Ban unskilled workers wanting UK

[Guest The Pom Queen]

 

Unskilled migrants should be stopped from moving to Britain for five years to help reduce net migration, a report by a pro-Brexit group has said.

Leave Means Leave, which is backed by senior Tory backbenchers, says the measure would help get net migration below 50,000.

It is currently running at 273,000 a year.

Anti-Brexit campaigners said such a move would cause skills shortages that would damage business and the NHS.

Leave Means Leave wants to combine the Australian points-based system with plans for work permits which would come into force after the UK has left the European Union.

The report is authored by independent MEP Steven Woolfe, who quit UKIP following an altercation with a colleague that left him in hospital.

In a speech on Monday, Mr Woolfe will say: "We need an immigration system that is fair, flexible and forward-thinking. 

"It must be fair in its outlook, flexible in practice and forward-thinking for our economy.

"Brexit is not about splendid isolation - it's about re-engaging with the world, without our wings clipped by the European Union."

But he said introducing "strict controls, an annual cap and a five-year freeze on unskilled migrants" would "reduce net migration year-on-year, lessen the strain on our public services and help build a more cohesive society".

Asked on Sky News about claims his plan would deliver a huge blow to the UK economy, he said that view was based on the idea of a mass exodus of migrants which he did not believe would happen, adding that his plan would lead to a more gentle reduction.

Conservative former Cabinet minister Owen Paterson, a member of Leave Means Leave, said the "overwhelming majority of Britons feel absolutely no resentment towards workers or students from overseas".

But he added: "Mass migration at its current level has fostered resentment, depressed wages and placed an excessive burden on our public services."

The report was condemned by members of the cross-party Open Britain group.

Conservative MP Anna Soubry said: "We have seen encouraging signs from the prime minister that she accepts and understands the reality facing British business - they will continue to need overseas workers for years to come. 

"Migrant workers contribute to our economy and to British culture - we should be welcoming them in the traditional spirit of British tolerance. 

"Leave Means Leave clearly don't understand why British business relies on migrant workers."

Labour's Pat McFadden said the prime minister faced a choice between going "down the road advocated by this kind of plan" or taking a "more realistic and honest approach to the Brexit negotiations on immigration and other matters". 

Under the Leave Means Leave plan, there would be no cap on highly skilled workers, entrepreneurs or investors but unskilled visas would be halted for five years.

Work permits would only be granted if the applicant had a job offer with a minimum £35,000 salary and had passed an English language test, signed a five-year private health insurance contract and had savings in the bank.

Up to 50,000 temporary work permits would be issued initially for agricultural workers, tapering off to zero by the third year.

There would be no restrictions on the numbers of students who wanted to head to the UK.

Exemptions would be made for health workers if they were needed from overseas but the report says the focus should be on increasing the number of Britons working in the medical profession.

EU nationals already settled in the UK would have the right to remain indefinitely as long as Brussels adopted the same approach to UK citizens living in Europe, the report says.

But the government should immediately announce a cut-off date for when new arrivals stop qualifying, tit added.

[simmo]

whats not to like.  It makes perfect sense (what i read)

[VERYSTORMY]

I would go a lot further and say unskilled should be banned full stop. 

[simmo]

3 minutes ago, VERYSTORMY said:

I would go a lot further and say unskilled should be banned full stop. 

who will pick the spuds?

[VERYSTORMY]

58 minutes ago, simmo said:

who will pick the spuds?

The entire UK agriculture industry is worth just over £5 billion. Australia exports alone about 6 times that, yet the last time I looked Australia doesn't have millions of Eastern European potato pickers. It is a fallacy. 

[BritChickx]

I agree with it. Everyone coming here should be skilled unless they're a student or a spouse of a Brirish Citizen.

[BritChickx]

Im glad they're considering making health care roles exemplary though as most nurses earn less than 35k. Obviously its better to train more British but im sure we'll still need people from overseas.

[doubter]

1 hour ago, BritChickx said:

Im glad they're considering making health care roles exemplary though as most nurses earn less than 35k. Obviously its better to train more British but im sure we'll still need people from overseas.

Definitely need nurses from overseas after Jeremy Hunt stopped the funding for healthcare students in England. NHS bursary and  tution fees are still funded in Wales and make a big difference.

[BacktoDemocracy]

21 hours ago, VERYSTORMY said:

The entire UK agriculture industry is worth just over £5 billion. Australia exports alone about 6 times that, yet the last time I looked Australia doesn't have millions of Eastern European potato pickers. It is a fallacy. 

I don't think Australia picks much except fruit and bananas and those are picked by idiots on WHV's, the equal of east Europeans, but most of their agricultural income comes from meat exports.

[doubter]

15 minutes ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

I don't think Australia picks much except fruit and bananas and those are picked by idiots on WHV's, the equal of east Europeans, but most of their agricultural income comes from meat exports.

Bit harsh to say they are idiots just because they pick fruit on WHVs. They work damn hard and choose to do it to fund their travels and hell of a lot go on to professional careers. The Australian agriculture industry relies on them and are upset the Aussie Government have introduced the backpacker tax which may impact their workers.

