ItchyFeet76 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Hi there, I'm an old member but have been away from the forum for the past year or so as our emigration attempts hit a dead end due to a rather disappointing skills assessment. We're not revisiting the idea (hoped for PR before we come out but looks like that's not going to happen) and are resigned to the idea of a 457 (again). There really is no other option (other than not going at all) so, for us, it's going to be the risky way or the highway. So, to get to the point. If we come on a 457 (assuming no employer fancies the Direct Entry route, this is) we're looking at the 186 Transitional route where you have to work for 2 years for the same employer on a 457, be under 50, have 6 on the IELTS (or a British passport) and a positive skills assessment (which we will have assuming Microsoft don't 'legacy' the MCITP when we next apply). Question: Do we still need 60 points to go down this route? I've done extensive research (thanks, Google) and can't find anything saying so, so am hoping that's the case as my husband was 42 this month and, if we go within the next year or so, by the time he's worked long enough in Oz to get the extra points we need (3 years' experience) he'll be over 45 and lose 15 points. His current skills assessment runs out 30/04/16 so we either go before then on the Direct Entry route (you need skills + 3 yrs' experience) or wait until we've saved up and do it later in the year or the following year, by which time it won't matter if he's over 45 by the time we apply for PR as he'll still be under 50. Sorry for the long thread around just one question - wanted to explain our situation so it's easier to answer (and also incase anyone has a brainwave idea we're missing!). Thanks, I-F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Hi, We are going down the 457 route too as hubby is 45 so doesn't have enough points. We actually paid for a visa assessment with a MARA registered agent and they told us you don't need 60 points to transfer to PR from a 457 visa. I hope that helps. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leah28 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) We recently got our PR, were from 457 too, the way i understand it if your sponsoring company in 457 after 2 years will sponsor you again in PR then you will not need to pass 60 points but if you will apply it indepedently like we do because our sponsoring company did not sponsor us to PR so our option is visa 189 and 190 which are both permanent visa and need to have at least 60 points, we choose 190 state sponsorship to get an extra 5 points and my husband got 60 points, we waited 11 weeks for our visa grants. Edited October 16, 2015 by leah28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Hi there, I'm an old member but have been away from the forum for the past year or so as our emigration attempts hit a dead end due to a rather disappointing skills assessment. We're not revisiting the idea (hoped for PR before we come out but looks like that's not going to happen) and are resigned to the idea of a 457 (again). There really is no other option (other than not going at all) so, for us, it's going to be the risky way or the highway. So, to get to the point. If we come on a 457 (assuming no employer fancies the Direct Entry route, this is) we're looking at the 186 Transitional route where you have to work for 2 years for the same employer on a 457, be under 50, have 6 on the IELTS (or a British passport) and a positive skills assessment (which we will have assuming Microsoft don't 'legacy' the MCITP when we next apply). Question: Do we still need 60 points to go down this route? I've done extensive research (thanks, Google) and can't find anything saying so, so am hoping that's the case as my husband was 42 this month and, if we go within the next year or so, by the time he's worked long enough in Oz to get the extra points we need (3 years' experience) he'll be over 45 and lose 15 points. His current skills assessment runs out 30/04/16 so we either go before then on the Direct Entry route (you need skills + 3 yrs' experience) or wait until we've saved up and do it later in the year or the following year, by which time it won't matter if he's over 45 by the time we apply for PR as he'll still be under 50. Sorry for the long thread around just one question - wanted to explain our situation so it's easier to answer (and also incase anyone has a brainwave idea we're missing!). Thanks, I-F The points test does not relate to employer sponsored visas. It is for skilled migrant visas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I'm pretty sure Leah is right. IF your employer sponsors you after two years on the 457, then you don't need the points. However, as I'm sure you know, the employer isn't under any obligation to sponsor you. They may promise at the start of the contract, but if they don't fulfil the promise, you have no legal basis to challenge them and haven't a leg to stand on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItchyFeet76 Posted October 16, 2015 Author Share Posted October 16, 2015 Thanks guys, that's all good to know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzukiscottie Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 And after 2 years on a 457, you don't need a skills assessment either if you are being sponsored for the