Unemployment in Perth?

[flag of convenience]

I went through the last bust and it wasn't all that bad. Hell I even worked for mining companies (analysis of ore) and didn't feel the effects all that bad.

 

Whoever said Perth will return to normality got it right, that's all it will be, normal rents, normal house prices, normal wages just where they should be. God some of these negative posts will have people running for the bomb shelters.

 

Which is a hell of a difference from the abnormal pricing at present. The boom being far bigger than the previous as such the bust must be accordingly so.

[Paul1Perth]

Well so it should come to normality , some people are paid over the odds ! People choose their careers for a reason , and yes ya do feel sorry for tradies in the heat , but why come to Australia knowing the heats a killer at the end of the day tradies go home at night and switch off someone in a professional position doesn't switch off when they get home they make all the decisions and the tradies my hubbies worked with which by the way he got on with sodded off the pub without a care in the world when they knock off and don't give a **** lol you will always get the office worker v tradies banter going on but ask any tradie and they don't want the responsibility and if they could do it they would . But without the office worker the tradies would have nowt build anyway lol and I hope wa does hold out I'm concerned more for newbies arriving it's a shame ! Them who r here now well Theve just got take it on the chin like me haha although it gets on me pip but no worries

 

I've been in a professional position, as you call it, nearly all my working life Shelly and I've always made sure I switch off. I hardly talk about work to my missus, never got into the habit of answering my phone when people from work maybe think I should, I don't even take it out with me at weekends. If your hubby can't switch off and takes his work home with him, can't relax then really it's his won fault for letting it get to that stage.

 

One of the huge favours starting working life as a fitter for the NCB and being in a Union taught me was you have to stand up for your rights when it comes to hours of work and responsibility, otherwise your employer will just ask more and more and the more you give the more will be expected. Usually for no more money. If I suggested people be in a Union where I work now I would be laughed at, they say they don't need a Union, they are clever and respected enough to be able to negotiate their salary, working conditions etc. Those same people are a bit like your husband and complain that they are at the beck and call of their employer 24x7. When I tell them what I do they ask how I get away with it. I've never let the employer think any differently. When I'm at work I don't mind working hard and I don't mind the odd extra hour here and there if needed to get the job done.

 

What I'm not going to do though is stay at the office 2 hours a day extra and get into that habit, like a lot of people do. I'm out the door, not reachable as soon as poss.

 

Any tradie that works for themselves would be working and stressed just as much as your "professional" guy too. I don't begrudge them a penny. The big miners and companies have been making record profits for years, all the time complaining how much they are having to pay their staff, saying it's unsustainable. End of the tax year, what do you know, record profits again. It's about time the workers got some of it.

[Shellybingobingo]

I've been in a professional position, as you call it, nearly all my working life Shelly and I've always made sure I switch off. I hardly talk about work to my missus, never got into the habit of answering my phone when people from work maybe think I should, I don't even take it out with me at weekends. If your hubby can't switch off and takes his work home with him, can't relax then really it's his won fault for letting it get to that stage.

 

One of the huge favours starting working life as a fitter for the NCB and being in a Union taught me was you have to stand up for your rights when it comes to hours of work and responsibility, otherwise your employer will just ask more and more and the more you give the more will be expected. Usually for no more money. If I suggested people be in a Union where I work now I would be laughed at, they say they don't need a Union, they are clever and respected enough to be able to negotiate their salary, working conditions etc. Those same people are a bit like your husband and complain that they are at the beck and call of their employer 24x7. When I tell them what I do they ask how I get away with it. I've never let the employer think any differently. When I'm at work I don't mind working hard and I don't mind the odd extra hour here and there if needed to get the job done.

 

What I'm not going to do though is stay at the office 2 hours a day extra and get into that habit, like a lot of people do. I'm out the door, not reachable as soon as poss.

