Should we stay or should we go?

[Guest lottiep]

Hi,

 

Just need help clarifying things in my mind.... head and heart are having a battle!

 

Story so far: Came to Melbourne 5 years ago with my Aussie husband and in that time have had a daughter, renovated house, started business etc and everything is.........fine. I just find I haven't settled here.....I always feel slightly off kilter, slightly removed.....I guess it's just not my land.

 

I know the UK is cold, dark, having a bad recession, with small houses, violence etc......but I really miss it. We have been home 3 times and when we land at grimy, grey, Heathrow...... peace.

 

But, while I may find Australia not for me, I know I'm in the minority.....and I understand that. On paper it has everything. The question is, although I know in my heart of hearts I want to go home (and hubbie is happy too as well), is it the best thing to do for my daughter? Should I stick it out here? Is the UK really that bad? It gets such a bad rap here, but I find people much, much friendlier and not as superficial as in Oz. I miss being myself but for my little girl I would do anything and if she will have a better life here then we will stay. Did anyone leave OZ because they didn't like it and then realise the UK was worse? Or better??

 

Thanks for your help....sorry it was so long!

[Guest The Pom Queen]

Hi

I am sorry to hear your dilemma, but personally I feel that if both yourself and your husband are happy to return to the UK then this may be the best for your daughter to!!! At the end of the day your daughter wants two happy parents and as long as you all have each other and are happy does it really matter where abouts in the world you are?

As you have been here for 5 years and have an aussie husband have you got citizenship if so then if the Uk doesn't work out you can always come back to Oz.

Good luck and I hope your future works out for you all.

Kate

[Stuju]

Hi,

Firstly, of all the aussies i have spoken to that have been to the uk & are returning there again, i have never heard one say a bad word about the place, they all seem to enjoy it cause its so buzzing & fast - so dont let what anyone says to you about oz or uk put you off.

 

You sound as almost as if you are asking for some one to say "Yes" its alright for you to go back to the uk & yes it is if thats what you want.

You are your oh are the only ones who can make that choice, you can only take on board ideas & experiences form other people.

 

I too would be the first to jump on the big white bird back home, but unfortunatley certain things dont allow us too at the moment, as gloomy & bad as the uk is made out to be it is what i know, what i miss & where i want to be.

 

You sound that you have done very well for yourselfs here in oz what with the business, house etc but you could have this again - ok due to things not so good back home at the mo it may take a little time but its not impossible.

As for your daughter i assume she would have dual citizenship & would be able to come & go as she pleases.

To be honest i think she would be better off where her mum & dad are happiest.

If your heart is somewhere you want to be then perhaps thats where you should be too. You never know whats round the next corner in this life so grab theh chance of happiness while you can

I hope it all works out for you & keep us posted

All the best

stuju :-)

[Pingpongpom2]

Hi

I am sorry to hear your dilemma, but personally I feel that if both yourself and your husband are happy to return to the UK then this may be the best for your daughter to!!! At the end of the day your daughter wants two happy parents and as long as you all have each other and are happy does it really matter where abouts in the world you are?

As you have been here for 5 years and have an aussie husband have you got citizenship if so then if the Uk doesn't work out you can always come back to Oz.

Good luck and I hope your future works out for you all.

Kate

 

i think you are spot on Kate.. you sound like you have done well here and given it a real go..i have heard from other people exactly what you have voiced..my Auntie has been here for nearly 40 years and her heart has always been in England..for her it would not be a possibility to go back, as her children and grandchildren are all here..your still at a time where you have the choice to come and go with your daughter..we have two children in the UK and two here, so these choices can eventually split families..we have ping ponged a couple of times and our children were at an age where they preferred to stay in England..another thing to consider is even though you don't feel completely settled and will always have your heart in England, when you start to come and go it can leave you feeling unsetted in both places..Aus may not be for you, but it may have captured a small part of you now you've been here for a while..these things change people and you are no doubt different people to when you left England..for one your daughter is Australian and that will always have an effect on your lives..i hope you can make a decision which leaves you peaceful and content..take care and keep us up to date..

