Resolving Conflict: Residence Calculator Versus Immigration Officers

[Gabriel_P]

Hi everyone,

 

Good day! How's it going? Please share your thoughts.

I am confused why the residence calculator says I am eligible to apply (as of Aug 25, 2019) for citizenship but Immigration officers tell me otherwise (I may be eligible only by July 26, 2020 according to them). I am gutted to know about the delay by 11 months, since last year (sometime in July 2018) I sought the help of the Immigration office and one officer pre-determined for me that my eligibility date is indeed on August 25, 2019.

Relevant dates/info:

July 20, 2013: First entry to Australia under 2-year student VISA

July 11, 2015 - July 25, 2016: Left the country prior to student VISA expiration; my student VISA ended on July 31, 2015.

July 26, 2016: Came back as a permanent resident (and have been so for more than 3 years). I was never away for more than a month within the last 3 years.

Ever since I received help from the Immigration office last July 2018 (that my eligibility is on Aug 25, 2019), I have been checking with the residence calculator to monitor impacts of changes to immigration laws and policies; as of today, the residence calculator has been updated since Nov. 11, 2018, and still says I am already eligible to apply. When I clarified on two occasions yesterday with two different Immigration officers why the calculator says YES (and I really included the gap of 1 year and 15 days in the 'Add Details' of Travel section when using the calculator), both of them are also puzzled why this was; they even confirmed with me that my being away for more than a year must have been picked up by the calculator as relevant info for residence period calculation. They cannot really give me a satisfying explanation, hence this post.

Can you please shed light on the following:

1) Any authoritative info from the Immigration office regarding the conflict between a YES through the residence calculator and a NO by Immigration officers?

2) What does expiration of any prior VISA mean to 'lawful residence' requirement (not permanent residence)?

3) Any professional whom I can contact and engage their services regarding my situation?

I am not going to insist my eligibility, since I still have almost 2 years left in my permanent residency. I just don't want to be misguided by Immigration officers themselves, like my former TAFE classmate who was ill-advised that he cannot be granted a temporary graduate VISA after finishing his university degree (at Curtin U), yet got help from a migration agent and won their case because of lapse of judgment by an Immigration officer. I have been ill-advised a few times through consulting with 'Immigration authorities,' and I just don't want to not exhaust all legal means I have because the not-so-knowledgeable authorities did not do their job well when giving professional advice.

Sorry for the length of this post. I'll definitely welcome thoughts from anyone, and would share within my circle of friends your ideas if such can help them in their information gathering.

 

Cheers and maraming salamat!

[MrGrieves]

Hi,

I understand you would be eligible around the 26th of July 2020 in that case. You need to be in Australia 4 years prior to your lodgement date, and in your case you came back on the 26th of July. I guess the immigration officer was right, and the residence calculator doesn't really take into consideration where you were 4 years before your lodgement date.

There are a couple of posts on this subject, I think.

Cheers

[Gabriel_P]

Hi MrGrieves,

Thanks for the response!

While I understand and respect your logic, I just am not satisfied with the conflict of professional opinions among 3 immigration officers; one last year saying I was eligible, and he even showed me the right way to use the residence calculator, while the other two advising otherwise as to my eligibility, yet kindly refused to use the calculator to back up their advice. (I even 'begged' for them to use the calculator to confirm my understanding, but they still refused, and I'm guessing this was to avoid any legal liabilities.)

I'm at a point right now, with respect to doing transactions within the country especially when dealing with the government, wherein I have personally experienced/received misinformation from government authorities themselves (student and permanent VISA applications, Centrelink, driving license, tax refund, etc.) as well as witnessing how my family and friends have also been ill-advised, yet we all learned later on that the quality of professional opinions provided as inputs to our decisions was bad.

Again, thanks for your thoughts! I'll also wait for others to share their ideas, and would continue gathering info, especially if website links and other information resources would be shared. I truly desire to apply for citizenship asap, since delay in my application translates into major derailment of my plans (love life(!), family, studies, career, etc.).

 

Cheers!

[MaggieMay24]

Do not count on the immigration office to give you correct information, and their role is not to provide advice.  You can call multiple times and get multiple different answers unfortunately.

AFAIK, you would not be eligible to apply until 2020 because if you consider Aug. 2019, when you count backwards from there you were outside Australia and also without a visa.  I'm not an expert though.

[Gabriel_P]

Thanks, MaggieMay24!

Yes, I understand and respect your logic.

 

 

Cheers!

