Any teachers moving over?!

[benj1980]

Hi Guys

I haven't been on here for a while, but as we start to open up here in WA I thought I'd put a post out. I was wondering if there are any teachers who are looking to make the move soonish, perhaps you already have a visa or close to obtaining it. Many schools in the state have struggled to obtain teachers this year due to retirements, Covid mandates etc. This will pick up but if you are wondering when might be a good time to move, now I'd suggest would be as good as any. I work in the public system in a High School so your typical comprehensive school in the UK. SOR in sunny Mandurah we are looking out for more teachers and good teachers will be picked up pretty quickly into more lengthy contracts, leading to permanency. Two people I have connected with have from this forum have ended up with permanent jobs at my school to date, so if you have any questions please message me or reply on the post and I'll get back to you.

There's always plenty of debate over where you should live when you come to WA. I preferred the more rugged feel of where I live compared to NOR. But then I'm from Cornwall so the more un-spoilt coastline the better for me! The reality is there's jobs NOR too.

[Marisawright]

What subjects are needed?  

[benj1980]

25 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

What subjects are needed?  

Always Science and Maths. English, Technology seems to be the next priority and then HASS, but not Phys Ed! Unfortunately everyone wants to be a Phys Ed teacher over here, many split their time with their secondary subjects and most of them are awesome in the classroom. 

[Marisawright]

Tagging @ScotErin here in case you're able to help.   They are unable to apply for current vacancies as not yet qualified, but you may have useful info on future prospects. 

My concern is that ScotErin is about to embark on training as a Modern Studies teacher in order to migrate, and from my limited experience (as the ex-wife of a Science teacher), I think the chances of migrating with that subject would be very slim.  Your thoughts?

[benj1980]

2 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Tagging @ScotErin here in case you're able to help.   They are unable to apply for current vacancies as not yet qualified, but you may have useful info on future prospects. 

My concern is that ScotErin is about to embark on training as a Modern Studies teacher in order to migrate, and from my limited experience (as the ex-wife of a Science teacher), I think the chances of migrating with that subject would be very slim.  Your thoughts?

What is it? Is it HASS related? History, Geography, Citizenship& Politics, Business Studies? In terms of migration I think as a High School teacher it would be ok. But it is a HASS role I'm thinking so you would need to be flexible as HASS teachers are pretty common.

Skilled occupation list (homeaffairs.gov.au)

There's plenty of visa options I think?

 

[Marisawright]

13 minutes ago, benj1980 said:

What is it? Is it HASS related? History, Geography, Citizenship& Politics, Business Studies? In terms of migration I think as a High School teacher it would be ok. But it is a HASS role I'm thinking so you would need to be flexible as HASS teachers are pretty common.

That's what I mean.  I'm not at all sure Modern Studies is even recognised as a subject, at least in some states.   

[benj1980]

3 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

That's what I mean.  I'm not at all sure Modern Studies is even recognised as a subject, at least in some states.   

@ScotErin would need to check that out and it could change of course!

[ScotErin]

On 15/03/2022 at 07:16, benj1980 said:

@ScotErin would need to check that out and it could change of course!

Brilliant of you to reach out on here with this information! I will be keeping an eye on the forum once I qualify in the UK and am following the advice from Marisawright and others to expand on the subjects I teach to improve my chances. 

Yes, Modern Studies is essentially current affairs, citizenship and politics, but Modern Studies teachers here in Scotland will often teach other Humanities too like History and Geography - so I will get as much under my belt as I can. Thanks for sharing this and I will certainly come back to the forum in the future with more experience and my qualifications gained. 

On 15/03/2022 at 06:44, Marisawright said:

Tagging @ScotErin here in case you're able to help.   They are unable to apply for current vacancies as not yet qualified, but you may have useful info on future prospects. 

My concern is that ScotErin is about to embark on training as a Modern Studies teacher in order to migrate, and from my limited experience (as the ex-wife of a Science teacher), I think the chances of migrating with that subject would be very slim.  Your thoughts?

