leaving a child behind (not through choice)...where do we stand with maintainance?

[Guest edwardsfamily]

hi all,

 

we were just wondering if anyone had any experiance of this dilemma....

 

my husband has a 16 year old daughter, who since the age of 4 has lived a 50/50 life between us and her mother. There has never been any formal custody arrangements as it was a mutal agreement with contact drawn up during the divorce, and therefore there has never been any finacial agreements made. We have always paid for what she needed when she was with us, and her mother when she was there. School uniforms/trips etc have been split or eneded up us paying them. Her mother gets all her child benefit etc for her.

 

However, now we are on our way to oz, our daughter has been included on our visa with her mums permission but wants to stay and finish her schooloing in the uk. Now her mother has brought up that she wants maintainance for her as she would be living with her full time.

 

We would love nothing more for her to come with us straight away, and wouldnt ask for a penny from her mother, just pleased with the fact that we had her with us. And as a mother, cannot understand why her mother is not just pleased to have her all the time.

 

Sorry to go on, but my question is, how does it work with payments if we refused to pay? We have already said we would send our daughter money regularly, but i begrudge sending it to her mum, as she would spend it on herself! and not our daughter. Would the CSA chase us in oz for not paying her mother or what is a resonable amount to pay her to keep her sweet?

 

any ideas? Thanks

[ali]

When costs are shared 50/50 it may be a financial hardship to suddenly have to provide for a 16 year old full time. Her mother may be pleased as punch to have her daughter all the time, she's used to sharing the cost of her daughters up bringing with her ex.

 

Your OH needs to remember that he is paying to assist his daughter (not the mother), to continue to contribute to clothes, transport costs etc. If he refuses to pay and the mother turns round and says "your dad has gone off to Aus now and is refusing to give me any money so you can't go to such and such on Saturday 'cos I can't afford it (wether it's true or not), the damage will be to the father/daughter realtionship and not the mother/daughter relationship.

 

IMHO it's not about keeping the mother 'sweet' but giving a message to the daughter that despite having moved to another country and not seeing each other as regularly .... you're still there for them in every way, emotionally, financially etc.,

 

I'm not sure if the CSA can chase you in Aus ... but to be honest - is it worth the hassle if they can? I've heard that quite often the CSA will demand more money that what the informal arrangements were anyway.

 

For me .. change the focus from does your OH want to give money to his ex ... to does your OH want to continue to contribute financially for his daughter ... from your brief thread .. you sound like people who think the world of her and would love her to move to Aus with you ... not paying could damage that relationship ... I'd try to work something out so no bitterness develops for your OH and his daughter.

 

Ali x

[Guest edwardsfamily]

thanks for your reply....

 

his daughter is here tonight and not best pleased at her mothers actions! She knows her mother very well and knows its all about the money!

 

we are 100% in knowing it would not destroy any relationship we have with her and like i said, we are willing to give the money directly to her so she can do what ever she needs/wants to do, even paying for her to fly backwards and forwards etc. Also, we arent really sure until we are there and settled how much we are going to be able to afford...pretty sure our budget could be tighter than it is here. we would rather hold off until we know what we can afford, and then give her whatever we can.

 

The bottom line is i dont think her mum is pleased to have her...for 16 years she has been an "inconvieniance" to her and has only wanted to use her as a pawn. She just sees it as a finacial opportunity, and i dont want her to take advantage of it.

 

Just when things were going smoothly!...she signed her visa forms quick enough!!!

[Guest guest33730]

Look at this link - it may help

 

Maintenance payments: Child Support Agency Assessments: When do payments under a Child Support Agency assessment end?

 

Daniel

[Guest edwardsfamily]

thanks....have had a look at the CSA website and it seems to say that for the CSA to work out an agreement, both parents must live in the uk.

 

Im now wondering if thats why she is mentioning it now, as our move is imminent

 

anyone else with any ideas? or personal experiences?........

[Guest edwardsfamily]

BTW....

 

We definately want to contribute...always have done, just want to make sure she gets the money, not her mother!

and by the way....leaving her is the most heart breaking thing i have ever had to do in my life I have tears now just thinking about it....

[Guest guest33730]

It's a difficult one but looking at it from a distance I would say there probably are some things that should be contributed to by both parents equally and if you are no longer sharing the costs of your daughter by having her stay with you then maybe you should be helping towards those expenses i.e. clothes, heating, lighting, food etc. I'm not sure that giving the money directly to the daughter would mean that these things are paid for.

 

I can understand how paying money to the mother might stick in someones throat but she does seem to me (on face value) to have a point.

 

Maybe agree a minimal amount to cover those basics which you will pay to the mother with the balance going straight to the daughter. The law may or may not mean you have to pay money but as you have stated you want to then this could be the best option.

 

Daniel

[Parley]

I don't think you have much of a choice.

She is after all a child and the parents always receive child support for the upkeep of the child.

 

Unless you could prove the mother was spending vast sums on drugs, alcohol or gambling I don't think you will have much of a leg to stand on.

Generally it is expected that child support will fund general things such as rent, mortgage, food, clothing, holidays etc which are for the benefit of the child.

