another e.u referendum question

[bunbury61]

With everything that's going on in the e.u now

 

Migration issues

A massive banking black hole

40 -60% youth unemployment in some countries

Huge sums of money unaccounted for

Knowing that the u.k would be paying £265 million NET per month to be in .

 

Knowing all this in 2016 ,what if we were having the vote to join the e.u ...would you vote to join or not ?

[bell123321]

In today's circumstances I would not vote to join the EU. I can kind of understand back in the 70s why they did but if they hadn't no I would not join the EU in today's circumstances as I'm not sure how it would benefit us by joining.

 

advettisement: Join the EU in return of your membership your pay £350 million a month and see less then half back. Bail out struggling countries such as 600 million loan to Greece. Be unable to trade globally without the permission of Brussells. No high power electrical items will be allowed to be sold in the UK. Also you will be given quotas to accept x amount of immigrants and have to allow other EU citizens to live in your country. Fancy signing up?

 

No

[newjez]

To be honest, no I wouldn't. But not joining is not the same as leaving. I wouldn't put barbed wire up my bum. But if it was there, I'd be tempted to leave it.

[bunbury61]

To be honest, no I wouldn't. But not joining is not the same as leaving. I wouldn't put barbed wire up my bum. But if it was there, I'd be tempted to leave it.

 

Using the barbed wire analogy .

Rather than risk further pain and injection ,I would bite the bullet and have it removed

[Bobj]

With everything that's going on in the e.u now

 

Migration issues

A massive banking black hole

40 -60% youth unemployment in some countries

Huge sums of money unaccounted for

Knowing that the u.k would be paying £265 million NET per month to be in .

 

Knowing all this in 2016 ,what if we were having the vote to join the e.u ...would you vote to join or not ?

 

A report I just read re Brexit:

 

[h=2]Brexit panic sends London shares sliding[/h] Britain’s stock market has hit a new three-month low as Brexit worries sweep through the City.

The blue-chip FTSE 100 index has closed down 121 points at 5923, its lowest level since late February, and its fourth day of heavy falls. That wipes around £30bn off its value.

The Footsie has now shed 378 points since the start of trading on Thursday, when Brexit fears began to mount.

That means a staggering £98bn has been wiped off the value of Britain’s biggest companies in four trading days.

Sterling is also languishing at two-month lows; the pound has lost 1.1% against the US dollar to $1.4108 at pixel time.

The TNS poll, showing a seven-point lead for the Leave campaign, sent shares down heavily in late trading.

Mining shares are among the top fallers, reflecting fears about the global economy.

Housebuilders such as Taylor Wimpey and Barratt Development also suffered falls; they would be hit by a decline in the UK housing market if the Bank of England raised interest rates to prop up sterling.

 

Hope the UK does the right thing.

 

Cheers, Bobj.

[newjez]

Using the barbed wire analogy .

Rather than risk further pain and injection ,I would bite the bullet and have it removed

 

Yes, but professionally. Would you really trust Boris with it?

[newjez]

A report I just read re Brexit:

 

Brexit panic sends London shares sliding

 

Britain’s stock market has hit a new three-month low as Brexit worries sweep through the City.

The blue-chip FTSE 100 index has closed down 121 points at 5923, its lowest level since late February, and its fourth day of heavy falls. That wipes around £30bn off its value.

The Footsie has now shed 378 points since the start of trading on Thursday, when Brexit fears began to mount.

That means a staggering £98bn has been wiped off the value of Britain’s biggest companies in four trading days.

Sterling is also languishing at two-month lows; the pound has lost 1.1% against the US dollar to $1.4108 at pixel time.

The TNS poll, showing a seven-point lead for the Leave campaign, sent shares down heavily in late trading.

Mining shares are among the top fallers, reflecting fears about the global economy.

Housebuilders such as Taylor Wimpey and Barratt Development also suffered falls; they would be hit by a decline in the UK housing market if the Bank of England raised interest rates to prop up sterling.

 

Hope the UK does the right thing.

 

Cheers, Bobj.

 

I'm voting stay, but I'm financially ready to leave.

[Wooba]

Yes, but professionally. Would you really trust Boris with it?

I'd rather have Boris leading me than Juncker, Van Rompuy or whoever the unelected bureaucrat forced upon me by Brussels is. At least he can be removed democratically!

 

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

[Parley]

The bookies are still predicting Remain vote to win.

