Guest SandP Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 We are having issues at the moment as we don't feel the Australia schooling is at the same level as UK. I am concerned that they don't get the most from the students and they are not going to be prepared for High School. Our daughter is in year 4 and has minimal homework, 10 fairly easy spellings each week and maths that she gets through in 10 minutes. When I queried it with the teacher I was given some guff about giving them the basis to enable life learning and how when the are good at a subject they dont get extra/harder sets of work but it open ended so they can take it as far as they like. They go to a catholic school which we pay for and I sobered if I am being a pushy parent and a whinging pom or do others find the schooling here lower level than UK? I am loathe to move them again having already moved them halfway around the world but I am fed up of setting our own homework and feeling annoyed at the school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 There is a philosophy in Australia (and other countries) that teaching younger pupils should be focused on confidence building and less homework and academic testing in younger years. I'm no expert but Australian students results stack up well against the UK in independent international tests so it seems to all work out in the wash by the end of schooling. Saying that, every state has a different education dept and different standard and of course schools vary from the worst to the best so who knows where your school sits in that continuum. Maybe you could talk to parents in the other local schools and compare? If it is any help my son in year 1 gets 2 sheets of reading/maths questions per week and reader books each week + mathletics online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 I wouldnt say schooling here is worse or better its different. My son started school here in Yr4 and it took a while for me to 'aggust' to how things are done, he is now in Yr 9 at high school and doing fine. My daughter is in Yr3 now and started Aussie education in Kindy, she gets more homework than you list above and also has the option of logging onto 2 or 3 different websites , the main being mathletics to do more work set by the teacher if she wishes. To me the schooling is 'more laid back' and not as pushy as when my son was in the UK, i feel its swings and roundabouts to compare, but fully understand if your PAYING for the education (my experience above is of state schools) why you are worried. Cal x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boganbear Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I worked in educational research for many years and the international comparison studies place Australia and New Zealand significantly higher than the UK. There are similar problems in education to the Uk (truancy, academic achievement, bullying, teaching quality) but it seems than the Aussie system is more "rounded" and less focussed on targets and testing and more on developing kids as people. Talking to my OH about his school life it is apparent that it was very different to mine and school sounds like it was a lot more fun and interesting. I had about 2-3 hours of homework a night which was far too much and made my teenage years were not always happy times. If they have free time in the week then get them interested in other things which will have many beneficial educational and non educational benefits such as sports or Cubs, Brownies, dancing or whatever. On my evening walks I see loads of kids doing lots of AFL or cricket training or activities such as surf lifesaving and Australia is great for that and i think Aussie kids are generally more respectful and hard working than in the UK. there is certainly no problems with kids hanging around on streets getting up to mischief or moaning they are bored with nothing to do, although I am sure it does happen. I was fortunate for a time to live in Gibraltar where there were lots of after school activities so I did choir, swimming and music which I loved and learned a great deal from. It gave me a lifelong passion for music and swimming and I am still proud of the fact that the only thing I ever won at school and got a trophy for was winning a race for swimming 25m (I was only 7!!). However, coming back to England was all homework and no real fun. I had to play the clarinet and hated it because of the way it was taught by being ridiculed and shouted at if you didn't do it right. As long as the teachers are happy with your kids progress and they are doing well and yoru kids are happy then don't worry too much. Support them as much as you can as parental involvement is probably the biggest factor in achievement. I used to deal with parents who were far too pushy on the academic side of things and placed little value on non academic activities and I could tell that the kids were not happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freckleface Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Personally I think many of the State schools are better than the private schools but either way I think the most important thing for younger children is to enjoy school and enjoy learning. It sets them up for life- long learning. A friend who has taught in both the UK and Aust told me the UK system teaches students to pass exams while the Aust system teaches them to think. If your children's teachers are satisfied with their progress perhaps you should stop stressing about it for awhile and see how they go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 We are having issues at the moment as we don't feel the Australia schooling is at the same level as UK. I am concerned that they don't get the most from the students and they are not going to be prepared for High School. Our daughter is in year 4 and has minimal homework, 10 fairly easy spellings each week and maths that she gets through in 10 minutes. When I queried it with the teacher