Thanks for your help on this - I really appreciate it. I am delving into the specific curriculums of several states to understand if/ how my subject might fit into the curriculums. Good to know this kind of outreach can be found here, so thanks again! 

[benj1980]

13 minutes ago, ScotErin said:

Brilliant of you to reach out on here with this information! I will be keeping an eye on the forum once I qualify in the UK and am following the advice from Marisawright and others to expand on the subjects I teach to improve my chances. 

Yes, Modern Studies is essentially current affairs, citizenship and politics, but Modern Studies teachers here in Scotland will often teach other Humanities too like History and Geography - so I will get as much under my belt as I can. Thanks for sharing this and I will certainly come back to the forum in the future with more experience and my qualifications gained. 

Thanks for your help on this - I really appreciate it. I am delving into the specific curriculums of several states to understand if/ how my subject might fit into the curriculums. Good to know this kind of outreach can be found here, so thanks again! 

I think what you need to understand is if you enjoy politics, citizenship etc. That obviously what you'd teach over here would be different. We have HASS teachers who are Poms but they are really teaching things that they have little subject knowledge of because you are teaching in a different context. There's more overlap with Geography of course. It's not really an issue you'll just have to do some reading and research!

[Marisawright]

6 hours ago, benj1980 said:

I think what you need to understand is if you enjoy politics, citizenship etc. That obviously what you'd teach over here would be different. We have HASS teachers who are Poms but they are really teaching things that they have little subject knowledge of..... It's not really an issue you'll just have to do some reading and research!

They may manage once they're in a job, but a far more important question is, how did they get a visa? 

Given how competitive the process is, I find it hard to believe an Immigration official will look at an application and say, "Hmm, this teacher is qualified in Modern Studies.  Not taught in Australia. Never mind, a teacher is a teacher.  And she has done a bit of Geography and we do need Geography teachers.  We'll just ignore all these applications from specialist Geography teachers and pick this one.

I'm not hugely convinced that's what would happen.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Marisawright

[benj1980]

The Visa asks for Secondary Teachers it doesn't stipulate subjects?

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, benj1980 said:

The Visa asks for Secondary Teachers it doesn't stipulate subjects?

Perhaps for the 189 visa, but then you need 95 to 100 points to stand any chance of getting one of those.  

For the 190 and 491 visas, the state looks at exactly what their needs are.    So for instance, if they're short of Physics teachers, they're not going to pick a Biology teacher. 

[benj1980]

Well yes the points have all changed since I applied you needed 60 I think and I had 65! I haven't kept up to date with visa requirements admittedly in any detail. @Marisawright it seems you have

[benj1980]

Times have changed, previously I would have had a few responses by now! People looking for work! Western Australia has only just reopened I guess, as well a higher point score... Can anyone confirm whether they are/or aware of others finding it difficult to emigrate because of points in teaching?

[Blue Flu]

What I can confirm is a lot of disquiet on the teaching front in WA. Many are unhappy with conditions and indeed safety in WA schools. I doubt it is anywhere near the level of some inner city UK schools , but never the less has resulted in a lot of bad publicity of late.  

[Jon the Hat]

On 18/03/2022 at 04:41, Marisawright said:

They may manage once they're in a job, but a far more important question is, how did they get a visa? 

Given how competitive the process is, I find it hard to believe an Immigration official will look at an application and say, "Hmm, this teacher is qualified in Modern Studies.  Not taught in Australia. Never mind, a teacher is a teacher.  And she has done a bit of Geography and we do need Geography teachers.  We'll just ignore all these applications from specialist Geography teachers and pick this one.

I'm not hugely convinced that's what would happen.

Clearly if there were specialist teachers you would expect them to get priority, but I am increasingly convinced that being a great teacher is less about knowledge and more about how you engage and communicate, and also these days control a classroom.  If you had a successful public school teacher with some experience that is probably a better bet that say a specialist subject teacher who only worked in a small private school.

[Marisawright]

41 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Clearly if there were specialist teachers you would expect them to get priority, but I am increasingly convinced that being a great teacher is less about knowledge and more about how you engage and communicate, and also these days control a classroom.  If you had a successful public school teacher with some experience that is probably a better bet that say a specialist subject teacher who only worked in a small private school.

