Ban unskilled workers wanting UK

[BacktoDemocracy]

53 minutes ago, Rallyman said:

Maybe because the immigration into the uk is taking all the green field sites to build houses ,its common knowledge that the uk has a major housing shortage 

I know of at least 3 farms that have gone completely in the area I grew up in as they sold their land off to builders / developers 

It's always the fault of them immigrants whatever is wrong, but that's nothing to do with not liking them is it.

[Rallyman]

2 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

It's always the fault of them immigrants whatever is wrong, but that's nothing to do with not liking them is it.

So you don't think that there is a housing shortage in uk then ? Net migration into uk is around 330k per year  the uk can't keep up with demand for existing people in uk never mind the extra year on year  

You need to control immigration you simply can't have open boarders like it is at present in the EU 

i am not blaming the migrants I blame the unelected  eu making laws to allow this to happen ,

 

[newjez]

4 hours ago, VERYSTORMY said:

Two different issues. Labour and Tory have allowed lack of investment in training which is nothing to do with Brexit. I totally agree we need to train more. I also think uni should be free and all education free. 

You are finally right about something. This has nothing to do with brexit.

[newjez]

2 hours ago, Keith and Linda said:

Wherever I have gone in this world it is my skills that have enabled me to do so. Would I, as an unskilled worker, even have tried? I doubt that the thought would have entered my head.

When my son had his operation there was a cleaner who was from eastern Europe. Best cleaner I've ever seen. He was an architect I think, (it was a while ago), but needed to do a years bridging course before he could work in the UK. How would that work if we banned unskilled labour?

[newjez]

32 minutes ago, Rallyman said:

So you don't think that there is a housing shortage in uk then ? Net migration into uk is around 330k per year  the uk can't keep up with demand for existing people in uk never mind the extra year on year  

You need to control immigration you simply can't have open boarders like it is at present in the EU 

i am not blaming the migrants I blame the unelected  eu making laws to allow this to happen ,

 

Is there a housing crisis in Australia? What's happening with Sydney housing prices? What caused this? Skilled or unskilled labour? Or poor control on foreign investment?

 

Oh, and is the governor of the bank of England elected? How much of the officials in the public service are elected? 

[Keith and Linda]

28 minutes ago, newjez said:

When my son had his operation there was a cleaner who was from eastern Europe. Best cleaner I've ever seen. He was an architect I think, (it was a while ago), but needed to do a years bridging course before he could work in the UK. How would that work if we banned unskilled labour?

But why would he need do his bridging course in the UK? Also surly he did not come to do an unskilled job but he did prevent another unskilled worker from having that cleaners job, a job which they could well have had longer term employment from.

By the way I have experienced some excellent British cleaners and some crap foreign ones.

[Gbye grey sky]

The only way to establish definitively whether unskilled or semi-skilled immigration has been or is good, bad or irrelevant to the success of the UK economy is to stop it.  I have my own view on what is likely to transpire.

To those who point to Australian policy of stopping unskilled immigration they are largely disregarding the substantial contribution of WHVs.  The UK could adopt WHVs but would struggle with overstayers I suspect and is the UK attractive to backpackers?  Australia also has a substantially higher minimum wage than the UK making unskilled jobs more viable to locals than is the case in the UK.  If the UK adopted this strategy it would be great for low paid workers but tough to keep British businesses competitive especially if facing tariffs from the main export market.

Australia and the UK do not stand comparison.  Australia relies heavily on mining and agriculture and Britain on the service sectors.

[Skani]

On 4/12/2017 at 2:57 AM, BacktoDemocracy said:

I don't think Australia picks much except fruit and bananas and those are picked by idiots on WHV's, the equal of east Europeans, but most of their agricultural income comes from meat exports.

About 60,000 people work in  fruit, vegetable and nut production ...and a huge proportion of those would be pickers.   

Meat accounts for only a quarter of total agricutural production and agricultural exports.

[Rallyman]

2 hours ago, newjez said:

Is there a housing crisis in Australia? What's happening with Sydney housing prices? What caused this? Skilled or unskilled labour? Or poor control on foreign investment?

 

Oh, and is the governor of the bank of England elected? How much of the officials in the public service are elected? 

Sorry don't get what you are saying thought the thread was about the uk nothing  to do with sydney , not sure where the Bank of England comes into it you have totally lost me on that .

you are pro EU and happy with it as it is fair enough 

i am going to bow out and just follow as I don't think you understand the original post 

[Guest263228]

On ‎11‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 3:55 AM, VERYSTORMY said:

The entire UK agriculture industry is worth just over £5 billion. Australia exports alone about 6 times that, yet the last time I looked Australia doesn't have millions of Eastern European potato pickers. It is a fallacy. 

