YankDownUnder

Yes, repost and ask for Bundaberg details. Bundaberg people would not necessarily read a thread about Mackay. It's definitely best to get advice from people who've actually lived in a town you're considering. About the only point of comparison you can glean from my comments is: "A lot of people who've just visited Mackay, think it's a "hole", but this woman who's just visited Bundaberg thinks it's OK." (Seriously, when I mention Mackay in Sydney, I get a lot of, "That place is a hole," which is a way of saying it's not particularly great.) No, I don't know any internet sites that might. careerone.com.au and seek.com.au are popular job hunting sites in Oz, so if you haven't tried them, by all means do. Good luck.

Bundy's going to be a more stable place, if you want to be in a country town - it has a few things going on, but is MUCH smaller and feels much less like "a city" than Mackay. Also, it's on the correct side of the parts of the main north/south highway that can get cut-off during floods and influence supplies, so you won't run out of lettuce or toilet paper if there's a very wet "wet season" (LOL, in Mackay, we had 3 weeks without grocery store restocking once. I think the army finally sent TP and water in.). A former coworker lived in Bundy for years and commuted up to Mackay during the week to work for a couple years (she got a deal where the employer would pay her hotel costs during the week!) because she wasn't willing to sell in Bundy and buy in Mackay. Many towns along the QLD coast are either mining-related communities of one sort or another (Mackay, Gladstone) or somewhat backpacker-touristy (Bundy and Yeppoon ... I think that's what you meant by yappon). Be warned that Bundy is the home of Bundaberg Rum, so it's a bit of a tourist magnet. That said, I haven't heard anyone say anything bad about the place and when I've stopped there for lunch and driven through there a few times it's seemed like a nice Queensland town. I think the slightly touristy towns in QLD are more interesting (and likely contain both a better mix of people AND more reasonable pricing for locals who know where to go to buy things off the main tourist roads) than mining towns. Plus, it doesn't hurt to be as close to Brisbane as you can be - Bundy's about 4 hours away, which is much better than Mackay's full day's drive away. And you'd be near Hervey Bay, which is a well-known beach town (I don't know about the beaches at Bundy). Rockhampton is a bigger city, and constantly tiffing with Mackay as to which deserves to be considered the capital city of the central Queensland region. I think Rocky's OK, and I'd prefer it to Mackay, but I think that it, too, has recently been discovered by the itinerant mining crowd, with all the financial and cultural down sides that entails for those who don't work in that sector. One thing I didn't address in my post was that Mackay does have a university (CQ Uni aka Central Queensland University), but it's done a dumb thing that I feel has undermined its credibility as a serious uni, by recently merging with the very broken local TAFE (trade/technical college) system. I don't know about educational facilities in Rocky or Bundy. Of the cities you list above, I'd pick Bundy as having the best mix of lifestyle and cost of living, and a lower itinerant population than mining towns, though. It might not be a place you'd want to stay forever, because it IS small, but I think it would be a good place for an adolescent to spend a few years, to have the experience of living there.

I lived in Mackay for 3 years. Regarding crime, the one and only time I have been mugged was street urchins in Mackay who knocked me over and took my belongings. I've lived in New York City and am a wary person, but Mackay has too many totally dark streets and too high an urchin population with the local justice system bigger into handslapping than real deterrance - I wouldn't walk around after dark as a single woman anywhere near the CBD. Additionally, it can be physically dangerous on weekend nights when the over-alcoholed rich hoons are out. Most pubs/clubs in Mackay are concentrated in a several block area that gets overrun with badly behaved people at those times. Property crimes (theft, vandalism) are a significant issue in the area, as there seem to be a surplus of homeless children and drug dependent young adults. Private schools will help keep your child away from this element, but no guarantees. You'll need a car to do much of anything there, for sure. If you end up living north of the river (where the hospital is), both major shopping centres "MtP" aka "Mount Convenient" aka "Mount Pleasant" and "Canelands" aka "Caneland Central" are a short hop away, the latter over the Ron Camm Bridge. Myer is the only non-discount department store in the area. A short walk from Canelands is the (free) swimming lagoon. Your 11yo would probably enjoy that a lot if she likes the water. Mackay is full of sport leagues, and I'd say most kids I knew there were involved in at least one and often more than that. There are even some unusual things like a circus arts troupe for kids to get involved with. I like the older parts of Mackay on the south of the river, although most of those are in the flood plain. Most people in Mackay live north of the river. As another poster points out, the nicest newest housing is in the northern beaches area, and the beaches there are quite nice, but housing is (1) poor quality, (2) out of your price range renting by yourself. Beware that some of the nicest areas of Mackay north of the river (hello Glenella and Kerrisdale Estates) are also in flood plains. Research where you're living carefully if this matters to you. I had friends lose tens of thousands of dollars of partially or un-insured belongings in the flood a few years ago. There are units and smaller homes near the MtP shopping centre (walking distance for your daughter in a year or two, I'd say... don't know that I'd send an 11yo to MtP alone) that would also be convenient for your work. There are city buses that could take her to and from Whitsunday Anglican, depending on where you choose to live ... but in general, public transport in Mackay is quite poor. The income you mention is not a high one for the area, in which the average is closer to $100K per annum. The only way you're likely to get affordable housing on that base salary is to house-share, as the other poster recommended. And you'd probably be limited in that as well because many home sharers seem to prefer fellow hospitality workers (the party house crowd) or miners (the "I want 52 weeks of rent per annum but only want to see you 10 days a month" crowd). DEFINITELY look into shift work or anything that will get you 30-50% more dollars and you'll be much better off. Even then, it will be challenging to prove income to potential landlords if your contract doesn't specify that those penalty rates/extra hours are guaranteed for $x per week over your base. Coming from the UK, you'll get a kick out of living in the tropics and eating tropical fruits every day as if it's no big deal, though, I think. I'm glad I did it, because if I hadn't, I wouldn't have gotten to Oz, but also glad to be living in a capital city with a lower cost of living and more amenities of "civilisation" now.

