Bridgeman Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 We have been looking at houses here and thinking about buying at some stage but are finding that all Oz houses seem to be basically the same inside, with the open plan kitchen/family area and bedrooms to close to the family area, and the main bedroom on the front, - wife doesn't like this at all - the thought of anyone being able to walk up to the bedroom window while you are asleep at night gives her the heebie jeebies!. I know this is probably what most families prefer but we basically don't like the open plan design and would prefer to have a separate kitchen where you can close the door, and separate lounge. We have seen some with separate theatre room but there's no door on them, just an archway. Surely if one person is watching TV in here then it interferes with what another person is watching in the family area? We prefer separate rooms -easier to heat/cool, preferably bedrooms upstairs, but failing that in the back. We can't seem to find this here in WA. Is it the same for all states, or is it just the builders here that have a monopoly? Anyone know of a builder who does separate rooms? And don't even get me started on the quality! - already discussed this in another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicF Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 We're building our own house and putting the living room at the front with a proper door that can be closed, although we are having an open plan kitchen / family area at the back. I like the living area at the back thing as then you can open the doors and go and eat outside when th weather is nice. Not all Aussies houses are the same and some are laid out differently depending on the size and shape of the block, but open plan living is very popular here, certainly in newer houses. Some older houses we have looked at have seperate kitchens and living rooms that can be closed off. My mother in laws house has a kitchen/dining space and a seperate dining room that opens in to the living room but has doors between that can be closed. Although most of the plans on new builds have the rooms laid out the way you describe there is no reason why you cannot change the plans and have the rooms laid out in whatever way you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freckleface Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 The current trend in project homes is open plan as that seems to be what most people like but you can modify them and increase the spec as much as you want to. You might find an older home is more to your taste - either as it is or renovated. You also have the option of getting an architect to design something that you can have custom built. Personally I prefer this option as you can get exactly what you want down to the smallest detail. As with all things in life the outcome will be determined by your budget and the amount of effort you are willing to put in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 If you are getting a house built by one of he big builders you will find 95% of them won't make such dramatic changes, but there are a couple who do, so ask around. Hardly any of the older houses are open plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight7 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I think the reason they are open plan is because they are cheaper to build. They've got us all conned into thinking they are better but if you have several kids- no they are not. The older houses were often better built and offered better privacy. I watched a very well known builder put decorative brick piers in- they were built surrounding the spindliest looking pieces of wood you could get- all show. Near us they put up some townhouses which look beautiful- but we watched them build and they were really shonky- on the lean and minimal materials everywhere. So buyer beware- you might well be better off looking at an older house! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob1 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Mine isn't - every room has a door. Build in 1931! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest littlesarah Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Not all houses have the bedrooms off the living room thing - we looked at a number of properties with that layout, until I told the estate agents I didn't like it and would prefer not have bedrooms off the living room. Once we'd figured out what we wanted, we were able to be quite specific with estate agents and they only showed us the sort of houses they thought we might like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest26012 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 We like open plan! Our bedroom is at the front of the house which is nice as its away from the other bedrooms if we have guests etc! I can fully understand that you want separate areas etc! Open plan is good for us as there are only two of us and we were happy with the layout of the house when we built! As little Sarah says let them know what you want and they can then show you houses that are suited to your needs! Good luck with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest littlesarah Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I think this thread illustrates the 'horses for courses' adage! Home builders build what is popular at the time of designing the house, and although the 'perfect' house for one family may be in a minority of dwellings on the market, I'm sure it'll be there somewhere. In the end, we found our house thanks to a really good agent - a lot