 

I think you just have to put up with it until your daughter turns 18 (only 2 years) and then you can start giving her some money directly.

[Guest edwardsfamily]

thanks but it would be 19 years old as she is remaining in full time education.

 

i understand what your saying.....

[Parley]

If you feel that strongly about it, you could delay your move to Aus until she has finished school and then maybe she might even want to come with you.

 

But she is your husbands responsibility to support.

 

BTW. You might be in the same situation one day (reversed) and your view may then be quite different.

[Guest The Pom Queen]

Hi Aimie

I have to agree with Ali in that if the mother has had help- raising the daughter all these years and now she is expected to pay for everything it probably has come as a shock. I understand you saying you don't want to give the money to the mother as she would spend it on herself, so before the CSA get involved why don't you offer to pay your daughter ex amount per week in to HER bank account which she can use to buy herself clothes etc As at her age she would probably prefer buying the clothes herself than having mum buy them.

[Guest edwardsfamily]

like i said, i understand what your saying, and that was what we planned to do, to give it to our daughter directly...just wanted to know if anyone had experience of it themselves and where we would stand legally?

 

can i just say i wont find myself in that position, as her mother left her at 3 years old to have an affair....something i would never do!

 

and also, my husband is 45 in april so its now or never and our daughter fully understands that.

 

and she does want to come now, and her mother has signed consent for her to come, she just wants to finish her education in uk....

 

why's it so tough....ive cried myself to sleep last night

[Paul1Perth]

I'm sure it will all turn out for the best in the end. Once you are on your way and looking forward to a new life it will give you something else to focus on. Think about the rest of the family and what is best for you and them in the long term.

 

I would say don't spend so much time on Skype, facebook and the like once you are here, otherwise it will be almost like trying to live in England but being here and not seeing what a good place you have come to.

 

It's hard to explain but I've met a couple of families over the last couple of years who have arrived here and because everyone now feels that they have to be sending messages to people they know all the time and be available almost 24 x7 they never seem to relax and see what is round them.

 

It might be a sign of me getting old but it really winds me up that people go out together for a drink, meal or whatever and spend half of the time (at least) on their mobiles/laptops to people not there. The art of conversation with people you're with is slowly disappearing. Some of the people I've spoken to complain of being bored here and say what their friends in the UK are up to. When you dig a bit deeper it's usually the case that they've spent so much time on the computer, phone, whatever keeping up with their friends in the UK that they've forgotten to get a life here and meet new friends.

 

Sorry to go off topic a bit and best of luck with your dillema.

Perths great.

[Parley]

I have never heard of an arrangement where child support is paid to the child rather than the custodial parent.

If the custodial parent agreed it might be ok, but I think it extremely unlikely that she would agree.

 

Have you read through the information on the CSA website ?

It is very comprehensive

[Guest lynne underwood]

like i said, i understand what your saying, and that was what we planned to do, to give it to our daughter directly...just wanted to know if anyone had experience of it themselves and where we would stand legally?

 

can i just say i wont find myself in that position, as her mother left her at 3 years old to have an affair....something i would never do!

 

and also, my husband is 45 in april so its now or never and our daughter fully understands that.

 

and she does want to come now, and her mother has signed consent for her to come, she just wants to finish her education in uk....

 

why's it so tough....ive cried myself to sleep last night

 

Hi,

 

we were in a similiar situation when we moved here re.maintenance...you know you are better off agreeing a sum with the Mum as the child will be living with her and maintenance is within her rights as she will be housing feeding clothing the child...and it doesnt really matter if the mother cares etc its the law. The daughter might think her Mum is being a money grabber but at 16 does she really understand all the implications. BTW the mum can contact the CSA in Oz no problems have a friend here and her hubbys ex tracked him down from UK:jiggy: now they are linked to the CSA and every year he is assessed and every year it goes up according to his earnings..so agree now swallow it up and save a lot of pain later...u want to enjoy Oz hey!! and its only for 3 years..good luck with ur move xx

[Guest TaniaandRob]

If I were you I'd agree on what you can to keep Mum happy in the short term - get yourselves set up in Oz and then see if your OH's daughter might change her mind about going with you once she sees how nice it is in Oz. She might want to focus on her education and I know in the UK they emphasise not missing any school but I can also assure you that if she continued her schooling in Oz she would not be disadvantaged. Perhaps get her over for a holiday, make sure she gets to see around local schools and meets a few peers and you never know she might just change her mind and come stay with you and problem over cash to her Mum is solved. I moved schools at her age and it is tough but in the long run it was worth it. Good Luck! :wubclub:

[Guest china]

I know this is slightly off topic, but if your daughter is planning on moving to aus to be with you eventually, as someone who moved schools at 16, surely she would be better off moving now, and making some friends, as it might be harder at 18/19 years old to meet as many people her own age once everyone is off doing jobs/uni etc. It's worth putting to her - she may not want to leave her friends or school yet, but it might help her settle in better in the long run - just my humble (nosey) opinion! Good luck with everything x

[mickyb]

I sympathise with you but think your best off paying the mother . Maybe you could pay bit into the daughters account as well to make sure she's ok for girl things and the like.

