me 24k working full time, and the amount she lost from me stopping paying the mortgage was made up in tax credits (and as I found out during this leave to remove case through slips in her and her husbands statements), her boyfriend, (now husband) a quantity surveyor earning 80k a year at that time was paying all her bills and mortgage. It was worth the 4k, because without that court order I would have lost my children. I really hope things work out for your brother because I know who harrowing and distressing it is, and I hope his ex never goes to the extreme of emigration to bring about an end to their relationship.

 

I would suggest that you continue to pay until the time comes that your ex does break the agreement. If I'm reading your post correctly, she has not done that yet. If she does break it, inform the authorities who made the stipulation to begin with. If nothing comes of that. You then have a tough decision to make.

I have considered this but there are two issues with it. Firstly my son has now left full time education and is working full time. I do not feel I should still be paying for him (if he lived in the UK this would be a point when my ex wife would have to contact the CSA regarding a change in circumstances). This would reduce the amount I pay by £80 a month which I would put towards clearing the leave to remove debt. The second point is if I carry on paying until she reneges on her agreement (and I know from bitter experience, that she will. It was something I said time and time again during the court case), I will not have the money saved up to bring my daughter back for a visit as it will all have gone on this years maintenance.

 

[fifi69]

There is a lot of help you can get regarding minors flying on their own. Some airlines will provide brilliant assistance using their own staff. At any airport that is used as a stop off for Oz there is dedicated lounges for said minors.

 

You could also look into Sky Nannys

 

As long as your daughter is comfortable flying on her own, def not a problem. She would never be left on her own.

 

Ive flown loads of times with kids flying to the UK on their own to attend Private schools there.

[Bumblebeem]

@ OP. we've worried about solo flights too (we haven't had the situation yet, as we haven't moved but our situation is different to yours). We worry about how busy and unfamiliar the airports are and the safety aspect too, considering a 12, 13, 14 year old is still a child

 

 

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[Bumblebeem]

There is a lot of help you can get regarding minors flying on their own. Some airlines will provide brilliant assistance using their own staff. At any airport that is used as a stop off for Oz there is dedicated lounges for said minors.

 

You could also look into Sky Nannys

 

As long as your daughter is comfortable flying on her own, def not a problem. She would never be left on her own.

 

Ive flown loads of times with kids flying to the UK on their own to attend Private schools there.

 

Does this cover over 12s too? It sounds really good ?

 

 

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[crackerjack]

Does this cover over 12s too? It sounds really good 

 

 

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Just what I was thinking. It is a worry isn't it. I seem to be able to find lots of stuff about under 12's but not much about teenagers. I would not want her to spend a second on her own during a stop over.

[Guest Bazinga]

Look at Singapore airlines. They do 5-12 and 12-18.

[Canary Yellow]

Regards the flight my daughter flew alone from London to Sydney with Qantas when she was 15. They assigned her to a staff member at check in who stayed with her throughout the airport up to departure lounge, handed her over to the flight crew until the crew changeover in Singapore then another crew member took her for the second half of the journey. My sister had to sign her off in the uk and I signed for her in Australia. Qantas needed our passports before the flight so they could verify our identities. Staff stayed with her at Singapore changeover, excellent care.

[Guest Bazinga]

Thought I'd already said this but obviously hadnt. Call the CSA now. Get advice from them, not us. Tell them she's in Oz. The Australian CSA page is very useful too.

[DSouzas]

My OH’s cousin flew from NZ to the UK last week by herself and she’s 15. He mum arranged for someone from the airline to accompany her all the way (she flew with Singapore Airlines). When she arrived in the UK airport the lady who accompanied her waited until family arrived to pick her up so someone was with her all the time.

 

Hope this helps, good luck with your situation, I hope you get some good news soon.

 

Clare

[crackerjack]

Thanks for your responses Clare and Canary Yellow. You have done a lot to reassure me regarding my daughter regarding flying solo at 14, just need to broach it with my ex which will not be so easy. And Bazinga, thanks for your input. I will ring the CSA first thing Monday to get their advise.