[BacktoDemocracy]

It's cloud cuckoo land, if they cut immigration to below 50,000 then the UK is going to come to a stand still because there are so many so-called unskilled jobs which indigenous workers do not have the skills to do or do not live in the right area.

And just as an aside why is immigration such an abiding concern of these brexit pressure groups.

Successive UK govts have created a demand for cheap labour throughout the economy, not the EU, so that demand is not going to go away because we leave the EU.

I just saw a report that 1000 people leave social care jobs each day in the UK with an estimated 50% of them leaving the sector permanently,   

 

[BacktoDemocracy]

6 minutes ago, doubter said:

Bit harsh to say they are idiots just because they pick fruit on WHVs. They work damn hard and choose to do it to fund their travels and hell of a lot go on to professional careers. The Australian agriculture industry relies on them and are upset the Aussie Government have introduced the backpacker tax which may impact their workers.

I use the term idiot only in the sense that they are exploited by the Australian agricultural industries and govt.

[Gbye grey sky]

42 minutes ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

It's cloud cuckoo land, if they cut immigration to below 50,000 then the UK is going to come to a stand still because there are so many so-called unskilled jobs which indigenous workers do not have the skills to do or do not live in the right area.

And just as an aside why is immigration such an abiding concern of these brexit pressure groups.

Successive UK govts have created a demand for cheap labour throughout the economy, not the EU, so that demand is not going to go away because we leave the EU.

I just saw a report that 1000 people leave social care jobs each day in the UK with an estimated 50% of them leaving the sector permanently,   

 

I think that they should implement something like this though.  It is in essence addressing the primary concern of the majority who voted for Leave after all.  Even for those that voted Remain the net migration figures were a major concern.

Then at least the actual impact on the economy could be assessed and it will become apparent whether the influx of unskilled and semi-skilled workers on low wages had benefited the UK economy. 

Easy for me to say, I know, because I am in Oz.  Can't see it happening though as the main beneficiaries of cheap immigrant labour are businesses and the Tories will not be upsetting them. 

[VERYSTORMY]

1 hour ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

I don't think Australia picks much except fruit and bananas and those are picked by idiots on WHV's, the equal of east Europeans, but most of their agricultural income comes from meat exports.

False. Look at the stats. 

[VERYSTORMY]

1 hour ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

It's cloud cuckoo land, if they cut immigration to below 50,000 then the UK is going to come to a stand still because there are so many so-called unskilled jobs which indigenous workers do not have the skills to do or do not live in the right area.

And just as an aside why is immigration such an abiding concern of these brexit pressure groups.

Successive UK govts have created a demand for cheap labour throughout the economy, not the EU, so that demand is not going to go away because we leave the EU.

I just saw a report that 1000 people leave social care jobs each day in the UK with an estimated 50% of them leaving the sector permanently,   

 

Yes, we have a skills issue. The reason we have a skills issue is that since cheap migrant labour became available employers have cut their training by over half. Why bother training when their is a never ending pool of cheap labour. 

[VERYSTORMY]

Let me give a good example. Not far from where I work is the Clyde Ship builders. A place that had year on year taken on hundreds of apprentices. Much needed as Glasgow has a long term problem with youth unemployment. Today, they take almost none. Why? Well, have a walk down there. Instead of a load of apprentices you will find migrants. Cheaper to employ, do not need that horrid training budget and who gives a crap about the young anyway. It seems certainly not the left. 

[newjez]

1 hour ago, VERYSTORMY said:

Yes, we have a skills issue. The reason we have a skills issue is that since cheap migrant labour became available employers have cut their training by over half. Why bother training when their is a never ending pool of cheap labour. 

So, you increase your training budget, and also increase your wages due to lack of competition with foreign labour, so you increase your costs and prices. Who are you going to sell to?

Brexit gives us back control. Control of what? Control to implement the same with non EU labour because we can't change the world.

[VERYSTORMY]

9 hours ago, newjez said:

So, you increase your training budget, and also increase your wages due to lack of competition with foreign labour, so you increase your costs and prices. Who are you going to sell to?

Brexit gives us back control. Control of what? Control to implement the same with non EU labour because we can't change the world.

First, yes we need to increase wages. Over half of workers are earning less today than a decade ago. 

Who are we going to sell to? You do understand that Brexit means we are leaving the EU not being towed to the dark side of the moon. Did you know that of the 10 countries that have expanded sales to the EU the most, six have done so without a trade agreement and on WTO rules. At the same time, while being a member, UK sales to the EU have fallen. 

Worrying about competing on price is stupid from a business view as most of what we can sell, is also manufactured in places like China for a fraction of cost. Instead as we do now, we rely on quality to compete. 

[Gbye grey sky]

11 hours ago, VERYSTORMY said:

Yes, we have a skills issue. The reason we have a skills issue is that since cheap migrant labour became available employers have cut their training by over half. Why bother training when their is a never ending pool of cheap labour. 

Isn't the proposed restriction on unskilled labour though?

[Collie]

Very short sighted.  Not thinking through the economics of it all.  Immigration is about economics.