[Guest Dave53]

In today's circumstances I would not vote to join the EU. I can kind of understand back in the 70s why they did but if they hadn't no I would not join the EU in today's circumstances as I'm not sure how it would benefit us by

 

No

 

 

It it should be remembered that in 1973 when the UK joined the Common Market as it was then called , there was no vote to join or not to . The electorate were not considered at that time . It was in 1975 when the first referendum was tabled to stay in or not that the public had any say , the vote of course favoured a continued membership .

 

Dave C

[beach pig]

The bookies are still predicting Remain vote to win.

The icm poll has leave seven points in front.GOOD out out out

[newjez]

The icm poll has leave seven points in front.GOOD out out out

 

It does seem to be hitting commodity stocks hard, so I guess it's good all those in oz voting for leave will be able to share the pain.

[Parley]

It does seem to be hitting commodity stocks hard, so I guess it's good all those in oz voting for leave will be able to share the pain.

 

what pain ?

 

This is one of the greatest buying opportunities on the sharemarket for years.

When the referendum is over and Remain is confirmed the market will shoot up quickly.

 

Fill up now as I have done.

[Gbye grey sky]

With everything that's going on in the e.u now

 

Migration issues

A massive banking black hole

40 -60% youth unemployment in some countries

Huge sums of money unaccounted for

Knowing that the u.k would be paying £265 million NET per month to be in .

 

Knowing all this in 2016 ,what if we were having the vote to join the e.u ...would you vote to join or not ?

 

No I wouldn't.

 

But the question is predicated on the assumption that the UK would be as it is now. EU membership has affected and influenced the UK in so many ways over the decades that is very unlikely.

[newjez]

what pain ?

 

This is one of the greatest buying opportunities on the sharemarket for years.

When the referendum is over and Remain is confirmed the market will shoot up quickly.

 

Fill up now as I have done.

 

Most likely.

[miw54]

I think Remain will win (or should I say, the scaremongerers will win). Unfortunately the intelligent and very credible reasons for leaving have been overshadowed by the Remain campaign focussing on immigration as the sole issue that leavers are campaigning about. Complete rubbish but when people associate the leave campaign with 'Nigel Farage's vision' (the worst person to have on the leave side) and linking leave voters to far right thinking, racism and xenophobia then, understandably, many good people will want to disassociate themselves from this. Remainers do a lot of dire warnings about leaving but clearly have not considered the equally dire consequences of remaining in the EU if it does not undertake major reforms. The idea that the UK will lead any reforms is laughable. We clearly have had no influence thus far and Mr Juncker has made his view of the U.K. abundantly clear. There is no respect for this country there and I am sure he can't wait to make an example of us.

I have to admit that I have swung my decision several times but stopped listening to the hype of both campaigns and now know how I will vote having discussed all the wider issues with my family, friends and colleagues......oh yes, and we are well educated and don't fall into the lower socio-economic groups as many Remainers would have people believe of those who wish to vote leave.

Whatever the outcome, there is going to be close to half the population of the U.K. feeling disappointed, so let's hope whoever loses can accept the very slight majority vote and in true Brit style pull together once again. I will be sooooo glad when the referendum is over and people can just move on.

[Gbye grey sky]

I think Remain will win (or should I say, the scaremongerers will win). Unfortunately the intelligent and very credible reasons for leaving have been overshadowed by the Remain campaign focussing on immigration as the sole issue that leavers are campaigning about. Complete rubbish but when people associate the leave campaign with 'Nigel Farage's vision' (the worst person to have on the leave side) and linking leave voters to far right thinking, racism and xenophobia then, understandably, many good people will want to disassociate themselves from this. Remainers do a lot of dire warnings about leaving but clearly have not considered the equally dire consequences of remaining in the EU if it does not undertake major reforms. The idea that the UK will lead any reforms is laughable. We clearly have had no influence thus far and Mr Juncker has made his view of the U.K. abundantly clear. There is no respect for this country there and I am sure he can't wait to make an example of us.

I have to admit that I have swung my decision several times but stopped listening to the hype of both campaigns and now know how I will vote having discussed all the wider issues with my family, friends and colleagues......oh yes, and we are well educated and don't fall into the lower socio-economic groups as many Remainers would have people believe of those who wish to vote leave.

