Breaking News - 457 Visas Stopped

[Starrynight]

This site is for people emigrating to Oz and for people who want to advise and help them, or that's what I thought?

[Starrynight]

19 hours ago, The Pom Queen said:

Many of our members were lucky to secure a route to PR from the 457 but everyone comes here knowing it is a risk and may never happen. 

Yes but if it doesn't happen it should be for a reason linked to the job not an age limit being changed I would have thought.

[Guest The Pom Queen]

8 minutes ago, Starrynight said:

Again...thank you Pom Queen. However, the 457 visa does have a route to PR through the TRT scheme, so as long as the job is still on the list, and the visa holder has a promise of a permanent job with the employer, this route should still apply.

 

 

We seem to be going around in circles so it will be the last I comment on the matter...

The 457 Visa scheme is a short term TEMPORARY VISA and offers no guarantee to you or your family. With the 457 Visa, if your 457 Visa Employer Sponsor terminates your employment, then you may only be given 60 days to find a new 457 Visa approved Employer Sponsor, apply for another substantive visa or leave Australia!

[Guest The Pom Queen]

6 minutes ago, Starrynight said:

This site is for people emigrating to Oz and for people who want to advise and help them, or that's what I thought?

And the site has been an excellent resource for people both moving to Australia, Living in Australia and Moving back from Australia for the last 14 years 

[Starrynight]

Just now, The Pom Queen said:

We seem to be going around in circles so it will be the last I comment on the matter...

The 457 Visa scheme is a short term TEMPORARY VISA and offers no guarantee to you or your family. With the 457 Visa, if your 457 Visa Employer Sponsor terminates your employment, then you may only be given 60 days to find a new 457 Visa approved Employer Sponsor, apply for another substantive visa or leave Australia!

I am totally aware of all this, but again, it does have a PR route and we came on that assumption. The employer expected this too. I did say in my last comment that if it is due to termination of employment, or the job coming off the list, I would agree and understand. I would be just as upset but would have to understand this. The reason is not one related to the employer or the employee though, so I expect this will be resolved and honoured.

[Guest263228]

5 minutes ago, Starrynight said:

Again...thank you Pom Queen. However, the 457 visa does have a route to PR through the TRT scheme, so as long as the job is still on the list, and the visa holder has a promise of a permanent job with the employer, this route should still apply.

 

 

Well it certainly did appear to develop those expectations, thanks to complacent government, but that was not the set out intention. I don't blame for a minute, people that have been caught up, believing PR should be a matter of course , but I do those with influence that allowed this to get out of hand, al sides of politics, so can only hope the situation is clarified. A temporally visa is what it says on the packet. Of course there will be those where it could progress to something else, but should never be an expectation.

 

[Starrynight]

3 minutes ago, Pura Vida said:

Well it certainly did appear to develop those expectations, thanks to complacent government, but that was not the set out intention. I don't blame for a minute, people that have been caught up, believing PR should be a matter of course , but I do those with influence that allowed this to get out of hand, al sides of politics, so can only hope the situation is clarified. A temporally visa is what it says on the packet. Of course there will be those where it could progress to something else, but should never be an expectation.

 

Yes it should have been made more clear. I understand there will be people who should not get PR for many reasons. We are not in that category and we contribute to this country by working hard. I am from the UK and my immediate family are all here and have been for most of their lives. If we are asked to leave, we will see our family no more, except for holidays, and I will be the only one left in the UK. The company will also be affected as my husband is highly valued. This cannot be right and individual circumstances should be considered don't you think?

[Guest263228]

19 hours ago, The Pom Queen said:

It's funny you should say that @MaggieMay24 only this morning on the way to hospital it was 6am and all the surrounding fields where we live were full of Asian people picking fruit and vegetables. There was not one white face. It is nothing to do with them taking jobs from us, it's that none of the locals want to get out of bed and put in a hard day's work. I really do take my hats off to the Asians, they work very hard and deserve to be treat right.