 

Any tradie that works for themselves would be working and stressed just as much as your "professional" guy too. I don't begrudge them a penny. The big miners and companies have been making record profits for years, all the time complaining how much they are having to pay their staff, saying it's unsustainable. End of the tax year, what do you know, record profits again. It's about time the workers got some of it.[/quote

 

 

hes always been like that Paul he is at Nobodies beck and call though you don't understand so no use me explaining lol and not stressed when he gets home but a tradie hasn't got the responsibility on site as my hubbies has don't mean for that sound rude or anything ! That's just it people don't understand lol

[Shellybingobingo]

And I'm nosey I ask him about his job not that he wants to tell me but I find it interesting what's wrong with that lol not that I understand it niether but I do find it interesting and he doesn't explain to me things I don't underat and because there is no point lol

Edited May 21, 2015 by Shellybingobingo

[Shellybingobingo]

The mining companies and other companies make money off the back of the worker any way in some cases , it's business , they hire u out for so much and u don't get that , u agree what ya going work for and then they hire u out for more than double that they pay people it's the way it is , and I don't begrudge the tradies the money niether I'm not saying that but when people say u in it for the money people r they are not charities niether and my hubby has a passion for what he does he loves it no point being in a career if u hate it now is there

[Paul1Perth]

The mining companies and other companies make money off the back of the worker any way in some cases , it's business , they hire u out for so much and u don't get that , u agree what ya going work for and then they hire u out for more than double that they pay people it's the way it is , and I don't begrudge the tradies the money niether I'm not saying that but when people say u in it for the money people r they are not charities niether and my hubby has a passion for what he does he loves it no point being in a career if u hate it now is there

 

Spot on Shelly. If you find something that you like doing and more importantly I think, work with people you can get on with and have a laugh with, then it makes work a lot more bearable. I enjoyed my time as an apprentice and fitter with the NCB mostly because of the characters I was working with and the laughs we used to have, certainly wasn't the conditions or the money. I wouldn't like to be doing that work as an older person though. I like IT, it's interesting, I've been lucky enough to work in places where nearly everyone is easy to get on with, I work with a lot of younger Software Engineers that are usually a bit quirky and a good laugh.

[Paul1Perth]

Heard Andrew Forest on the radio this morning. He's a bit miffed that they didn't have the enquiry into the mining industry. Everyone knows that BHP and Rio are trying to get rid of the smaller operators but they aren't going to admit it are they.

 

It's exactly like the big banks who got fined billions this week. An American politician said they weren't market participants, they were market makers. That's exactly the same as BHP, Rio and Vale of Brazil. They are the market makers and the others have to fit in and try and make a profit out of what the big three can drive the price to. We've already seen the collapse of Atlas Iron mining, which really upset Colin Barnet. Let's hope FMG can manage to keep going.

[VERYSTORMY]

Heard Andrew Forest on the radio this morning. He's a bit miffed that they didn't have the enquiry into the mining industry. Everyone knows that BHP and Rio are trying to get rid of the smaller operators but they aren't going to admit it are they.

 

It's exactly like the big banks who got fined billions this week. An American politician said they weren't market participants, they were market makers. That's exactly the same as BHP, Rio and Vale of Brazil. They are the market makers and the others have to fit in and try and make a profit out of what the big three can drive the price to. We've already seen the collapse of Atlas Iron mining, which really upset Colin Barnet. Let's hope FMG can manage to keep going.

 

Disagree Paul.

 

Twiggy is is miffed that his company - FMG - are doing badly. But, he is behaving like most of the dim wit directors in the game. I have met him, and many other senior board members and have always liked to give them the simple question - what will you do when you wake one morning to find your commodity has halfed in value. You get most a blank look or in Twiggys case a belief it could never happen.

 

The iron ore price is not low. In fact, it is still very overvalued. (Remember that the majority of iron ore is not bought by end users but investors). If we take the price pre China boom of $17 a tonne and extrapolate allowing some increase for continued Chinese post boom use and then deduct for extra supply including FMG, we get to a price of about $35.

 

FMG are miffed that they developed low quality deposits based on high debt. It is simple spitting the dummy.