[silencio]

I'm afraid it's not the role of the Immigration Office/Authority to guide you on your journey to citizenship. You either have to figure out your personal eligibility by yourself or employ a registered migration agent (they get paid to give migrants  professional advise and have a good knowledge).

I can't see why your short 1 year wait  would derail your life here taking into account that Permanent Residents have almost all the same rights like Australian citizens.

Or do you want to work for the Government your are bashing in your post? Would be hypocritical taking into account you left Australia for more than 1 year on a Student visa and are only living here for 3 years in a raw as a PR. You have to wait 4 years like anybody else and please stop blaming others/authorities when it's clearly your own misinterpretation of the law.

Edited August 27, 2019 by silencio

[Gabriel_P]

Hi Silencio,

You really are using your freedom of speech in this country, salute!

Look, I am pretty sure you know less than 5% of me, hence your lapse of judgment is forgivable.

The last paragraph in my response to MrGrieves' post was meant to make light my bad situation. Your sarcastic remark deserves my sarcastic response, so how about you live out your profile name whenever you cannot say anything of value?

I have no worries about following rules and regulations myself. As a third-world citizen enjoying the rights and privileges that I have been enjoying while living in this country, I realized for myself how being 'obedient' is the way to go. However, your lack of understanding of my circumstances results in your poor judgment. As I have emphasized, an Immigration Officer (sometime July last year I called the Immigration Office) assured me that I am eligible to apply by Aug. 25, 2019 (yesterday). He even showed me how to 'properly use' the residence calculator. His act of helping me constitutes professional assistance/opinion, right? And I relied on it (my fault!). Then yesterday, two other Immigration Officers confirmed that I am not yet eligible when I wanted to apply for citizenship online, so you must 'somehow' understand my confusion. Why will there be inconsistencies in opinion from people who work in the same government agency? And to extend my analysis of the current issue, I have also been misguided by a Centrelink officer (I didn't need welfare assistance, but I was offered one, probably as her stereotype assessment of me), by an ATO officer (I was to receive a tax refund this year of about $1,100, yet this was charged against my other tax payments as a small business owner), and by other government employees (such as when the DOT clerk declared that I was lying to her about my Philippine licence). It has always been my attitude to 'refer' and 'defer' to decisions or opinions from experts, and I consider government employees, when acting on their capacities as employees, as experts.

Look, this will be my last post in response to yours. Feel free to retaliate, . Just so you know, I already started planning how to re-adjust my plans that relied on my becoming a citizen soon (the major derailment I was referring to): e.g. investing in a car, house, and others, as well as traveling outside Australia using the privileged Aussie passport. I come from the Philippines, and sadly but it is true, my country's passport doesn't allow me to freely travel the world as an Aussie passport would.

God bless you, and I mean this!

 

 

[paulhand]

5 hours ago, MaggieMay24 said:

Do not count on the immigration office to give you correct information, and their role is not to provide advice.  You can call multiple times and get multiple different answers unfortunately.

AFAIK, you would not be eligible to apply until 2020 because if you consider Aug. 2019, when you count backwards from there you were outside Australia and also without a visa.  I'm not an expert though.

I agree with this on all counts (other than the not an expert bit). 

[Gabriel_P]

14 minutes ago, paulhand said:

I agree with this on all counts (other than the not an expert bit). 

Thanks, Paul!

I appreciate your writing a response. As a migration agent, do you help with citizenship applications? I was wondering if I can call you, so I can discuss more details about my case. I am willing to pay for your opinion (hopefully I can afford your services ).


Cheers!

[Marisawright]

24 minutes ago, Gabriel_P said:

Thanks, Paul!

I appreciate your writing a response. As a migration agent, do you help with citizenship applications? I was wondering if I can call you, so I can discuss more details about my case. I am willing to pay for your opinion (hopefully I can afford your services ).


Cheers!

If you go to Paul's website you will find his contact details to arrange an appointment.  However, if he is saying you are not eligible until 2020, that is probably the case.

[jbh]

I agree with everyone above that the calculator is broken.

The residence requirement from the gov site (https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/citizenship/become-a-citizen/permanent-resident#Eligibility)  :

• living in Australia on a valid visa for the past 4 years
• a permanent resident or eligible New Zealand citizen for the past 12 months
• away from Australia for no more than 12 months in total in the past 4 years, including no more than 90 days in total in the past 12 months

It will be the last criteria that you fail as you were away for more than 12 months between July 11, 2015 - July 25, 2016. Your clock reset when you came back on July 26 2016.

Edited August 27, 2019 by jbh

[paulhand]

3 hours ago, jbh said:

I agree with everyone above that the calculator is broken.

