Harpodom Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Peter Dutton stands by decision to revoke visa of decorated Kiwi soldier Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/kiwi-mp-slams-decision-to-revoke-visa-of-decorated-soldier-20151110-gkvpdw.html#ixzz3rFqfmkFU The guy was arrested for being a member of a bikie gang FFS! What next, having tatoos? Entertaining 'leftist thoughts'? George Orwell was bang on the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Isn't a bikie gang an illegal organisation ? And if so, doesn't that mean he has failed the character test ? Yes and yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 Isn't a bikie gang an illegal organisation ?And if so, doesn't that mean he has failed the character test ? Yes and yes. baaaa, I'm sure you'd pass the 'character test' with flying colours mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amibovered Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Transportation, it's an Australian tradition, convicts were transported to Australia in the past though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicF Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Isn't a bikie gang an illegal organisation ?And if so, doesn't that mean he has failed the character test ? Yes and yes. He was arrested but not convicted. I find the whole kicking people out with criminal convictions dubious enough without starting on people they think might be criminals. At least wait until they have been tried and found guilty of breaking the law ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Bikies are bad news. Send them home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diane Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 And yet a government minister found guilty of accessing child porn has been on full pay (totaling over $700,000) for the four years it took a judge to preside over his case.. and even now there is debate about whether he should have had to resign or not as technically he has not been 'convicted' until all avenues (appeals etc) have been exhausted. (He finally resigned today after a lot of pressure apparently) http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-12/mlc-bernard-finnigan-quits-politics-after-being-found-guilty/6936292 I know who I would put in a high security concentration camp, and it wouldn't be some poor Kiwi.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Isn't a bikie gang an illegal organisation ?And if so, doesn't that mean he has failed the character test ? Yes and yes. Gosh putting it like that yes, yes> Yes I do hold grave fears for the democratic process and treatment of people both in and in care of Australian governments. Previous and present. And Australia wants a seat in the UN Human Rights organisation? Talk about split/defective personalities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Gosh putting it like that yes, yes> Yes I do hold grave fears for the democratic process and treatment of people both in and in care of Australian governments. Previous and present. And Australia wants a seat in the UN Human Rights organisation? Talk about split/defective personalities. Abuses of Human Rights are not a hindrance to a seat at the UNs Human Rights Council. The US had Guantanamo Bay and the UK had internment in Northern Ireland, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Abuses of Human Rights are not a hindrance to a seat at the UNs Human Rights Council. The US had Guantanamo Bay and the UK had internment in Northern Ireland, for example. That is very true. Although did they have close to all main players criticising such behaviour? How ever would Australia manage to get elected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie2012 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 signs of a police state? You always wonder why does the police carry guns here (like US where they really need it) if same gun laws (no guns for you everyday Joe) as UK, where regular police men only carry batons..sorry off topic a bit, but it just came to mind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Because the crime all have guns. Melbourne is awash with guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 signs of a police state? You always wonder why does the police carry guns here (like US where they really need it) if same gun laws (no guns for you everyday Joe) as UK, where regular police men only carry batons..sorry off topic a bit, but it just came to mind... A very important observation none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diane Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Good article here if you havent read it already: http://theaimn.com/the-top-5-signs-that-your-countrys-refugee-policy-is-a-disaster/ I particularly like: [h=4]Number One: A country in the Axis-of-Evil thinks you’ve gone too far[/h]Over 110 countries lined up at the UN this week to comment on Australia’s refugee policies. In fact, so many countries wanted to raise issues at the periodic UN review, that each was given a time limit of just over a minute to speak. Between them they still managed to raise over 300 concerns in just that space of time. Among their number was long-term member of Bush’s ‘Axis-of-evil’ – North Korea – who said that they: “ have serious concerns at the continued reports of … violence against refugees and asylum seekers“. