PDD NOS

[Marvz]

Hi everyone!

May I ask if any of you here has the same situation as I? I have received an ITA for Visa 489 last May 17, 2018. My partner and I has applied for it together with my 15 year old son. Unfortunately, it really did not cross my mind that ASD (Autistic Spectrum Disorder) is a big issue and hurdle in our application. I have sought advise from my agency here in Singapore and they have told me to proceed since of course a substantial amount has been paid for. Now, my situation is that my son was diagnosed with PDD NOS(Pervasive Developmental Disorder Non Otherwise Specified) when he was 3 years old, we followed what the Developmental Pedia advised us before to get Occupational Therapy and Speech Therapy. Also, his pediatrician has encouraged us to still enroll him in mainstream school and observe him if he is able to cope. Fortunately, he has really grown into a productive person, he is in the top ten of his class and he is really amazing with computer stuff, sometimes the school sends him to represent in a contest. I feel so sad for these past weeks thinking about our application and the implications his diagnosis will have with our future. Any insights on this matter will be greatly appreciated. I am now in the stage of preparing my documents for the VISA application. I have read in a lot of forums that Mr. George Lombard is an expert in this field, so I have sent him a query about our chances. Should I hold off the application for now and wait for his reply or should I proceed? Any insights about this matter will be greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you in advance and God bless!

[Quoll]

I’d wait to see what advice you get. It rather depends on what support he needs to be productive. If he’s totally independent in school then you should be ok but if he has additional support then it rather depends how much that would potentially cost the Australian tax payer. Every child is different. Some kids with a diagnosis get a visa but they usually aren’t then eligible for any support in school. Bit of a Catch 22 situation.

[wrussell]

Quote

. Should I hold off the application for now and wait for his reply or should I proceed?

I suggest you wait until you have taken professional advice.

Was your case managed by a Registered Migration Agent in Singapore?

[gaia]

I would suggest that you wait to hear back from George Lombard. We used his agency with our application under similar circumstances and highly recommend him.

[Marvz]

5 minutes ago, gaia said:

I would suggest that you wait to hear back from George Lombard. We used his agency with our application under similar circumstances and highly recommend him.

What was the outcome of your application?

[gaia]

We were successful in obtaining our visas. Applying for a visa when there are potential medical issues is something that I think really needs specialist advice.

[Marvz]

9 minutes ago, gaia said:

We were successful in obtaining our visas. Applying for a visa when there are potential medical issues is something that I think really needs specialist advice.

Thats very good to hear! Thanks God. Yeah, Im seeking Mr. Lombard on this matter though I have an agency here in Singapore, I think they are not equipped to deal with this kind of circumstance I guess

[Johndoe]

PDD NOS is not allowable for school funding, at least in Qld. It's a " broad spectrum diagnosis" (my words) frequently applied to kids that don't, at the time of assessment, fill the criteria for another diagnosis such as ASD. The problem is, that at the time of assessment and due to the child performing well at that time, with few behavioural difficulties and perhaps excelling in some areas, PDDNOS is often applied. This application can, (the cynic in me), be influenced by the need to apply a "label" to those with less difficult behavioural problems at the expense of the ASD population overall and to direct funding to those with more observed difficulties (at the time of assessment)

Despite achievements at primary or even senior school, future assessment such as at the time of puberty/change of environment/circumstance etc may give a truer picture of a child's "problems" particularly in girls where their behaviour is more inhibited than in boys and dx's are more rare.

As such, I don't think that PDD Nos should be a barrier to a visa as, at least in Qld, it doesn't qualify for extra funding/care. That said, with what I have said previously, look at (google)  the diagnostic criteria for autism and, despite the dx applied by professionals, ask yourself if your son fits those criteria. You see/hear/experience more at home, than any diagnostic team could experience when your son feels he has to "perform" for them so you yourself conduct a diagnosis.

