Tickled Pink Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 I had to smile when I read "Please don"t take the advice and pointing out of pitfalls negative, fore warned is fore armed." Why did I smile? I have read all the posts and there is not one positive amongst them. No mention of the fact that theymight just have a decent life here. Another thing that bothers me is people are constantly told they will struggle if they don't have a large salary. Not everyone in Sydney has a "large" salary yet they seem to get on fine - mostly because they have learned to shop smart. I'm not saying things will be easy - emigrating never is and it is harder now than when I came with my family 50 years ago. However, if your prepared for the fact that it will probably be tough for the first few years you can still build a good life for your family. Bottom line is that no one will have a decent life if there is not the basic salary to support it. Not everyone has a large salary, but not everyone has 6 people to support. The OP has not said what the salary will be, but there is no skirting around the fact that to support 6 people, 4 of which require school fees to be paid, already looking at rock bottom price for rental and in one of the most pricy areas of Australia its not going to be easy at all if the income isn't there. The 457 is a risky visa for such a large family, with very little security and no entitlement for financial help - very different from being on a PR visa. Its not about being positive or negative, but realistic. The OP doesn't say where in Scotland they are coming from, but cost of living could be a huge shock too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amibovered Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 I had to smile when I read "Please don"t take the advice and pointing out of pitfalls negative, fore warned is fore armed." Why did I smile? I have read all the posts and there is not one positive amongst them. No mention of the fact that theymight just have a decent life here. Another thing that bothers me is people are constantly told they will struggle if they don't have a large salary. Not everyone in Sydney has a "large" salary yet they seem to get on fine - mostly because they have learned to shop smart. I'm not saying things will be easy - emigrating never is and it is harder now than when I came with my family 50 years ago. However, if your prepared for the fact that it will probably be tough for the first few years you can still build a good life for your family. You've missed the point I'm afraid, it's not about moving to Australia, it's about the pitfalls of a 457. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonbclark Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 (edited) Well we must be lucky then, we moved on a 457 and live in the Hills district within the area of many good schools and currently rent a 4 bed house for around 600 a week. No pool or fancy garden but enough space to live in and in a nice area within reach of parks, schools, shops and commutable to parramatta as well. We paid school fees for 2 years albeit for only 2 kids then got pr and now have citizenship so it is possible. Yes you have to be aware of the negatives but also lets have some positives too! Sounds like the original poster has done her homework regarding school fees and catholic schools etc. my daughter goes to a local gymnastics club and yes it does cost just under 200 a term but that's for around ten weeks of lessons so around $20 a lesson or 10 pounds which I don't think is too bad. She doesn't compete so doesn't need team kit I buy it from Big W ? If you do a lot it can be expensive but there is also a lot that is cheaper or free and certainly within the hills district you can do as many different activities as you can afford to there are so many things on offer. Edited April 18, 2016 by jonbclark Speling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Thanks Quoll. I am aware we do not qualify for any help when we come to OZ, but we do have savings which will allow us to pay the yearly school fees. In Scotland there is no opportunity for youngsters, (no apprenticeships) we are all hoping this move will become a permanent one. We work hard and want the best opportunity for our children. There are a load of issues you need to be aware of with this plan. The first is the visa. A 457 has no automatic path to permanent residence and you would have to come with the knowledge that you would likely be returning. While some do gain PR, many do not. The visa is tied to the employer. So, if he were to lose his job for any reason, he would only have 90 days to find another company willing and able to sponsor - note, not every company can. If he couldn't then you would all have to leave. Many partners of 457 holders find it hard to find work - because they are only in the country temporarily and have no say in how that long will be. As for opportunities for kids, Australia generally has the same youth unemployment as the UK. It has the same issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie 2 Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 You've missed the point I'm afraid, it's not about moving to Australia, it's about the pitfalls of a 457. No, I did not miss the point. Even a blind man could see that you were pointing out the pitfalls of the 457 visa, but surely someone could have said that if they decided to come on that visa that they would/could encounter more difficulties than they would on a pr visa but that it was still possible to have a good life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie 2 Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Bottom line is that no one will have a decent life if there is not the basic salary to support it. Not everyone has a large salary, but not everyone has 6 people to support. The OP has not said what the salary will be, but there is no skirting around the fact that to support 6 people, 4 of which require school fees to be paid, already looking at rock bottom price for rental and in