of the others seemed disinterested, one lied to us and organised a gazump (though she did us a favour as it turned out), & all the rest wanted us to view properties that were not suitable because of location or lack of renovation potential, or having a pool, or whatever. As others have said, different design and construction companies have different designs - friends of ours recently had a house built, and they have an informal open-plan area as well as a TV room and a separate study/play area on the second floor, so the kind of thing you have in mind is there somewhere! I find that, in general, Aussies seem to enjoy an informal lifestyle, & I think a lot of families like the idea that if mum or dad is in the kitchen they can keep their eye on the kids in the living room; and if you have guests round it can be nice for them to be able to talk to you without being in the kitchen. I thought kitchen smells might be an issue - but I don't find it any worse than in our UK house where the bedroom was over the kitchen. I reckon that the best bit of house-hunting is finding the right house amongst the ones that aren't for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 The problem of building a new house which is not open plan is that you may have trouble selling it at a later date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Don't know about WA but I think the trend to put the living space at the rear of the house is that it works well with the outdoors/indoors living sort of thing going on. I agree with NicF in that your back yard becomes an extension of your living space, with a covered area to sit/eat in and so on. Bedrooms at the back mean this can't really happen easily and where would the kitchen and dining then go? I like the flow of the Aus layout in that respect and that the two spaces work together. I'm with you though, I don't really like bedrooms off the living space much but in some houses the odd room off can work. However, I don't mind them at the front in the least (was odd to begin with though) and the living at the back and prefer single storey and the longer style house over the standard UK box shape. I used to find the Aus layout weird but having lived in various countries where they differ again (don't get me started on Dutch houses being impossibly tall and having to walk up 3 loooong flights of stairs to get to bed after walking up a huge long steep staircase just to get to my apartment on the 4th floor!), I soon got used to it. It made sense in many respects with the sun coming from a different direction and single storey before the advent of AC and so on. I have found plenty of older houses tend to have rooms and often the layout can be jigged and you can put your living room at the front in place of a bedroom (I know someone who has this and it works well only their bedroom is next to the kitchen/diner with only a very short walk down the hall to get to it). I know plenty of people who put up those fancy metal grills on front bedroom windows and again, soon got used to this. When in the room blinds are usually shut so its not like you see them. Hubby had them on his bedroom in his house and after a week or so I didn't even notice them anymore. I think one of my favourite layouts I saw was where there was a 'formal' living room at the front, bedrooms and bathroom in the middle section and the living (kitchen/diner and living room space) at the rear. Although there is not much call for formal these days :cute: I'd defo be looking at older properties over new ones and be asking the agents to only show you stuff that matches your requirements at least 80% say. Hopefully there will be something out there that you like. But like everything else, when you are living in a different country and climate, trends in building and also practical reasons might mean what you are looking for may not match entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgeman Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 Thanks everyone for your replies. I think we will definitely need to look at older houses. I think the main problem with new houses is that they are built from front to back of a narrow plot, whereas our house in the UK was built across the widest part of the plot, so you could still have room for the living, and bedrooms at the back - and have extra space away from the neighbours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Some new build plans have main bedrooms that are near the front of the house but not quite at the front. Their windows are on the side of the house behind the front side gates...so technically in the back yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dianaos Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 I think the reason they are open plan is because they are cheaper to build. They've got us all conned into thinking they are better but if you have several kids- no they are not. The older houses were often better built and offered better privacy. I watched a very well known builder put decorative brick piers in- they were built surrounding the spindliest looking pieces of wood you could get- all show. Near us they put up some townhouses which look beautiful- but we watched them build and they were really shonky- on the lean and minimal materials everywhere. So buyer beware- you might well be better off looking at an older house! As an architect I would have to say those "spindliest looking pieces of wood" is all that is needed. However the general public don't understand this and want the bits for show. They serve no purpose whatsoever. A house built from bricks and mortar is