I'm not sure any one else would have got a look in. Certain folk will put up with conditions that they shouldn't be required to endure in Australia. In England, I recall it was East Europeans, (pre EU membership in some cases) that saw many hundreds, probably thousands, working in Kent (as an example) picking apples and other fruit. I doubt the gov'nor , would have wanted local made. Quite possibly none would have worked for the rate on offer.

Now while not knowing, obviously the personal situation of a field of entire Asian workers, I can but wonder. You will recall the recent busts, no doubt outside of Perth. A number of illegals deported there but not all abused Asian folk. Some apparently back packers on valid visa's as well.

[Mcguinnessp1968]

I am totally aware of all this, but again, it does have a PR route and we came on that assumption. The employer expected this too. I did say in my last comment that if it is due to termination of employment, or the job coming off the list, I would agree and understand. I would be just as upset but would have to understand this. The reason is not one related to the employer or the employee though, so I expect this will be resolved and honoured.

I fear you are banging your head off a brick wall.
I presume the route to PR you are referring to is the 186 TRT stream?
If so then you are entirely right in my opinion to quote this as a route to PR from a 457.
However I would say it is what it is and no amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth is going to change the situation. And I speak as someone in exactly the same position.

[Guest263228]

1 minute ago, Starrynight said:

Yes it should have been made more clear. I understand there will be people who should not get PR for many reasons. We are not in that category and we contribute to this country by working hard. I am from the UK and my immediate family are all here and have been for most of their lives. If we are asked to leave, we will see our family no more, except for holidays, and I will be the only one left in the UK. The company will also be affected as my husband is highly valued. This cannot be right and individual circumstances should be considered don't you think?

I'm sure you work hard. Just as I'm sure many on 457's do. Put it this way. The 457 can indeed be withdrawn if employer claims employee not up to task. It is a visa that can be abused by employers to mistreat staff.

In your particular case, I don't see a company, letting such a valued employee go. It should be in the hands of so said company to do the graft and ensure continuity. Surely? Would you on grounds of having no family remaining in UK have a base to stay as well?

. Always an element of risk though doing things in a temporally fashion, though at times likely unavoidable. But Good Luck on your endeavours to remain.

[Mcguinnessp1968]

I'm not sure any one else would have got a look in. Certain folk will put up with conditions that they shouldn't be required to endure in Australia. In England, I recall it was East Europeans, (pre EU membership in some cases) that saw many hundreds, probably thousands, working in Kent (as an example) picking apples and other fruit. I doubt the gov'nor , would have wanted local made. Quite possibly none would have worked for the rate on offer.
Now while not knowing, obviously the personal situation of a field of entire Asian workers, I can but wonder. You will recall the recent busts, no doubt outside of Perth. A number of illegals deported there but not all abused Asian folk. Some apparently back packers on valid visa's as well.

You speak as though Australia is some sort of utopia where dodgy practices don’t exist
Every developed country has the same issues, there are many jobs which locals just don’t want to do but someone has to do them.
Here in the UK is bonkers at the moment with Brexit, but what the government fail to realise is that if they cut all migration the country would literally grind to a halt.
What Australia is currently doing is no different to the isolationism the UK and US are currently trying, however it is short sighted.
I watched a film the other night about the financial crash and a comment made at the end was that governments will do what they always do in a crisis which is blame the poor and the immigrants. That to me is exactly what is going on in Australia the US and the UK

[Starrynight]

10 minutes ago, Pura Vida said:

I'm sure you work hard. Just as I'm sure many on 457's do. Put it this way. The 457 can indeed be withdrawn if employer claims employee not up to task. It is a visa that can be abused by employers to mistreat staff.

In your particular case, I don't see a company, letting such a valued employee go. It should be in the hands of so said company to do the graft and ensure continuity. Surely? Would you on grounds of having no family remaining in UK have a base to stay as well?

. Always an element of risk though doing things in a temporally fashion, though at times likely unavoidable. But Good Luck on your endeavours to remain.