 

The bigger issue to the forward price is that iron use in China is likely to decrease significantly while Vale is about to almost double supply. It is also rumoured that Vale are not going to sell at spot but at a contract price of about $30. That would mean the spot would have to fall below $30. That closes FMG, and even several BHP and RIO mines in WA.

Edited May 22, 2015 by VERYSTORMY

[Paul1Perth]

Disagree Paul.

 

Twiggy is is miffed that his company - FMG - are doing badly. But, he is behaving like most of the dim wit directors in the game. I have met him, and many other senior board members and have always liked to give them the simple question - what will you do when you wake one morning to find your commodity has halfed in value. You get most a blank look or in Twiggys case a belief it could never happen.

 

The iron ore price is not low. In fact, it is still very overvalued. (Remember that the majority of iron ore is not bought by end users but investors). If we take the price pre China boom of $17 a tonne and extrapolate allowing some increase for continued Chinese post boom use and then deduct for extra supply including FMG, we get to a price of about $35.

 

FMG are miffed that they developed low quality deposits based on high debt. It is simple spitting the dummy.

 

The bigger issue to the forward price is that iron use in China is likely to decrease significantly while Vale is about to almost double supply. It is also rumoured that Vale are not going to sell at spot but at a contract price of about $30. That would mean the spot would have to fall below $30. That closes FMG, and even several BHP and RIO mines in WA.

 

Do you disagree that BHP and Rio are manipulating price to get rid of the smaller miners though VS? It's pretty plain to me and most folk that's what's happening. I've heard from a friend, so can't be 100% sure it's true, that he was at a meeting a couple of years ago at Rio when the CEO spoke and said them and BHP were going to be the only miners left in WA when they'd finished increasing their production.

 

Last I heard about Vale was they were cutting back on production themselves, because of the price. Seems they aren't doing themselves, their shareholders, the country any favours at the moment with their practices. Actually don't know about "themselves" as I'm sure the current management will be getting fat bonuses for cutting back on costs and they've already shown they don't really care about their workforce or the country.

[newjez]

I've been in a professional position, as you call it, nearly all my working life Shelly and I've always made sure I switch off. I hardly talk about work to my missus, never got into the habit of answering my phone when people from work maybe think I should, I don't even take it out with me at weekends. If your hubby can't switch off and takes his work home with him, can't relax then really it's his won fault for letting it get to that stage.

 

One of the huge favours starting working life as a fitter for the NCB and being in a Union taught me was you have to stand up for your rights when it comes to hours of work and responsibility, otherwise your employer will just ask more and more and the more you give the more will be expected. Usually for no more money. If I suggested people be in a Union where I work now I would be laughed at, they say they don't need a Union, they are clever and respected enough to be able to negotiate their salary, working conditions etc. Those same people are a bit like your husband and complain that they are at the beck and call of their employer 24x7. When I tell them what I do they ask how I get away with it. I've never let the employer think any differently. When I'm at work I don't mind working hard and I don't mind the odd extra hour here and there if needed to get the job done.

 

What I'm not going to do though is stay at the office 2 hours a day extra and get into that habit, like a lot of people do. I'm out the door, not reachable as soon as poss.

 

Any tradie that works for themselves would be working and stressed just as much as your "professional" guy too. I don't begrudge them a penny. The big miners and companies have been making record profits for years, all the time complaining how much they are having to pay their staff, saying it's unsustainable. End of the tax year, what do you know, record profits again. It's about time the workers got some of it.

 

 

Careful Paul, people on here will start calling you a Lettie pinkie!

 

I have a friend who works at amex. She said they loosened up their working practices, with lots working from home, working remotely etc. She thought it was great until she realised that they did it to save money on office space, and that as you worked from home, they considered you to be always at work and always contactable.

[newjez]

Do you disagree that BHP and Rio are manipulating price to get rid of the smaller miners though VS? It's pretty plain to me and most folk that's what's happening. I've heard from a friend, so can't be 100% sure it's true, that he was at a meeting a couple of years ago at Rio when the CEO spoke and said them and BHP were going to be the only miners left in WA when they'd finished increasing their production.