Of course they don't. If they could though I'd suggest they would.(or some) What Oz does have is many tens of thousands of back packers, from around the globe, 'encouraged' by means of an additional year 'bribe' to remain in the country , working rurally picking fruit and the like, in some dire conditions at times, including being ripped off and abused. Not by all of course, but still greater regulation may well better for all concerned.

 

[Guest263228]

5 hours ago, Rallyman said:

So you don't think that there is a housing shortage in uk then ? Net migration into uk is around 330k per year  the uk can't keep up with demand for existing people in uk never mind the extra year on year  

You need to control immigration you simply can't have open boarders like it is at present in the EU 

i am not blaming the migrants I blame the unelected  eu making laws to allow this to happen ,

 

Unelected EU making it happen? Here's me thinking it was the Blair government placing UK on the front line allowing immigration from new member states, along with Ireland and Sweden. All other EU had a period of three years wait before 'free access'.

Not forgetting the eighties when EU nationals could claim housing benefit and dole. This was well known to many, especially Italians and French. For some funny reason it didn't work the other way though. Talk about encouragement to come to UK for a 'free' holiday stay and learn the language as well as get paid for it.

[simmo]

nothing most people didn't already know but now backed up with ONS stats.

Quote

 

EU migrants of working age living in the UK who do not have a job account for a city the size of Bristol, new figures have revealed.

One in seven of the 2,733,000 EU migrants aged 16-64 - a total of 390,000 - are unemployed or “inactive”.

A survey by the Office for National Statistics does not give a breakdown of how many claim benefits, but those who are unemployed will be eligible for jobseeker’s allowance and may also claim housing benefit and child benefit. People who are “inactive” include those claiming disability benefits.

Brexit campaigners said the figures showed the need to freeze migration for unskilled workers after Britain leaves the EU.

 

Quote

Not all migrants are economically active and their presence adds pressures to hospitals, schools and housing, which are in danger of becoming unsustainable. 

As Alp Mehmet of Migration Watch says: “Business must now focus on recruiting and training from the domestic workforce and wean itself off the cheaper east European option.” 

This may present problems after Brexit for we are used to EU workers doing the jobs that many Britons have not been prepared to do. 

This has to change and it presents a real challenge for the industries and areas of employment that have been used to cheap EU workers for a long time.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/12/eu-migrants-without-job-make-city-size-bristol/

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/791271/uk-jobs-employment-eu-workers-migrants

[Keith and Linda]

1 hour ago, Pura Vida said:

Of course they don't. If they could though I'd suggest they would.(or some) What Oz does have is many tens of thousands of back packers, from around the globe, 'encouraged' by means of an additional year 'bribe' to remain in the country , working rurally picking fruit and the like, in some dire conditions at times, including being ripped off and abused. Not by all of course, but still greater regulation may well better for all concerned.

 

It's actually an option on condition of entry not a bribe it is upto the individual to accept or not and follow the conditions either way.

[BacktoDemocracy]

11 hours ago, Rallyman said:

So you don't think that there is a housing shortage in uk then ? Net migration into uk is around 330k per year  the uk can't keep up with demand for existing people in uk never mind the extra year on year  

You need to control immigration you simply can't have open boarders like it is at present in the EU 

i am not blaming the migrants I blame the unelected  eu making laws to allow this to happen ,

 

Nothing to do with planning restrictions, land banking by the  major builders, LA's prevented from building low cost housing, restrictions on housing assoc's building, builders restricting supply to increase profits, overseas investment in buying up housing and leaving it empty, lack of trained personnel to build, lack of professional staff to oversee builders working on new construction resulting in poor quality construction, restrictions on access to mortgages, collusion between Tory MP's and builders to mimnimise housing production to boost prices and inflate building company shares.

The EU did all of that did they.

[newjez]

8 hours ago, Rallyman said:

Sorry don't get what you are saying thought the thread was about the uk nothing  to do with sydney , not sure where the Bank of England comes into it you have totally lost me on that .

you are pro EU and happy with it as it is fair enough 

i am going to bow out and just follow as I don't think you understand the original post 

First point, you are saying there is a housing crisis in the UK caused by uncontrolled unskilled immigration. But Australia has controlled immigration and also has a housing crisis. So how will shifting the UK to controlled immigration solve the housing crisis, when it obviously hasn't controlled Australias?

Mainly because controlled immigration is just a level of inefficiency on top of market forces.

[newjez]

8 hours ago, Rallyman said:

Sorry don't get what you are saying thought the thread was about the uk nothing  to do with sydney , not sure where the Bank of England comes into it you have totally lost me on that .

you are pro EU and happy with it as it is fair enough 

i am going to bow out and just follow as I don't think you understand the original post 

I am pro EU as a trading group. I am anti euro. What I was stating is that there are unelected officials in the UK government who are often not answerable to government such as the chair of the bank of England. Is this so different to the EU? Would it increase the efficiency of the EU if all officials were elected? 