Are you a teacher?  I am not a teacher but I come from a family of teachers and my ex-husband is a teacher.  They will all tell you that they chose their specialist subject(s) because they like or even love that subject.  Because they love the subject, they love teaching it to others.  They've spent years studying it so they can do that to the best of their ability

For them, there is nothing so soul-destroying as being shoved into a classroom to teach subjects they know little or nothing about.  And of course, they will then have to spend hours of unpaid overtime reading up on said subject so they can teach it intelligently.  Sure, they know how to control a class, but that's not why they wanted to be a teacher.  And it shows a lack of respect for the many years they spent studying their specialist subject, as well as a lack of respect for the subject they're being asked to teach.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Marisawright

[Jon the Hat]

33 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Are you a teacher?  I am not a teacher but I come from a family of teachers and my ex-husband is a teacher.  They will all tell you that they chose their specialist subject(s) because they like or even love that subject.  Because they love the subject, they love teaching it to others.  They've spent years studying it so they can do that to the best of their ability

For them, there is nothing so soul-destroying as being shoved into a classroom to teach subjects they know little or nothing about.  And of course, they will then have to spend hours of unpaid overtime reading up on said subject so they can teach it intelligently.  Sure, they know how to control a class, but that's not why they wanted to be a teacher.  And it shows a lack of respect for the many years they spent studying their specialist subject, as well as a lack of respect for the subject they're being asked to teach.

Yes absolutely, I was more thinking in the context of wanting to move to Australia I am sure plenty of people do something a bit different.  I am not suggesting that love of their chosen subject isn't important or that they should be expected to switch to random subjects against their will, just thinking out loud.  I accept your depth of knowledge on the subject!

[Marisawright]

14 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Yes absolutely, I was more thinking in the context of wanting to move to Australia I am sure plenty of people do something a bit different.  I am not suggesting that love of their chosen subject isn't important or that they should be expected to switch to random subjects against their will, just thinking out loud.  I accept your depth of knowledge on the subject!

Yes my ex was obliged to go to a country school so he had to teach history (which he failed at school!) as well as life skills and I forget what else, as well as science. However what you do to get a job once here is not the same thing. 

[benj1980]

On 20/05/2022 at 07:23, Blue Flu said:

What I can confirm is a lot of disquiet on the teaching front in WA. Many are unhappy with conditions and indeed safety in WA schools. I doubt it is anywhere near the level of some inner city UK schools , but never the less has resulted in a lot of bad publicity of late.  

I don't entirely agree with this. Pay wise yes, the latest offer isn't enough. Safety in some schools is coming under scrutiny perhaps but it is a small amount I would suggest. Although schools aren't full of angels who want to learn. People leave the UK teaching profession in droves and it is not just inner city schools. The work life balance doesn't even compare, there's more flexibility certainly in the public system although I can't comment on the private system. My experience is based on a tough secondary school, followed by a leafy green secondary school in the UK followed by a low socioeconomic high school and of course my teaching network. I left whilst academy structures were in their infancy, I understand this has really stripped schools in the UK as they strive to save money. Public schools here aren't superbly resourced either but has support mechanisms through the department to support with disabilities, mental health and behaviour are active and work well with schools.

I'd be interested in knowing what sort of school you work in Blue Flu?

[benj1980]

On 20/05/2022 at 09:24, Jon the Hat said:

Clearly if there were specialist teachers you would expect them to get priority, but I am increasingly convinced that being a great teacher is less about knowledge and more about how you engage and communicate, and also these days control a classroom.  If you had a successful public school teacher with some experience that is probably a better bet that say a specialist subject teacher who only worked in a small private school.

I would suggest you are correct. You can have all the subject knowledge and passion in the world but if you can't communicate to your audience it's a waste of time. Nobody wants to teach a subject that is completely alien to them however, that said some have and thrived. Maths would be difficult as you need to continue to build your knowledge and aptitude in the subject to move on to the next level of difficulty, but history or civics just read up on the subject. Having said this, not at senior school level!