not necessarily better or stronger built. the Swedes have been building "flimsy" timber buildings for years without any problems. Timber frame houses have also been built in Australia for years, again no problems (often better in cyclone areas!). The reality is we are now in the 21st century with a better understanding of the strength of materials and we also use new manufactured materials that have greater strength than the more traditional materials. Building out of bricks and mortar is old fashioned, not as efficient and not as ecologically advantageous. As for open plan, developers don't try to trick purchasers and do it to it because it is cheaper. Developers build what the market demands, if they didn't they would go out of business. If Australians preferred the traditional English format then developers would build that. The reality is we don't. Like the Americans, and the Europeans we like a more open plan arrangement. It means that women aren't stuck away in the kitchen while entertaining, the kids can be watched while eating, playing, doing home work etc, the rooms are big enough for a dining table so get used every night rather than eating off a tray in the living room. (Most British dining rooms are only used a couple of times a year!) and on top of all that, larger rooms have more airflow so without air-con tend to be cooler. Living areas are at the back so that parents can watch the kids outside and it is better for entertaining. If you want an older style building then there are plenty of those in the main cities that were built "British fashion" however many Australians don't want to remain glued to the "this is the way we have always done it" but prefer innovation and finding new ways of doing things, hence we like new build. If you go to Sydney and look at the traditional Paddington terraces you would be amazed to find that behind many of the facades the original buildings have been gutted and a very modern open plan design is built behind it. These have been privately built, not developer built. Also I suggest you start watching Grand Designs both the English and Australian versions, these homes are mostly open plan as well and there is no developer anywhere near! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Ropey HOFF Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 I just Drool every time I think about how big and fantastic the houses are in Australia. YEAH BABY!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northshorepom Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 As an architect I would have to say those "spindliest looking pieces of wood" is all that is needed. However the general public don't understand this and want the bits for show. They serve no purpose whatsoever. A house built from bricks and mortar is not necessarily better or stronger built. the Swedes have been building "flimsy" timber buildings for years without any problems. Timber frame houses have also been built in Australia for years, again no problems (often better in cyclone areas!). The reality is we are now in the 21st century with a better understanding of the strength of materials and we also use new manufactured materials that have greater strength than the more traditional materials. Building out of bricks and mortar is old fashioned, not as efficient and not as ecologically advantageous. I'm not big on bricks and mortar myself but timber framed covers a multitude of sins. I lived in Sweden for 3 years and the houses there were superb - best I've ever seen, lived in, or worked with, provided you weren't obsessed with space. They're not massive on the whole, it's a very Swedish thing to make stuff "lagom ett" or "just enough". I only mention it because there's a world of difference in terms of construction quality between Swedish houses and Aussie ones. Not saying it just to slag Australia, it's my honest and intended to be objective opinion speaking as a developer/constructor with a background in structural engineering. I'm also not saying Australian houses ought to be masonry, why should they be when there's loads of really good quality and inexpensive hardwood here and it's a much more sustainable material? I just wish they were built a bit better on the whole. There are well built houses here, don't get me wrong. There are an awful lot of not well built ones, though As for open plan, developers don't try to trick purchasers and do it to it because it is cheaper. Developers build what the market demands, if they didn't they would go out of business. If Australians preferred the traditional English format then developers would build that. The reality is we don't. Like the Americans, and the Europeans we like a more open plan arrangement. It means that women aren't stuck away in the kitchen while entertaining, the kids can be watched while eating, playing, doing home work etc, the rooms are big enough for a dining table so get used every night rather than eating off a tray in the living room. (Most British dining rooms are only used a couple of times a year!) and on top of all that, larger rooms have more airflow so without air-con tend to be cooler. Living areas are at the back so that parents can watch the kids outside and it is better for entertaining. Absolutely, but I'd say more open plan is often preferred more these days wherever you are, UK included. It's more about the times we live in than the country we live in, if you see what I mean. Easier to sell a more "modern" space for top dollar in England just as it is anywhere else. Totally agree about the waste of the average dining room too, most are just too stiff