UK capacity

[wakeboard1980]

The equivalent of a 457 visa.

 

First off the UK would have to leave the EU to achieve this. Even then I don't believe the UK can lock down immigration in the way that more remote Australia can without substantially limiting the personal freedoms UK citizens enjoy. Biometric identity cards anyone?

Already have one.

[Gbye grey sky]

Leaving the EU would be a good thing, IMHO.

 

Biometric passports should be sufficient surely?

 

Many would agree with you I am sure about leaving the EU but I can't help but feel it is a double-edge sword.

 

You would need more than biometric passports as the UK has so many access points that bypass passport control and proximity to mainland Europe. You would need biometric ID cards as a minimum and these would be a requirement to access work and public services. Again many would support these too despite the fears of a potential police state.

[Parley]

They are doing all those checks already aren't they ?

I can't see it make much difference to what checks they do already.

[BacktoDemocracy]

Leaving the EU would be a good thing, IMHO.

 

Biometric passports should be sufficient surely?

 

I always feel that the dislike of the EU is a confection of the right who are a product, in the uk , of the public schools and are still fighting the last 2 world wars, the EU has been very successful, it has removed the threat of european war and still remains the best protection of the working man from the power of the State but the right still try to convince us that they are the greatest threat to their freedom to exploit the rest of us.

A practical example of how withdrawing from the EU will affect the uk is the recent reintroduction of passport controls which are only being partly enforced this easter, lets see how it goes at the height of the holidays in August, apart from that simple thought, how much of the economy now comes from tourism from the eu, if we are outside the eu with passport controls that is going to whither away, I can remember coming back on the ferry in the early 2000's and the long lines of cars with only spot checks being done.

Immigration and the bogeyman of overcrowding is a constant easy propaganda from the right to win power, they did it in oz and won and they're doing the same here now, they're not the least bit concerned about immigration other than exploiting it as cheap labour, they simple want power so that they can maintain the status quo and their privileged positions, the immigration issue and the eastern european worker issue is a complete smokescreen for the real issue which is low wages and loss of manufacturing jobs, consider where the working man would be without EU legislation to protect his human rights in the present downturn , if the right do get us out of the EU we will become the sweatshop of Europe with a super rich elite and we will be straight back to the victorian era.

[MARYROSE02]

I always feel that the dislike of the EU is a confection of the right who are a product, in the uk , of the public schools and are still fighting the last 2 world wars, the EU has been very successful, it has removed the threat of european war and still remains the best protection of the working man from the power of the State but the right still try to convince us that they are the greatest threat to their freedom to exploit the rest of us.

A practical example of how withdrawing from the EU will affect the uk is the recent reintroduction of passport controls which are only being partly enforced this easter, lets see how it goes at the height of the holidays in August, apart from that simple thought, how much of the economy now comes from tourism from the eu, if we are outside the eu with passport controls that is going to whither away, I can remember coming back on the ferry in the early 2000's and the long lines of cars with only spot checks being done.

Immigration and the bogeyman of overcrowding is a constant easy propaganda from the right to win power, they did it in oz and won and they're doing the same here now, they're not the least bit concerned about immigration other than exploiting it as cheap labour, they simple want power so that they can maintain the status quo and their privileged positions, the immigration issue and the eastern european worker issue is a complete smokescreen for the real issue which is low wages and loss of manufacturing jobs, consider where the working man would be without EU legislation to protect his human rights in the present downturn , if the right do get us out of the EU we will become the sweatshop of Europe with a super rich elite and we will be straight back to the victorian era.

 

Well, it is true that there has been peace between France and Germany for seventy years, after three awful wars between them in the previous seventy years, but iisn't it possible that France and Germany would have been at peace irrespective of whether they had formed the EC. There was peace in Europe for a hundred years after Waterloo.

 

And where do you get this argument that nasty British public schoolboys and Tories who are still fighting WW1 and WW2 want Britain to withdraw from the EC so they can exploit 'the working man'? I have not researched the topic, so I don't know if the Tory party was continuously opposed to joining the EC, whilst the Labour party was consistently in favour of joining? Did France consistently oppose our joining under De Gaulle? How about the decision not to join the Euro? Was that a short-sighted decision, or a long-sighted decision? Did the Tories favour it and Labour oppose it? And what was the view of the left, outside the Labour Party. Were the Unions always in favour of joining the EC? Were the Socialist/Trot/Communist parties always in favour of joining the EC?