I was given some guff about giving them the basis to enable life learning and how when the are good at a subject they dont get extra/harder sets of work but it open ended so they can take it as far as they like. They go to a catholic school which we pay for and I sobered if I am being a pushy parent and a whinging pom or do others find the schooling here lower level than UK? I am loathe to move them again having already moved them halfway around the world but I am fed up of setting our own homework and feeling annoyed at the school. How old is year 4? I didn't have any homework at all until I was 12 as a child and it didn't do me any harm (as the saying goes)..:wink: Year 4 is younger than 12 isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rahrah Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I think it took me a while to get my head around the differences in UK and Australian systems - my main concern was what if things didn't work out here and needed to put kids back into UK system because they certainly didn't feel to me to be transferable in level or content. But I would agree with others, what the kids are learning doesn't have as much academic emphasis, but it richer in promoting confidence, independence and there is much more opportunity for critical and reflective thinking - I feel that developing their minds in this manner will equip them well for working lives. Hope everything starts to settle down for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byrned Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 My children both went to excellent state schools in the uk both primary and high school, when they came to oz they both went to state primary and high schools here, and I know for a fact the schooling they receive here is not as good. My elder child who has now finished high school said the teaching in her high school in England was a lot more indepth and mature in delivery then here and she enjoyed the uk type of schooling then she did here. That has nothing to do with me but her experience of being a pupil in both the uk and oz school systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ptp113 Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Schooling varies hugely from state to state. At the end of the day U.K uni's are chock full of Aussies and they didn't get special exemptions to get in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I have worked with several UK families who felt as you do - and who returned to UK because of it. However, if you are already in the private system you probably want to stay there because the government schools definitely wont meet your expectations in this regard - they are worse, if anything (there may be one or two which offer a more "traditional" approach but they will change with a change in leadership I suspect). You might find more rigor at the Grammars or Radford but that will cost you considerably more in school fees. The high level of participation in private education is indicative of what concerned parents think about the system! If you are planning to stay in Australia then it wont matter at all whether they get homework or not because all the kids will be in the same boat and by the end of honours they will end up the same as kids coming out of the UK system. The "developing confidence" and "teaching the kids to think" is a load of tosh IMHO, there is a lot of lazy teaching out there and the kids dont come out any better or worse in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shell15 Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I could really notice the difference between uk and oz schools recently while searching for a school for our 14 year old. The teachers seem to love teaching the children and very enthusiastic about the subjects they were teaching. It really showed while watching the children in class and how much they responded to there lessons, such a positive vibe. At my daughters current school the vibe is completely different, the teachers are stuffy and grumpy and the kids certainly dont seem that involved. The main focus is on reaching certain levels and stats, there obsessed! Which is probably why the kids seem dispondant! We cannot wait for her to start school in oz and get her mojo back.. Education is very important but so is enjoying your time while learning. The example given is solely based on my daughters school and is not a generalisation for all schools in the Uk.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Ropey HOFF Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I can't believe any would consider coming back to the UK because of schooling, which might not be as good in Australia, i don't know, but to me the most important thing is what jobs are on offer when they leave school and currently the UK has over one million youths out of work and new jobs on offer are in general low paid, part time, temporary, or all three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shell15 Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 The prospects are much greater in oz, not just for the kids but for us as well, hence why we are outta here lol Hoff you need to get it sorted and get yourself over there!? I feel for you as it is so obvious how much you want it. I hope its sooner rather than later.