and formal for what people want. One of the things that attracted us to our last house in England was the dining room being in the middle of the house and a really lovely, light, open space that just became the main family room with our living room being a more formal evening retreat type area. We couldn't see the point in dining areas that were closed off from the rest of the house I've seen quite a few houses here (in Sydney) that have distinct rooms rather than be open plan. Maybe it's about 30% or so of them, guessing. But an open plan "family room" is very common, and for good reason. As it happens I'm about to move from a single storey house to a double storey one, so we'll see how that goes. Have lived in both in various countries and I still have a preference for bedrooms upstairs, but it does come with a caveat that the house has to be well climate controlled. Upstairs rooms in hot summers if the airflow isn't controlled and the insulation is rubbish, are not that pleasant, so it's easy to see why the Aussie norm is for single storey houses. It's the constraints on layout (as can be seen in this thread) and the waste of plot space that I can't get past. Also with a double storey house you know to some extent it has as least some decent structure in it, the walls have to be string enough to hold up the second storey after all..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dianaos Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 northshorepom, I agree with most of what you say. However I disagree about the issue of quality. I won't argue about the quality of Swedish housing however Australian houses must meet building regulations and inspectors will visit all sites to check these are being adhered to. No doubt there are a few extreme cases where there has been no quality control? However having worked in the housing industry in Britain I would say that it is no different in Britain except that british houses are built with bricks and mortar with lots of small rooms. There is obviously a difference in both countries between volume builder homes and individually designed homes but i would definitely prefer a volume builder australian home than a volume builder British home. However I believe, when in Rome etc, so have been happily living in the UK without any complaint but am looking forward to moving into a large Australian home built out of flimsy timber. :biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northshorepom Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 northshorepom, I agree with most of what you say. However I disagree about the issue of quality. I won't argue about the quality of Swedish housing however Australian houses must meet building regulations and inspectors will visit all sites to check these are being adhered to. No doubt there are a few extreme cases where there has been no quality control? However having worked in the housing industry in Britain I would say that it is no different in Britain except that british houses are built with bricks and mortar with lots of small rooms. There is obviously a difference in both countries between volume builder homes and individually designed homes but i would definitely prefer a volume builder australian home than a volume builder British home. However I believe, when in Rome etc, so have been happily living in the UK without any complaint but am looking forward to moving into a large Australian home built out of flimsy timber. :biggrin: The inspectors in most cases are private contractors engaged by the developer, not council officials. This is also the same in the UK of course - I've never agreed with it in either country, there's a fundamental conflict of interest there that is always going to lead to incentives to turn a blind eye to borderline stuff I think Aussie building regs are OK but too much effort (I would say far too much) goes into regulation of the inputs rather than the outputs. It's much more about the blokes doing the work having the right tickets, than it is about making sure what they turn out is up to code, which I don't agree with but there you go. Perhaps I'm guilty of excessive expectation - I came here expecting the construction industry to be modern, innovative and efficient and it's the probably the area in which Australia has surprised me the most in not living up to that expectation, so I go on about it too much (also I guess I live it/see it every day, so it's close to my heart). On housing quality specifically, from what I've seen (which is a few dozen developments around Sydney, so it's only a small sample) I have been most disappointed by structural, insulative and electrical work. Got not problems with the quality of other trades' output I've seen. The joinery itself is OK when it comes to walls, I just think the code is too weak on things like stud depths. Insulation, code is too weak and I've seen way too much sloppy application - 100mm of loosely packed mineral wool just isn't good enough. Electrical works in timber framed houses are my biggest gripe. Taped up joints, JBs floating around in mid air with stressed cables and cable running haphazardly through stud walls in a random way through holes punched anywhere, I see it every time I go to a development. I don't think new UK houses are that crash hot but I can only say it as I see it and I've been very disappointed with what I've seen over here. Just my experience and PoV. I probably expected too much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Putting up a stud wall is nimps,and in future its easy to take down if prospective buyers(if selling)"do" want open plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dianaos Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Lol. Maybe I am more realistic. You can't expect a volume builder to provide over and above the building regs. You also can't expect the average house to have the level of detail that a million dollar (or pound) house does. If you want the detail, you have to pay for it! Developers aren't charities and contrary to popular opinion they are not raking in the profits and cheating the purchasers. (Check out the stock markets if you don't believe me). There is no doubt I would prefer to see more emphasis on ecologically efficient housing but if the buyers aren't prepared to pay for it, then it won't happen. One of the key differences between UK developers and Australian developers is that The UK developers build houses that focus on pastiche external features of the local vernacular, while Oz house builders focus more on internal layout and features. This probably has a lot to do with the controlling planning system in the UK and that Oz houses are sold off plan. I must say I don't agree that inspectors are just paid contractors of the developers. Having worked in the house building industry in both countries I can say that there are laws about bribing officials and while inspectors fees do have to be paid, the inspectors MUST be impartial and are regulated by their profession. I don't think new UK houses are that crash hot but I can only say it as I see it and I've been very disappointed with what I've seen over here. Just my experience and PoV. I probably expected too much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 As an architect I would have to say those "spindliest looking pieces of wood" is all that is needed. However the general public don't understand this and want the bits for show. They serve no purpose whatsoever. A house built from bricks and mortar is not necessarily better or stronger built. the Swedes have been building "flimsy" timber buildings for years without any problems. Timber frame houses have also been built in Australia for years, again no problems (often better in cyclone areas!). The reality is we are now in the 21st century with a better understanding of the strength of materials and we also use new manufactured materials that have greater strength than the more traditional materials. Building out of bricks and mortar is old fashioned, not as efficient and not as ecologically advantageous. As for open plan, developers don't try to trick purchasers and do it to it because it is cheaper. Developers build what the market demands, if they didn't they would go out of business. If Australians preferred the traditional English format then developers would build that. The reality is we don't. Like the Americans, and the Europeans we like a more open plan arrangement. It means that women aren't stuck away in the kitchen while entertaining, the kids can be watched while eating, playing, doing home work etc, the rooms are big enough for a dining table so get used every night rather than eating off a tray in the living room. (Most British dining rooms are only used a couple of times a year!) and on top of all that, larger rooms have more airflow so without air-con tend to be cooler. Living areas are at the back so that parents can watch the kids outside and it is better for entertaining. If you want an older style building then there are plenty of those in the main cities that were built "British fashion" however many Australians don't want to remain glued to the "this is the way we have always done it" but prefer innovation and finding new ways of doing things, hence we like new build. If you go to Sydney and look at the traditional Paddington terraces you would be amazed to find that behind many of the facades the original buildings have been gutted and a very modern open plan design is built behind it. These have been privately built, not developer built. Also I suggest you start watching Grand Designs both the English and Australian versions, these homes are mostly open plan as well and there is no developer anywhere near! Thats it then,i'm reporting you to the sexist police!!:biggrin: Seriously tho,while working away in Germany as a bricklayer a swedish fellah showed me the specs on their ready made homes,think there was about 8 inch of jablite type insulation between the panels,was impressed tbh,even tho its just another system that does away with brickwork,and therefore my living,would never choose bricklaying as a career these days,its getting played out now:no: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petals Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 I have lived here long enough to experience both systems of inspections here in Victoria. We built this house when building inspectors were employed by the council and they were very strict. We noticed once they were deregulated and privatised houses were not being built with such attention to detail. We used to walk around a subdivision being built near us and my oh commented on the slabs and how shoddy the preparation had become. Its the same old story you gets what you pay for though. We do not have an open plan house, we designed our own house and built it. I actually hate the modern houses that are built now. They are visually pleasing when looking at display homes but then designers have made them that way, for example, there are no personal belongings around. A lot of the open plan has set areas with no doors so if you were in say the cinema room and others were in another part having a conversation then the noise would be