 

Are EC regulations good for 'the working man?' What are working conditions like in Germany/France/Italy, etc, compared to the UK? If they are better, is that because of EC regulations, or because of historically different attitudes within those countries?

 

Are human rights generally better in EC countries? Why would they get worse if the UK did withdraw from the EC?

 

Why is immigration and/or overcrowding a 'bogeyman' rather than a legitimate question? If it works so well for the 'Tories' in Australia, then why don't they use it better so they NEVER lose power. Why don't the Tories in the UK do the same thing?

 

Why shouldn't the UK re-introduce passport control for citizens of the EC? I presume that citizens from countries outside the EC are subject to those same controls?

 

Maybe you are right on all counts. I don't know?

[BacktoDemocracy]

Well, it is true that there has been peace between France and Germany for seventy years, after three awful wars between them in the previous seventy years, but iisn't it possible that France and Germany would have been at peace irrespective of whether they had formed the EC. There was peace in Europe for a hundred years after Waterloo.

 

And where do you get this argument that nasty British public schoolboys and Tories who are still fighting WW1 and WW2 want Britain to withdraw from the EC so they can exploit 'the working man'? I have not researched the topic, so I don't know if the Tory party was continuously opposed to joining the EC, whilst the Labour party was consistently in favour of joining? Did France consistently oppose our joining under De Gaulle? How about the decision not to join the Euro? Was that a short-sighted decision, or a long-sighted decision? Did the Tories favour it and Labour oppose it? And what was the view of the left, outside the Labour Party. Were the Unions always in favour of joining the EC? Were the Socialist/Trot/Communist parties always in favour of joining the EC?

 

Are EC regulations good for 'the working man?' What are working conditions like in Germany/France/Italy, etc, compared to the UK? If they are better, is that because of EC regulations, or because of historically different attitudes within those countries?

 

Are human rights generally better in EC countries? Why would they get worse if the UK did withdraw from the EC?

 

Why is immigration and/or overcrowding a 'bogeyman' rather than a legitimate question? If it works so well for the 'Tories' in Australia, then why don't they use it better so they NEVER lose power. Why don't the Tories in the UK do the same thing?

 

Why shouldn't the UK re-introduce passport control for citizens of the EC? I presume that citizens from countries outside the EC are subject to those same controls?

 

Maybe you are right on all counts. I don't know?

 

This is yet again the same tactic of the right, ignore the central issue of low wages here in the uk and loss of jobs, oz is about to experience the same consequences of a right wing govt due to lack of investment in infrastructure and short termism, German industry has thrived despite workers representatives being mandated onto Boards.

As i said in my post as far as the uk is concerned the real issues for the working man is chronically low paid employment and the loss of manufacturing industry and the concentration of capital into high return financial sectors which led to the collapse of the uk economy, yet still people continue to define every argument as being about immigration, therefore i can only presume that people are more concerned about incomers than about addressing the issues of privilege and concentration of wealth and simply want to concentrate on their own predjudices rather than real issues.

[Gbye grey sky]

This is yet again the same tactic of the right, ignore the central issue of low wages here in the uk and loss of jobs, oz is about to experience the same consequences of a right wing govt due to lack of investment in infrastructure and short termism, German industry has thrived despite workers representatives being mandated onto Boards.

As i said in my post as far as the uk is concerned the real issues for the working man is chronically low paid employment and the loss of manufacturing industry and the concentration of capital into high return financial sectors which led to the collapse of the uk economy, yet still people continue to define every argument as being about immigration, therefore i can only presume that people are more concerned about incomers than about addressing the issues of privilege and concentration of wealth and simply want to concentrate on their own predjudices rather than real issues.

 

A really valid point. The immigration 'issue' is setting the less well off members of society against those that are fundamentally worse off leaving their own country to find employment. Immigration is an issue of course but it has been massively and cleverly overplayed to the point that for many it is the cause of all our ills and without immigrants Britain would be the greatest place in the world. As if!

 

Funny but those same people have no objection to the immigration of a top foreign player to their favourite football team. Hypocritical or what!

[MARYROSE02]

This is yet again the same tactic of the right, ignore the central issue of low wages here in the uk and loss of jobs, oz is about to experience the same consequences of a right wing govt due to lack of investment in infrastructure and short termism, German industry has thrived despite workers representatives being mandated onto Boards.