[Blue Flu]

On 22/05/2022 at 20:13, benj1980 said:

I don't entirely agree with this. Pay wise yes, the latest offer isn't enough. Safety in some schools is coming under scrutiny perhaps but it is a small amount I would suggest. Although schools aren't full of angels who want to learn. People leave the UK teaching profession in droves and it is not just inner city schools. The work life balance doesn't even compare, there's more flexibility certainly in the public system although I can't comment on the private system. My experience is based on a tough secondary school, followed by a leafy green secondary school in the UK followed by a low socioeconomic high school and of course my teaching network. I left whilst academy structures were in their infancy, I understand this has really stripped schools in the UK as they strive to save money. Public schools here aren't superbly resourced either but has support mechanisms through the department to support with disabilities, mental health and behaviour are active and work well with schools.

I'd be interested in knowing what sort of school you work in Blue Flu?

I don't work in a school and going by stats released in relation to increased violence against teachers and general disgruntlement with the system. I do know teachers though and they give a mixed report with regards to their industry. Obviously, as I already mentioned it is nothing in comparison to tough inner city schools in the larger English cities. Again I have known (but a long time ago) Aussie and Kiwi teachers that worked in Inner London schools and found the going way more difficult. One even admitted to be scared for their safety. That was back last century. I doubt if things have improved, but the point that is being suggested, is not comparison with English schools, but the decline in standards in WA schools. 

[Marisawright]

On 22/05/2022 at 22:20, benj1980 said:

I would suggest you are correct. You can have all the subject knowledge and passion in the world but if you can't communicate to your audience it's a waste of time. Nobody wants to teach a subject that is completely alien to them however, that said some have and thrived. Maths would be difficult as you need to continue to build your knowledge and aptitude in the subject to move on to the next level of difficulty, but history or civics just read up on the subject. Having said this, not at senior school level!

If it's so easy to swap over to another subject, one wonders why anyone even bothers studying history or science or any other subject at university if one wants to teach. Sounds like all you need to do is stay one textbook ahead of the students, provided you know how to teach.

Edited May 24, 2022 by Marisawright

[benj1980]

13 hours ago, Blue Flu said:

I don't work in a school and going by stats released in relation to increased violence against teachers and general disgruntlement with the system. I do know teachers though and they give a mixed report with regards to their industry. Obviously, as I already mentioned it is nothing in comparison to tough inner city schools in the larger English cities. Again I have known (but a long time ago) Aussie and Kiwi teachers that worked in Inner London schools and found the going way more difficult. One even admitted to be scared for their safety. That was back last century. I doubt if things have improved, but the point that is being suggested, is not comparison with English schools, but the decline in standards in WA schools. 

I didn't know there was actual stats based around violence against teachers and disgruntlement, is this through the union? If you have a source I'd be interested in seeing it. I only know of one Aussie who has stuck it out in the UK system but plenty who come back, that could be for a multitude of reasons but they generally say the English system was more challenging in terms of students and expectations. I have only worked in Australia for seven years so I'd suggest that this isn't really long enough to suggest whether there has been a decline in standards, it's a big statement to make but there is certainly more awareness of every incident within a school due to social media. I don't think academic outcomes have changed much in this time and in WA there's been huge investment in things like Special Educational Needs which even ten years ago wasn't really of the same significance.

[benj1980]

13 hours ago, Marisawright said:

If it's so easy to swap over to another subject, one wonders why anyone even bothers studying history or science or any other subject at university if one wants to teach. Sounds like all you need to do is stay one textbook ahead of the students, provided you know how to teach.

My point is you can have all the knowledge in the world but can't teach and it is a skill, then it will have no impact to a class. If you have read one textbook but can teach the information in a way that hooks the students in and keeps them engaged in the subject, then I know which I'd prefer of my teachers. You can only do this up to a certain level though, you can't wing it as the topics get more complex it simply isn't sustainable. The optimum of course is a teacher with fantastic subject knowledge through university study, who shows passion and is simply a great teacher as well. As a regular teacher recruiter we are always looking for those!