[newjez]

6 hours ago, simmo said:

nothing most people didn't already know but now backed up with ONS stats.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/12/eu-migrants-without-job-make-city-size-bristol/

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/791271/uk-jobs-employment-eu-workers-migrants

Wives?

[Rallyman]

56 minutes ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

Nothing to do with planning restrictions, land banking by the  major builders, LA's prevented from building low cost housing, restrictions on housing assoc's building, builders restricting supply to increase profits, overseas investment in buying up housing and leaving it empty, lack of trained personnel to build, lack of professional staff to oversee builders working on new construction resulting in poor quality construction, restrictions on access to mortgages, collusion between Tory MP's and builders to mimnimise housing production to boost prices and inflate building company shares.

The EU did all of that did they.

Total BS 

[BacktoDemocracy]

46 minutes ago, Rallyman said:

Total BS 

What! Non of that is a reason for a shortage of housing in the Uk, well I suppose denial and blaming migration and the EU is the only option or the world will spin off its axis if reason has to be acknowledged.

[newjez]

24 minutes ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

What! Non of that is a reason for a shortage of housing in the Uk, well I suppose denial and blaming migration and the EU is the only option or the world will spin off its axis if reason has to be acknowledged.

Immigration will put pressure on housing. People need somewhere to live, and if you have more people. But saying skilled migration will put less pressure on housing than non skilled is just silly. And the article was suggesting we stop unskilled and increase skilled.

[newjez]

7 hours ago, simmo said:

nothing most people didn't already know but now backed up with ONS stats.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/12/eu-migrants-without-job-make-city-size-bristol/

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/791271/uk-jobs-employment-eu-workers-migrants

And, this percentage will probably increase with skilled migration as there will be less need for the spouse to work.

[Rallyman]

9 minutes ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

What! Non of that is a reason for a shortage of housing in the Uk, well I suppose denial and blaming migration and the EU is the only option or the world will spin off its axis if reason has to be acknowledged.

Not sure what planet you are on  do you work in construction? 

I can only speak of my own experience, Green belt land is being built on all across the uk , they have relaxed planning rules to get more houses built,nothing to do with Tory mp's and builders trying to boost prices.

Incase  you didn't know new developments have to have a larger percentage of affordable housing and it's requirements are increasing 

There is no shortage of building inspectors to check work is complying with current regulations developers can go with local authorities or NHBC if they wish ,you will always get good and bad workmanship but this also relates to training your workforce as pointed out in previous posts, hence the original post about skilled migration 

Having been the senior contracts manager for a house building company building around 250 homes a year we never held back if we could sell,  you are in la la land companies need cash flow you don't get that by holding back stock. We were always planning 2-3-4 years down the line to keep moving forward and retain the excellent work force we had. 

Imigration has driven labour rates down this is a well know fact, what seems to be going over your head is the amount of immigration year on year into the uk, putting extra demand on a shortage of housing to meet current levels of people already living in the uk , you need to be able to control this and as it stands the uk can't do this being a member. 

[simmo]

spot on (and worth repeating)

[newjez]

6 minutes ago, Rallyman said:

Not sure what planet you are on  do you work in construction? 

I can only speak of my own experience, Green belt land is being built on all across the uk , they have relaxed planning rules to get more houses built,nothing to do with Tory mp's and builders trying to boost prices.

Incase  you didn't know new developments have to have a larger percentage of affordable housing and it's requirements are increasing 

There is no shortage of building inspectors to check work is complying with current regulations developers can go with local authorities or NHBC if they wish ,you will always get good and bad workmanship but this also relates to training your workforce as pointed out in previous posts, hence the original post about skilled migration 

Having been the senior contracts manager for a house building company building around 250 homes a year we never held back if we could sell,  you are in la la land companies need cash flow you don't get that by holding back stock. We were always planning 2-3-4 years down the line to keep moving forward and retain the excellent work force we had. 

Imigration has driven labour rates down this is a well know fact, what seems to be going over your head is the amount of immigration year on year into the uk, putting extra demand on a shortage of housing to meet current levels of people already living in the uk , you need to be able to control this and as it stands the uk can't do this being a member. 

I do agree with this. But you seem to be under some strange miss understanding that all this will change with brexit. It won't. Australia, with it's controls, is in no better situation than the UK.

[BacktoDemocracy]

7 minutes ago, newjez said:

Immigration will put pressure on housing. People need somewhere to live, and if you have more people. But saying skilled migration will put less pressure on housing than non skilled is just silly. And the article was suggesting we stop unskilled and increase skilled.

My point remains the same, if migrants are here doing a job, whether skilled or unskilled, and paying taxes then they should have access to housing, my other point is that there is a complete failure to build sufficient low cost housing and this has been happening for all the period of Tory rule, production has been 20% below that required, my other point is that the demand for migrant labour is generated by employers and the govt, another point is that many migrant workers are transient so their demand for housing is not for permanent housing.