And to make another point, you seem young. *IF* you have substantial savings you can afford to toss on this, aren't afraid of a bit of hard times, and you are WILLING to take a risk for the chance of a lifetime (as I did), I would probably do it anyway, particularly if you qualify for permanent residency and get the employer to agree in writing to sponsor you. Australia's a great country, and I spent about 8 weeks here on various short trips in a 5 year time span before deciding I had to be here and basically bet the farm on a move. I hit my savings every single month for 3 years to make ends meet. By the end of my time in Mackay, I was down to $15K, which is synonymous with "nothing" when you're alone in a country and looking at using that up in less than a year even while fully employed because a 457 visa doesn't let you earn secondary income even if you have time to do so. And then all of a sudden, the universe shifted my way. New job perfectly aligned with my expertise, new city, new cost of living that put me back to the lifestyle to which I was accustomed, employer sponsored permanent residency application. Once you're in the door and your boots are on the ground, you can look for a better opportunity with any employer who'll sponsor you in your line of work, and if they are accepted as a sponsor by DIAC (immigration), they can just take over your existing 457 visa without you having to do anything to it. With 6 months experience on Australian soil, you suddenly become more interesting to employers who would not necessarily hire someone directly from overseas. They know that by that time, you like the country and want to stay, and aren't just applying to get work to fund a short term holiday or something. They can also fly you out for an interview for peanuts, so they're more likely to talk to you. I saw this happen several times with people who joined the same comically-low-paying employer who initially sponsored me. It took me longer to leave than most, because I was in the middle of a relationship in Mackay at the time and hadn't wanted to leave for a couple years. Summary: If you take on that opportunity, you're playing the odds with no guaranteed outcome. Make ABSOLUTELY SURE you can estimate the cost of living, add 30% (everything costs more, and it costs more "more" than you think), and then make sure you can cover it with salary and savings. If you do this, your best bet is to do the hard yards for 6 months, then make finding a better opportunity your after-work hobby for the next 6 months. Particularly if you're willing to head out West eventually (it's tradie HQ due to the mines), you ought to do fine. Employer loyalty? When they're offering that kind of income to live in Queensland, they deserve the results they're likely to get.

My comments regard Mackay, because I lived there for 3 years. Salary was higher than yours but lower than the median 6-figure number there and I found it very difficult - as a single with no family. Mackay is a mining town full of single tradies with 6-figure salaries, who often pool their salaries and "hot bed" in houses they rent as groups -- where half of them are in the house at one time and the other half are off working at the mine site. In addition to the cost of housing, most basic goods cost more in Mackay due to lack of competition + transportation costs of getting goods up north. Forget about $10 meal deals like are all over capital cities, too. All doctors in Mackay charge above the bulk-bill rate, so every medical appointment will cost extra above whatever your insurance is (good luck affording that for 3 on 52K a year, too... for decent insurance you're probably looking at at least $500/mo for 3 if not $600 or more). DEFINITELY the cost of living as well as part time work options for your wife would be better in Brisbane. With the downturn in the mining industry, the average income in Mackay (once up around 6 figures) has surely gone down temporarily but given the pathetic supply of housing in Mackay, the number of well-paid miners in the area still pushes up prices to a ridiculous extent. You'd like a 2-room hut with a living/dining/kitchen area and a small bedroom, 10km from the city centre, for $400/week, right? Granted the view did rock, but still. I'd be stunned if you could get a house for $350; at one point Mackay vacancy rates were one third of one percent. It's hard enough to get an old, creaky 2BR unit for that, especially when you're putting your salary on the rental applications and the agent has a choice of you or a set of 3 miners each of whom makes 2x what you do. FWIW, I never did succeed at the rental agency game; at the time I required a rental, you really had to "know someone" in order to get chosen instead of those with high incomes.

