Guest whattodo Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 after speaking to my ex he verbally agreed that i could take the children to aus, now he has changed his mind before i managed to get him to sign a stat dec!! :sad: What do i do now?? really didnt want to put us all through the court route but may have no choice, i have read some posts on hear by people in similar positions, anyone got any advice? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 I wouldn't presume to offer advice on the rights and wrongs of the situation - the needs of the children should be uppermost in everyone's mind. But the one piece of advice would be to sort this out without courts - lawyers are expensive and they will take money away that could have been spent on the children. Sort it out amongst yourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest whattodo Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 i really am trying to do that, the kids have a goodish relationship with their dad, they see him most weekends for an overnight stay, but they also really want to move to aus, as much as myself and oh do. we have been to aus before and all loved it, i know living there is different but we havent gone into this with blinkers on! We have talked through everything with the kids ie schools, jobs, leaving family (that none of us are really close to) and friends and they still want to go, now he is saying no. Its not like they are babies they are both teenagers who know their own minds, if they were unsure then i wouldnt have even got as far as speaking to their dad but they want to go!!! :arghh: i have spoken with an migration agent who said that we can put our application in as we wont need the stat dec till probably nine months down the line, so hopefully he will change his mind by then, fingers crossed. None of us want to go the court route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIRK AND CO Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Sorry to say but if I was the dad & had been a regular dad to them (been there through bad & good times no matter what) then I would fight tooth & nail for them. Your situation I know nothing of so I am not judgeing you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest whattodo Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 i have told the kids what has now happened and they are both gutted, he told them both that he would not stop them if it was what they wanted, so to now tell them no! we have offered to set him and the kids with skype, email, flights back for 3 weeks each year and also to put him up in Aus if he wanted to visit. I know its not the same as them being here but surley what they want should count aswell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 I don't know how old your kids are or if it'd be possible for you to do this, but I think I'd try and wait until the kids are old enough so they wouldn't need their fathers consent to leave the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIRK AND CO Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 i have told the kids what has now happened and they are both gutted, he told them both that he would not stop them if it was what they wanted, so to now tell them no! we have offered to set him and the kids with skype, email, flights back for 3 weeks each year and also to put him up in Aus if he wanted to visit. I know its not the same as them being here but surley what they want should count aswell? What would you do if it was the other way round ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest whattodo Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 I don't know how old your kids are or if it'd be possible for you to do this, but I think I'd try and wait until the kids are old enough so they wouldn't need their fathers consent to leave the country. they are 15 and 13 and by the time we actually get visas they could be 17 and 15, by that time if we end up down the court route surely what they want will count for something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest whattodo Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 What would you do if it was the other way round ? as much as i would want them to be with me i would honestly have to consider their feelings aswell, as hard as that would be. i understand where you are coming from but from what their dad is saying he is thinking more about his feelings that what the children also want. If they had given me any idea that they weren't sure then we wouldn't have even spoken to him about it yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SunshineSmile Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Hi there, I have been in your situation so i can understand how you are feeling. My daughter was 14 when I approached her Father.. he gave a flat no and said he wanted her to stay here to finish her education (i know him well enough to know that her education was not the issue) I spoke to a solicitor who told me it could potentially take quite some time and money to get the courts to make a decision. Most likely you would be able to take them, and at their ages the courts apparently do take their feelings into consideration, but it requires alot of hard work with paperwork, not to mention the mental strain of it all on everyone involved. I spoke to my daughter and we decided to respect his wishes and wait. That was 3 years ago, she finishes her exams this Friday and we should be gone before her 18th birthday in November. Its up to you if you want to go the court route, but he is their Father and you really should try to see how painful this must be for him? Im not passing judgement, im just urging you to think this through very carefully, it could cause alot of emotional damage. If it were me, I would go all out to "persuade" him to agree... Start your research, get every last detail of the schools your children would go to.. actually produce this info.. give him a folder of all the plus things your kids would have. Tell him you will arrange to make a legal agreement for his access rights.. get it all in writing.. so he can actually SEE that you fully intend to keep him fully in the kids lives. Dont alienate him at this stage, he will kick back and things could get nasty. Be clever about this and it will be a win/win instead of you all getting emotionally upset. Arrange a family meeting with all of you to discuss