 

Last I heard about Vale was they were cutting back on production themselves, because of the price. Seems they aren't doing themselves, their shareholders, the country any favours at the moment with their practices. Actually don't know about "themselves" as I'm sure the current management will be getting fat bonuses for cutting back on costs and they've already shown they don't really care about their workforce or the country.

 

Firstly, you may want to look at the fmg increase in production. You could say that there is a good agreement for them putting atlas out of action.

 

Secondly, you need to look at the quality of the fmg product. It is of lower quality than many other producers, and as it's inefficient it should be the first to stop.

 

Thirdly, consider yourself a shareholder in any company. Would you want your company to forgo profits to help out their competitors?

 

Fourthly, consider if they were utility companies, providing elec and gas. Would you be happy if they were restricting supply to keep prices high for their consumers if you?

 

Fifthly, a company has to borrow responsibility. They must take into consideration the fact that the market could change. They thought China was the new normal. They thought wrong. When the tide goes out, you see who's swimming naked.

[flag of convenience]

Heard Andrew Forest on the radio this morning. He's a bit miffed that they didn't have the enquiry into the mining industry. Everyone knows that BHP and Rio are trying to get rid of the smaller operators but they aren't going to admit it are they.

 

It's exactly like the big banks who got fined billions this week. An American politician said they weren't market participants, they were market makers. That's exactly the same as BHP, Rio and Vale of Brazil. They are the market makers and the others have to fit in and try and make a profit out of what the big three can drive the price to. We've already seen the collapse of Atlas Iron mining, which really upset Colin Barnet. Let's hope FMG can manage to keep going.

 

The government should never have stated as much in the first place if the intent wasn't there. Make further fools out of an already incompetent government. Rather obvious the intent of the Big Miners.I suppose the issue would be what to do with the findings which were pretty much obvious. The big boys win yet again. Another back flip by a in competent Federal Government.

Edited May 22, 2015 by flag of convenience

[newjez]

An inquiry should have been held. I suppose the issue would be what to do with the findings which were pretty much obvious. The big boys win yet again. Another back flip by a in competent Federal Government.

 

 

All an inquiry would have found was that the industry leaders are incapable of reading their industry. As a shareholder, you may well ask what you are paying for.

[flag of convenience]

All an inquiry would have found was that the industry leaders are incapable of reading their industry. As a shareholder, you may well ask what you are paying for.

 

You are entirely correct but the question still beckons.

[Paul1Perth]

Careful Paul, people on here will start calling you a Lettie pinkie!

 

I have a friend who works at amex. She said they loosened up their working practices, with lots working from home, working remotely etc. She thought it was great until she realised that they did it to save money on office space, and that as you worked from home, they considered you to be always at work and always contactable.

 

I guess the upside of working from home is all the claims you can make against tax.:yes: I had a job in the UK where I worked from home in Manchester, with the head company in London. I thought it would be great and had a nice little development environment and test network set up in the cellar.

 

After a few weeks, the wife got used to me being there and it was just do this, just do that, just look after the youngster while I go to the shops. Hated it, much prefer being "at work" properly.

 

If your friend at amex keeps answering her phone when they ring out of office hours its her own fault newjez. Tell her to stop picking up otherwise they will just expect more and more. If they want to know why tell them she's taken up swimming.:wink:

[Paul1Perth]

Firstly, you may want to look at the fmg increase in production. You could say that there is a good agreement for them putting atlas out of action.

 

Secondly, you need to look at the quality of the fmg product. It is of lower quality than many other producers, and as it's inefficient it should be the first to stop.

 

Thirdly, consider yourself a shareholder in any company. Would you want your company to forgo profits to help out their competitors?

 

Fourthly, consider if they were utility companies, providing elec and gas. Would you be happy if they were restricting supply to keep prices high for their consumers if you?

 

Fifthly, a company has to borrow responsibility. They must take into consideration the fact that the market could change. They thought China was the new normal. They thought wrong. When the tide goes out, you see who's swimming naked.