With a PDDNOS dx a visa is more probable, so go with that, but don't lose sight of the possible reality that your son, based on the fact that you sought help earlier on, (to me) fits the bill of something else ;-)

My son hardly spoke till he was 3, couldn't write his name till he was 8yrs old but was reading music at age 8yrs. He now has a certificate 3 in Education and Learning Support and is a qualified teacher's aide. He can memorise the birthdays and places of birth of every rock band he's ever heard from the 60's till present day.........that doesn't mean that he hasn't got a problem, and that, in your case. " he is really amazing with computer stuff, sometimes the school sends him to represent in a contest" means that things are (perhaps) just fine.

I hope that I am not being alarmist but all I'm trying to illustrate is that sometimes "expert opinion" is clouded by politics and more so by a child's ability to "perform" differently under different/circumstances/time. In other words, I never have, and never will, trust the dx of PDDNOS.............it's just a way of the specialists saying, "we haven't got a handle on it yet" or "at this moment in time,  he doesn't need help"

[Marvz]

20 minutes ago, Johndoe said:

PDD NOS is not allowable for school funding, at least in Qld. It's a " broad spectrum diagnosis" (my words) frequently applied to kids that don't, at the time of assessment, fill the criteria for another diagnosis such as ASD. The problem is, that at the time of assessment and due to the child performing well at that time, with few behavioural difficulties and perhaps excelling in some areas, PDDNOS is often applied. This application can, (the cynic in me), be influenced by the need to apply a "label" to those with less difficult behavioural problems at the expense of the ASD population overall and to direct funding to those with more observed difficulties (at the time of assessment)

Despite achievements at primary or even senior school, future assessment such as at the time of puberty/change of environment/circumstance etc may give a truer picture of a child's "problems" particularly in girls where their behaviour is more inhibited than in boys and dx's are more rare.

As such, I don't think that PDD Nos should be a barrier to a visa as, at least in Qld, it doesn't qualify for extra funding/care. That said, with what I have said previously, look at (google)  the diagnostic criteria for autism and, despite the dx applied by professionals, ask yourself if your son fits those criteria. You see/hear/experience more at home, than any diagnostic team could experience when your son feels he has to "perform" for them so you yourself conduct a diagnosis.

With a PDDNOS dx a visa is more probable, so go with that, but don't lose sight of the possible reality that your son, based on the fact that you sought help earlier on, (to me) fits the bill of something else

My son hardly spoke till he was 3, couldn't write his name till he was 8yrs old but was reading music at age 8yrs. He now has a certificate 3 in Education and Learning Support and is a qualified teacher's aide. He can memorise the birthdays and places of birth of every rock band he's ever heard from the 60's till present day.........that doesn't mean that he hasn't got a problem, and that, in your case. " he is really amazing with computer stuff, sometimes the school sends him to represent in a contest" means that things are (perhaps) just fine.

I hope that I am not being alarmist but all I'm trying to illustrate is that sometimes "expert opinion" is clouded by politics and more so by a child's ability to "perform" differently under different/circumstances/time. In other words, I never have, and never will, trust the dx of PDDNOS.............it's just a way of the specialists saying, "we haven't got a handle on it yet" or "at this moment in time,  he doesn't need help"

Thank you for you reply Mr. JohnDoe, your words eases my stressed mind. Although I have to clarify and correct me if I am wrong, but isnt PDD NOS considered as ASD as what I have read in the internet? Yes, my son did go for Occupational Therapy for a few sessions, but unfortunately for the speech therapy he was only exposed like once because of financial constraints, and from where we hail it is really scarce and expensive. So, when we enrolled him in a small nursery, that was the time when things really changed. He began speaking, and to our amazement he didnt speak our local tongue, but he was fluent in English. This could be because he watched a lot of english cartoons at that stage also. I even clearly remembered how he was crying so hard in my lap during his commencment in Nursery and asking me why he has not got a medal for himself. I told him "we should be studying harder so you can also get that medal". By the next year, he did get a third place medal for academic excellence. He is really an amazing kid. Very eager to learn a lot of stuff, but we never had a follow up with a psychologist or any professional apart from his pedia after that diagnosis. I am hopeful that with this entry to Australia, I can help him be his best self, and to also harness his potential. Do you think I should seek a psychologist before the medical exams for the Visa? I am gonna get back and inquire with my agency if they can address my concerns about it. I know I am not supposed to ask in here since Im very new and I have a migration agent to handle this, but it really is a relief to hear other people's perspectives as well. I appreciate you guys for the time and effort you all are taking to try and help out those who are in need of information.