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Ropey HOFF Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 The prospects are much greater in oz, not just for the kids but for us as well, hence why we are outta here lol Hoff you need to get it sorted and get yourself over there!? I feel for you as it is so obvious how much you want it. I hope its sooner rather than later.. Cheers, i'm working on it, my son applied for a part time job at Halfords, 7 hours on the minimum wage and over 50 applied for it, he was shocked by this and i have had a few conversations over employment and he says he knows how bad it is and that he is seriously considering the move to Australia, whereas a year ago it was a definate, No. If he says yes, the wife will also, she said that was a main factor, so fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shell15 Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Fingers and toes crossed for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 In Brisbane many state schools out perform the private and religious schools, specially in primary. A lot of the participation in private schools can be explained by the fact that, unlike most countries, they are govt subsidised and therefore affordable for more people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ptp113 Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Two pom kids joined my daughters primarys school and struggled. The parents whinged about the uniform, the amount of homwork (excessive), and just about everything else. Govt school, not private Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pintpot Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 but it seems than the Aussie system is more "rounded" and less focussed on targets and testing and more on developing kids as people. A friend who has taught in both the UK and Aust told me the UK system teaches students to pass exams while the Aust system teaches them to think. I see this sort of thing quoted a lot on here and am unconvinced. Not because I don't think the Aussie system is any good - on the contrary, I think it's pretty good at primary level from what I can see. I have a few more qualms at high school & university levels (not because I think they are rubbish but because I have my doubts about the HSC system - in NSW - in general and its lack of transferability to international Unis in particular). Certainly I see just as much emphasis on HSC ATAR results in press and conversation as there is concentration on A levels at home (if not more), also to my eyes there are more crammers here to boost results, and more people going to private schools, which in Sydney are not cheaper than in the UK unless you go Catholic. A similar level of effort seems to go in to getting into selective high schools. This could just be a "Sydney" thing But I'm not bagging Aussie schools. My son's primary school is well led, well resourced and pretty well run. Not seen enough teachers to know how good they are but they seem OK. I'd rank it much better than the primary school in our village at home, but not as good as the private pre-prep he attended. But then we paid plenty for that, so I'm not knocking the Aussie school. It seems to me the primary sector here is taken more seriously, not in terms of academic curriculum (as posted previously by others, happy kids who want to learn are the main objective), but they definitely want to develop the kids whereas some UK primary schools are less professional, IMO My issue with some of the comparisons drawn between the UK and Australian school systems is the implication that UK education is a 2-dimensional affair purely with the objective of passing tests. I just don't think this is the case, IME either as a pupil (OK that was 25 years ago so we'll set it aside), a guardian to my nephews when their mother was seriously ill, as a parent to my son and as a director of a PPP company providing educational services, this wasn't what schooling in the UK was about at all. It wasn't government policy, it wasn't educational practice and it wasn't what most teachers I ever engaged with were focused towards. If any group was most focused towards it, it was parents, but only in terms of educational outcomes needing a measure. So do they provide a measure here The "developing confidence" and "teaching the kids to think" is a load of tosh IMHO, there is a lot of lazy teaching out there and the kids dont come out any better or worse in the long run. I have my doubts too. It's interesting to me to hear my wife's perspective from the reading groups she helps out with at school - she does reading groups in our son's class and also helps out with the "Multilit" support for the Yr 2 & 3 kids who are struggling with reading. Obviously this is hearsay, but some of the children she helps in the latter group are definitely "struggling" because they have confidence or other social issues. Push the right buttons (she used to be a behavioural psychologist, fwiw) and some of them develop rapidly, they're not thick at all, just not been developed/brought along with the group. Again I'm not bagging Aussie schools here (or even this particular school), this sort of thing happens everywhere. It's good that they have the support system and tons of volunteer helpers, you wouldn't get that in the average UK primary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I always think that it is impossible for most people to have enough experience across the sectors, across the states and countries in both nations to really properly compare. That's why I think the international testing is so important because it is free from our natural bias and it is a broader cross section than most people's limited experiences. In the end I think it is pretty obvious that both have outcomes that correlate far more to which school you go to in either country, than to which country you choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 These type of threads always have "my dads bigger than you" and you will get people who live in oz or the uk saying their present countries schools are better than yours even if they dot really believe it, it is the same with all threads that compare oz and the uk......school does nothing IMO for the future of a child, if you have have common sense and some bottle you will succeed no matter what qualifications you have, you can have 6 A levels and still be thick as a brick whereas the kid with no A levels will be brighter because he has common sence and know where he is going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supa Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 To be honest, that's about similar to