Whatever the outcome, there is going to be close to half the population of the U.K. feeling disappointed, so let's hope whoever loses can accept the very slight majority vote and in true Brit style pull together once again. I will be sooooo glad when the referendum is over and people can just move on.

 

So dire consequences if Leave or Remain. I guess you just have to consider then which is the least dire consequence.

 

You may have changed your mind a few times as you claim but you would not know that from your posts which have been universally and vehemently for Leave.

[miw54]

No -truly, I have changed my mind several times - even this week, but admit I only comment on here when I see the leave voters being harangued. I started off as a Remain, but as time has gone on I have leaned more to leave with a few wobbles along the way. Whichever way the vote goes, there are great risks and it is about deciding which are the least dire. No-one really knows what will happen either way but I have great fears of the way the EU is going financially and politically and it is the issues around these factors that affect my decision.

[Gbye grey sky]

No -truly, I have changed my mind several times - even this week, but admit I only comment on here when I see the leave voters being harangued. I started off as a Remain, but as time has gone on I have leaned more to leave with a few wobbles along the way. Whichever way the vote goes, there are great risks and it is about deciding which are the least dire. No-one really knows what will happen either way but I have great fears of the way the EU is going financially and politically and it is the issues around these factors that affect my decision.

 

I would suggest that a Leave vote has much greater unpredictable consequences than a Remain vote.

 

If you only feel minded to stand up for the Leave camp then it would indicate you have always leaned towards Leave. Nothing wrong with that but don't then imagine that by feigning even-handedness it lends your conclusions greater credibility.

 

I can honestly say that I started out as favouring Remain mainly for reasons relating to the exchange rate. However I transferred my GBP out of concern for the possibility of a Leave vote so that issue is no longer pertinent. I remained interested and researched because I still have a UK private pension and I feared for that in the short, medium and long term of that should England vote to go it alone. I also have friends and family in England who will suffer the consequences if the people make a bad call on Thursday.

 

The more research I have done (I have steered clear of the politicians and listened to what experts in various fields have to say) the more convinced I have become that Remaining is the least risky option than Leaving by a country mile.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Gbye grey sky

[Wooba]

I would suggest that a Leave vote has much greater unpredictable consequences than a Remain vote.

 

I would suggest the opposite is true. If you look at Norway and Switzerland you can get an idea of what life could be like outside the EU. Looks pretty good to me. It will take some time and struggle, but all good things take hard work.

 

On the other side is the EU which is far less predictable these days. It's been in a sort of death spiral for a while now. If the remain side wins then the following day isn't going to be a sing song around the camp fire, it's let's focus on the next crisis this colossal bureaucracy has created. Anti EU feelings are not confined to the UK and are rising across the continent. That's not going to change on June 24th and it's likely to get worse. The euro is still a noose around the necks of poorer countries and Greece has its next bailout very soon. How many years will the rest of the continent throw money at that problem?

 

Remaining in the EU is like a gambling addict saying "one more bet, I can win it all back". Sometimes you just need to know when to walk away and that time is now.

[the bottler]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]33725[/ATTACH]

[Gbye grey sky]

I would suggest the opposite is true. If you look at Norway and Switzerland you can get an idea of what life could be like outside the EU. Looks pretty good to me. It will take some time and struggle, but all good things take hard work.

 

On the other side is the EU which is far less predictable these days. It's been in a sort of death spiral for a while now. If the remain side wins then the following day isn't going to be a sing song around the camp fire, it's let's focus on the next crisis this colossal bureaucracy has created. Anti EU feelings are not confined to the UK and are rising across the continent. That's not going to change on June 24th and it's likely to get worse. The euro is still a noose around the necks of poorer countries and Greece has its next bailout very soon. How many years will the rest of the continent throw money at that problem?

 

Remaining in the EU is like a gambling addict saying "one more bet, I can win it all back". Sometimes you just need to know when to walk away and that time is now.

 

In order to trade with the EU Norway and Switzerland pay heavily into the EU. More per capita than the UK in the case of Norway and they have no say and zero influence on the rules.

 

They also must agree to and accept free movement of people from within the EU so Britain would never agree to this deal given that it is the main reason most are voting Leave in the first place.

 

Norway and Switzerland really are no blueprints for the UKs future relationship with the EU.

 

Voting for Leave is a vote for total isolation which is why major investors and major UK employers are so jittery at the prospects. Leaving is a leap into the dark.