Tess:cute:

[Guest lottiep]

Thanks for the replies. I think you are right when you say I am looking for permission to go back! I'm just thinking there must be something wrong with me.......because most people seem to love it here and I honestly don't get it. However, if it all goes wrong back in the UK, we all have dual citizenship and you're right, maybe Australia has taken a bit of my heart.....Argghhh, when will life be simple!

[Quoll]

Nothing wrong with you sweetie, not a thing.

 

I have been here 30 years in March this year, also married to an Aussie who wont go home with me and believe me, I have come to hate the place even though my head knows it is a nice place. My heart just doesnt belong here and I doubt at this stage it ever will. I go home every year and when I can see us flying over the coast and up the Thames all is right with the world. I am the insane idiot grinning from ear to ear on the rush hour tube with a big backpack.

 

It all feels so "right" to be with my community, my friends and my family. Being married to an Aussie isnt easy - I think we tend to underestimate that. I am here all on my own, with just him and the kids. He is here with his family, his friends and his heritage and sometimes I really resent that. His family are lovely and we live 10 hours drive away from them but they are HIS family, not mine. I have friends but only a couple of them are the call at 3am kind of friends the others are like casual coffee see you once a year kind of friends.

 

One of our sons lives in UK now - went home for a gap year and hasnt bothered to come back except for a holiday to clear out his bedroom! He loves the buzz and has a good career. As his girlfriend is a died in the wool Londoner I dont fancy his chances of getting her here to live even though she says she will come - she would shrivel up here if she couldnt go shopping in Selfridges.

 

Millions of kids grow up successfully in UK every year with good education standards and leading into good jobs - all my friends' kids are at least as successful if not more so than mine (my other one is weird and Aussie though, he lives in the bush with his family being self sufficient - duh!). The "better life for the kids" thing is a red herring - it is the people in kids' lives that make their lives rich and fulfilling not the pool or the McMansion.

 

We are pretty much past the point of no return although I occasionally get a glimmer that we really could make ends meet in UK. All useless though, he wont go anyway and says he would be unhappy there - doesnt seem to bother him that some mornings I struggle to get out of bed because the overwhelming thought is OMG I am still here! I survive though, I have lots of tricks in my toolbox!!! I could even leave my granddaughter although it would be hard - they have their own lives they dont get too entanlged with ours.

 

So, dont let yourself get like me - if you want to stay, then stay. If you want to go, then go but make the decision and make it often. Evaluate every year or two - am I happy doing this? Is this where I want to end my days?

 

All the very best with what you decide, I am sure you will make the best decision for yourself and your family.

[Guest Deb62]

Hi Lottie;

 

I could identify so much with what you posted. I understand your feelings, you're not alone. It is hard to adopt a new country and make it yours, you seem to never quite belong. I will share some of my story with you as I am another 'pingpong pom'. When we came to Australia (Brisbane) in 1989 I found it very difficult. My husband is an Aussie and we had 2 young children. It took a long time for me to settle, but I did eventually find a community to be a part of and I felt I belonged for awhile. Then a number of negative things happened to us and I felt very alone. We had a 3rd child and I got very homesick and we came back to UK in 1998. We ended up in a 18th century cottage in a Somerset village living the rural idyll, and with good schools. At first I was euphoric to be 'home', but after the excitement wore off I realized I was alone. The countryside and house and external things were great, but I had difficulty making friends. We have been here for 10 years now. I know most of the people in the village to stop and say g'day. I have a couple of real friends. But I miss my australian friends no end. I miss Australians. I also found them shallow when we were first there but eventually made some really good friends and we are still in touch, and when I came back last march for a few weeks it was like I'd never been away. It was hard to leave people to come back here.

Our eldest daughter left for Brisbane in Nov 2007 to go to University of Queensland. She was 11 when we came back here, but says she was homesick fo Oz the whole time. I feel I have perpetuated the pain I and my family had at being separated into the next generation by coming back to the UK.

