Should I Stay or Go?

[MelanieJS]

Hi all,

 

I am an avid reader of this site but have never posted before. However, I'm in a dilemma and need some proper advice!

 

I lived in Brisbane for a few months and didn't settle. Nor did my partner who is Australian but has lived for many years in London/Surrey. I think both of us were in shock and never really gave it a good go. We were out of our comfort zone and just wanted our old lives back (even though we left UK for a better outdoors lifestyle).

 

We both were shocked at how quiet it was (probably because there are less people compared to overpopulated London/Surrey.

 

We do have a good group of friends in Brisbane and two of my oldest friends have just moved and we probably a better social life than here in UK.

Over a few months I grew to like Brisbane and enjoy the laid back way of life although I hadn't worked there. My partner however still wanted to return to UK.

Another point is that my mother isn't very well and her health isn't going to get better, only worse. It looks like she won't be around for many years.

 

We are currently in the UK, my partner is work and I have a job interview tomorrow.

 

However, we are both unsure on whether we should stay here or go back! Since being back, my partner can see aspects of UK life in a different light and can see the benefits of Aussie life, however she can't make a decision one way or the other. She wants to stay here and she wants to go back.

 

I obviously have the pull of my family here but also this is my home and what I'm used to.......meaning back in my comfort zone.

However, starting a new job feels me with dread (both here and in Oz) and although I'm good at what I do, I struggle with nerves.

 

We both eventually want to return to Oz though and don't want to retire in the UK.

 

We aren't sure if we should stay for a year or two or go back after 10 years when I'm 50 and my partner is 56.

Obviously going back and forth isn't great on finances and I just want my life back and get a house and fill it with my furniture which is still in storage.

 

I'm worried about whether I would get a job at 50 in Brisbane.

 

Also, is it better to complete my 30 years stamp here or go to Aus and have at least 25 years superannuation?

 

I'm worried about if we go into a recession here and also if Oz goes into a recession.

 

Or do we just make the move (again) and stick with it?

 

I'm not sleeping and feel stressed all the time and we just keep having the same 'discussion/conversation' but not getting any resolution. My brain is frazzled and now I'm rambling.

 

If anyone can offer advice, that would be great.

[Bungo]

You have an acute case of "curse of the expat". Once you have lived in two places, you can spend your days constantly comparing one to the other and wondering what if. I am the same. It is hard for those of us that were happy in both locations, it is somehow easier for those that hated life in once location, if they can move to where they want to be that is. Obviously some get trapped but that is another thread.

 

We are similar ages to yourselves, a touch older but not much, currently 46 and 42. We returned to UK last year having rationalised our reasons for doing so. We are about to take a holiday to Australia and a few weeks ago I announced we should be looking for jobs in Australia in order to move back. Curse of the expat strikes again.

 

I cannot recommend any course of action for you because it it personal choice, but we have decided that we should see out our working lives here in the UK. But work towards acquiring a second home in Australia over the next ten years. Another move at this stage is once more silly money on moving two adults, a dog and two cats, for a life where we will only once again be pondering whether we would have been better off in UK and comparing two lives that are by and large equivalent. We are going to force ourselves to stop thinking about the options and concentrate on making the choice we have made work.

 

You actually sound less Australia inclined than I am, I am tempted to say stay put and think about Aus for retirement.

[MelanieJS]

You have an acute case of "curse of the expat". Once you have lived in two places, you can spend your days constantly comparing one to the other and wondering what if. I am the same. It is hard for those of us that were happy in both locations, it is somehow easier for those that hated life in once location, if they can move to where they want to be that is. Obviously some get trapped but that is another thread.

 

We are similar ages to yourselves, a touch older but not much, currently 46 and 42. We returned to UK last year having rationalised our reasons for doing so. We are about to take a holiday to Australia and a few weeks ago I announced we should be looking for jobs in Australia in order to move back. Curse of the expat strikes again.

 

I cannot recommend any course of action for you because it it personal choice, but we have decided that we should see out our working lives here in the UK. But work towards acquiring a second home in Australia over the next ten years. Another move at this stage is once more silly money on moving two adults, a dog and two cats, for a life where we will only once again be pondering whether we would have been better off in UK and comparing two lives that are by and large equivalent. We are going to force ourselves to stop thinking about the options and concentrate on making the choice we have made work.