Our ages made the risk unavoidable I'm afraid, yes. And yes, the company have said they will do whatever it takes, so hopefully it will get sorted. Am I right in saying that by March 2018 we will know for sure? Thanks for the good wishes.

[Guest263228]

12 minutes ago, Mcguinnessp1968 said:

 

 

You speak as though Australia is some sort of utopia where dodgy practices don’t exist
Every developed country has the same issues, there are many jobs which locals just don’t want to do but someone has to do them.
Here in the UK is bonkers at the moment with Brexit, but what the government fail to realise is that if they cut all migration the country would literally grind to a halt.
What Australia is currently doing is no different to the isolationism the UK and US are currently trying, however it is short sighted.
I watched a film the other night about the financial crash and a comment made at the end was that governments will do what they always do in a crisis which is blame the poor and the immigrants. That to me is exactly what is going on in Australia the US and the UK

 

Well actually I far from think Australia is utopia. You obviously have read many of my posts. Poor work practice exits here as anywhere. Even more in some cases. Bullying is far from non existent and Australian working life is becoming ever more pressured. In fact a UN survey released recently, shows Australia in very poor light, with regards work/life balance.

As for Brexit more immigration still came from outside EU last time I looked. European migration will be unlikely to 'dry up' as big business will win concessions. Especially the financial area in London.

Australia is far removed from 'isolationism'. Where did you get that idea. We are running an immigration on full hilt. Close to record numbers and one of the largest population growths in the world, for a western developed nation.

Australia is not yet anti immigration in the broader sense of the term, but pressure  and anger are certainly building with declining living standards and too many emigrants going only to Sydney and Melbourne. The infrastructure is sadly ever lacking and wages stagnating in many areas. No political party will touch the issue of a Big Australia, which by the way is largely the reason property houses remain so over valued.

I don't think the poor are being blamed as such. An ugly policy was conducted against refugees and asylum seekers which continues on some with particular visa's by having there $200 a week withdrawn in order to force them out of the country.

Some are a bit rude on rich overseas investors and rightly so.  But hopefully we can bring our immigration policy around to sensible levels and prevent some of the ugliness found in Britain, among others against immigrants and those who are different.

[Starrynight]

How are you in same position? Are you in Australia on a 457 too?

[Starrynight]

1 hour ago, Mcguinnessp1968 said:

 

I fear you are banging your head off a brick wall.
I presume the route to PR you are referring to is the 186 TRT stream?
If so then you are entirely right in my opinion to quote this as a route to PR from a 457.
However I would say it is what it is and no amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth is going to change the situation. And I speak as someone in exactly the same position.
 

 

How are you in same position may I ask? Are you here on a 457 visa too with changes having been made?

[Mcguinnessp1968]

How are you in same position may I ask? Are you here on a 457 visa too with changes having been made?

No my situation is slightly different in that my 457 has recently been granted but I haven’t travelled yet, however I’m 49 so my pathway to the 186 has gone, however I did start the process before the rule changes.
I’m still coming over, as things stand I can renew my visa once so it’s a minimum 4 year opportunity possibly 8

[Starrynight]

41 minutes ago, Mcguinnessp1968 said:

No my situation is slightly different in that my 457 has recently been granted but I haven’t travelled yet, however I’m 49 so my pathway to the 186 has gone, however I did start the process before the rule changes.
I’m still coming over, as things stand I can renew my visa once so it’s a minimum 4 year opportunity possibly 8

Oh I see ...I have to say I wouldn't have come if there was no chance of PR, but now that I am here it has been amazing and it will be something I would never forget or regret (if it doesn't work out).

[Mcguinnessp1968]

Oh I see [emoji20]...I have to say I wouldn't have come if there was no chance of PR, but now that I am here it has been amazing and it will be something I would never forget or regret (if it doesn't work out).