[Parley]

It is an unusual arrangement. Was it the fact that your ex wife was moving to Australia that you didn't have to provide child support which covers ongoing living expenses ?

In Australia child support is expected to pay for housing, food, clothes etc. Contributing to cost of a flight would not be considered child support in Australia.

 

I know you love your daughter very much and it must be terrible for you being apart from her, but it seems odd to me you don't have to pay child support in the traditional sense.

Child Support must be quite different in the UK to Australia.

 

Hope it works out for you. I sympathise with your plight. I also pay child support (a lot) but thankfully my kids are not far away. It would be very tough.

[Dublin4]

I have considered this but there are two issues with it. Firstly my son has now left full time education and is working full time. I do not feel I should still be paying for him (if he lived in the UK this would be a point when my ex wife would have to contact the CSA regarding a change in circumstances). This would reduce the amount I pay by £80 a month which I would put towards clearing the leave to remove debt. The second point is if I carry on paying until she reneges on her agreement (and I know from bitter experience, that she will. It was something I said time and time again during the court case), I will not have the money saved up to bring my daughter back for a visit as it will all have gone on this years maintenance.

 

 

If that is the case, you have a difficult decision only you can make.

[Guest JK2510]

Emirates cover children up to 16 on a young persons service.

[crackerjack]

It is an unusual arrangement. Was it the fact that your ex wife was moving to Australia that you didn't have to provide child support which covers ongoing living expenses ?

 

Parley cross that is exactly it.

 

This is word for word what the court order says regarding contact (in red). I tried to copy and paste it but the order is in a pdf and it won't let me edit it.

 

I am perfectly satisified that the following arrangements could be made for contact:

 

a) That the Mother will ensure that the children are in the UK at least once each year for a period including two weeks clear with the Father. (probably at Christmas)

 

b) That the CSA funds will be set aside (£3000 pa approximately) for use by the parties and the children to fascilitate contact.

 

c) That the father should be given generous skype, telephone and internet contact with the children.

 

This holiday I have had with my children has been for 10 days (not two weeks as stipulated) and that has been broken up with taking my daughter to see her best friend for a few nights.

The reason I am considering stopping paying the money to my ex wife and paying it into a separate account (though sending her the balance each month to show I am not spending it myself), is to be able to kill the argument that my daughter can not visit next christmas (as my son has advised me this is unlikely due to the prohibitive cost of flights). However there are ample funds for my children to fly over on their own (or just my daughter) as once they are here they do not have to spend a penny on food or accomodation. The lack of funds argument is also very hard to swallow as an excuse for forcing my still only 13 year old daughter to be apart from me and her extended family for 18 months, considering I have been told the family has just brought an imac and are planning on buying an Austin Martin. I am just trying to wrestle back some control in the only way I can think how to do.

I know you love your daughter very much and it must be terrible for you being apart from her, but it seems odd to me you don't have to pay child support in the traditional sense.

Child Support must be quite different in the UK to Australia.

I love my daughter in the way most dads love their daughters. I also love my son deeply but accept he is almost a man. Please let me reassure you my motive for not paying maintenance is not to keep the money for myself. That is not the person I am. And I am not depriving the family of money for day to day living as that is not what it is intended to be used for post emigration. I hope this makes it much clearer for you.

 

 

 

Hope it works out for you. I sympathise with your plight. I also pay child support (a lot) but thankfully my kids are not far away. It would be very tough.

 

Thank you for your sympathy. I do appreciate it. I have no issue with paying my ex maintenance and never have. But if she is planning on not bringing my precious daughter to see me next christmas (as I said so many times would happen in my leave to remove statement and in court), then I need to find a way to counteract that. This past six months apart has been too long. I cannot imagine what 18 months would feel like and I am desperate not to find out.

 

 

 

 

Thanks to everyone again for your input and help. It is very much appreciated.

[Jarvl]

Just what I was thinking. It is a worry isn't it. I seem to be able to find lots of stuff about under 12's but not much about teenagers. I would not want her to spend a second on her own during a stop over.

I have sent you a long PM (I used to be cabin crew)