Citizenship, when to apply?

[Garym85]

Hi all, 

my fiancée and I have had our PR for 18 months now. 
We came in on my 457 with her as my defacto early January 2017. I came by myself as she had a work project to finalise in the UK First. 
 

technically I tick both of the boxes for citizenship in January as that’s 4 years with at least 1 as PR. 
she didn’t permanently move here until the September that year but she did travel over in February(one month after I arrived) for 3 weeks. Would February be the start of her 4 years or September? 
 

also, prior to this she was here for a year on WHV and left a year before I arrived. Not sure if this is also a contributing factor in her time in Australia? 
 

want to get the application in as soon as possible but making sure we meet all requirements. 
 

thank you 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Garym85

[mt9754]

I think it would depend what Visa she came over on in February...

At the time you apply you must have been:

• living in Australia on a valid visa for the past 4 years
• a permanent resident or eligible New Zealand citizen for the past 12 months
• away from Australia for no more than 12 months in total in the past 4 years, including no more than 90 days in total in the past 12 months

 

Have you tried using the Residence Calculator? https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/help-support/tools/residence-calculator

[Canada2Australia]

Another tip is that the department seems to already know when this magical date occurs, and if you try to apply before that date, regardless of whether you know it or not, the system will not let you apply. I tried this out of curiosity, as have a few others, and it seems to be truth. And then suddendly on that mystical day, the 'firewall' comes down and you are then allowed to apply.

Just an observation I've made.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Canada2Australia

[rammygirl]

The trick is to pick the date you are thinking of applying and look back at the 4 years immediately prior to this. Any time out of the country between now and that date must be accounted for as well.

You can be absent 4 years prior but should be holding a valid visa, if so you can count that time in the allowable absences.

For example someone gets PR and validates their visa 1stJan 2015 stays 2 weeks returns home to UK.  They then move out to Aus 1st jan 2017. They do not leave Australia apart from a two week holiday to Bali.

They will be eligible to apply on 16th Jan 2020. Looking back 4 years and counting the validation trip as first entry they have met the requirements. If they had not left Aust again they would be eligible 2nd Jan 2020 as the time prior to them moving after validation counts as the allowable absence.

The calculator is very useful as linked above. 
 

 

 

[billynomates]

On 28/10/2020 at 10:05, rammygirl said:

For example someone gets PR and validates their visa 1stJan 2015 stays 2 weeks returns home to UK.  They then move out to Aus 1st jan 2017. They do not leave Australia apart from a two week holiday to Bali.

They will be eligible to apply on 16th Jan 2020. Looking back 4 years and counting the validation trip as first entry they have met the requirements. If they had not left Aust again they would be eligible 2nd Jan 2020 as the time prior to them moving after validation counts as the allowable absence.

Interestingly (aka really annoyingly) that's very close to my own situation, and the online application I've just started to fill in tells me I don't meet the residency requirements, yet the residency calculator does. Guess I will have to call them

[sualg]

As per usual, I can’t get my simple head around this, can you help.

PR (189) granted Feb 2017

visa activation trip 19th March 2017 - 11th April 2017

arrived to live in Sydney on 9th Oct 2017

5 days in Bali 

2 x 20 day trips back to the uk

 

 

[rammygirl]

Sualg you should be able to apply on the 20th March 2021.

 

[rammygirl]

1 hour ago, billynomates said:

Interestingly (aka really annoyingly) that's very close to my own situation, and the online application I've just started to fill in tells me I don't meet the residency requirements, yet the residency calculator does. Guess I will have to call them

Can sometimes be a day or so out try again.

[billynomates]

4 hours ago, rammygirl said:

Can sometimes be a day or so out try again.

Thanks, but I'm well in the limits - activated PR in 2010, lived in Aus for 13 months, back to UK, back and forth for visits, then back to Aus permanently Aug 2017, so November 2020 is more than 3 years out of the last 4. Either their system is playing up, or I may have misunderstood things.

[rammygirl]

You must have needed an RRV at some point then. It is possible your time was re set somehow because of this. Perhaps any time between visas?
the calculator should give a date when you are eligible. 