It took some time, but the longer I have been back here the more things I miss about Queensland. Australia has captured some of my heart. I really want to go back now, and we are trying to do so. But I think I needed to come back and live here in order to sort out what I really want, what is important to me.

I think the clincher for me was taking my youngest back to visit her sister last year. She was born in Australia but came here at 8mths and has never been back. She was overwhelmed by how happy Australians are. she picked it up immediately and took a couple of days to be able to verbalize it but she says the English are so much more miserable and people in brisbane are always happy and smiling. I think she's right. And I think it is important.

Additionally, we happen to have academically gifted children (don't know how, are they really ours?) and the older two were totally stressed by the exam system that put pressure on them for so many years doing SAT's, GCSE's and AS's that they both burned out before they took their A2's. The system here is brutal. Australia gives them time to be kids IMO.

This is just my story, of my family, and everyone is different. You cannot know at this point what effect staying or going will have on your particular family. For years I have felt guilty that coming back here has had a negative effect on my family, but I am coming to understand that there are positives, that it is something that I needed to do at the time, and now I am ready to go back.

Only you can decide with your family what is right to do and it won't be an easy decision. Use your head and your heart together. My heart goes out to you,

Deb:hug:

[The Ozcans]

Great post Deb62

 

Lottiep - I think if you have close family and friends who you would be living near to in Uk then that is a 'quality' you could bring to your child's life.

It sounds as though you have got things really sorted in your life in Oz. I agree with Deb 62's comments about school. And I certainly don't want my kids to be teenagers in this country.

Maybe the feelings you're having are normal feelings every immigrant has about their homeland. And so maybe you just have to come back every couple of years to satisfy those feelings.

Good luck

Hope you feel more sorted soon.

 

Sue x

[Guest lottiep]

All the advice has been really thoughful and well written....... and has made me realise that I won't be happy with just a trip every year to the UK and then living in limbo the rest of the time. I just don't fit here!

[Guest brisbane-lee]

All the advice has been really thoughful and well written....... and has made me realise that I won't be happy with just a trip every year to the UK and then living in limbo the rest of the time. I just don't fit here!

 

Hi

We came to Brisbane in April 2002 then went back to the uk 5 months later because i didn't like it here. Well the other half wasn't happy with going back to England so 6 months after that, we came back to Brisbane again. I wasn't happy this time but made a go of it and since then have moved to a nice area and have a nice house that i know i wouldn't be able to afford back in the uk. I have a job that i like, the kids love school, the weather is great (apart from the summer) and life is pretty easy.

 

BUT GOD I'M BORED!! :arghh:

 

We go back every year for 3/4 weeks to see everyone and do all the things that we miss. That helps a lot but it also makes you feel that you are missing out on things by being so far away. Lets face it....Brisbane is a growing city and that makes it kind of exciting to live here but it still seems a bit backward. Every few months we talk about moving back to England but having done it before, we know the upheaval involved so we stop ourselves. Sometimes i ask myself if we didn't have children would we move back, the answer would be yes. But we do, so we have to decide very carefully. We know here is better for children, in regards to outdoor activities anyway, but they will grow up and we will get older. We (the OH and i) also have to think about us. Do we want to end our days here? Erm....no. Well this year we go back to England for a month to see if we really want to move back there. I don't expect the decision to be easy but i do hope we can make one.

 

So maybe you should go back for a month or longer to make your mind up. It is such a hassle to move back...make sure it is a one way trip if you do it.

 

Lee

[anlopa]

Get 4 small boxes label then U.K god U.K bad Aus good Aus Bad. In a week revisit the box and your answer will be their.

sounds simple but if the whole family takes part you will find everyone opens up and you will get true feelings in the boxes.

My best friend emigrated 15 years ago she returned to the U.K for a visit after 5 years and she hated the place. she found it over populated everywhere she went. she soon got back on the silver bird and I've not seen her since.

 

Good luck in what ever you do.

[docboat]

As long as someone says they are going back "home", wherever that is, then they have never really made Australia their home, and if Australia is not your home, then you do not belong here. You might be here 30+ years, but as long as you regard somewhere else as "home", then you are in a foreign land. That is a simple reality.