 

1. FMG have already said they would cut production. Twiggy is right behind it as he knows a cut by the big miners would have an instant affect on the price.

2. Quality then wouldn't matter there would be plenty of profit even for their quality of ore.

3. If I was a shareholder I would be expecting the company to be making the most of every tonne they got out of the ground and maximise the price, not have to produce thousands more tone for the same profit. The share price comes down every time the ore price drops.

4. That's why utility companies like electricity, gas and water should be kept nationalised. Otherwise they will want to rob you and me blind, not spend enough on maintenance to guarantee supply. If they are not carefully regulated and privatised you would get exactly what you are talking about. High prices and no guarantee of supply.

5. I would love to see every company who has to borrow to start up cash in tomorrow. Might be a few more swimming naked than people might imagine. I worked for British Printing Corporation when Robert Maxwell took it over. A couple of years later he committed suicide and had cleaned out BPC's pension fund to try and keep the rest of his business afloat. Some people had worked for BPC all their lives so lost a fortune. Maxwell had been living the life of a multi millionaire for years, along with the rest of his family. For some reason his kids and wife got away scot free, walked away with millions.

 

I've no doubt that FMG and Twiggy, if you made them cash up tomorrow, would probably owe millions. More money than you or I will ever earn. In the meantime he lives the life of a millionaire too. However he's employing lots of Australians and paying them a good wage, so I would prefer him to keep going.

 

My son was working for them until recently. We were worried when he decided to change jobs about 3 months ago, telling him maybe it wasn't a good time. He's been with a contracting electrical company for the last 3 months, had loads of work on better pay and has just changed jobs again. He's going into oil and gas on the Wheatstone project, so hopefully, that will be going for a few years.

[Paul1Perth]

All an inquiry would have found was that the industry leaders are incapable of reading their industry. As a shareholder, you may well ask what you are paying for.

 

I think an enquiry would have found they are very good at reading their industry and know exactly how much power they have over the Iron Ore price. The current CEO's of Rio and BHP are only worried about the next couple of years then they move on. They really haven't got "skin in the game" like Twiggy has. They have shown already they aren't worried about how many people they put out of work, how much tax they pay, how the country that owns the ore is going to suffer if the price drops. The top management will have good jobs till they decide they've had enough. That's all they care about.

[VERYSTORMY]

Do you disagree that BHP and Rio are manipulating price to get rid of the smaller miners though VS? It's pretty plain to me and most folk that's what's happening. I've heard from a friend, so can't be 100% sure it's true, that he was at a meeting a couple of years ago at Rio when the CEO spoke and said them and BHP were going to be the only miners left in WA when they'd finished increasing their production.

 

Last I heard about Vale was they were cutting back on production themselves, because of the price. Seems they aren't doing themselves, their shareholders, the country any favours at the moment with their practices. Actually don't know about "themselves" as I'm sure the current management will be getting fat bonuses for cutting back on costs and they've already shown they don't really care about their workforce or the country.

 

Yes I disagree that Rio / BHP are manipulating price. The busines model for both has always been to increase supply as much as possible. As has every supplier of bulk commodities in any country in history. You must remember that iron ore is not like mining gold or copper. In fact, it is officially regarded as a quarry rather than a mine so regarded as an industrial mineral the same as limestone. The best regarded business model for industrial minerals is to bulk mine - mine more to make more.

 

The expansions of Rio and BHP are not recent decisions. They were made almost a decade ago. Once made, they become self fulfilling as so much money is spent in brownfield exploration, metallurgy, studies and many other aspects that it has to be mined if feasible.

 

FMG took a decision during the boom that the iron demand would remain very high and so invested in what were already regarded as poor quality deposits - you want a iron ore deposit of 62% Fe. This was amazingly stupid.

 

As as for your comment on Vale

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-22/vale-expansion-warning-australia-market-share-at-risk/6490020

[newjez]

1. FMG have already said they would cut production. Twiggy is right behind it as he knows a cut by the big miners would have an instant affect on the price.