same role you have been working in. You don't have to wait 2 years though, if you have a positive skills assessment. You can go for PR on your own at any time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItchyFeet76 Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 Suzukiscottie - which route is that then? If we used his current skills on a 190 we're still 5 points short (3 yrs' exp, diploma, 42 yrs old, no Aus exp, no partner skills)... :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Suzukiscottie - which route is that then? If we used his current skills on a 190 we're still 5 points short (3 yrs' exp, diploma, 42 yrs old, no Aus exp, no partner skills)... :-/ That is the direct entry employer sponsored PR visa. It is another steam of the 186 visa, there is no points test for employer sponsored visas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItchyFeet76 Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 Ah ok, yes I read about that but my husband doesn't think many employers would be keen to go down that route as it's taking a risk on a complete stranger and spending money / hassle when they don't even know how you're going to get on in the job (my argument for this is that they wouldn't offer the job unless they had a certain degree of confidence in you and your abilities!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Ah ok, yes I read about that but my husband doesn't think many employers would be keen to go down that route as it's taking a risk on a complete stranger and spending money / hassle when they don't even know how you're going to get on in the job (my argument for this is that they wouldn't offer the job unless they had a certain degree of confidence in you and your abilities!). I don't think anyone was suggesting that it was easy, but just that it was a route. Still a lot of people think they do have to spend two years on a 457 visa before they can be sponsored for the 186 visa, so it is worth knowing that this is not the case. The employee could be sponsored for the 186 visa direct entry after, say, six months. That should be long enough for the employer to get the measure of a person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItchyFeet76 Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 That's a good point - we just assumed it had to be done when you applied for the 457 so that's reassuring to know, thanks [emoji4] If we wait to save up enough money for flights, shipping, temp accomm then it'll be this time next year though, so we'd need to get another skills done... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 That's a good point - we just assumed it had to be done when you applied for the 457 so that's reassuring to know, thanks [emoji4] If we wait to save up enough money for flights, shipping, temp accomm then it'll be this time next year though, so we'd need to get another skills done... Sorry assumed what had to be done when applying for the 457 visa? I hope something I said has not been misconstrued, i was commenting on the 186 visa not the 457. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItchyFeet76 Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 Direct entry - thought it had to be specified at time of applying for 457. Didn't mean to confuse you, sorry! [emoji39] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Direct entry - thought it had to be specified at time of applying for 457. Didn't mean to confuse you, sorry! [emoji39] Direct entry pertains to the 186 visa. It has absolutely zero to do with the 457 visa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieMay24 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Direct Entry can be applied for at any time. When considering an overseas transfer of an employee who was 48, my company's migration agent suggested lodging the 457 and 186 DE pretty much back-to-back since he'd be too old to go through the TRT stream, and the 457 would be much quicker to get him into Australia and working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Ah ok, yes I read about that but my husband doesn't think many employers would be keen to go down that route as it's taking a risk on a complete stranger and spending money / hassle when they don't even know how you're going to get on in the job (my argument for this is that they wouldn't offer the job unless they had a certain degree of confidence in you and your abilities!). There aren't many jobs advertising 186 sponsorship. If you are flexible on location and don't want to be in Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane and ? Sorry I can't remember all the places, then you can look for 187 sponsorship which is permanent residence in a rural area. I am pretty sure Adelaide is covered by it. We are looking for chef jobs and have seen a number offering 187 sponsorship. I am not 100% sure but I think that you can apply for permanent residence on the direct entry within 6 months of arriving in oz. If you can manage to really impress your boss very quickly you might be able to convince them to sponsor you for pr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItchyFeet76 Posted October 24, 2015 Author Share Posted October 24, 2015 Yes I can understand them not wanting to spend £4K if they can hire locally for free, but then if that were the case, they wouldn't fulfill the criteria to give a job to a foreigner on a 457 anyway. So you have