poochibabes Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Hi everyone sorry i have not been on here for such a long time. I have been here now two months and we have enjoyed Brisbane a great deal apart from the fact that the company I work for are total w***ers!!!! I work for a small recruitment company who are finding times very tough and i'm worried that as i'm currently on my 3 month probationary period that they could let me go with only 1 weeks notice (they have chopped two other people in the last week). I have been pro-active about this and have actually secured myself a new role (an offer is currently being put together in the next week) with a large, stable company however my dilemma is that the new company do not want me to start until mid/late January. If I get let go before mid/late december this will cause me lots of problems with my 457 visa as i've read you only have 28 days to transfer the visa. I am devastated to say the least, particularly as we have signed up for a 12 month lease and my other half is doing well in his new company. Any ideas folks? Would you suggest I contact the DIAC and chat things through? Would they take consideration if I have a job offer but cannot start until after the 28 days. Thanks in advance XX:arghh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I don't think that DIAC are going to be able to help, I certainly wouldn't be going to them in your shoes. I would probably say hang in there and see what unfolds, you haven't been given your notice yet, then even if you are they might not tell DIAC the same day and the 28 days only starts from when they do. Also 457s can start sooner than the day you are due to start work, so perhaps that can be done in advance. Maybe you could ask your OH to approach his company and see if he can get spsonroship quicker than you can. Unfortunately you are experiencing one of the pitfalls with this visa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlew Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Personally, I would hold off and wait for your employers to broach the subject. If they do, you can then chat it through. Could you reduce your hours therefore making you cheaper to employ and hhelp bridge the time to your new job starts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Hi everyone sorry i have not been on here for such a long time. I have been here now two months and we have enjoyed Brisbane a great deal apart from the fact that the company I work for are total w***ers!!!! I work for a small recruitment company who are finding times very tough and i'm worried that as i'm currently on my 3 month probationary period that they could let me go with only 1 weeks notice (they have chopped two other people in the last week). I have been pro-active about this and have actually secured myself a new role (an offer is currently being put together in the next week) with a large, stable company however my dilemma is that the new company do not want me to start until mid/late January. If I get let go before mid/late december this will cause me lots of problems with my 457 visa as i've read you only have 28 days to transfer the visa. I am devastated to say the least, particularly as we have signed up for a 12 month lease and my other half is doing well in his new company. Any ideas folks? Would you suggest I contact the DIAC and chat things through? Would they take consideration if I have a job offer but cannot start until after the 28 days. Thanks in advance XX:arghh: Do not contact the DIAC at this stage. In the circumstance you described, you should be OK if you play your cards correctly. May I suggest you consult a registered migration agent about your prospects of applying for a more secure visa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I know someone who's 457 visa was cancelled recently. Immigration gave her a fair amount more than 28 days as she went to them and said she was sorting out a new employer. I agree though, don't go to them until you are in that situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonsmith Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 get in a trade union quickly. they can not use a probation period ending as a cost cutting process, if your getting fired it must be performance related and not because ur probation period is ending. i am a unison rep here in the uk and will be moving very soon to brissy and this is one of the points within my 457 contract that i questioned. my advice is get to a recognised trade union quickly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 get in a trade union quickly. they can not use a probation period ending as a cost cutting process, if your getting fired it must be performance related and not because ur probation period is ending. i am a unison rep here in the uk and will be moving very soon to brissy and this is one of the points within my 457 contract that i questioned. my advice is get to a recognised trade union quickly The rules are different here. Even if the same ones applied, if they can't afford to keep staff of course they can make them redundant. Happens every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 get in a trade union quickly. they can not use a probation period ending as a cost cutting process, if your getting fired it must be performance related and not because ur probation period is ending. i am a unison rep here in the uk and will be moving very soon to brissy and this is one of the points within my 457 contract that i questioned. my advice is get to a recognised trade union quickly Being in a trade union does is irrelevant to employment law surely? i.e. not sure what you think being in a trade union will change for OP. If the company needs to cut costs, redundancy is perfectly legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poochibabes Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 