 

I used to live in Hong Kong. I met many expats who "went home" for each summer, so they were never at home in HK. We, on the other hand, were at home in HK. Come time to retire, after many years, they went "home" .... and lo! Their "home" was different to the holiday destination they visited each year. Some hated it, and ended up at home nowhere. Get your mind straight about where you really want to be.

 

So the answer is - go home. There may be problems, you may hate certain aspects of home, but home is home, and you belong where your heart is.

 

For those who are still thinking about emigrating - make the decision to move your home, not just your house. Get into the habit of calling your new house your "home". If you do not do that, then you will always be a foreigner, and your integration into a new home will either fail, or take a long time to realise.

[Guest proud2beaussie]

Hi there,

In one of your posts you say

However, if it all goes wrong back in the UK, we all have dual citizenship

and I'm afraid ,and I certainly don't wish to appear unkind here,that sounds like a copout,I can understand completely that although you have done well here that you still feel "out of kilter" and I can understand that you are having a hard time deciding what is best for you and your daughter,but I just think that saying "if it all goes wrong back in the UK, we all have dual citizenship " means that you would be prepared to uproot your life AGAIN!,with all the logistics and expense,if you felt "out of kilter" in the UK! I hope I am not sounding rude here because I certainly don't mean to be,I just think that you need to do as a previous poster suggested,start calling your house your home,if you don't feel able to call Australia your home,if you just think of it as your current place of residency,then maybe you will feel happier in the UK,but I think you need to examine your attitudes to life,work out what you really value in life,and if Australia does not offer those valus then it's up to you to make the decision,but please think carefully before you decide to go back to the UK,Australia has a lot to offer,but you need to be sure what you are looking for.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[Guest Deb62]

Hi there,

'you would be prepared to uproot your life AGAIN!,with all the logistics and expense,if you felt "out of kilter" in the UK!'

 

Hi, I think sometimes this is exactly what you have to do before you're really convinced where you want to be. Yes it's expensive, yes it's a lot of work, but if you finally end up with a decision you know is right for you instead of always wondering it's probably worth it. I did call australia home for a number of years, but when I got homesick England really did become 'home'. Only I find I am definately 'out of kilter' with the UK, though it took me quite some time to appreciate and accept that, and when I went back to Oz for a few weeks it so felt like home. Now I know where I want to be, and it's not here!

Life's a journey, not a destination, and sometimes we need to explore a bit.

Deb

[Guest t'n'g]

Hi there,

'you would be prepared to uproot your life AGAIN!,with all the logistics and expense,if you felt "out of kilter" in the UK!'

 

Hi, I think sometimes this is exactly what you have to do before you're really convinced where you want to be. Yes it's expensive, yes it's a lot of work, but if you finally end up with a decision you know is right for you instead of always wondering it's probably worth it. I did call australia home for a number of years, but when I got homesick England really did become 'home'. Only I find I am definately 'out of kilter' with the UK, though it took me quite some time to appreciate and accept that, and when I went back to Oz for a few weeks it so felt like home. Now I know where I want to be, and it's not here!

Life's a journey, not a destination, and sometimes we need to explore a bit.

Deb

 

If only without the emotions hey!!!

[Guest t'n'g]

Its funny though what if you feel you have two homes one in oz and one in uk! we live/lived in oz for 6 years before moving back through work last year, now been back 9 months. Even though we are in rented accommodation without our furniture i also consider this home. The kids are in a great primary school in my opinion better than the one they were in in Oz. Probably due to this one being alot smaller and friendlier. my family are here and friends, but also have some great friends in oz a house,car etc..

My 11 year old stopped speaking to me yesterday as she does not want to go back is having a sleepover birthday party at a friends house tonight so has made a nice group of friends. My third child who is 4 has decided he is going to hide under his cousins bed so i cant find him to take him back to oz!!

I know life is for living and all that and you should give it a try or you will never know and i do believe in that but sometimes do you ever think if only i hadnt.......

By the way on a happier note am going to london next week to do my citizenship test!!!

