bunbury61 Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 We had a friend of ours who owns a small business in Torquay ,u.k ,call us the other day . I had gone to make a transaction on his business card ,and the transaction was declined. When he went into the bank ,he was informed someone had taken £9,000 from his business account . First a 40p transaction to test the water ,then a series of £800 transactions buying shares on the London stock market . Not only that they had also started emptying his private account . For those that are unfamiliar ,you Aussies from the more rural areas . Its called RFID ,( don't know what it stands for ) People can now remotely scan your cards without even touching them or you . My mates cards had been scanned as he kept them in his top pocket . The bank will re imburse him ,but there is a lot of hassle invoved. The subject also came up on radio 5 live yesterday . A guy got nudged on a crowded commuter train . He was suspicious and contacted his bank . Lo and behold ,the tester and first £20 had just been withdrawn. The current solution is those metal cases and purses that stop any scanning signal. They are cheap here in the u.k ...i have just seen them for £4.99. If its not already rife in oz ,it soon will be . Sadly these things catch on . I suggest you seriously look at investing in a metal wallet . Especially if you live or spend time and money in the large urban areas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight7 Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Thanks bunbury- I have heard of this but don't know anyone who has been caught. Back to a cash economy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Tilley Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Great warning, thank you. RFID stands for Radio Frequency Identification and people can come up to you with the handheld scanners with a preset amount up to £30 in the hope that your contactless debit card will do the business! There was a photo on my facebook home page the other day that someone had allegedly taken on a packed tube train which showed a man holding a device like this in his hand discreetly. The insinuation was that he would be scanning people close up in the hope he would get lucky. Once they have successfully scanned you then they have your card and bank details. I can't believe that contactless cards exist! When cyber fraud is on the increase this is just ridiculous. Anyone who loses a wallet or purse and has a debit card that has contactless payments can be ripped off easily in an hour. I know the banks say they will refund unauthorised payments without fuss, but this is so open to abuse it's going to cost the banks millions of pounds per year. The police no longer investigate this type of fraud. Losers are advised (in the UK) to contact Action Fraud instead, and frauds of £30 or less are not going to be a priority to investigate at all. The other ridiculous thing is that you can't actually ask your bank to send you a debit card that doesn't have contactless payments and you can't ask them to turn it off either. So we are all open to this stupid way of paying whether we want to or not - which leaves us all open to be scammed! As the scammers get more sophisticated then more of us are likely to get scammed. I suppose one way to protect ourselves is to check our bank accounts on line on a daily basis (which I do) but there are many people who don't do online banking either and still rely on monthly statements. I for one don't like using contactless payments and was very wary of this when using the London Underground last summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunbury61 Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 Thanks bunbury- I have heard of this but don't know anyone who has been caught. Back to a cash economy? The powers that be have the ability to introduce a "cashless " society now ,and that is coming . Then they have total control ,over taxes ,debts etc. There will be no ,putting " a bit under the mattress". Back to the point at hand .....crowded places and even places like petrol stations and restaurants are a main target . I know quite a few who have been scammed in the past . " can I just take your card sir ,this machine isn't working "...next thing you know my mate was getting bills on his credit card for high end meals in Rome .....he was still in Birmingham . But this is a whole different ball game ....they scan your cards ,while they are IN your pocket . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunbury61 Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 Great warning, thank you. RFID stands for Radio Frequency Identification and people can come up to you with the handheld scanners with a preset amount up to £30 in the hope that your contactless debit card will do the business! There was a photo on my facebook home page the other day that someone had allegedly taken on a packed tube train which showed a man holding a device like this in his hand discreetly. The insinuation was that he would be scanning people close up in the hope he would get lucky. Once they have successfully scanned you then they have your card and bank details. I can't believe that contactless cards exist! When cyber fraud is on the increase this is just ridiculous. Anyone who loses a wallet or purse and has a debit card that has contactless payments can be ripped off easily in an hour. I know the banks say they will refund unauthorised payments without fuss, but this is so open to abuse it's going to cost the banks millions of pounds per year. The police no longer investigate this type of fraud. Losers are advised (in the UK) to contact Action Fraud instead, and frauds of £30 or less are not going to be a priority to investigate at all. The other ridiculous thing is that you can't actually ask your bank to send you a debit card that doesn't have contactless payments and you can't ask them to turn it off either. So we are all open to this stupid way of paying whether we want to or not - which leaves us all open to be scammed! As the scammers get more sophisticated then more of us are likely to get scammed. I suppose one way to protect ourselves is to check our bank accounts on line on a daily basis (which I do) but there are many people who don't do online banking either and still rely on monthly statements. I for one don't like using contactless payments and was very wary of this when using the London Underground last summer. But these transactions on the business card went something like ...40p ...£800...£800...