 

You actually sound less Australia inclined than I am, I am tempted to say stay put and think about Aus for retirement.

 

Thanks Bungo! It is bloody hard and I envy all those people who hate either UK or Oz and can happily settle in their chosen country.

Thankfully we don't have children as that is more expense plus having to think of education.

 

In some ways it would be easier to stay in the UK, buy another house and be mortgage free in 10 years and then think about going back to Oz. Then I think about the 10 years of lifestyle I'm cheating myself out of in Oz lol.

 

I was on an RRV so hopefully I will be able to get another one in 10 years time. I would still have personal ties as my partner is an Australian citizen and we will have been together for 26 years by then. Again, I'm worried in case I wouldn't be able to get another one and should I go now - it never ends.

[Bungo]

Thanks Bungo! It is bloody hard and I envy all those people who hate either UK or Oz and can happily settle in their chosen country.

Thankfully we don't have children as that is more expense plus having to think of education.

 

In some ways it would be easier to stay in the UK, buy another house and be mortgage free in 10 years and then think about going back to Oz. Then I think about the 10 years of lifestyle I'm cheating myself out of in Oz lol.

 

I was on an RRV so hopefully I will be able to get another one in 10 years time. I would still have personal ties as my partner is an Australian citizen and we will have been together for 26 years by then. Again, I'm worried in case I wouldn't be able to get another one and should I go now - it never ends.

 

I think having citizenship puts a differnet slant on things. We both have it, so we know that option is there for the future, for you maybe less certain and that is unsettling.

 

I don't tend to think about a lifestyle I am giving up. In Sydney I was within walking distance to the beach and I loved that I was. But it didn't mean that I did walk to the beach all that often and I certainly did not have a beach lifestyle. I took a job in the city, same as I did in the UK and my lifestyle was very much a corproate city working lifestyle. Totally under my control, nothing to do with Australia.

[Quoll]

Ah the old curse of the Expat!

 

You're not missing out on a lifestyle, just be sure you live every day as if it is your last without looking over your shoulder at what went before and you will have a good life no matter where you are. If you can hang on until your mum has popped her clogs then you will probably feel much less guilty than if you pottered off now leaving her to pop of on her own.

 

You should always be able to get a partner visa if all else fails and there is a certain frisson to new adventures. You know what they say - life is what happens when you are busy making other plans! Make the most of UK then when you are unencumbered move on to a new adventure - don't worry about the furniture - by the time you get around to it you'll probably realise you no longer want it anyway.

[Gbye grey sky]

We moved from Surrey to Brisbane last year. I was 54 at the time of the move (wife 52). A Key difference was our 11 year old daughter and, I have to confess, if not for her we would probably have delayed the move 5 years so we could set ourselves up for a comfortable retirement financially.

 

Aside from the climate here (which we personally much prefer) one of the main attractions was the more easy laid-back lifestyle in Queensland compared with the hustle and bustle of London/Surrey.

 

I love it here and think it is perfect for retirement but not so sure it would have suited me so well if I had been 10-15 years younger and your comments kind of bear out my suspicions on that. There is a danger that future rule changes may make it much harder to migrate as a spouse/partner but I tend not to worry overly about things that are outside my control.

 

If I were you, and given all that you have said, I would stay put, enjoy my time in the UK now but make sure that I make plenty of providion financially for a comfortable retirement wherever that may be. You are putting too much needless pressure on making potentially lifetime decisions now when you are not ready and it is not appropriate.

[VERYSTORMY]

I think you need to really be objective about what you didn't like last time - as it will still be there.

 

In my experience, people don't suddenly become outdoor people by changing country. You are or you aren't. I am an outdoor person and actually spend more outdoor time now than I did in Australia.