 

Negotiating individual trade agreements is a painstaking and lengthy process often needing negotiations stretching into years or even decades. Britain would need an army of additional civil servants to start from scratch with the rest of the world who would all wait to see what agreements Britain would agree with the EU first. Given that Britain could not use existing models it is estimated that it would take 10 years (after the 2 year separation period) to put substantive trade agreements in place with the EU.

 

If you are the type who believes there is a pot of gold waiting for you at the end of a rainbow then vote Leave. If you are more skeptical and suspect as I do that leaving will be a massive setback for England that would take more than a generation to unravel then you should vote Remain

[Wooba]

I certainly don't think there's a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. I believe that those who work hard get rewarded. I also believe that those people should get to enjoy the benefits of that hard work.

 

As for Norway and Switzerland, they have agreements VOLUNTARILY with the EU. They (at least Norway, not sure about Switzerland) voluntarily give money to some EU nations directly.

If those countries want to make certain agreements that puts them in line with various EU laws and regulations, I don't have any issues with that. But they also have the luxury of rejecting those they don't like.

 

I don't see leaving the EU as a my way or the highway deal. We can keep some of the good things and reject some of the bad things. That's the beauty of it. I remember when I was a kid if you bought anything electric it didn't come with a plug. Was it not the EU that forced them to have plugs pre-installed on it? I think that's a good thing and I certainly would be against bringing back the old system. I dare say there are countless examples of things brought in by the EU that are good ideas. That doesn't make the whole package worth while though.

 

I reject your idea that it's a leap in the dark. Either choice is an unknown. But the EU has consistently shown that it's not in the best interest of the people of Britain. The rich perhaps, but not most people. I think it's a risk worth taking. The EU is a sinking ship. It's doomed no matter what IMO, so better to get off now.

[Gbye grey sky]

I certainly don't think there's a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. I believe that those who work hard get rewarded. I also believe that those people should get to enjoy the benefits of that hard work.

 

As for Norway and Switzerland, they have agreements VOLUNTARILY with the EU. They (at least Norway, not sure about Switzerland) voluntarily give money to some EU nations directly.

If those countries want to make certain agreements that puts them in line with various EU laws and regulations, I don't have any issues with that. But they also have the luxury of rejecting those they don't like.

 

I don't see leaving the EU as a my way or the highway deal. We can keep some of the good things and reject some of the bad things. That's the beauty of it. I remember when I was a kid if you bought anything electric it didn't come with a plug. Was it not the EU that forced them to have plugs pre-installed on it? I think that's a good thing and I certainly would be against bringing back the old system. I dare say there are countless examples of things brought in by the EU that are good ideas. That doesn't make the whole package worth while though.

 

I reject your idea that it's a leap in the dark. Either choice is an unknown. But the EU has consistently shown that it's not in the best interest of the people of Britain. The rich perhaps, but not most people. I think it's a risk worth taking. The EU is a sinking ship. It's doomed no matter what IMO, so better to get off now.

 

No. They really don't. Norway and Switzerland must jump through hoops to trade with the EU. The most important hoop (at least for Brexit supporters) is free movement which for the EU is non-negotiable.

 

The EU is not about to be dictated to by the English. People are being seriously misled by the Leave campaign that Europe will dance to London's tune just because the UK imports more from Europe than it exports. It really won't happen. But when you vote Leave and you get what you think you want for heavens sake stop blaming the EU for the resulting mess. It was not as though we weren't warned by pretty much every body of consequence on the planet.

[Wooba]

People are being seriously misled by the Leave campaign that Europe will dance to London's tune just because the UK imports more from Europe than it exports.

 

How do you know this? Sure they are not going to be happy (the EU elites).. but I don't think they will want to sabotage their own economies to stick it to the UK. If they are that stupid, then they are definitely not someone we want to be working with. If the movement of people was non-negotiable as you say, then that would mean that the EU trades with absolutely nobody but Norway, Switzerland, Iceland and other EU members. We both know that that is not the case.

 

Besides, the EU will be more concerned by the flood of other countries who want to leave too. The continent is full of people who hate the EU.

 

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I've wanted out of the EU since day one. I hope that the people of Briton have the courage to free themselves from this oppressive regime they have aligned themselves with. As somebody said in one of these threads, most of the people on this forum have already passed the deadline to vote. Let's just see what happens on Thursday.. no matter the outcome, millions of people are going to be upset by the result..