[paulhand]

6 hours ago, billynomates said:

Thanks, but I'm well in the limits - activated PR in 2010, lived in Aus for 13 months, back to UK, back and forth for visits, then back to Aus permanently Aug 2017, so November 2020 is more than 3 years out of the last 4. Either their system is playing up, or I may have misunderstood things.

 

5 hours ago, rammygirl said:

You must have needed an RRV at some point then. It is possible your time was re set somehow because of this. Perhaps any time between visas?
the calculator should give a date when you are eligible. 

If you let your RRV(s) expire when you were offshore that may be the issue. If you were not in Australia 4 years ago, you cannot count from that time unless you held an in-effect permanent visa on that date. 

[billynomates]

4 hours ago, paulhand said:

 

If you let your RRV(s) expire when you were offshore that may be the issue. If you were not in Australia 4 years ago, you cannot count from that time unless you held an in-effect permanent visa on that date. 

Thanks for responding. This sounds like the most plausible reason - I did have a period when I didn't have a valid RRV, with the last one being granted in March 2017 following a few months since the previous one expired. Perhaps I need to wait until March 2021 (which would be 4 years from an "active" RRV). I can't find any reference to this on the immi site, and the calculator certainly tells me I can already apply.

[Marisawright]

29 minutes ago, billynomates said:

Thanks for responding. This sounds like the most plausible reason - I did have a period when I didn't have a valid RRV, with the last one being granted in March 2017 following a few months since the previous one expired. Perhaps I need to wait until March 2021 (which would be 4 years from an "active" RRV). I can't find any reference to this on the immi site, and the calculator certainly tells me I can already apply.

While you didn’t have a valid RRV, you did not hold a valid visa, so that time doesn’t count

[billynomates]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

While you didn’t have a valid RRV, you did not hold a valid visa, so that time doesn’t count

That sounds plausible too, although I was still a permanent resident. I guess I'll have to wait a few more months.

Thanks.

Edit, the eligibility page here (https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/citizenship/become-a-citizen/permanent-resident#Eligibility) states:

"At the time you apply you must have been:

living in Australia on a valid visa for the past 4 years

..."

Which I think makes it more clear (I managed to miss that bit in my eagerness after using the residency calculator - which, to repeat, told me I could apply).

Edited November 1, 2020 by billynomates
Add some more detail.

[billynomates]

6 hours ago, paulhand said:

 

If you let your RRV(s) expire when you were offshore that may be the issue. If you were not in Australia 4 years ago, you cannot count from that time unless you held an in-effect permanent visa on that date. 

Thanks paulhand - I missed your response.

[paulhand]

7 hours ago, billynomates said:

That sounds plausible too, although I was still a permanent resident. 

... and that’s the point, you weren’t a permanent resident at that time (s5 of the Citizenship Act). 

[Marisawright]

8 hours ago, billynomates said:

That sounds plausible too, although I was still a permanent resident. .

No, you were not. You are only a permanent resident while you hold a valid travel facility (i.e., either the original 5 years or a subsequent RRV).   If you don't have a travel facility and you're not living in Australia, your PR has lapsed.  

[billynomates]

6 hours ago, paulhand said:

... and that’s the point, you weren’t a permanent resident at that time (s5 of the Citizenship Act). 

 

5 hours ago, Marisawright said:

No, you were not. You are only a permanent resident while you hold a valid travel facility (i.e., either the original 5 years or a subsequent RRV).   If you don't have a travel facility and you're not living in Australia, your PR has lapsed.  

Thanks to both of you for pointing this out - I had not appreciated that at the time! For reference (for anyone else who comes across this) the "AUSTRALIAN CITIZENSHIP ACT 2007 - SECT 5 Permanent resident" can be found here: http://www6.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/consol_act/aca2007254/s5.html:

"Permanent resident

             (1)  For the purposes of this Act, a person is a permanent resident at a particular time if and only if:

...

(b)  both:

       (i)  the person is not present in Australia at that time and holds a permanent visa at that time; and

       (ii)  the person has previously been present in Australia and held a permanent visa immediately"

So I reckon I can apply once I've gone 4 years from when I got my last RRV in March 2017, a few months before I returned to Australia permanently.