one of the most pricy areas of Australia its not going to be easy at all if the income isn't there. The 457 is a risky visa for such a large family, with very little security and no entitlement for financial help - very different from being on a PR visa. Its not about being positive or negative, but realistic. The OP doesn't say where in Scotland they are coming from, but cost of living could be a huge shock too. You are assuming that they are stupid enough not to have negotiated a salary that will support the lifestyle of the family. I give people more credit than that. I would also expect that as they are Scots they would be able to manage their money pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tickled Pink Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 (edited) You are assuming that they are stupid enough not to have negotiated a salary that will support the lifestyle of the family. I give people more credit than that. I would also expect that as they are Scots they would be able to manage their money pretty well. Not making any assumptions at all - but many people do not realise the real cost of living here, and as seen time and again on here, people often don't realise they will have to pay for certain things (like school fees - which incidentally the OP does make a comment that these are going to hit them pretty hard) and not be entitled to other things (like child care rebate). Time and again it is evidenced in here that people don't really understand the 457 visa, that there isn't an automatic pathway to PR etc. The OP does indicate in their post their anticipated budget for the rental because they don't want to overstretch themselves - this is some indication of where they may be at with starting salary. You are also making assumptions about Scottish people... Edited April 19, 2016 by Tickled Pink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzukiscottie Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 I would also expect that as they are Scots they would be able to manage their money pretty well. Any chance that you could have a word with my kids? Please remind them of their genetic ability to manage their own funds and stop relying on the Bank of Dad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzukiscottie Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 (edited) As a former 457 temporary resident, and with some hindsight, the one big thing for us over the course of being "temporary" wasn't the money (I'm Scottish; go figure!), or the lifestyle, or the weather, or health matters, or the kids schooling, or maintaining a house in Scotland from afar, or dealing with rentals, dealing with landlords, dealing with changes in government policy about LAFHA, dealing with taxation in two countries, dealing with family matters across the globe, .......... I could go on with this list but I'm sure you get the picture......... Above all of that "normal" everyday stuff is the one thing that you have no influence over, and that is the worry that the "temporary" nature of the stay in Australia might one day be brought to an end. At first, we thought "well if it's an adventure for a few years, then that'll do", but then you start putting down roots. And you become attached. And you have responsibilities. And friendships. And a belonging. And then you have to start working on strategies to get PR. Which takes time. And more paperwork. And a lot more hoops to jump through. And more money. And a few more lost nights sleep. Singles or couples on a 457? No problem. Jump right in. Families on a 457? Do very careful, extensive research. Mindful of a plan for the future. Be very aware of timescales for the kids schooling. Have a "get-out" plan if it all comes tumbling down within 90 days. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited April 19, 2016 by Suzukiscottie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie 2 Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Any chance that you could have a word with my kids? Please remind them of their genetic ability to manage their own funds and stop relying on the Bank of Dad. Sorry to disappoint you but 3 of my 4 sons were the same and 2 of them are Scots born! Never mind you will have the pleasure of watching your grandchildren do the same to them. The only problem is if you're like me you'll spoil the grandchildren rotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amibovered Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 No, I did not miss the point. Even a blind man could see that you were pointing out the pitfalls of the 457 visa, but surely someone could have said that if they decided to come on that visa that they would/could encounter more difficulties than they would on a pr visa but that it was still possible to have a good life. Yes, this family, or any family in their circumstances could have a wonderful life in Australia, become settled and established, and then find themselves forced to leave and return to the UK many thousands of pounds worse off and having jeopardised the kids chances of a university education, unfortunately some people are prepared to gamble anything to get to Australia, and that's what moving on a 457 is, a gamble, optimism is great, blind optimum not so great, I wish this family all the very best and I hope it works out well for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie 2 Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 The OP does indicate in their post their anticipated budget for the rental because they don't want to overstretch themselves - this is some indication of where they may be at with starting salary. You are also making assumptions about Scottish people... I think not wanting to over stretch themselves shows some common sense. No I am not making assumption about Scots people. Money has always been a commodity that had to be used with care in most Scots households. I know this because I am one. It is only in recent years that there has been government help for families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tickled