[Chortlepuss]

I'm a bit older than you - currently in UK for a year's break - kids still in Brisbane where TBH they're better off due to personal circumstances (nurse, student), hubby prefers Australia, I prefer UK and like you have an elderly mum here. It's not easy is it?? I want to retire to UK but can't overanalyse it too much - take each day as it comes seems to be sensible. I'm working on trying to have a base in both camps (I hated renting in Australia). There is so much to do here (we live near Brighton) and for us so many people to experience it with here (family and friends) compared to Brisbane. But OH's job much better in Australia so we'll probably be spending the rest of our working lives there....what would you do if you won the lotto and money was no object??

[akiralx]

I'm worried about whether I would get a job at 50 in Brisbane.

 

 

I stopped reading here. You would struggle - I'm also 50 (in Melbourne) and want to hang on to my current job as long as possible as I doubt I'd get another decent one

[MelanieJS]

Thanks for all your responses.

 

Outdoors living - I used to run in the UK but I hated running in the cold and rain. I didn't have the 'get up and go' to do it most of the year. In the summer, (on the odd warm days) I was fine. I know that running in Brisbane in the summer will probably not happen as I'll be too hot lol but the rest of the year will be more suitable to me.

 

RRV Visa - Is it likely that they will be making it harder for people to return on an RRV/Spouse Visa?

This is my issue too - we definitely want to be in Oz in 10 years time. The dilemma is whether we go back now so I can get my citizenship and stick at it or stay here for the time-being. 'Gbye Grey Sky' has me worried that I won't be able to get a visa in future.

 

Job - This is worrying to think that I will struggle to get a job at 50! I'm not bothered about staying in my current job area - my skills are transferrable but now I'm worried about getting a job.

 

I found we have a bigger friend basis in Brisbane, plus two of my oldest friends have just moved there too. Whereas here, we don't meet up with our friends that often due to location and them being busy with their children etc.

 

There are good and bad points about both places - it is trying to work out what we want now.

 

Thanks for all your helpful posts x

[VERYSTORMY]

One of the major issues would be getting an RRV. To be honest if the travel part of the visa has already expired then, even if you applied now, there is no guarantee as you technically don't meet the criteria. However, they are normally fairly lenient with RRV's and I would expect you to be granted one. But, I think it may be unlikely in 10 years time - the technical criteria would mean you showing significant ties to Australia and a compelling reason for not living there.

 

The other thing I would urge is some good financial planning via a professional. For example, you mention getting your UK pension. But, are you aware that the UK pension is frozen the moment you start drawing it while abroad. At the same time, you are not going to have time to pay a lot into a Australian Super account.

[MelanieJS]

One of the major issues would be getting an RRV. To be honest if the travel part of the visa has already expired then, even if you applied now, there is no guarantee as you technically don't meet the criteria. However, they are normally fairly lenient with RRV's and I would expect you to be granted one. But, I think it may be unlikely in 10 years time - the technical criteria would mean you showing significant ties to Australia and a compelling reason for not living there.

 

The other thing I would urge is some good financial planning via a professional. For example, you mention getting your UK pension. But, are you aware that the UK pension is frozen the moment you start drawing it while abroad. At the same time, you are not going to have time to pay a lot into a Australian Super account.

 

Wouldn't one of my significant ties be that my partner is Australian and if they move to Oz, I would go too?

 

This is one of my issues re pension. I'm trying to weigh up whether it is better to move over to Oz now so I have 20 odd years to put into a superannuation.

[Gbye grey sky]

Thanks for all your responses.

 

Outdoors living - I used to run in the UK but I hated running in the cold and rain. I didn't have the 'get up and go' to do it most of the year. In the summer, (on the odd warm days) I was fine. I know that running in Brisbane in the summer will probably not happen as I'll be too hot lol but the rest of the year will be more suitable to me.

 

RRV Visa - Is it likely that they will be making it harder for people to return on an RRV/Spouse Visa?

This is my issue too - we definitely want to be in Oz in 10 years time. The dilemma is whether we go back now so I can get my citizenship and stick at it or stay here for the time-being. 'Gbye Grey Sky' has me worried that I won't be able to get a visa in future.

 

Job - This is worrying to think that I will struggle to get a job at 50! I'm not bothered about staying in my current job area - my skills are transferrable but now I'm worried about getting a job.