£800. Etc etc ....they emptied his account ,of £9k in no time And no the bank didn't pick up on it and give him a call . He's a bit of a dinosaur ,like me ,and he couldn't believe someone could get hold of his details without touching his card . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 How does he know his cards were scanned with a device to get his details rather than another way ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Nothing new...............just progress of technology. I had my card nicked 22 yrs ago from a locker room and the thief had withdrawn 200 quid before I stopped the card. The "Black Horse" initially refused to re-imburse me saying that I must have had my pin in the wallet when they nicked the card, even though they had an ATM image of a motorcycle helmeted guy withdrawing...................the junkie that lived next door to me told me that a simple bar code scanner as used in a shop, when scanning my bank card, could reveal my details in the right hands so I put that to the bank..............shat it didn't they?...............the whole banking system would have collapsed back then if the public knew that more than a few junkies knew how to read a stolen card. They re-imbused me the moment I put that to them.................................. OK............time has moved on, but a precaution I have stuck with is to have as little as possible in a savings account and the bulk in a "online access only account"........I move it from there to the savings, only when I am skint when shopping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 How does he know his cards were scanned with a device to get his details rather than another way ? The banking system would collapse if the truth were known. I believe little has changed since :see my earlier post.............As supermarket scanners got more smart, so they were more enabled to read bank cards.............see those stock takers simply scanning bar codes on the shelf to see what needs re-stocking? The same technology, with the very same tool, can scan your card.................it just needs a "destination" for the info IYKWIM as opposed to Cole's stocktakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 The banking system would collapse if the truth were known. I believe little has changed since :see my earlier post.............As supermarket scanners got more smart, so they were more enabled to read bank cards.............see those stock takers simply scanning bar codes on the shelf to see what needs re-stocking? The same technology, with the very same tool, can scan your card.................it just needs a "destination" for the info IYKWIM as opposed to Cole's stocktakers. The scanners can't read the real CCV whereas full credit card details stolen from insecure website databases are sold around the internet. A scanner read only receives a one-time use only CCV so given his friend had multiple separate amounts transferred online into the london SX it just seems more likely to have been a normal attack from a number sold/generated on the internet. These happen all the time....I had one recently and they have this exact signature...a small initial transaction to check the number they have bought/generated and if it works they then go to town. It doesn't seem to match a scan fraud as there would be no need to go small first if you knew you had scanned the number off a real card, and you would only be able to do one transaction without the proper CCV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 The scanners can't read the CCV whereas full credit card details stolen from insecure website databases are sold around the internet. A scanner generates a one-time use only CCV so given his friend had multiple separate amounts transferred online into the london SX it just seems more likely to have been a normal attack from a number sold/generated on the internet. These happen all the time....I had one recently and they have this exact signature...a small initial transaction to check the number they have bought/generated and if it works they then go to town. It doesn't match a scan fraud as their would be no need to go small first if you knew you had scanned the number off a real card, and you would only be able to do one transaction without the proper CCV. Come again :-)................All I know is that back then my card was nicked and had been used within an hour of being nicked via my pin which could only have been accessed via the magnetic strip, and a middle level junkie told me that it was only to be expected..............like I say, security has moved on, and so has criminality with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritChickx Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 I had this exact problem too just monday. First 3 quid then 80 quid. I would have had more taken if 1) i had more in my account and 2) if i didnt get a text from my bank asking if i authorised those transactions. They were done online. Thankfully I got that text straight after and thr bank blocked my card and sent out a new one to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish.01 Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Come again :-)................All I know is that back then my card was nicked and had been used within an hour of being nicked via my pin which could only have been accessed via the magnetic strip, and a middle level junkie told me that it was only to be expected..............like I say, security has moved on, and so has criminality with it. Yeah, not talking about your case as security was different then, just about the modern example. Services like Apple Pay use NFC within a robust security platform to make many of these scan issues go away. They don't even store your number on your phone, let alone give it out to a scanner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritChickx Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 My new card has contactless too which I'm not happy about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patphillips47 Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 The habit of some credit card providers of putting card numbers and credit limits in their statements is also a potential problem for those customers who still get paper statements Mail boxes being away from the house which they often are in Oz mean post can be stolen easily unfortunately People throwing statements away instead of shredding is another huge no no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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