Thanks for the note blossom - would you be able to share any more information on what happened to your friend perhaps in a PM to settle my nerves?! It really is destroying our time here in australia and I wake up dreading going to work each day. Hopefully I will get through to the end of the year and then i'll have plenty of time to transfer the visa. I think the company who will be giving me new employment may even start me a week or so early to save us as my other half works there too and they would lose him if we had to go home. They are a big plc business so i'm sure they will do there best to help me. Sadly in the world of working in recruitment companies it is very much based on financial performance and if you're not hitting your financial targets they will happily chop you (I saw it plentful back in the UK!). I have started a new area for the business so i'm hoping they will give me more time to make a success of it. Besides they invested money in bringing me over, sponsoring me and paying for a migration agent in doing so. Will keep everyone posted but if anyone has any more success stories I would really appreciate it xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebourvellec Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 You should speak to a registered migration agent, (dont speak to DIAC). Also if your OH is working for the new company that you will be going to work at, he would be able to be sponsored as primary applicant and you as secondary if your sponsorship fell through before you start your new job. But from what you have posted I would try not to worry too much, but you should look in to getting PR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonsmith Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 you can not be sacked after a probation period to cut costs. it MUST be performance related. if on the other hand they need to cut costs there are things that can be done. you can like someone said offer to reduce your hours, BUT your employer must also chip in and help. read your contract, refer to employment law. it wont be as cut and dry as you may think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 If you have evidence that you will be starting work in January such as a contract then i wouldnt worry as DIAC are usually very good with that sort of case and will often issue a bridging visa in them circumstances. As for the advice on joining a union. All i would say is that i, as a manager, would rather not fill a vacancy than fill it with them loons and most of the managers i know are of the same opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 you can not be sacked after a probation period to cut costs. it MUST be performance related. if on the other hand they need to cut costs there are things that can be done. you can like someone said offer to reduce your hours, BUT your employer must also chip in and help. read your contract, refer to employment law. it wont be as cut and dry as you may think. Unfortunately what you are suggesting doesn't fit in with migration law. To be on a 457 visa you have to work full time. And the op said the company was finding it tough financially, so they can make people redundant. I am guessing, as I don't know for sure, but part of sponsoring an overseas employee is that you are not taking jobs away from Australians. So it would make sense that as part of the sponsorship conditions, if there were redundancies to be made that it would be the people without perminant residency first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Op, the person I know found a new sponsor. Told immigration it was being sorted. Took about a month and a half and that job fell through. Went back and told them she was looking for another one. I think it must have been at least two months in the end, maybe more. She found another sponsor in the end and all is well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Gordon, i think you are in for a shock when you get here. I was a union rep before moving here and I certainly was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joebloggs Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 (edited) you can not be sacked after a probation period to cut costs. it MUST be performance related. if on the other hand they need to cut costs there are things that can be done. you can like someone said offer to reduce your hours, BUT your employer must also chip in and help. read your contract, refer to employment law. it wont be as cut and dry as you may think. No not sacked, but retrenched yes. If you are on probation you are not a permanent staff member and when things like this happen the employer has the right to have a target on your head, everyone in Australia accepts that's the way it when you start a new job because that's the way it is. Wouldn't matter if you are on a 457 or a permanent visa, the only difference is that on a Permanent visa you can just apply for a new job but on a 457 you have to run around looking for a new job plus one that is willing to sponsor. If there is 6 people on Probation and 3 retrenchments, then it comes down to performance. It happened to a friend of mine a few weeks ago he started in August on a 457 and was told a couple of weeks ago there was possible retrenchments and about 3 days later he was told that he was the last in first out. There was also 2 other permanent staff members who were retrenched also. Edited November 4, 2012 by Joebloggs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joebloggs Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 (edited) Unfortunately what you are suggesting doesn't fit in with migration law. To be on a 457 visa you have to work full time. And the op said the company was finding it tough financially, so they can make people