And I still don't understand how this could be, if the employer has had to requalify as a sponsor since 2009, which means they had to meet the new 457 sponsorship training requirements that [seem to be] the same as the ones for the new ENS.

Per immi.gov.au, sponsorship applications (ie, the employer side, not the employee) are normally approved for a duration of only 3 years, which would imply that anyone still sponsoring people in 2012 (which my employer is) has had to re-qualify as a sponsor under the new requirements, wouldn't it? Or can those 3 year sponsorship authorizations be extended without having to prove they meet the new requirements?

Cross-checked this with an agent today. I think the thread you reference is not complete in its details. The new training requirements for the ENS are the same ones they've had to meet for 457's (not ENS, but 457's) since 2009. Since any 457's granted prior to the rule change were only 2 year visas, none of those are still valid, which means that if the company has any 457's working for them today, they've been subject to those new requirements. This in turn means that you're probably safe although it might take some discussion to prove it to the CO's satisfaction.

@bonza2211, Worst case on how recently they were approved as a 457 sponsor is last May when I was brought on. I'm fairly certain there have been others sponsored here on the 457 since then, but I have not asked. Are you saying that if they were approved generically as a sponsor (of the first employee they sponsored) years ago, that they're not re-evaluated to ensure they meet the new 457 sponsorship conditions that are introduced, like the training requirement, any time they wish to sponsor another employee? They also sponsor several people a year under the ENS program, most recently earlier this year before the regulations changed on July 1. Feedback I have received this week from several agents is that under the new ENS system, the employee side is straightforward (dunno... for Direct Entry it hasn't changed much since last year, and people were NOT calling it straightforward last year), but the employer nomination side has gotten much, much, much more difficult -- not in the least because it's new enough and undefined enough that agents are basically having to take an educated guess as to the documents required for a successful nomination due to lack of ironclad specifics in the nomination DRC. Regarding the training requirement in particular, the employer has stated to me that they spend at least 1% of their payroll on training Australian staff by way of employing several people (3-5 depending on time of year, as some are shared with another overseas location) out of a staff of around 120-150 whose function it is to develop and offer courses to staff (at least 50% of attendees of training courses are Australian staff) and others such as clients or staff based overseas (which include more Aussies). The company has a formal training program with syllabi and it requires positive assessment results before issuing certificates of completion. Typically an employee spends 2-4 weeks a year in training classes or updates, because the company isn't going to risk putting an unqualified or out of date person in front of a customer. The amount of training here is way above average as mid-sized organisations go, because knowledge enhancement is a company priority. (In my first six months, I've already sat 4 weeks of courses and product briefings and am scheduled for another one in a couple weeks.) This isn't counting OH&S or other administrative training, just heavy-duty product content.

Ah yes, I have an employment contract that specifies it is a permanent position with a 6 month probationary period (which has now been passed). I thought that was included in the employer nomination part, and that what I include is the employer nomination or a copy of something that shows that the nomination has been filed and is being processed. The only reason I haven't let the employer start their side yet is that they tell me (I didn't know this) that the employer nomination must be decision ready as well as the employee's application being decision-ready. That would mean that I have to have the agent do both halves if I decide to go for the DRC (which I really do want).

I filed printouts of emailed Aussie PAYG's (yearly salary summary sent to the govt for taxes) from the employer (doesn't the UK do something similar?) and screenshots from our employee portal showing a couple example payslips, and it was fine for VETASSESS. No originals required.