[Guest edwardsfamily]

thanks for all the replies....its a tough one i know!

 

what we are really after is if anyone has experience of amounts to pay? whats a resonable offer to put to her mum?

 

i suppose my real issue is that its almost like her mum is putting a price on her to have her, and as a mum, i find it unbelievable and a horrible thing to do.

 

thanks again!

[Guest SunshineSmile]

thanks for all the replies....its a tough one i know!

 

what we are really after is if anyone has experience of amounts to pay? whats a resonable offer to put to her mum?

 

i suppose my real issue is that its almost like her mum is putting a price on her to have her, and as a mum, i find it unbelievable and a horrible thing to do.

 

thanks again!

 

Hi there,

 

I have experience in your dilemma from both sides of the fence, and I think the long and the short of it is that it doesnt really matter what you think of her Mum (shes her daughter) you have to respect her and paying maintenance for his daughter is not only the right thing for your husband to do but also the right of her Mother to be supported. How she spends that money is really irrelevant to you both, because at the end of the day she will still have to feed her daughter and put a roof over her head. But believe me, I know its tough to swallow.

Also do be aware that children of 16 are extremely adept at "playing for both teams" they do it so as not to upset either parent.

You both are in a difficult situation and I feel for you, as I said, I have been both sides of the fence.

I would suggest that the normal maintenance expectancy is based on salary so its difficult for me to give you a figure.. An amount that you can easily afford without appearing mean would be well recieved by her Mother and prevent alot of potential arguing.. Not good for the teenager to witness.. its more fuel for her to play the game. Please dont be offended by that, but do be aware that the sweetest of children will play their parents like a fine violin in order to get their own way. Part and parcel of being a teen!

Ballpark figure could be 50-100 pounds per week? You will have to calculate what you can afford. You could try looking up the social welfare website?, they might have a section on expected maintenance costs.. I know the courts here in Ireland have set amounts according to Fathers income and they do give guidelines on this, if you had something similar in the Uk it will help you suggest a fair amount.

 

The very best of luck :hug:

[Carlos fandango]

thanks for all the replies....its a tough one i know!

 

what we are really after is if anyone has experience of amounts to pay? whats a resonable offer to put to her mum?

 

i suppose my real issue is that its almost like her mum is putting a price on her to have her, and as a mum, i find it unbelievable and a horrible thing to do.

 

thanks again!

 

The going rate would be 15% of your (the non-resident parents) net monthly wage........(not including the non resident parents partner/wife)......as would be the case if CSA were involved.......

[Parley]

There is a calculator on the CSA website.

 

As an example if the custodial parent has 100% access.

 

Based on a 40000 salary of husband and with 2 other children in your household

Child Support works out at 240 pds per week.

 

I know it is a lot of money.

 

 

https://secureonline.dwp.gov.uk/csa/v2/en/calculate-maintenance.asp

[Parley]

Actually I mucked that up. Its not that bad.

I put in an annual salary but you use a weekly salary.

 

120 pounds per week is the result

You need to put in your husbands weekly salary to work it out

[Pumpkin]

thanks for all the replies....its a tough one i know!

 

what we are really after is if anyone has experience of amounts to pay? whats a resonable offer to put to her mum?

 

i suppose my real issue is that its almost like her mum is putting a price on her to have her, and as a mum, i find it unbelievable and a horrible thing to do.

 

thanks again!

 

I don't think it is that tough to be honest.

 

I expect you have never been a single mother, if you were you might change your mind about whether it is horrible to expect the child's father to contribute and whether, if you did, this would mean you were putting a price on your child's head. Sorry to be blunt but I think it would be beneficial to take a few moments to see from the other side.

 

You seem to be demonising the poor woman, if she were that bad I assume her daughter would even be contemplating staying behind and if she were such a money grabber she could have taken you to the CSA a long time ago.

 

I am not sure why you have a problem to be honest, you have clearly always done the right thing and contributed to her upbringing, why would it change now? It is just the form of the assistance that needs to change and that is because of a decision that you have made not her mother.

 

As this has always been managed informally in the past, maybe it can again and maybe you need to discuss with the mother what might be an agreeable sum for both sides. I agree with those that say this needs to be paid to mother, the daughter is hardly going to spend it on groceries, utilities, school uniform etc.

[Guest edwardsfamily]

thank you very much to those of you that have posted constructive and helpful replies....we really appreciate it and will use all the advice given

 

to those of you that have posted opinions, i didnt ask for that. None of you live in our situation or understand the reality of it. Whilst you are entitled to your opinion, we would be grateful if you did not voice it where it was not asked for...not only is this very upsetting in an already stressful situation, it is clearly a situation you know very little about except the small amount i have written.

 

i could go on but we have had the advice we asked for, and therefore do not feel the need to continually justify ourselves or or our actions to strangers.

 

All you need to know is that i love our daughter more than life itself and this is the most difficult thing we have ever had to do and thanks to a few unkind, unthoughtful people on here, has just been made even more heart wrenching.

 

for that reason....i think i will sign off PIO for a while