GrandpaGrumble

Oh yes, I was forgetting the Big Potato! Kangaroo Valley is also spectacular, though the village itself is a bit of a honeypot.

Easy access Australian style, that is - it's a good 4 hour drive from the Gong to the Sapphire Coast! On the other hand there is a lot of beautiful scenery in the Illawarra/Shoalhaven itself. Seven Mile Beach or Hyams Beach for example, or the great views of the coast from up on the escarpment.

I'm not sure that everyone does know what needs to be done. As I understand it the Voice is intended as a more organized way for the people affected to give their opinion about what needs to be done. Not really a quango as it won't have any actual powers devolved to it. All it will be allowed to do is "make representations to" the Government and Parliament. The Government and Parliament won't be obliged to act on those representations, or even listen to them if they don't want to. Nothing like the quota of Māori seats in the NZ parliament for instance. https://voice.gov.au/about-voice/voice-principles It may or may not turn out to be window dressing, a Yes vote might not be much more than symbolic, but on the other hand what would a No vote symbolize? What message would that send out?

When using irony or satire in a forum of this kind, there is always the danger that some people might think you are being serious

'Realms of fantasy' is a recurring joke in the ancient sitcom Dad's Army. Probably before your time, but any pom over a certain age would get the reference. It's so we have everything on our doorstep. Yes, it is that far fetched. The 15-minute city concept does not involve any restrictions on anybody's movements. It is not related (or is only tangentially related) either to combating climate change or to the traffic reduction measures in place in various cities around the world. See earlier posts and links therein.

I think you're getting into the realms of fantasy there again, Jones.

As in realizing that you're opposed to traffic regulations in general, and possibly to the rule of law itself? Well, yes and no. That's obviously a key feature of the anarchist position, especially of the Rothbard / Rand / William Rees-Mogg variety, but yes it's interesting / surprising to have it stated so explicitly and openly.

So people will get fined if they commit a traffic violation. Nothing new there.

Your point being?

Conflating walkability with a dystopian future of surveillance and oppression takes some work, but in recent weeks the term managed to get sucked into a maelstrom of British conspiracy theories. A British MP called 15-minute cities “an international socialist conspiracy,” while conservative self-help guru Jordan Peterson tweeted Oxford’s vehicle restrictions were the work of “idiot tyrannical bureaucrats” and referred his followers to the “Great Reset,” a 2020 World Economic Forum initiative that’s become a magnet for right-wing fantasies about a Covid-fueled plot to destroy capitalism. A British TV presenter also took up that theme, insisting that the street revamp was part of a push for “one world government.” https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-02/how-did-the-15-minute-city-get-tangled-up-in-a-far-right-conspiracy

simmo's Random YouTube Guy reckons that the 15-minute city (and/or the traffic reduction measures, he seems to confuse the two) is a "crime against humanity". He also uses the term "weft", which I assume is a combination of 'WEF' and 'left', presumably intended to imply that the World Economic Forum is a left-leaning organization!

I notice that that is an out-of-context quote from an article headed "15-minute cities: How a plan to make your life more convenient became a full-blown conspiracy": https://www.sbs.com.au/news/the-feed/article/how-an-urban-planning-concept-turned-into-a-full-blown-conspiracy/n3d7ljgxs

Also, neither idea restricts people's movements, really. Nobody is proposing that you couldn't go outside your 15-minute area. The idea is more that you wouldn't want to or need to, or at least not as often. Likewise, if you wanted to get from one side of the city centre to the other under Ghent/Utrecht style traffic reduction measures, the idea is that you'd still have the options of walking, cycling, taking the bus, or driving via the ring road rather than through the city centre - and then only if you didn't have an exemption and had used up your quota of trips through the middle. You can think of objections, but "it's all part of a cunning plan to enslave everybody", or whatever, isn't a plausible one.

It doesn't, that's not the point of these traffic reduction measures. They have little or nothing to do with the 15-minute city idea. The two concepts are both designed to make living in a city more enjoyable for most people, but other than that they're more or less completely independent. They've just become conflated in people's minds due to all this disinformation.

That is a good idea. Wikipedia would be a good place to start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15-minute_city Covers, briefly, both legitimate criticisms and the way it's been hijacked by conspiracy theorists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15-minute_city#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15-minute_city#Conspiracy_theories Try not to get lured down that libertarian / anarchist rabbit hole, though. It can be very hard to find your way back out again. To quote a review of a recent book about QAnon: A surprise about Sommer's book is how moving it frequently is. "Trust the Plan" ripens into tragedy. It describes those moments when family members realize that Dad has leaped the hedge of rationality — that he isn't kidding when he talks about Trump and conspiracies and experimental vaccines and the impending storm, and he wants you to believe his ideas too. https://boingboing.net/2023/02/20/nyt-review-of-trust-the-plan-the-rise-of-qanon-and-the-conspiracy-that-unhinged-america.html "15 minute cities" is another one that can be added to that list.