Yeah I’m looking forward to it, I’m a single guy so I’m pretty laid back about it

[Raul Senise]

12 hours ago, Pura Vida said:

Australia is not yet anti immigration in the broader sense of the term, but pressure  and anger are certainly building with declining living standards and too many emigrants going only to Sydney and Melbourne. The infrastructure is sadly ever lacking and wages stagnating in many areas. No political party will touch the issue of a Big Australia, which by the way is largely the reason property houses remain so over valued.

I don't think the poor are being blamed as such. An ugly policy was conducted against refugees and asylum seekers which continues on some with particular visa's by having there $200 a week withdrawn in order to force them out of the country.

Some are a bit rude on rich overseas investors and rightly so.  But hopefully we can bring our immigration policy around to sensible levels and prevent some of the ugliness found in Britain, among others against immigrants and those who are different.

You do realise that this is a thread about the subclass 457 visa? You seem to be blaming the subclass 457 visa for overpopulation, infrastructure problems, the refugee issue, etc. It is obvious that you have an axe to grind about Immigration to Australia, but this thread is about changes to THE SUBCLASS 457 PROGRAM. 

None of the above has anything to do with 457!

13 hours ago, Pura Vida said:

This and ever more workers being brought out on minimal permitted rates to work for example on construction sites, (yes, three out of five around me, inner city Perth, appear to have an over reliance of near neighbour construction workers) (In fact the other day, down the road from me as I was walking past, a foul mouthed Aussie foreman (I expect his rank) was giving a pile of crude abuse to a group of Asian workers, for a good minute. Right opposite a primary school as well. It tool all my will not to shout at him. Probably by the way, but I found it highly offensive, wondering if Aussie or PR residents would put up with such a tongue lashing.

This is a huge generalisation and shows how one sided and biased your thinking really is:

1) How do you know that 3 out of 5 are foreign workers. Can you tell who is an Australian just be looking at them? If someone is Asian of appearance, does that mean they must be a foreigner?

2) Labourers on job sites are very unlikely to be on 457 visas. The vast majority of foreign labourers on job sites are either on working holiday visas or student visas. Again, nothing to do with the 457 which you criticise.

3) This shows how easily you form opinions without knowing the facts. You have made huge generalisations and assumptions, which are probably wrong, based on your observation of a single work site which you walked past. Yet you continue to argue your point with someone who as over a decade of hands on, first hand, industry experience, specif to the topic.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Raul Senise

[Guest263228]

On ‎20‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 05:29, Raul Senise said:

You do realise that this is a thread about the subclass 457 visa? You seem to be blaming the subclass 457 visa for overpopulation, infrastructure problems, the refugee issue, etc. It is obvious that you have an axe to grind about Immigration to Australia, but this thread is about changes to THE SUBCLASS 457 PROGRAM. 

None of the above has anything to do with 457!

This is a huge generalisation and shows how one sided and biased your thinking really is:

1) How do you know that 3 out of 5 are foreign workers. Can you tell who is an Australian just be looking at them? If someone is Asian of appearance, does that mean they must be a foreigner?

2) Labourers on job sites are very unlikely to be on 457 visas. The vast majority of foreign labourers on job sites are either on working holiday visas or student visas. Again, nothing to do with the 457 which you criticise.

3) This shows how easily you form opinions without knowing the facts. You have made huge generalisations and assumptions, which are probably wrong, based on your observation of a single work site which you walked past. Yet you continue to argue your point with someone who as over a decade of hands on, first hand, industry experience, specif to the topic.

Yes I do realise, but just reflect on a bigger picture, with regards to overall immigration abuse, in terms of 457 and present policy. The continued near record immigration numbers from varied sources be that from 457, WHV Student Visa or the more traditional route

No these workers are not WHV employees although I am fully aware they are employed on construction sites. The workers I refer have limited English capacity, tend to be Korean and  some Chinese. Please give some credit. Large  numbers of Asian workers on construction sites, usually non unionised with limited English, are highly likely to be imported labour than folk living here. Three sites in my location use such workers.  have witnessed new arrivals in the city being escorted (all dressed identically and older than students and most back packers) having lived in Asia a number of years, I am able to tell tourists apart from working labourers.