Pink Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 (edited) 'I would also expect that as they are Scots they would be able to manage their money pretty well'. You're making the assumption (as quoted above). I can certainly attest that not all Scots are as you purport to be... half my family are Scottish and there are some shocking uses of money on that side of the family! Edited April 19, 2016 by Tickled Pink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 I think not wanting to over stretch themselves shows some common sense. No I am not making assumption about Scots people. Money has always been a commodity that had to be used with care in most Scots households. I know this because I am one. It is only in recent years that there has been government help for families. What a load of crap! Being Scottish does not make you any different in the way you handle money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 I think not wanting to over stretch themselves shows some common sense. No I am not making assumption about Scots people. Money has always been a commodity that had to be used with care in most Scots households. I know this because I am one. It is only in recent years that there has been government help for families. You are really not making yourself look very credible now, with these generalisations. We are all from a household, be it Scottish, English, Liverpudlian, Londoner or anything else. It doesn't mean what was true for our family applied to everyone else. Come on. And as for government help being available for families only in recent years, well I am in my 40s and help has been available for families for as long as I can remember. A quick Google brings up the Families Act of 1945, perhpas this is recent in your book but most would think that quite a long time ago now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orca Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 In terms of a 457 visa being temporary - can you apply for a 189 pr visa as soon as possible once you get there - at your own cost to make things more permenant? Perhaps that could help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 In terms of a 457 visa being temporary - can you apply for a 189 pr visa as soon as possible once you get there - at your own cost to make things more permenant? Perhaps that could help? They may be able to and I think most of us would encourage them to. But they may not be able to. It depends on if they are eligible. Many people on 457 are not eligible for independent skilled migration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie 2 Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 You are really not making yourself look very credible now, with these generalisations. We are all from a household, be it Scottish, English, Liverpudlian, Londoner or anything else. It doesn't mean what was true for our family applied to everyone else. Come on.Did you even read the post that my reply was in answer to? I was accused of assuming what Scottish people would do. A quick Google brings up the Families Act of 1945, perhpas this is recent in your book but most would think that quite a long time ago now. I am talking about the government monetary help for families in Australia not the UK, so why reference a UK Act? I am so sorry that the tongue in cheek reference to money went over your head. Let me explain.Mostly the English love to label the Scots as being mean with their money, so I pointed out that if money was tight a Scot would be able to cope. I hope that calms your indignation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie 2 Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 What a load of crap! Being Scottish does not make you any different in the way you handle money! Oh dear me. We do have a lot of touchy people on this thread. Where did I say it was only Scots who could handle their money? I did assume that adults were posting on this thread but I am not so sure now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amibovered Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Interesting article from a couple of years ago Almost 40 per cent of 457 visa holders have gone on to become permanent residents http://insidestory.org.au/temporary-migration-is-a-permanent-thing/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amibovered Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Some of the 60 per cent may have not wanted PR, but still, it's a big gamble if you are counting on staying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Oh dear me. We do have a lot of touchy people on this thread. Where did I say it was only Scots who could handle their money? I did assume that adults were posting on this thread but I am not so sure now. Nobody said you did say that. However you certainly purported that *all Scots could handle money*. Do you see the difference? Anyway I don't want to continue this because it isn't fair on the OP. Just about everyone else can see what a load of rubbish you are talking. Why don't you take it elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicolaScotland Posted April 26, 2016 Author Share Posted April 26, 2016 Orca, thanks i will look into this visa further :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicolaScotland Posted April 26, 2016 Author Share Posted April 26, 2016 We are moving over from Edinburgh, and have agreed a substantial salary well above national average plus bonus and commission so we will survive well. My husband will also be working when he finds work. I dont understand why so many people comment and be negative? I thought this site was for giving advice, i'm an adult and would not make a move with my family to the other side of the world if we were going to be worse off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicolaScotland Posted April 26, 2016 Author Share Posted April 26, 2016 Thanks! Nice to hear from someone who has been in my position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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