swirling around from both areas making it pretty awful. Indoor outdoor rooms with fold back doors are big at the moment, they are wonderful to look at and the idea of the lifestyle they provide is inviting, however we live in Australia, we have flies in summer, we have mosquitoes, spiders, snakes in warmer climbs like Brissie. So its best not to leave doors open to the air. Where does that leave our lovely indoor outdoor room, who knows. Its about time builders here in Aus built for the conditions not for the pretty picture and its up to us to demand that. We could take a leaf out of the middle east book, in Israel I visited a number of houses and was very impressed with the internal court yards and solid walls to the outside, making use of the climate rather than air conditioning machines etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northshorepom Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Lol. Maybe I am more realistic. You can't expect a volume builder to provide over and above the building regs. You also can't expect the average house to have the level of detail that a million dollar (or pound) house does. If you want the detail, you have to pay for it! Yeah, obviously. I do expect them to build up to the regs though, and for things where exceeding the regs costs virtually nothing (like insulation) there's no good reason not to exceed them. I know I bang on about that particular subject way too much but most houses here are terribly insulated - new ones are better than old but there are still loads of issues Developers aren't charities and contrary to popular opinion they are not raking in the profits and cheating the purchasers. (Check out the stock markets if you don't believe me). Err, yeah, I do work for one. In the UK I was a director of one There is no doubt I would prefer to see more emphasis on ecologically efficient housing but if the buyers aren't prepared to pay for it, then it won't happen. True, but you can enforce more ecologically efficient housing through legislation too. Part L2 of the UK building regs is very stringent for example. One thing I don't get here is that for commercial build there are some really high standards, although this is market driven through the Green Star rating schemes. Unsurprisingly commercial tenants are highly attuned to their Opex and energy is the third biggest piece of that (after staff and rent). And yet in resi, the standards just aren't there. Joe Public can't tell a low energy house from a high energy one, in the main, until the bills start dropping on the mat. I think the market will demand better energy efficiency with the rocketing costs of energy, and it (energy) ain't gonna get any cheaper, but it seems to be a slow process One of the key differences between UK developers and Australian developers is that The UK developers build houses that focus on pastiche external features of the local vernacular, while Oz house builders focus more on internal layout and features. This probably has a lot to do with the controlling planning system in the UK and that Oz houses are sold off plan. Totally agree with that. I'm probably too much of an engineer and would rather both focused a bit more on the nuts, bolts, pipes and wires than eye candy whether it be internal or external :wink: I must say I don't agree that inspectors are just paid contractors of the developers. Having worked in the house building industry in both countries I can say that there are laws about bribing officials and while inspectors fees do have to be paid, the inspectors MUST be impartial and are regulated by their profession. Of course there are strict rules, but the rules exist because there is a fundamental conflict of interest. I don't want building code inspectors to have to work for the council, it's the direct contractual relationship I have a problem with. He who pays the piper calls the tune, I've seen stuff passed that probably shouldn't have been in both countries. The problem is it's insidious. An inspector lets something slide because it's not really that bad and everything else is OK. Next time he's got that in the back of his mind and won't pull the same issue up because he's let it go once - people want to be consistent. Then he lets something else slide.......Council officials can be jobsworths but in some roles you need a jobsworth. Especially where the rules are complex and subject to a reasonable amount of interpretation. I have the same problem with other "professions" where they are paid directly by someone who has a vested interest in them making decisions or recommendations one way or the other - loss adjusters and financial advisors for example. Just doesn't sit right with me, I'm sure most have the utmost integrity but there is always a motivation there for the few who don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northshorepom Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 ,would never choose bricklaying as a career these days,its getting played out now:no: Think you're right and it's refreshing to come across a brickie who can see it. There'll always be a demand in some places but the demand is declining and that trend's not really likely to reverse. Masonry structures are just too slow and messy to build when compared with alternatives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JK2510 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 I love the open plan kitchen/living area,,great for when you have guests. I agree an older house may suit you more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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