redundant. I am guessing, as I don't know for sure, but part of sponsoring an overseas employee is that you are not taking jobs away from Australians. So it would make sense that as part of the sponsorship conditions, if there were redundancies to be made that it would be the people without perminant residency first. Not really the 457 holder can not be treated any different in this respect you have the same rights as a citizen when it come to work conditions. I survived 2 retrenchments when I was on a 457 visa, but I wasn't on Probation. You have the exact same rights as a citizens including the right to have a 6 month probationary target on your head. Edited November 4, 2012 by Joebloggs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest burgledad Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Noooo! DIAC are quite dopey so the 28 days will not trigger until they get alerted and then get around to it, after which you can negotiate with them. Usually OK if you have another job lined up. Also, nothing ever gets sorted in Aus from mid December until mid-Feb. You could ask your current employer to take their time telling DIAC if the worst happens. Buy a bit of time. btw: a 457 is not classified as probationary. Fair Work Australia rules are that you only need to give one week's notice for staff in the probationary period of their contract or you can extend probation to a maximum of 6 months. No reason needs to be given. I came here from the UK and the rules differ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankDownUnder Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I'll be brave and put it out there, because I have what most 457 workers dread: first-hand experience with this. And I've lived to tell the tale. I am a 457 visa holder in a highly skilled occupation. In late November, 2011, I was made redundant. I gained my new sponsor in early May, 2012 (and I LOVE my new role, so it was definitely for the best). Yes, it took about 5 months, and I resolutely kept my feet on Australian soil during this time, figuring that I wouldn't be able to get back in on the 457 if I left, and I didn't want to lose the 457 no matter what. I immediately began a search for work, as panic'd as the OP above that everything I'd invested in Australia was about to be gone. As we all know, this isn't the time of year when Australian companies are hiring. Fortunately, as confirmed by another poster to this thread as well as my own experience, it's ALSO not a time of year when DIAC is focused on diligently hunting down 457 holders who lose their sponsors. Through contact with various resources (pro bono migration agent advice, DIAC, etc.) I determined that it isn't as cut and dried as "You're out of the country on Christmas Eve if you don't have a sponsor by then." At least in my situation, in Eastern Australia, DIAC has to get to the point of processing your employer's notification of cessation of sponsorship. Unless things have changed radically in a year, there's a multi-month queue before DIAC even notices you've lost your sponsor. And even then, there's a process they go through. Different people have explained it to me different ways, with the process giving you more or less time. If you ask someone, you'll probably get a different story than I did, as no two people (not DIAC, not migration agents, not other people who've gone through other visa hell) ever thought it would go the same way. Worst case: They give you a notice of intent to revoke your visa, you appeal the visa revocation by paying $1500 to get into the (year-long?) Migration Review Tribunal queue, and Australia gives you a bridging visa without work rights while you wait it out. You then immediately request a BV with work rights based on hardship of no income. They (probably) grant it. You are then -- wait for it -- arguably in a better position than a 457 holder to gain employment, as you don't require sponsorship (which many companies don't like waiting for). You then get a job and get that employer to either file another 457, or ENS/RSMS permanent sponsorship, and you notify the MRT you are not proceeding with your appeal. I can say more about my specifics in a PM if you'd like (I did not have to go as far as filing an appeal with the MRT, FYI). Just to "second" a few things other posters have said: (1) Australia, in general, doesn't seem to get much done between November and February, whether it's hiring new staff or chasing down 457 visa holders who lose sponsorship. (2) My CO didn't even care whether I had a filed 457 sponsorship, as long as when he called the prospective employer they said they were in the process of filing it. Once they see proof you're going to be working again soon, they lose interest in getting rid of a source of tax dollars. ;-) (3) Unless you have really bad luck, you are very likely to have more than 28 days to find a new sponsor, especially at this time of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anabanana Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Poochibabes, I am in the exact same situation as you! My company is very unstable (I was very much misled when I accepted the job) and they have said to me they dont know when but people will have to go and my job is one on the line. I am still on my probation. Next week my CEO comes to town to basically tell us what is going on which may be bad or not. I like you am all nerves. I also have partner coming over in less then two weeks as he could not come over with me 6 months ago. I just need it to not happen untill he does! I have met with a few companies but this is a bad period. I was told there is nothing now but most likely early Feb. So I totally understand what you must be feeling. I have been told by many friends that also know people that have lost their jobs on 457's and that the DIAC are sympathetic and are ok to keep extending as long as you keep updating them on your progress job hunting. It does make me feel good to hear from you Yankdownunder as your experience made me feel even more relieved as you were the first that was not delivered from a 'friend of a friend'. You mentioned that you did not need to go to MRT. Did you contact the CO straight away and let them know you were looking and in conversations? I would be intrigued to know what to expect and how long I can keep them updated, especially over the holidays and tough recruitment period, untill the MRT needs to be an option. You mentioned it took you 5 months...was this just letting them know you were looking still? Poochibabes, hang in there and you are not alone!