 

God bless!

[Johndoe]

12 minutes ago, Marvz said:

Thank you for you reply Mr. JohnDoe, your words eases my stressed mind. Although I have to clarify and correct me if I am wrong, but isnt PDD NOS considered as ASD as what I have read in the internet? Yes, my son did go for Occupational Therapy for a few sessions, but unfortunately for the speech therapy he was only exposed like once because of financial constraints, and from where we hail it is really scarce and expensive. So, when we enrolled him in a small nursery, that was the time when things really changed. He began speaking, and to our amazement he didnt speak our local tongue, but he was fluent in English. This could be because he watched a lot of english cartoons at that stage also. I even clearly remembered how he was crying so hard in my lap during his commencment in Nursery and asking me why he has not got a medal for himself. I told him "we should be studying harder so you can also get that medal". By the next year, he did get a third place medal for academic excellence. He is really an amazing kid. Very eager to learn a lot of stuff, but we never had a follow up with a psychologist or any professional apart from his pedia after that diagnosis. I am hopeful that with this entry to Australia, I can help him be his best self, and to also harness his potential. Do you think I should seek a psychologist before the medical exams for the Visa? I am gonna get back and inquire with my agency if they can address my concerns about it. I know I am not supposed to ask in here since Im very new and I have a migration agent to handle this, but it really is a relief to hear other people's perspectives as well. I appreciate you guys for the time and effort you all are taking to try and help out those who are in need of information.

 

God bless!

 

No, PDDNOS is an abbreviation of Pervasive Development Disorder Not Otherwise Specified. NOS is the primary factor here,,,,,,,,,they can't specify what is exactly wrong, although being professionals, they would never admit to that, (me being cynical again) so they give it a label

I really can't advise you what to do as your are the parents and you  are the ones responsible and best able to know your son and what, and more importantly, who he is.

I'm guessing that English isn't your first language so I hope that you understand fully what I am illustrating. I also hope that cultural differences can be considered because I know full well how much emphasis can be placed on "formal" education and "achievement" in Asian cultures. Neither has ever been my priority for my child and if it had, no doubt it would have damaged not his academic achievements, but without doubt, his mental health.

ASD persons, children or adults, need to pursue what is of interest to them, no matter how strange that interest may seem to be to others, if they are to be happy and realise their potential eg your son showed more interest in English than your native tongue

My priority has always been on my child's mental well being. Is he happy? Is he stressed? If he's stressed, is it because the school, peers, or even ourselves expect him to behave differently?

As I said earlier, my son couldn't write his name till he was 8 but now your son already has an ability to focus  way beyond what us mere "normal" persons can do.

Autism at high functioning level is to be welcomed and reveled in. They can see/hear and envision things that I would love to enjoy myself. It's a disability only because society makes it so.

My advice is to seek no more answers until you get your visa. Once here, you will get a more enlightened opinion regarding PDDNOS. In my opinion, the fact that your son chose English over your native language and is fluent points fully to him being ASD................but............you don't want a dx of ASD (yet )if you want a visa

Cheating the visa system?? No way! No doubt in years to come your son will be an asset to Australia. Good luck

[Marvz]

Just an update of our Visa 489 application. Before my son had his medicals I went to see his neurodev pedia in our home country and she classified my son as having Aspergers. After that, we went to the panel Dr and showed his medical report. The Panel Dr. found nothing wrong with my son. I think my decision was wrong to have him diagnosed before the medicals. As I said in this thread his first diagnosis was PDD NOS (Pervasive Dev Disorder Not Otherwise Specified). Now, we just got the results and my son did not meet the criteria for health requirement. We were sent with a s57 PIC 4005 Natural Justice Letter  wanting us to explain to the MOC. I have contacted George Lombard, but havent really got the appointment for the consultation yet. However, in his initial email to me, they have told me that the only way my son will pass the health criteria is to reverse the diagnosis or have a health waiver(which we unfortunately dont have). Is this a final advice?  Or are there any strategies in replying the Natural Justice Letter? Im really stuck in a rut thinking that we are bound to fail and the Natural Justice Letter is just a formality of some sort. Can anyone advice me on what to do? I have until Nov 19 to reply to the C.O. As I said, Im booking a consultation with George Lombard, hopefully next week and have my questions cleared? Consultation wise, will they be giving me other options on what to do? I have a lot of questions in my mind, but I dont really know where to begin. 