it, if you can all be reasonable and listen to each other. Try not to involve the children in an adult disagreement, but i have no doubt they will speak to him about it and letting that happen naturally rather than interfering may make him soften and sign on the dotted line. Lastly, i most definately would not put through a visa application unless he agrees first. That would really p**** him off when he finds out you lodged it without his agreement. So, my advice? Try to persuade him, if not, wait another year and ask again. Hope that helps :hug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pommekate Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 My friend went through a similar thing about 7 years ago, she had two teenage boys ages 13, 15. They were going to go through the courts but the boys so desperately wanted to go the father said he was only giving his consent because he loved them so much, however after a few years when the visas all came through, the reality to the boys that they were going was too much, by then they were 15 and 17. They did feel so torn as they loved both of their parents and knew one of them was going to be upset. The father came out on the same flight as the boys to help them settle in. He was excited for them and was constantly telling them how lucky they were. However after a year the boys returned to the Uk to be with their dad. Now I am not saying this is going to be your situation. It is so tough, my aussie other half has a son (14yrs) from a previous relationship, with a canadian, but he lives here in australia, with his mother. Now his mother thought that as his canadian grandparents were getting older it would be great for her son to go and live with them for a year. Initially we though WTF, after talking to him, he was really excited about the experience and my oh made it quite clear his consent was only for one year, and if he was homesick we would pay for his flights home. My only wish was that seperated parents would discuss with each other first of any plans so that they don't use the kids as an emotional blackmail tool. I wish his ex would have said to my partner what do you think about .... going to canada, it will be a great experience he will get to know his heritage his grandparents etc, and if the other parent was to disagree, then say well we will both together discuss with him and see what he thinks. Its very tough to then make one parent the bad guy because they don't want their child to leave. Well my stepson went for a year, he is now back he loved it, we missed him, but there is no way my partner would cope if it was forever. However when my stepson is 18 we would have to trust and except his decisions and choices, and if then he decides he wants to live in Canada we would give our full support tell him how much we love him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest whattodo Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Hi there, Start your research, get every last detail of the schools your children would go to.. actually produce this info.. give him a folder of all the plus things your kids would have. Tell him you will arrange to make a legal agreement for his access rights.. get it all in writing.. so he can actually SEE that you fully intend to keep him fully in the kids lives. Dont alienate him at this stage, he will kick back and things could get nasty. Be clever about this and it will be a win/win instead of you all getting emotionally upset. Arrange a family meeting with all of you to discuss it, if you can all be reasonable and listen to each other. I have already done all of that, shown him where we want to live, what that area has to offer the kids ie out of school clubs and activities, schools they can go to, the sort of houses that we can afford, the sorts of jobs on offer for my oh. explained about how much we can put in place to ensure as much contact as possible. We dont need his consent untill the later stages of the application so we are all just hoping that by then he will see just how much the kids really want to go. WE also have to take into account we arent getting any younger and there are only a few more years that we will be eligable to apply for a visa. Its not just his future that he has the decision on ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Not sure about in the UK, but I know in Aus the Family Court takes the view that it is usually in the interest of the child to have a meaningful relationship with both parents. Taking a child overseas may not be considered as in the child's best interests, so it may be difficult to get permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Should you have to go to court you need to also indicate how the children will have a continued relationship with the absent parent. Contact, phone calls, visits etc., who will pay for the chilren to return to the UK to see thier dad? There are some members who have been through/going through the court process, it's terrribly emotional for all those involved. I have a friend who's ex allowed his daughter to come to Aus with her and her partner ... she worries that her daughter will at some point think her dad didn't love her enough to want her to stay in the UK. It sounds like your ex has a relationship with his children and it won't be easy for him to give that up without a great deal of thought and some reassurances of how he is going to see his children. Consent may be your priority, applying for the visa will cost you a fair bit of money if he continues to say No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest whattodo Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Should you have to go to court you need to also indicate how the children will have a continued relationship with the absent parent. Contact, phone calls, visits etc., who will pay for the chilren to return to the UK to see thier dad? There are some members who have been through/going through the court process, it's terrribly emotional for all those involved. I have a friend who's ex allowed his daughter to come to Aus with her and her partner ... she worries that her daughter will at some point think her dad didn't love her enough to want her to stay in the UK. It sounds like your ex has a relationship with his children and it won't be easy for him to give that up without a great deal of thought and some reassurances of how he is going to see his children. Consent may be your priority, applying for the visa will cost you a fair bit of money if he continues to say No. hi Ali, we have gone through with him how we would enable them all to maintain contact, we would buy him a laptop and skype phone, email, webcam. we are also in the position of being able to take a great deal of money with us, some us this would be put into an account (obviously we would add money to it along the way) just for the purchase of flight tickets for the children to visit for at least three weeks per year. Also we would want to be able to come back to visit with family and friends so wether they came back with us or alone they would be able to visit every year. we also offered him the use of our holiday apartment that we are able to use in Aus (bit like a timeshare). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Have you ever tried to maintain a relationship through Skype? I have, for almost two years. It is very hard work and I doubt that your children would manage. Their father knows that if you emigrate, it would be the end of his relationship with his children. You say that your children would not be leaving behind any family that are close to them - is that really how you see their father? You said you have their best interests at heart, but it sounds like you only have your own interests at heart. You say that even if your children didn't want to move you'd still be doing it, but on the sly. You are considering moving your children not just to a new school but also to a new curriculum at a crucial stage of their education - just because you may not get a visa if you wait. Frankly, you chose to have children and you should accept that this brings obligations and can limit your freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest whattodo Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Have you ever tried to maintain a relationship through Skype? I have, for almost two years. It is very hard work and I doubt that your children would manage. Their father knows that if you emigrate, it would be the end of his relationship with his children. You say that your children would not be leaving behind any family that are close to them - is that really how you see their father? You said you have their best interests at heart, but it sounds like you only have your own interests at heart. You say that even if your children didn't want to move you'd still be doing it, but on the sly. You are considering moving your children not just to a new school but also to a new curriculum at a crucial stage of their education - just because you may not get a visa if you wait. Frankly, you chose to have children and you should accept that this brings obligations and can limit your freedom. firstly you do not know my children so how can you comment on what you think they would manage? If the children did not want to go then you could say this but they do! We have no close family, no grandparents and only a couple of uncles that we see probably once a year. They see their dad one night a week, at the ages they are then he should also take into what they are saying to him, they want to go!! My obligations to my children are to ensure that they are happy, healthy both pyhsically and mentally and to give them all the opportunities in life that i can. This is not just an overnight decision for any of us. We have talked and talked about all aspects of going especially their dad, they still want to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIRK AND CO Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Have you ever tried to maintain a relationship through Skype? I have, for almost two years. It is very hard work and I doubt that your children would manage. Their father knows that if you emigrate, it would be the end of his relationship with his children. You say that your children would not be leaving behind any family that are close to them - is that really how you see their father? You said you have their best interests at heart, but it sounds like you only have your own interests at heart. You say that even if your children didn't want to move you'd still be doing it, but on the sly. You are considering moving your children not just to a new school but also to a new curriculum at a crucial stage of their education - just because you may not get a visa if you wait. Frankly, you chose to have children and you should accept that this brings obligations and can limit your freedom. This is not a thread for us to say who is wrong or right but for advice. I could under stand if the farther had typed this reply but we are not so I think you are been undualy harsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SunshineSmile Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 I wonder did he actually say to you what his reasons are for not giving consent? I know it might sound obvious but maybe he just gave a reflex NO when the actual reality that you are going hit. Why did he say yes, then suddenly no? It also sounds as if you and you oh might be in a much better financial position than he is and therefore able to give them a more affluent future, perhaps the only thing he has is the love he can give them when he sees them....? If they are gone to Oz, he cant do this. But im only speculating.. if you could really route out how he is feeling, then you could really try again to address his fears. Is he generally an easy man to deal with? Does he have a happy life himself, or are things not so great for him? Others may have a rap at me for asking those questions and for what im going to say... Could it be that he begrudges the future you and your oh can give the boys that he maybe cant? Im not implying that its better or worse than the future he could give them, Im just wondering is that the way he may be viewing things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracy123 Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Threads like this really annoy me (sorry to the OP) They are asking a question not asking is it right or wrong to take a child away, do you think people that are wanting to take a child away hasn't thought of everything about a move and the cost involved (nothing to do with money btw) Going to court takes a lot out on everyone concerned, yes the other parent has the right to fight and so they should but not every parent will fight for the right reasons either...... People asking about the other parent