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joebloggs Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 It happened to a friend of mine a few weeks ago he started in August on a 457 and was told a couple of weeks ago there was possible retrenchments and about 3 days later he was told that he was the last in first out. There was also 2 other permanent staff members who were retrenched also. Update on this story this guy was extremely lucky as a couple of other people put their hand up for voluntary redundancy (they had already applied for other jobs which came through at the last minute) so although he was given notice and an end date the employer withdrew it after consultation with him to stay. A very close shave, but he has survived and wisely just has to find a PR route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP33 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Update on this story this guy was extremely lucky as a couple of other people put their hand up for voluntary redundancy (they had already applied for other jobs which came through at the last minute) so although he was given notice and an end date the employer withdrew it after consultation with him to stay. A very close shave, but he has survived and wisely just has to find a PR route. Hi all Just reading this and would like to add advice from my experience (sorry a nearly shock story). Without no notice on Friday, My employer a major plc facing not that hard times, made me redundant for reasons of reduced workload .... Hmmm still working 40+ hours a week ..... and started to tell me I had to leave Aus in 28 days. I really feel that they can boss 457 workers around unduly. Only then I informed them that i was in fact PR.....and said "read my emails!" they didn't seem too pleased, would they have made me redundant then? Who knows but I enjoyed picking up my redundancy cheque! my Advice please read .... Go for PR as quickly as possible if you you want to stay in Aus. My opinion is that companies don't care about you or shipping you back home, they care about their bottom line! I'm so cynical now :0) Take care all and hope it worked out for you all. Cheers JP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joebloggs Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Hi all Just reading this and would like to add advice from my experience (sorry a nearly shock story). Without no notice on Friday, My employer a major plc facing not that hard times, made me redundant for reasons of reduced workload .... Hmmm still working 40+ hours a week ..... and started to tell me I had to leave Aus in 28 days. I really feel that they can boss 457 workers around unduly. Only then I informed them that i was in fact PR.....and said "read my emails!" they didn't seem too pleased, would they have made me redundant then? Who knows but I enjoyed picking up my redundancy cheque! my Advice please read .... Go for PR as quickly as possible if you you want to stay in Aus. My opinion is that companies don't care about you or shipping you back home, they care about their bottom line! I'm so cynical now :0) Take care all and hope it worked out for you all. Cheers JP Not a bad result, you are right 457 are easy come easy go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicolac34 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 you can not be sacked after a probation period to cut costs. it MUST be performance related. if on the other hand they need to cut costs there are things that can be done. you can like someone said offer to reduce your hours, BUT your employer must also chip in and help. read your contract, refer to employment law. it wont be as cut and dry as you may think. Interesting.... that's exactly what my OH's employer did - the week before his 6 month probation was up just said there was no money to employ him anymore and told him to leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggers68 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Hi all Just reading this and would like to add advice from my experience (sorry a nearly shock story). Without no notice on Friday, My employer a major plc facing not that hard times, made me redundant for reasons of reduced workload .... Hmmm still working 40+ hours a week ..... and started to tell me I had to leave Aus in 28 days. I really feel that they can boss 457 workers around unduly. Only then I informed them that i was in fact PR.....and said "read my emails!" they didn't seem too pleased, would they have made me redundant then? Who knows but I enjoyed picking up my redundancy cheque! my Advice please read .... Go for PR as quickly as possible if you you want to stay in Aus. My opinion is that companies don't care about you or shipping you back home, they care about their bottom line! I'm so cynical now :0) Take care all and hope it worked out for you all. Cheers JP JP, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!!!! Companies use and abuse 457 employees and in some cases pay them less a lot less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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