 

Any advice will be much appreciated. TIA

[Quoll]

1 hour ago, Marvz said:

Just an update of our Visa 489 application. Before my son had his medicals I went to see his neurodev pedia in our home country and she classified my son as having Aspergers. After that, we went to the panel Dr and showed his medical report. The Panel Dr. found nothing wrong with my son. I think my decision was wrong to have him diagnosed before the medicals. As I said in this thread his first diagnosis was PDD NOS (Pervasive Dev Disorder Not Otherwise Specified). Now, we just got the results and my son did not meet the criteria for health requirement. We were sent with a s57 PIC 4005 Natural Justice Letter  wanting us to explain to the MOC. I have contacted George Lombard, but havent really got the appointment for the consultation yet. However, in his initial email to me, they have told me that the only way my son will pass the health criteria is to reverse the diagnosis or have a health waiver(which we unfortunately dont have). Is this a final advice?  Or are there any strategies in replying the Natural Justice Letter? Im really stuck in a rut thinking that we are bound to fail and the Natural Justice Letter is just a formality of some sort. Can anyone advice me on what to do? I have until Nov 19 to reply to the C.O. As I said, Im booking a consultation with George Lombard, hopefully next week and have my questions cleared? Consultation wise, will they be giving me other options on what to do? I have a lot of questions in my mind, but I dont really know where to begin. 

 

Any advice will be much appreciated. TIA

Talk to George, he will give you the best advice, we can only speculate on the outcome but you do need to realise that medical conditions, especially in children who are likely to cost the tax payer a lot of money,  can result in visa refusals.

[Marvz]

14 minutes ago, Quoll said:

Talk to George, he will give you the best advice, we can only speculate on the outcome but you do need to realise that medical conditions, especially in children who are likely to cost the tax payer a lot of money,  can result in visa refusals.

Yes Im in the process of contacting him. Hopefully by next week. Havent got enough sleep for the past 2 days already thinking about this.

[Marvz]

I believe my son who is now 15 will not cost any money to the taxpayer. Do you have any idea how Im going to explain this to the letter? 

[Nemesis]

2 hours ago, Marvz said:

I believe my son who is now 15 will not cost any money to the taxpayer. Do you have any idea how Im going to explain this to the letter? 

That is the sort of question to discuss with George

[Quoll]

4 hours ago, Marvz said:

I believe my son who is now 15 will not cost any money to the taxpayer. Do you have any idea how Im going to explain this to the letter? 

He has the potential to though, which is the issue. If his disability makes him eligible for disability benefits or programs such as the NDIS, or even aide support for his last few years of school that will take him over the threshold.  You may say " but we will look after him " but you could change your mind, your situation may change, any number of things and he could access government funded programs.  George or one of the other agents who specialise in disability issues are really best placed to advise you.

[Marvz]

31 minutes ago, Quoll said:

He has the potential to though, which is the issue. If his disability makes him eligible for disability benefits or programs such as the NDIS, or even aide support for his last few years of school that will take him over the threshold.  You may say " but we will look after him " but you could change your mind, your situation may change, any number of things and he could access government funded programs.  George or one of the other agents who specialise in disability issues are really best placed to advise you.

My son has never had special education needs since he entered school. He also never had any extra support all throughout his school. No mental issues, not taking any medication at all. The MOC has quoted in our letter "Mild Autism Spectrum Disorder Form and severity of the applicant's condition : The applicant has mild ASD and requires ongoing therapy to improve his communication skills"... I am so struck by this, because in all honesty he never had any speech therapy before. It was only when he was on vacation here abroad few months ago that I had him assessed because my intentions were to ENHANCE his speaking skills since he is a fast talker and would sometimes stutter. Though there was no comprehensive assessment done by the speech pathologist, she initially rated his speech and language skills as VERY GOOD. In addition to my son's education, he was always in maintstream school and in the top of his class. So Im really appalled with the statement that this can cost taxpayer's money. I cannot believe how they have to be so discriminatory on all people in the spectrum when they are really brilliant in a lot of ways. I hope I get some insights about this.