[Guest reloindex120]

Frankly speaking for me there is no better place than UK to live the life. So i think you should stay at UK.

[Guest lottiep]

Thanks for all the advice everyone, even the 'cop out' Nigelinoz! I think Deb62 is right and I will have to go back home to work out where home is......although if I'm honest, I think it's the UK......I love my green, green land! Like one of the other posters said, we have everything for a nice life in Oz....but God, I'm bored.

[Guest earlswood]

As long as someone says they are going back "home", wherever that is, then they have never really made Australia their home, and if Australia is not your home, then you do not belong here. You might be here 30+ years, but as long as you regard somewhere else as "home", then you are in a foreign land. That is a simple reality.

 

I used to live in Hong Kong. I met many expats who "went home" for each summer, so they were never at home in HK. We, on the other hand, were at home in HK. Come time to retire, after many years, they went "home" .... and lo! Their "home" was different to the holiday destination they visited each year. Some hated it, and ended up at home nowhere. Get your mind straight about where you really want to be.

 

So the answer is - go home. There may be problems, you may hate certain aspects of home, but home is home, and you belong where your heart is.

 

For those who are still thinking about emigrating - make the decision to move your home, not just your house. Get into the habit of calling your new house your "home". If you do not do that, then you will always be a foreigner, and your integration into a new home will either fail, or take a long time to realise.

 

 

Cannot agree….I have a couple of Aussie mates that live here and do not want to go back but still call Australia “home”when we had a chat last week one said "we would be in the surf now if we were back home" I also know a South African who always refers to Africa as home……where you were born and brought up will always be your “real” home no matter where you travel.

[docboat]

I have been an expat kid all my life. Met people like you say, Earlswood - and I bet, when the chips are down, they will go home. If they have made home elsewhere, and "home" is a nostalgic memory, when they do go back home, they find it is all changed, and they are no longer home. Tragic for some. but hey, this not a rule writ in stone, just an observation of what appears common experience. My grandad always used to say "home is where you hang your hat", and I kind of agree with that.

[Burnett]

I've read many of Quoll's posts both here an in another forum, and I relate very much.

 

Like Quoll, I've been in Australia many years. For most of them, I told myself I'd be back in UK by this age .. then by that age .. on and on. Now though, it's looking as if I'll die here. I'm trying to reconcile myself to that and ask myself why should it matter.

 

Speaking of 'going home' and what 'home' means, etc. has reminded me of a tv programme I watched last year. It's stayed in my mind .. very touching. And brave.

 

It concerned an elderly woman. All her large family live here in Australia and externally, she said, she'd made sure to always appear settled, happy, contented.

 

Then, when in her late 70s or possibly early 80s, she upped and returned to the UK ... alone.

 

When the tv crew caught up with her, she was living alone in a little English village. Her health wasn't great, but she was up and about and they filmed her at the churchyard.

 

When asked why she'd returned to England on her own, she said she wanted to die and be buried at home. Simple as that. She pointed to the headstones in the graveyard and said these were her family .. her ancestors. She hadn't seen her parents and extended family since migrating to Australia many decades before. But they were here, in this graveyard. And she intended to be buried amongst them when her time came. I was in tears by this point.

 

The tv crew asked about her family in Australia .. her children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, daughters and sons in law, friends, etc. She replied that of course she missed them. But, she said .. they all had their lives ahead of them. She'd done her best for them. They were all successful and happy. She'd done her time in Australia and made a good job of it. Had pushed aside her often crippling sense of homesickness and thrown herself fully into Aussie, family and community life .. had been a good Aussie and ensured that no-one knew how she felt inside.

 

She wasn't complaining or trying to be a hero. Her family had had a good life, she said and they loved Australia, as she did.

 

Now though, she said .. it was her time. She'd given herself permission to make herself happy by returning to the UK .. to fulfill her deepest needs. And she had needed to be back home for a long time .. a long time. So she'd done it. Had popped herself on a plane. And she wouldn't be leaving the UK again. She was back for good and peaceful now, knowing she'd be buried at home, where she belonged and had privately felt she belonged ever since leaving UK.