Reduce supply of unskilled labour = higher demand for unskilled labour = increased cost of unskilled labour= increased prices = inflation & reduced domestic competitiveness = reduced demand for domestic products = out of business eventually = being 100% reliant on imports & increased trade deficits = Austerity to reduce the cost of the welfare state = lower standard of living.  UK (like a lot of countries) needs the immigrants to pay the taxes for the pensions & social provisions for an aging population (pensions timebomb anybody?)

On agriculture, the UK is broadly fed by countries in the EU who have high agricultural exports (Ireland, France, Netherlands etc).  Prices of some items have already increased due to the fall in GBP.  If there are tarriffs imposed that will only increase prices further for UK citizens.

I am often surprised at the anti-immigrant stance taken on this forum.  As it is Poms in Oz, is it safe to assume that the majority of posters are actually immigrants (to Australia) themselves?  Please pause here for thought. 

[Keith and Linda]

11 minutes ago, Collie said:

Very short sighted.  Not thinking through the economics of it all.  Immigration is about economics.

Reduce supply of unskilled labour = higher demand for unskilled labour = increased cost of unskilled labour= increased prices = inflation & reduced domestic competitiveness = reduced demand for domestic products = out of business eventually = being 100% reliant on imports & increased trade deficits = Austerity to reduce the cost of the welfare state = lower standard of living.  UK (like a lot of countries) needs the immigrants to pay the taxes for the pensions & social provisions for an aging population (pensions timebomb anybody?)

On agriculture, the UK is broadly fed by countries in the EU who have high agricultural exports (Ireland, France, Netherlands etc).  Prices of some items have already increased due to the fall in GBP.  If there are tarriffs imposed that will only increase prices further for UK citizens.

I am often surprised at the anti-immigrant stance taken on this forum.  As it is Poms in Oz, is it safe to assume that the majority of posters are actually immigrants (to Australia) themselves?  Please pause here for thought. 

so immigrants come into UK to work and keep british economy turning over whilst  British workers emigrate to keep other countries economies turning

[amibovered]

42 minutes ago, Collie said:

Very short sighted.  Not thinking through the economics of it all.  Immigration is about economics.

Reduce supply of unskilled labour = higher demand for unskilled labour = increased cost of unskilled labour= increased prices = inflation & reduced domestic competitiveness = reduced demand for domestic products = out of business eventually = being 100% reliant on imports & increased trade deficits = Austerity to reduce the cost of the welfare state = lower standard of living.  UK (like a lot of countries) needs the immigrants to pay the taxes for the pensions & social provisions for an aging population (pensions timebomb anybody?)

On agriculture, the UK is broadly fed by countries in the EU who have high agricultural exports (Ireland, France, Netherlands etc).  Prices of some items have already increased due to the fall in GBP.  If there are tarriffs imposed that will only increase prices further for UK citizens.

I am often surprised at the anti-immigrant stance taken on this forum.  As it is Poms in Oz, is it safe to assume that the majority of posters are actually immigrants (to Australia) themselves?  Please pause here for thought. 

What chance would an unskilled worker have migrating to Australia? non, somehow controlled migration is all fine and dandy for Australia, but if the UK want the same thing it's because the place is full of stupid racists!! 

[Collie]

I never mentioned racists, My point was economics.

& I never said than Australian immigration policy is all fine and dandy - IMO it's not.  I laugh when I hear Australians saying that Australia is full.  Australia could easily accomodate a dozen more cities (ideally of 1 to 2m people which gives economies of scale of self sustainability) in habitable areas particularly along the southern coastline.  Of course, you couldn't do this overnight but does Australia want to be a lapdog to the US or China forever? 

The US is the largest economy in the world and the 20th century was the American century built by immigration ("give me your poor, your tired and your hungry"), most of whom were unskilled by the way.  People who have the drive and work ethic to seek a better life in a new country, by and large end up being net contributors to the economy of their adopted country and their children then positively.  Sergey Brin of Google & son of an immigrant made some interesting comments on this recently & Silicon Valley is full of companies started by 2nd generation of migrants.

Migration is now more and more common and basically a fact of life.  Ask the 1m or so Brits who have moved to Australia or the at least 1m or so who live throughout Europe.  Travel broadens the mind and the more people interact with people of different cultures and races, the more we realise that we have more in common than divides us and perhaps we would have less conflict in the world. 

 

 

[Collie]

57 minutes ago, Keith and Linda said:

so immigrants come into UK to work and keep british economy turning over whilst  British workers emigrate to keep other countries economies turning

Pretty much.  People migrant, people move.  Freedom of choice (within reason - I do accept that it is impractical to have completely open borders).

I assume you are British and migrated to Australia (as a PIO).  You are both an emigrant and immigrant.  & I assume you feel that you have contributed positively to Australia.

 

[BacktoDemocracy]

2 hours ago, amibovered said:

What chance would an unskilled worker have migrating to Australia? non, somehow controlled migration is all fine and dandy for Australia, but if the UK want the same thing it's because the place is full of stupid racists!! 

And how many of the immigrants to Australia get to be senior managers influencing policy and strategy,mmost of the migrants find themselves filling the jobs Australians don't want to do despite all the BS bureaucracy about only allowing skilled labour in, forget the skill, it's still about labour.