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speakeasy Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 signs of a police state? You always wonder why does the police carry guns here (like US where they really need it) if same gun laws (no guns for you everyday Joe) as UK, where regular police men only carry batons..sorry off topic a bit, but it just came to mind... I think we're past the point where batons are very useful. Same with those silly hats. I was breathalysed yesterday and asked for my license. I found the whole encounter reassuring and non-threatening. In a police state I would have been asked all sorts of irrelevant questions and threatened. The difference is the world has changed and the more crime you tolerate - the more there will be. It is the citizen's duty to know the laws and their obligations under them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speakeasy Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Good article here if you havent read it already: http://theaimn.com/the-top-5-signs-that-your-countrys-refugee-policy-is-a-disaster/ I particularly like: Number One: A country in the Axis-of-Evil thinks you’ve gone too far Over 110 countries lined up at the UN this week to comment on Australia’s refugee policies. In fact, so many countries wanted to raise issues at the periodic UN review, that each was given a time limit of just over a minute to speak. Between them they still managed to raise over 300 concerns in just that space of time. Among their number was long-term member of Bush’s ‘Axis-of-evil’ – North Korea – who said that they: “ have serious concerns at the continued reports of … violence against refugees and asylum seekers“. Is that right? We have to listen to what N Korea have to say? Try seeking asylum there. I don't think anyone's passed the border in either direction for years. Trick is, that kind of regime covers it all up. What journalists? I wonder what sort of "treatment" asylum seekers are getting in any other refugee camp and how it differs so vastly to those under Australia's jurisdiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 Looks like NZ politicians are as eloquent as Aussie ones! News of his detention prompted broadsides from opposition MPs in his home country, including New Zealand Labour’s corrections spokesman Kelvin Davis, who said it was an example of the “politics of fear” and “pretty damn **** to be honest”. http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/nov/12/nz-soldier-who-was-pms-bodyguard-faces-deportation-from-australia?CMP=soc_567 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiralx Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Isn't a bikie gang an illegal organisation ?And if so, doesn't that mean he has failed the character test ? Yes and yes. But there never seems to be any attempt to close down this alleged 'illegal' organisation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Isn't a bikie gang an illegal organisation ? If you read the article, it says that the Rebels are not illegal in WA, where this chap was arrested. It's often worth checking facts and forming your own opinions rather than just reciting the party line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robfromdublin Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Isn't a bikie gang an illegal organisation ?And if so, doesn't that mean he has failed the character test ? Yes and yes. Actually the answer to the first question is: No, it is NOT an illegal organisation in the state in which this guy lives and works. So the fact that a decorated soldier who has RISKED HIS LIFE for ANZAC aims can be locked in prison with no trial, no publicly available evidence and purely on the whim of Peter Dutton, without ANY accountability is f*cking outrageous. He might be Hannibal Lecter himself, but if he is then it should be demonstrated in an open and transparent manner with a court appearance and some form of evidence that we all can see. That is the basis of our legal system. This government is an absolute joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 Actually the answer to the first question is: No, it is NOT an illegal organisation in the state in which this guy lives and works. So the fact that a decorated soldier who has RISKED HIS LIFE for ANZAC aims can be locked in prison with no trial, no publicly available evidence and purely on the whim of Peter Dutton, without ANY accountability is f*cking outrageous. He might be Hannibal Lecter himself, but if he is then it should be demonstrated in an open and transparent manner with a court appearance and some form of evidence that we all can see. That is the basis of our legal system. This government is an absolute joke. Beautifully put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencio Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 There a some other examples of high decorated soldiers who really committed crimes back in civil life as they couldn't cope with resuming a 'normal' life be it trauma or posttraumatic stress syndrome. In this case I can't believe that the rule of law hasn't been applied. My first thought was 'Why on earth is this successful handsome chap joining a bikie gang in Australia?' Hopefully some leaks will enlighten us as I really can't believe that a visit in a prison/detention centre (what ever facility) leads to revoking a visa for the visitor. That's strange, the description a little bit too thin for my taste and hopefully more details will shine a light on the whole story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robfromdublin Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 There a some other examples of high decorated soldiers who really committed crimes back in civil life as they couldn't cope with resuming a 'normal' life be it trauma or posttraumatic stress syndrome. In this case I can't believe that the rule of law hasn't been applied.My first thought was 'Why on earth is this successful handsome chap joining a bikie gang in Australia?' Hopefully some leaks will enlighten us as I really can't believe that a visit in a prison/detention centre (what ever facility) leads to revoking a visa for the visitor. That's strange, the description a little bit too thin for my taste and hopefully more details will shine a light on the whole story. And you see Dutton providing them do you? Or allowing the guy to defend himself in public proceedings? The whole point is this is extrajudicial and so the government does not have to provide any details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie2012 Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I think we're past the point where batons are very useful. Same with those silly hats. I was breathalysed yesterday and asked for my license. I found the whole encounter reassuring and non-threatening. In a police state I would have been asked all sorts of irrelevant questions and threatened. The difference is the world has changed and the more crime you tolerate - the more there will be. It is the citizen's duty to know the laws and their obligations under them. It is not the pointy hat and you know that. And batons are still used even in the USA and I challenge you to try it out and tell me