 

So there she was, walking with a bit of difficulty, but still had lipstick on and her hair nicely done. She was visiting the churchyard as she did often. It gave her immense pleasure to know she was back .. that she'd done it at last. She felt peaceful. Her time was near and she was happy she'd made it back to UK in time instead of putting it off.

 

What a woman, huh ? Don't know how she arranged to get back. I was under the impression it wasn't possible .. that the UK wouldn't allow you back if you were ill and elderly. But she gave me hope, thank God for her. I stupidly relinquished my UK citizenship many years ago, as necessity, in order to get a passport urgently concerning work. It would have taken forever, I was told, to get a dual-passport, but could get an Australian one quickly, after taking Australian citizenship.

 

On my way back from the citizenship ceremony, I revealed to the cab driver that I'd just been made an Aussie citizen. And he told me to get out of the cab ! He was a Pommy .. a nice man. The last words he yelled at me as he pulled away were, ' You'll regret what you've just done for the rest of your life'. Then left me standing on the side of the road. It's haunted me ever since. And of course, I've always intended to re-apply for UK citizenship, or at least dual UK-Aussie citizenship or whatever it is .. but always put it off due to this and that.

 

Now though, with age upon me, I must pull my finger out and see if I can still obtain dual citizenship, regardless of cost and complications, in light of things I've read suggesting the UK may not be interested in regaining any of its old citizens. Because I want the option of returning to UK to die, morbid though that probably sounds. I at least want the option. Whether or not I'm as brave as the woman in the tv documentary, only time will tell, because the love of our children often exceeds even our love of what we consider to be our 'home'.

 

But when I remember that old lady standing in her village churchyard near her ancestors' graves, I can imagine the peace she felt, the sense of 'rightness' about what she'd done, regardless of personal cost. I'd give the world sometimes, just to be able to sit under a tree in my humble childhood village, just to touch the grass and stones and 'feel at home' after so long in Australia which .. nice as it is .. has never really felt like home to me in all the decades I've lived here. Maybe some of us just don't transplant as well as others, even though we seem perfectly adjusted on the outside.

[Guest sannygeorge]

Definitely UK is the best place for you to stay...

[Guest guest22466]

Burnett that is an emotional post and I could very much relate to it myslef it brings out feelings that some of us just bury to help us live a life here. It is a strange feeling living in a country away from home its hard to explain that feeling of "limbo" but not wanting to feel like that but you do. I can understand why the lady wanted to go home and also why she stayed in Australia and her reasons for doing what she did. I live in Australia to be with my son as he is just 9 years old and so maybe one day when my son is older I too may go live back home but who knows what is around that corner. It's like you say for some people the move is the best thing they have ever done and find it easier and for others the roots back home are sometimes very deep and can draw you back home.

[Guest Susie]

Reading those posts has made me feel really sad. To be in a position where 'nowhere' feels like home and to be pingponging back and forward must be a complete nightmare. Its more OK if children are not involved, as its really tough for them changing schools all the time and having their education interrupted.

 

I am currently freaking that I've ruined my daughter's education by coming here as if we move home for her to go to college/uni we will not be able to afford international fees. If we stay here for her to finish all her education, then that could be 5 years + and it may then be impossible to leave due to being too 'sucked in'. We will have nothing to go home for then. Now, after 8.5 months we could semi-resume our old lives where we left off. How could our own country treat us as 'international', we've paid taxes and ni for many years. The full implications of emigrating do not hit for a while.

 

Recently, we have been off on holiday and have done a few day trips, a bit further afield than just round the metro area of Perth, eg York, Gingin. I have been left with a sense of 'where the f*** are we?' and that is moving from a tiny village in Scotland!!

 

Good luck to all with what you decide to do...

[Guest June Pixie]

Wow Burnett you make Australia seem like Alcatraz!!! I’m glad the little old lady returned to do what was right for her, although, I suspect she returned to a village like Saffron Walden – If she had to move to somewhere like where I live, god help her!