You do not comment on the sudden rapid increase of bus drivers, security staff, cleaners, super market staff, mostly from The Sub Continent as necessary being a desirable situation. 

My comments are neither biased nor one sided. The  immigration process has been running at record numbers, a tool of government to maintain GDP and of course prevent correction in the housing market. The abuse of the 457 is just one by product of an overall unsatisfactory policy and if allowed to continue would likely have a detrimental  impact on immigration in general.

Anyway feel free to differ of course, but the situation is as it is.

[ramot]

What visa would these construction workers be on out of interest? are they on the 457 visa? This is a genuine question as this is a thread about the 457 visa because when my daughter was on a 457 visa there was a minimum wage she had to earn and I think it's about $53,000 annually now. Would they be earning this much? She was pretty highly qualified and English was her spoken language, and to get her visa she had to prove her qualifications.

 

Edited September 25, 2017 by ramot

[Noggers]

So much misinformation. 186 TRT still exists for 457 holders. 

 

Read 

[Mcguinnessp1968]

What visa would these construction workers be on out of interest? are they on the 457 visa? This is a genuine question as this is a thread about the 457 visa because when my daughter was on a 457 visa there was a minimum wage she had to earn and I think it's about $53,000 annually now. Would they be earning this much? She was pretty highly qualified and English was her spoken language, and to get her visa she had to prove her qualifications.
 

Of course they aren’t on 457 visas, as someone who has just received theirs I can testify to that

The person in question is simply ranting a lot of nonsense without actually making a specific point

[Raul Senise]

17 hours ago, Pura Vida said:

Yes I do realise, but just reflect on a bigger picture, with regards to overall immigration abuse, in terms of 457 and present policy. The continued near record immigration numbers from varied sources be that from 457, WHV Student Visa or the more traditional route

No these workers are not WHV employees although I am fully aware they are employed on construction sites. The workers I refer have limited English capacity, tend to be Korean and  some Chinese. Please give some credit. Large  numbers of Asian workers on construction sites, usually non unionised with limited English, are highly likely to be imported labour than folk living here. Three sites in my location use such workers.  have witnessed new arrivals in the city being escorted (all dressed identically and older than students and most back packers) having lived in Asia a number of years, I am able to tell tourists apart from working labourers.

You do not comment on the sudden rapid increase of bus drivers, security staff, cleaners, super market staff, mostly from The Sub Continent as necessary being a desirable situation. 

My comments are neither biased nor one sided. The  immigration process has been running at record numbers, a tool of government to maintain GDP and of course prevent correction in the housing market. The abuse of the 457 is just one by product of an overall unsatisfactory policy and if allowed to continue would likely have a detrimental  impact on immigration in general.

Anyway feel free to differ of course, but the situation is as it is.

This will be my last response to your comments as you are making less sense and going more off topic, with every post. Again this is about the Subclass 457 visa.

Just pointing out a few glaring mistakes for you:

• There is no age limit for student visas. As such you can not gauge if someone is on a student visa based on age;
• The subclass 457 visa has an English language requirement, no exceptions;
• Bus drivers, security staff, cleaners, super market staff are all occupations which CAN NOT be sponsored for a subclass 457 visa;
• 457 numbers have continued to fall. Last year approximately 85 thousand were granted. That's about 0.3% of the population. This is compared to 310,845 student visa.

If you want to argue against Immigration in general, please start a new thread because your comments thus far are way off the mark in regards to the subclass 457 program.

 

 

[Guest263228]

On ‎25‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 17:23, Mcguinnessp1968 said:

Of course they aren’t on 457 visas, as someone who has just received theirs I can testify to that

The person in question is simply ranting a lot of nonsense without actually making a specific point

Really? And why of course not? Just what visa are they on in your opinion then? Ranting nonsense? The point being, which has long been proved to be the case, is the abuse of the 457 visa. The lack of market place testing. I'm afraid it is wearing very thin with a number of people here in the know.