that it is not an effective weapon, because that is what a baton is a "weapon" that can be deadly in proper hands. You can carry other "non lethal" weapons on you. An I have been stopped several times for RBT and I just do not like the feeling when a cop walks up to me with his hand on the gun. For me it is intimidating and frightening. And not that cops here are not hesitant to shoot: if you do not stop they will not hesitate to pull the gun and shoot at you. You do not have to be a criminal not to stop. There is this ICE epidemic and could be a young person who just lost his way and fails to stop for police: does this mean that he deserves a bullet and potentially being sentenced to DEATH by the COP? If we agree that we humans can make mistakes, than it is given that a COP will make a mistake with a GUN in his hand. There is no death penalty in Australia, yet the police can become a JUDGE and EXECUTIONER any day. And that is usually one of the signs of a police state I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie2012 Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Good article here if you havent read it already: http://theaimn.com/the-top-5-signs-that-your-countrys-refugee-policy-is-a-disaster/ I particularly like: Number One: A country in the Axis-of-Evil thinks you’ve gone too far Over 110 countries lined up at the UN this week to comment on Australia’s refugee policies. In fact, so many countries wanted to raise issues at the periodic UN review, that each was given a time limit of just over a minute to speak. Between them they still managed to raise over 300 concerns in just that space of time. Among their number was long-term member of Bush’s ‘Axis-of-evil’ – North Korea – who said that they: “ have serious concerns at the continued reports of … violence against refugees and asylum seekers“. I do not think the UN has any business dictating any country what their border policy is. Strip it down, this is not a refugee issue but a border control issue. Especially, if the UN is made of countries like North Korea, Nigeria, Iran all those countries that to this date are committing far worse atrocities. The US immigration detention centers are not any better than the Australians and their deportation policies even worse. But who dares to condemn the US in the UN? If you deny the fact that in this day and age people from poorer countries will do anything by any means to try to get to countries to get a better life (and I do not blame them and I thank god that I was born into the Western World), than you do not know better. The fact is, that majority of people claiming refugee status are only economical migrants, who were coached by the smugglers "what to claim and say". It is only logical to hold them until their claims can be verified. That is where the detention centre comes in play. Why should you let someone in the country and let them integrate into society when you don not know WHO they are. Think of detention centres as council housing. You hand over a property and the migrants choose either to destroy it or keep it up. Remember, they are not paying for anything, get provided food and shelter in a campground setting. Remember, our very own homeless people have it much worse. Now, if you destroy your own living facilities, why should the Australian government and you the Taxpayer continuously foot the bill for repairs and upgrades. Besides, I am certain that the Australian government would not object should the UN want to provide funds and build Hotel like accommodations for these refugees, but I do not see any offers of these sort surfacing among the criticism. The point is, as in council estates/housing, the conditions within these are largely affected by their occupants. Violence these days could classify to be anything and yes, I agree there should be a civil oversight of the operations of these facilities and out of the line guards punished. And so should the be the refugees if they turn out to be something else than a peaceful bunch. Probably children suffer the most and perhaps should not be living there. But then what do you do? break up a family and put them in youth centres or place them to families? I do not know what the solution is but I do not think Australia is so much out of line here. You've probably heard of the Calais immigration camp in France and how many "refugees" are trying to cross the channels to the UK every day. Do you think conditions there are better? I do not know what the best solution is, but I know that the UN should not voice anything abut Australia. The very fact that there are detention centres means that the process is working and we are trying to do the right thing, at least we're not putting people right back on the boat/plane like in the Us where an immigration agent decides quiet quickly your refugee status and charges the country of origin for the ticket. To my understanding, Australia even pays and tries to re-settle people who are found not to be refugees. I would like to see just how many UN states who criticizing us do the same? I am not cruel and I do feel for the world. There are many valid reasons to be a refugee and we as humans we should be compassionate. But I also see a different side where in most conflicts this day and age internal matters of certain states should be resolved within their borders and us as Western societies should not be interfering. Our ancestors built our societies because they fought for it and wanted it. So perhaps it is time for those nations to take action against their own oppressors within their own borders and build a better life for themselves, without asking us to do it for them or running away and claiming "refugee" status. My home is Australia and if I was called upon to defend it, I would do so without questions. Do you think someone, who ran away from their own country because they rather not fight for their own livelihood, would do the same? I know that often this is not so simple, but many times it is.... Off topic again, but the point is, I think in Australia we are smart enough and democratic enough to deal with our won backyard without the continuous criticism f the UN the home grown "cry wolves" the Greens.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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