 

I found we have a bigger friend basis in Brisbane, plus two of my oldest friends have just moved there too. Whereas here, we don't meet up with our friends that often due to location and them being busy with their children etc.

 

There are good and bad points about both places - it is trying to work out what we want now.

 

Thanks for all your helpful posts x

 

Wasn't my intention to worry you and fwiw I think it unlikely that in your situation a future visa would be a problem. Australia have taken the route of cranking up the cost of the actual visa rather than imposing financial restrictions (as the UK is doing).

 

Btw you can migrate and have 25 years Super AND pay your NI stamp (need 35 years for the full pension, not 30) if you wanted to.

 

There are quite a few ping-pongers on this site but reading your post I am not seeing anything that says you should really do this now. You say you see yourself in Brisbane 10 years from now but why not 15 or 20 years from now for instance. You seem to be just beating yourself up over a decision which really does not HAVE to be made now.

[MelanieJS]

Wasn't my intention to worry you and fwiw I think it unlikely that in your situation a future visa would be a problem. Australia have taken the route of cranking up the cost of the actual visa rather than imposing financial restrictions (as the UK is doing).

 

Btw you can migrate and have 25 years Super AND pay your NI stamp (need 35 years for the full pension, not 30) if you wanted to.

 

There are quite a few ping-pongers on this site but reading your post I am not seeing anything that says you should really do this now. You say you see yourself in Brisbane 10 years from now but why not 15 or 20 years from now for instance. You seem to be just beating yourself up over a decision which really does not HAVE to be made now.

 

'Bye Grey Sky' - you have actually really helped me with your responses. I think that I am just over-panicking.

I think my partner would prefer to be here for another 8-10 years and then want to go back. I just don't want to stay here and by doing that scuppering my chances of moving back to Oz.

[VERYSTORMY]

Wouldn't one of my significant ties be that my partner is Australian and if they move to Oz, I would go too?

 

This is one of my issues re pension. I'm trying to weigh up whether it is better to move over to Oz now so I have 20 odd years to put into a superannuation.

 

Sorry, yes, that would do it and worst case would just be another partner visa.

 

With the pension, I really would seek professional advice as it will depend on how much you earn and can afford to pump into the pension plan. Even 20 odd years should not be a given that you would be ok. There is regular talk that even people in their 20's need to be putting more in.

[dmjg]

Worry about today, plan for tomorrow.

 

There seems to be two issues.

 

1-Funding retirement. Noone here can help, talk to a professional, or two. Probably one who knows the market in both the uk and australia.

 

2-The ability to return. Two things about governments are: they change regularly and they change rules as they flap in the wind trying to get reelected. And immigration is always a political agenda item. The only way to fully ensure you can come back to retire in ten years is to have dual citizenship. That removes one worry.

 

How far off qualifying are you? Have you had four years in australia legally, with the last one on PR? You might be within a year or so of being able to apply. If so, i would be looking to do that, then return to the uk for the next ten, then its easy to retire anywhere that takes your fancy.

[dmjg]

Sorry, just re read your first post, malteser.

 

A few months in brissie.

 

The decision becomes harder.

 

Have you got a coin?

[MelanieJS]

Sorry, just re read your first post, malteser.

 

A few months in brissie.

 

The decision becomes harder.

 

Have you got a coin?

 

Unfortunately no coin and if I did, it probably wouldn't help - I would probably second guess that too lol.

[dmjg]

Unfortunately no coin and if I did, it probably wouldn't help - I would probably second guess that too lol.

 

Best out of three,

 

5,

 

7,

 

:laugh:

[Ferrets]

As a thought I would not be basing the decision on whether you were paying into the UK state pension for a certain period - the rules have already moved quickly on this in the last few years and I can only see that moving quicker over the next 10 or so. It may be worth taking advice to ensure that you are making appropriate personal provision in whichever jurisdiction you choose to live.

 

I've come very quickly to the view that migration decisions should not be made with any assumptions of dependency on the UK state pension.

 

Perhaps a more important question is about your visa situations; you may find that it's worth ensuring your partner can get UK citizenship before going back, then you can do the same in return which means you can always be free to ping pom back and forth as you wish in retirement ;-)