UK homework levels. Move on two years and my eldest is in year 6 here in the UK. Last easter she had to study a habitat and prepare a poster, research Midsummer Nights Dream and make a pamphlet and illustrate, wirte an essay on why she is special, 25 v hard spellings and read one school book all of which took bloody ages, bless her and she certainly didn't enjoy her holiday. She leaves for "big school" in the summer and will obviously regularly have loads more work to do. Most kids are also schooled to within an inch of their lives to pass SATS tests, which a lot of them feel stressfull. I can't help feeling that in her last term of being a primary school kid, she should be pulling back a bit and enjoy her last chances of resting. After all, work is done all day at school and I don't think it should be heaped on them in their own time. I for one don't think the UK education system is necessarily all that, and I think it is just churning out kids who pass exams and don't necessarily think for themselves which the friends I have in Oz all say that theirs do, although it depends on the school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pintpot Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I always think that it is impossible for most people to have enough experience across the sectors, across the states and countries in both nations to really properly compare. That's why I think the international testing is so important because it is free from our natural bias and it is a broader cross section than most people's limited experiences. In the end I think it is pretty obvious that both have outcomes that correlate far more to which school you go to in either country, than to which country you choose. Totally agree with that, especially the emboldened bit. It's not just question of "good" schools or "bad" schools, either, different types of schools suit different kids; some need very strict/clear boundaries and routine, some do much better in a much looser environment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SandP Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Thanks everyone for your interest. I am not dissing Aussie education in general I was just curious to hear what others thought and to help me put my thoughts into perspective. I guess I am just concerned that both my daughters are so very keen to learn but do not seem to get the support to do so. I want them to be happy first and foremost but at the same time I want to harness the energy and drive they both have to develop. I have a meeting with the Principal tomorrow so we shall see what that brings. Once again thank you all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I was quite disgusted by my Niece's experience in the UK school system when her school spent an entire school year revising for SATs. Apparently (according to my Niece at any rate - I don't have any means to corroborate it) during that year they didn't learn a thing it was all a pointless exercise of going over and over what they had done in the previous year and sitting mock exams. Now if this was for final exams such as GCSE's on which the students themselves are graded I'd be less annoyed but to expend this amount of effort on what should be no more than a survey to see well a school is performing shows the UK education system is back to front. I'm hoping for something better from Australia (but not getting my hopes up). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an1ta Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I was quite disgusted by my Niece's experience in the UK school system when her school spent an entire school year revising for SATs. Apparently (according to my Niece at any rate - I don't have any means to corroborate it) during that year they didn't learn a thing it was all a pointless exercise of going over and over what they had done in the previous year and sitting mock exams. Now if this was for final exams such as GCSE's on which the students themselves are graded I'd be less annoyed but to expend this amount of effort on what should be no more than a survey to see well a school is performing shows the UK education system is back to front. I'm hoping for something better from Australia (but not getting my hopes up). I had to think about this one a lot. I had 3 kids in high school in the UK and they loved being there, had plenty of homework, the teachers kept on top of things. If your child was caught with a phone or ipod in class it would be taken away. When we got to Australia my kids told me that all the kids listen to there ipod or play on there phones in class and the teachers dont care. I asked the head teacher about this and he said there was nothing he could do, I couldnt belive what I was hearing. When seeing the teacher on parent evening I got told that my child had not given in 3 assignment , why the hell are you telling me now. Why not write to the parent or bloody ring them. That has to go in the to hard box, something they use a lot out here. I asked my child when I got home and I was shown the assignment, the teacher just hadnt marked them. There are lots of things that I could rant about. My 2 girls have now left school one is waiting to go to uni and the other is doing a apprenticeship Just my son to finish this year. I have had to get him help with his maths this year due to lack of teachers turning up for lessons, and this being his final year I find it a disgrace. When you phone the school they are not interested. They just say well the teacher is ill, then get someone in then its not rocket science. My eldest was 16 when we got here, and the work they where doing here she had done 2 years b4 in the UK. So I asked my kids b4 I wrote this, which school they prefered and they all have said there English schools. Dont get me wrong I love Australia and the people but I do not rate the education at all :wub: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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