in most cases you are not helping, I know myself it's so fustrating, do you think we are thick? Sorry to the OP btw I've started a thread up a little while ago that you may find interesting it needs up dating though as we have all just been through the CAFCASS interview Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SunshineSmile Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Threads like this really annoy me (sorry to the OP) They are asking a question not asking is it right or wrong to take a child away, do you think people that are wanting to take a child away hasn't thought of everything about a move and the cost involved (nothing to do with money btw) Going to court takes a lot out on everyone concerned, yes the other parent has the right to fight and so they should but not every parent will fight for the right reasons either...... People asking about the other parent in most cases you are not helping, I know myself it's so fustrating, do you think we are thick? Sorry to the OP btw I've started a thread up a little while ago that you may find interesting it needs up dating though as we have all just been through the CAFCASS interview Sorry if I offended you.. I do not think you or the OP are thick. I have been thru the same dilemmas and am not here to judge or annoy anyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Threads like this really annoy me (sorry to the OP) They are asking a question not asking is it right or wrong to take a child away, do you think people that are wanting to take a child away hasn't thought of everything about a move and the cost involved (nothing to do with money btw) Going to court takes a lot out on everyone concerned, yes the other parent has the right to fight and so they should but not every parent will fight for the right reasons either...... People asking about the other parent in most cases you are not helping, I know myself it's so fustrating, do you think we are thick? Sorry to the OP btw I've started a thread up a little while ago that you may find interesting it needs up dating though as we have all just been through the CAFCASS interview No I don't think people are thick Geoff ... but, the OP asked what do I do ... and understanding her ex's change of heart is something to consider and to try to find out ... because knowing that may allow them to communicate and try to work it out to avoid the court process. (which is what the gist of some of the replies are in addition to gathering more information). Often people ask about the OH in an effort to further understand the situation and therefore perhaps it may help them offer more/better advice. Call it an occupational hazard but in my job the first things you hear are only part of the full picture and more information and facts allows you to offer more realistic options. I accept that some people will not be thinking of their children when they say no ... but inflicting a bit more trouble on their ex ... but we also have to be mindful about all the genuine men and woman out there who want to continue to see their kids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIRK AND CO Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Threads like this really annoy me (sorry to the OP) They are asking a question not asking is it right or wrong to take a child away, do you think people that are wanting to take a child away hasn't thought of everything about a move and the cost involved (nothing to do with money btw) Going to court takes a lot out on everyone concerned, yes the other parent has the right to fight and so they should but not every parent will fight for the right reasons either...... People asking about the other parent in most cases you are not helping, I know myself it's so fustrating, do you think we are thick? Sorry to the OP btw I've started a thread up a little while ago that you may find interesting it needs up dating though as we have all just been through the CAFCASS interview Why not asking about other parent not helping ??? is it not part of the sum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FedUp Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 I'm sorry to say that if the dad had been in a regular contact with the kids then you have no chance to get a court approval. So better not waste your money on solicitors. The best way to deal with it is to get the dad to sign a Stat Dec and provide a certified copy of his passport to come with it. Honestly, if he sees his children almost every weekend then he indeed loves them and it'd be hard for him to let them go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zara283 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Hi there I don't know if you are still on this or will read this reply. I'm going through a situation at the mo I want to take my 5yr old to OZ. I have yet to ask his dad for permission, which I am delibarating over when I tell him & how I tell him. I know he is going to be the same as your ex & I know he will try & make it as hard as possible for me. He does see our son once a fortnight for two nights. And my theory was more or less the same as your's offer him the use of keeping in contact with our son via skype, e-mails etc & say to him that the CSA he pays me to use that & save it for either flights for our son to come home once a year for several weeks or for him to fly out to see our son. Some people say Skype is hard & doesn't work & isn't the same. They are right but I have friends that use Skype mainly as their point of connection my friend is here & his family in Poland, which is not as far as OZ but he gets to see his family properly for maybe twice a year & it is something that he has come to accept as his children are comfortable there & he here. It is the most difficult of situations to be in & everyone has different views of the situation. The age at which your children are at they are able to make their own decisions & if they want to go their dad should accept that. If he stops them now at this age it is something they will not forget. If he lets them go & encourages them to a good life there they will respect & love him for supporting them & they will know he is there for them if they wish to return. Every case is different, every family is different. I wish you all luck & hope you manage to sort things out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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