2. Quality then wouldn't matter there would be plenty of profit even for their quality of ore.

3. If I was a shareholder I would be expecting the company to be making the most of every tonne they got out of the ground and maximise the price, not have to produce thousands more tone for the same profit. The share price comes down every time the ore price drops.

4. That's why utility companies like electricity, gas and water should be kept nationalised. Otherwise they will want to rob you and me blind, not spend enough on maintenance to guarantee supply. If they are not carefully regulated and privatised you would get exactly what you are talking about. High prices and no guarantee of supply.

5. I would love to see every company who has to borrow to start up cash in tomorrow. Might be a few more swimming naked than people might imagine. I worked for British Printing Corporation when Robert Maxwell took it over. A couple of years later he committed suicide and had cleaned out BPC's pension fund to try and keep the rest of his business afloat. Some people had worked for BPC all their lives so lost a fortune. Maxwell had been living the life of a multi millionaire for years, along with the rest of his family. For some reason his kids and wife got away scot free, walked away with millions.

 

I've no doubt that FMG and Twiggy, if you made them cash up tomorrow, would probably owe millions. More money than you or I will ever earn. In the meantime he lives the life of a millionaire too. However he's employing lots of Australians and paying them a good wage, so I would prefer him to keep going.

 

My son was working for them until recently. We were worried when he decided to change jobs about 3 months ago, telling him maybe it wasn't a good time. He's been with a contracting electrical company for the last 3 months, had loads of work on better pay and has just changed jobs again. He's going into oil and gas on the Wheatstone project, so hopefully, that will be going for a few years.

 

I've never met twiggy, but he does seem to give back more than most. Some call him a philanthropist.

 

But your son probably made a clever move.

[newjez]

I think an enquiry would have found they are very good at reading their industry and know exactly how much power they have over the Iron Ore price. The current CEO's of Rio and BHP are only worried about the next couple of years then they move on. They really haven't got "skin in the game" like Twiggy has. They have shown already they aren't worried about how many people they put out of work, how much tax they pay, how the country that owns the ore is going to suffer if the price drops. The top management will have good jobs till they decide they've had enough. That's all they care about.

 

 

So bhp should lay off their workers for good of who exactly? Brazilian employees?

[americanwoman]

My opinion of the work situation in Perth - having witnessed (and participated) in the tail end of the mining boom - is that there are still jobs BUT -

 

People are coming down off this crazy high of jobs basically growing on trees and getting paid insane wages. When I arrived in Perth in 2013, I was *shocked* at how lackadaisical attitudes were and how much people were consuming. Times were good, and they had been for a few years. Really, really, really good. All that is starting to crumble. Not every single person can just easily get a job... but I personally don't think the job market is "bad" - I just think it's sort of back to reality. An uncomfortable adjustment, hey.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Finding a job is so much about who you know (I think this is true everywhere). I would spend just as much time getting connected on community websites like meetup.com and looking for volunteer opportunities as you do searching for jobs on indeed/seek/gumtree.

 

Hope that helps!

[Shellybingobingo]

My hubbies company is busy ! In Perth ! My hubby is snowed under at the moment probably have to set someone on ! But it will be someone like a apprentice , the lower end paid jobs will still be good to come by ! How long the busy will last is anyone's guess ! My husband is not concerned at the moment but he's concerned for the future he looks ahead and it doesn't look Rosie ! So it's a case of just keep going until the time comes where u think time to go ! I suppose ! But at the minute he's happy enough and he really likes the company too and they like him so bonus !

 

But people coming now I personally think they going struggle in the engineering sector ! I really do !

 

and I've got me backup plan I blinking have lol

Edited June 20, 2015 by Shellybingobingo

[Shellybingobingo]

He also knows people who have had to go overseas ! He knows peeps who have been out for months , he knows people that are ok for know but are on shaky ground ! He knows people who are taking 3 month at a time work on because it's keeping them going ! You do what ya gotta do to get through the storm ! He also knows that people carny afford the higher earners at the minute that's why they leaving ! !