to assume that, if there's a real shortage of a particular position, then £4K isn't much if it means securing the specialist skills you need. An agent told us that his clients would probably be fine to go down the 186 route eventually (ie not from the start so not direct entry) but we won't get our hopes up until / unless that actually happens (need a job first anyway!). I-F [emoji106] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Yes I can understand them not wanting to spend £4K if they can hire locally for free, but then if that were the case, they wouldn't fulfill the criteria to give a job to a foreigner on a 457 anyway. So you have to assume that, if there's a real shortage of a particular position, then £4K isn't much if it means securing the specialist skills you need. An agent told us that his clients would probably be fine to go down the 186 route eventually (ie not from the start so not direct entry) but we won't get our hopes up until / unless that actually happens (need a job first anyway!). I-F [emoji106] Does it cost £4k for the employer part of the 186 visa? That is more than I thought, most people will pay their own part of the application fee, unless maybe they are pretty senior, in extreme shortage and good at negotiating. But I don't think money would be the main issue, it would be about locking the person in which a 457 would do whilst the 186 would not. If they go to the trouble of sponsoring, they want to make sure they get a good return on the investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItchyFeet76 Posted October 24, 2015 Author Share Posted October 24, 2015 I looked on the government website and for us (2 adults + 3 kids) it was around $8k... Obviously if it's just one person / a couple with no dependants, it would be less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItchyFeet76 Posted October 24, 2015 Author Share Posted October 24, 2015 Ps yes I see where you're coming from - commitment to the post would be ensured by Direct Entry as you are under a 2-year contract (though I'm sure there are unscrupulous individuals who, once receiving PR via this route, leave and - unless their employer reports them to DIBP - go their own way with their new ticket to freedom!). 467 with promise of ENS after 2 years is also ensuring continuous labour for the employer (for 2 years, at least), but if it doesn't work out he can send you on your merry way (whereas with the DE I think he has to put up with you for the duration of the 2 years - am I right...?) [emoji55] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Ps yes I see where you're coming from - commitment to the post would be ensured by Direct Entry as you are under a 2-year contract (though I'm sure there are unscrupulous individuals who, once receiving PR via this route, leave and - unless their employer reports them to DIBP - go their own way with their new ticket to freedom!). 467 with promise of ENS after 2 years is also ensuring continuous labour for the employer (for 2 years, at least), but if it doesn't work out he can send you on your merry way (whereas with the DE I think he has to put up with you for the duration of the 2 years - am I right...?) [emoji55] An employee that leaves the minute the 186 is granted might find themselves reported and under investigation. But an employe that leaves says six months after the 186 is granted will not experience any repercussions, th employer on the other hand, might feel aggrieved that they got someone a permanent visa only for them to leave after six months. No employer ever has to commit to retaining an employee, if the role is redundant it is redundant, the employer might even go bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ainell29 Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 We recently got our PR, were from 457 too, the way i understand it if your sponsoring company in 457 after 2 years will sponsor you again in PR then you will not need to pass 60 points but if you will apply it indepedently like we do because our sponsoring company did not sponsor us to PR so our option is visa 189 and 190 which are both permanent visa and need to have at least 60 points, we choose 190 state sponsorship to get an extra 5 points and my husband got 60 points, we waited 11 weeks for our visa grants. Hi, just got my 457 and hoping to start on January. So it's you said your present employer didn't sponsor you for PR, the options are 189 and 190visa- do you need to sit for An English test even if you are british? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Hi, just got my 457 and hoping to start on January. So it's you said your present employer didn't sponsor you for PR, the options are 189 and 190visa- do you need to sit for An English test even if you are british? No British do not need to sit an English test for the visa application, but most will do because it is easy points. Easier than a degree, phd or many years of work experience which provide similar number of points that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItchyFeet76 Posted October 24, 2015 Author Share Posted October 24, 2015 I think you do for the 189 as that's general skilled migration, and also the 190 as that's state sponsored migration, and both are subject to the 60 points threshold afaik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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