I'll be brave and put it out there, because I have what most 457 workers dread: first-hand experience with this. And I've lived to tell the tale. I am a 457 visa holder in a highly skilled occupation. In late November, 2011, I was made redundant. I gained my new sponsor in early May, 2012 (and I LOVE my new role, so it was definitely for the best). Yes, it took about 5 months, and I resolutely kept my feet on Australian soil during this time, figuring that I wouldn't be able to get back in on the 457 if I left, and I didn't want to lose the 457 no matter what. I immediately began a search for work, as panic'd as the OP above that everything I'd invested in Australia was about to be gone. As we all know, this isn't the time of year when Australian companies are hiring. Fortunately, as confirmed by another poster to this thread as well as my own experience, it's ALSO not a time of year when DIAC is focused on diligently hunting down 457 holders who lose their sponsors. Through contact with various resources (pro bono migration agent advice, DIAC, etc.) I determined that it isn't as cut and dried as "You're out of the country on Christmas Eve if you don't have a sponsor by then." At least in my situation, in Eastern Australia, DIAC has to get to the point of processing your employer's notification of cessation of sponsorship. Unless things have changed radically in a year, there's a multi-month queue before DIAC even notices you've lost your sponsor. And even then, there's a process they go through. Different people have explained it to me different ways, with the process giving you more or less time. If you ask someone, you'll probably get a different story than I did, as no two people (not DIAC, not migration agents, not other people who've gone through other visa hell) ever thought it would go the same way. Worst case: They give you a notice of intent to revoke your visa, you appeal the visa revocation by paying $1500 to get into the (year-long?) Migration Review Tribunal queue, and Australia gives you a bridging visa without work rights while you wait it out. You then immediately request a BV with work rights based on hardship of no income. They (probably) grant it. You are then -- wait for it -- arguably in a better position than a 457 holder to gain employment, as you don't require sponsorship (which many companies don't like waiting for). You then get a job and get that employer to either file another 457, or ENS/RSMS permanent sponsorship, and you notify the MRT you are not proceeding with your appeal. I can say more about my specifics in a PM if you'd like (I did not have to go as far as filing an appeal with the MRT, FYI). Just to "second" a few things other posters have said: (1) Australia, in general, doesn't seem to get much done between November and February, whether it's hiring new staff or chasing down 457 visa holders who lose sponsorship. (2) My CO didn't even care whether I had a filed 457 sponsorship, as long as when he called the prospective employer they said they were in the process of filing it. Once they see proof you're going to be working again soon, they lose interest in getting rid of a source of tax dollars. ;-) (3) Unless you have really bad luck, you are very likely to have more than 28 days to find a new sponsor, especially at this time of the year.

Hi, I'm doing an ENS 186 application and am in the position of having to fund all migration related expenses -- even the employer sponsorship nomination application -- myself, due to company policy. Therefore, I'm trying to conserve funds wherever I can. I'm already here on a 457, working for the employer who's sponsoring me. However, I'm applying under Direct Entry now because I have not been with them 2 years, and my 50th birthday is in December. I have not yet lodged either the ENS nomination application (employer side) or the ENS 186 application itself, so I do not yet have a TRN. The HR rep at my employer has indicated that he needs to know whether or not I'm using an agent, and if not, he'll file the nomination himself. I have not yet told him one way or the other, because I really WANT to find an agent. But I also want it to be affordable since the employer has sponsored many (pre-186) ENS workers in the past and is preparing the same packet they've used successfully before, and I've been trawling forums for years and really do feel confident that I will have accumulated all the required documentation by submission time. Fortunately, I am the only person on my visa application, as I do not have a partner or children. I have accumulated the following: (1) Certified copy of all passport pages (2) Certified copy of birth certificate (3) Two photos * (4) [Not yet scheduled, as I want to be sure the police checks arrive in time so I can do a DRC] Medical * (5) [Awaiting arrival] FBI national police check clearance (I'm a Yank, not a Pom ;-) * [Awaiting arrival] AFP national police check clearance (6) Positive skills assessment from VETASSESS (7) CV (8) Certified copies of degree completion certificates Certified copy of uni transcript * Certified copies of statements of service for all employment during past 5 years [one of three still in transit to me from America] Proof of salary level for all employment during past 5 years (9) Proof that I am under 50 (birth certificate and passport) (10) Proof that I meet the English language requirement (American passport) I have also (in absence of TRN) preliminarily completed paper copies of all old ENS forms I can find (new system is totally electronic), including Form-80-from-hell and have things like my travel history, deceased parents' towns of birth, siblings' current locations, residence history going back 10 years, employment history going back 30 years, list of former passport numbers, etc., ready to go. In short, as soon as the police clearances arrive and I get the medical done here in Sydney, I believe that all the boxes that might realistically require ticking, are ticked. Can anyone recommend a migration agent in the Sydney/Canberra/Melbourne area who can do a reasonably-priced DRC for someone who can walk into the office with all of the information required for both the employer nomination and the sponsored employee's application? Alternately, can an agent on here tell me realistically how much greater my chances are at success with an agent vs. going it on my own in the situation described above? I really want the DRC, for reasons I won't talk about here (it's more than just "I'm impatient"), but if I have to forego it, I'd at least like to know that my one and only chance at PR is likely to succeed. For example, if DIAC doesn't think the employer nomination paperwork is complete, will the employer have the chance to add more documentation? (I have to admit, being more famliar with the employee side than the employer side, I'm less confident in the employer side paperwork even though my employer is an international company with a history of successful sponsorships.) Thanks