Edited October 25, 2018 by Marvz

[Quoll]

They have interpreted it that his therapy requirements and his possible access to disability services would put him over the threshold.  They're not being discriminatory, there are rules that they have to follow.  It's well known that people with a disabilities that are going to cost a lot of money are denied visas.  That's why you need expert advice on how to respond - if there is capacity for response.  They've only made judgments on the reports given to them. 

[gaia]

Don't panic, speak to george Lombard. In the mean time it's probably useful to get school reports, statement from school principal etc. an iq test to show normal iq etc. 

[Marvz]

On 26/10/2018 at 03:03, Quoll said:

They have interpreted it that his therapy requirements and his possible access to disability services would put him over the threshold.  They're not being discriminatory, there are rules that they have to follow.  It's well known that people with a disabilities that are going to cost a lot of money are denied visas.  That's why you need expert advice on how to respond - if there is capacity for response.  They've only made judgments on the reports given to them. 

Hi guys,

I just wanted to update you on my case. I had a second opinion for my son, and a clinical psychologist conducted WISC and ABAS for my son. I also sought the medical advise of another pediatric neurologist about the case of my son and all the results were very positive. Both of them are of the opinion that my son has no neurological deficiency. The past 6 months has been a rollercoaster to us. We will be submitting all the new reports by the end of this week with the aid of my agency, and I am fervently praying that the decision will be overturned in our favor. I just found out also from my colleague that our previous dev ped who diagnosed my son has a lot of negative feedbacks in their hometown. She was advised by her medical professional not to return to that dev ped anymore as her evaluations are not at par with her son's progress. I was appalled at knowing this, and I guess not complying with her recommendations was a good gut instinct from the very beginning. I am so compelled to complain to the right authorities about this case, but I just also learned that this DSM 5 might not be really a solid work after all. The emotional damage it creates will stay with me for a very long time. I can only think of all the patients that are overdiagnosed because of this meaningless PDDNOS and Asperger label.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Marvz

[Marvz]

On 29/10/2018 at 20:53, gaia said:

Don't panic, speak to george Lombard. In the mean time it's probably useful to get school reports, statement from school principal etc. an iq test to show normal iq etc. 

Thanks for the advise Gaia and other guests here. You were the only ones who comforted me in this trying times. It is not over yet for my case, but I got a really positive response from George after showing him our new reports from the clinical psych and pedia neuro. Hope the waiting time will not take that long as this has really taken a lot of toll on my emotions and physical health lately.

[Guest Kalea]

On 13/12/2018 at 09:51, Marvz said:

Hi guys,

I just wanted to update you on my case. I had a second opinion for my son, and a clinical psychologist conducted WISC and ABAS for my son. I also sought the medical advise of another pediatric neurologist about the case of my son and all the results were very positive. Both of them are of the opinion that my son has no neurological deficiency. The past 6 months has been a rollercoaster to us. We will be submitting all the new reports by the end of this week with the aid of my agency, and I am fervently praying that the decision will be overturned in our favor. I just found out also from my colleague that our previous dev ped who diagnosed my son has a lot of negative feedbacks in their hometown. She was advised by her medical professional not to return to that dev ped anymore as her evaluations are not at par with her son's progress. I was appalled at knowing this, and I guess not complying with her recommendations was a good gut instinct from the very beginning. I am so compelled to complain to the right authorities about this case, but I just also learned that this DSM 5 might not be really a solid work after all. The emotional damage it creates will stay with me for a very long time. I can only think of all the patients that are overdiagnosed because of this meaningless PDDNOS and Asperger label.

Hi Marvz, 

Can you share to me via pm who your son's psychologist is? I believe my son's over-diagnosed too. I would need a 2nd opinion from someone who can thoroughly check my son's real condition. TIA.