The residence requirement from the gov site (https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/citizenship/become-a-citizen/permanent-resident#Eligibility)  :

• living in Australia on a valid visa for the past 4 years
• a permanent resident or eligible New Zealand citizen for the past 12 months
• away from Australia for no more than 12 months in total in the past 4 years, including no more than 90 days in total in the past 12 months

It will be the last criteria that you fail as you were away for more than 12 months between July 11, 2015 - July 25, 2016. Your clock reset when you came back on July 26 2016.

Actually, the issue is that the OP was outside Australia, without holding (and ever having held) a permanent visa on the day 4 years before applying if he applied now. He actually hasn't been absent from Australia for more than 12 months in the last 4 years.

[paulhand]

 

9 hours ago, MaggieMay24 said:

Do not count on the immigration office to give you correct information, and their role is not to provide advice.  You can call multiple times and get multiple different answers unfortunately.

AFAIK, you would not be eligible to apply until 2020 because if you consider Aug. 2019, when you count backwards from there you were outside Australia and also without a visa.  I'm not an expert though.

4 hours ago, paulhand said:

I agree with this on all counts (other than the not an expert bit). 

Just be clear - I meant that @MaggieMay24 is giving expert advice here...

[Gabriel_P]

3 hours ago, Marisawright said:

If you go to Paul's website you will find his contact details to arrange an appointment.  However, if he is saying you are not eligible until 2020, that is probably the case.

Hi Marisawright,

Thanks so much for the response. Yup, I may need to contact Paul before end of this week.

 

 

3 hours ago, jbh said:

I agree with everyone above that the calculator is broken.

The residence requirement from the gov site (https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/citizenship/become-a-citizen/permanent-resident#Eligibility)  :

• living in Australia on a valid visa for the past 4 years
• a permanent resident or eligible New Zealand citizen for the past 12 months
• away from Australia for no more than 12 months in total in the past 4 years, including no more than 90 days in total in the past 12 months

It will be the last criteria that you fail as you were away for more than 12 months between July 11, 2015 - July 25, 2016. Your clock reset when you came back on July 26 2016.

Thanks JBH!

 

I haven't considered the perspective on clock reset, since the Immigration officers (all three that I referred to in my posts) were in agreement that my 'Student VISA days' are actually considered for residence calculation purposes despite the more than one year break.

 

 

14 minutes ago, paulhand said:

 

Just be clear - I meant that @MaggieMay24 is giving expert advice here...

Yes Paulhand!

MaggieMay24, credits to you as well!

 

 

17 minutes ago, paulhand said:

Actually, the issue is that the OP was outside Australia, without holding (and ever having held) a permanent visa on the day 4 years before applying if he applied now. He actually hasn't been absent from Australia for more than 12 months in the last 4 years.

Paul (again),

 

Can you clarify your last statement: "He actually hasn't been absent from Australia for more than 12 months in the last 4 years." Is this favorable to me?

 

 

Cheers to everyone!

[paulhand]

18 minutes ago, Gabriel_P said:

 

 

Paul (again),

 

Can you clarify your last statement: "He actually hasn't been absent from Australia for more than 12 months in the last 4 years." Is this favorable to me?

 

 

Cheers to everyone!

No, unfortunately not. You pass on this bit, but miss on the "not being in Australia on the day 4 years before applying whilst not holding a permanent visa" test.

[Gabriel_P]

6 minutes ago, paulhand said:

No, unfortunately not. You pass on this bit, but miss on the "not being in Australia on the day 4 years before applying whilst not holding a permanent visa" test.

Hi Paul,

 

Ohhh, wow... Amazing... I like the additional layer of analysis you provided here.

While your insights as a migration agent breaks my heart, it also provides me closure. Hahaha.

So, I can now rest my case, and just patiently... wait... for... eleven... more... months...

Again, thanks everyone! I like the culture of this discussion forum family. You gals and guys were ever willing to help. I've never ever experienced before this level of teamwork with foreigners within 12 hours only (since my original post).

Just to introduce myself a little bit more, I am one of those unlucky skilled migrant accountants who has never been 'professionally' employed by any Aussie business or company (never got the break for 5 years now), and is merely hustling to create income opportunities for himself (I'm a small, small, small business owner at the moment). In addition, I have been frustrated through a series of unfortunate events with respect to dealing with Australian entities (government and private), but the help I've received through this forum has truly inspired me.

GOD BLESS YOU ALL MORE AND MORE . Mabuhay!

[wrussell]

If you become an Australian citizen, don't forget to recover your Philippine citizenship.