As i said in my post as far as the uk is concerned the real issues for the working man is chronically low paid employment and the loss of manufacturing industry and the concentration of capital into high return financial sectors which led to the collapse of the uk economy, yet still people continue to define every argument as being about immigration, therefore i can only presume that people are more concerned about incomers than about addressing the issues of privilege and concentration of wealth and simply want to concentrate on their own predjudices rather than real issues.

 

I would love it if Britain and Australia had the same kind of industrial relations as Germany, with both unions and management working together, rather than against each other, and if I lived in Germany I would happily vote SPD, whereas I would sooner vote for Sinn Fein than Labour in the UK.

 

What is this BS about 'the working man' anyway, as if there is such a person, and if there is, why is his best interests served by voting Labour? I'm a 'working many myself, and I have never felt the need or desire to look for protection from Labour, the unions, or the EC.

[BacktoDemocracy]

I would love it if Britain and Australia had the same kind of industrial relations as Germany, with both unions and management working together, rather than against each other, and if I lived in Germany I would happily vote SPD, whereas I would sooner vote for Sinn Fein than Labour in the UK.

 

What is this BS about 'the working man' anyway, as if there is such a person, and if there is, why is his best interests served by voting Labour? I'm a 'working many myself, and I have never felt the need or desire to look for protection from Labour, the unions, or the EC.

 

Well may your good fortune continue but has the right wing parties done anything for you either and can you look into your life and see that it might have been different had the labour party and unions had more influence, would you have had a different set of life choices, would you have enjoyed a better education , a better job.

[BacktoDemocracy]

I would love it if Britain and Australia had the same kind of industrial relations as Germany, with both unions and management working together, rather than against each other, and if I lived in Germany I would happily vote SPD, whereas I would sooner vote for Sinn Fein than Labour in the UK.

 

What is this BS about 'the working man' anyway, as if there is such a person, and if there is, why is his best interests served by voting Labour? I'm a 'working many myself, and I have never felt the need or desire to look for protection from Labour, the unions, or the EC.

 

Well may your good fortune continue but has the right wing parties done anything for you either and can you look into your life and see that it might have been different had the labour party and unions had more influence, would you have had a different set of life choices, would you have enjoyed a better education , a better job.

[Petals]

I would love it if Britain and Australia had the same kind of industrial relations as Germany, with both unions and management working together, rather than against each other, and if I lived in Germany I would happily vote SPD, whereas I would sooner vote for Sinn Fein than Labour in the UK.

 

What is this BS about 'the working man' anyway, as if there is such a person, and if there is, why is his best interests served by voting Labour? I'm a 'working many myself, and I have never felt the need or desire to look for protection from Labour, the unions, or the EC.

 

Unions and Employers do work together but it does not make good newspaper headlines to say "Unions are getting along fine with employers and employees". Our perception of what is going on is often coloured by our dear journalists.

 

There are rogue unions and but then there are rogue societies and associations too, these being the unions of the so called white collar lot. There is no difference between the AMA the Chartered Accountants and the Law Societies than unions they are all looking out for their members.

 

As for voting I personally have voted for both sides and tend to look at the deal as to what is my local member doing in my area is he/she performing and listening to us. Also in this world of getting rid of jobs on the one hand and expecting people not to want assistance and hand outs on the other, when there are no jobs, I tend to have to vote for the underdogs as any intelligent humane person would do, if there are any left.

[Thom]

I always feel that the dislike of the EU is a confection of the right who are a product, in the uk , of the public schools and are still fighting the last 2 world wars, the EU has been very successful, it has removed the threat of european war and still remains the best protection of the working man from the power of the State but the right still try to convince us that they are the greatest threat to their freedom to exploit the rest of us.

A practical example of how withdrawing from the EU will affect the uk is the recent reintroduction of passport controls which are only being partly enforced this easter, lets see how it goes at the height of the holidays in August, apart from that simple thought, how much of the economy now comes from tourism from the eu, if we are outside the eu with passport controls that is going to whither away, I can remember coming back on the ferry in the early 2000's and the long lines of cars with only spot checks being done.

Immigration and the bogeyman of overcrowding is a constant easy propaganda from the right to win power, they did it in oz and won and they're doing the same here now, they're not the least bit concerned about immigration other than exploiting it as cheap labour, they simple want power so that they can maintain the status quo and their privileged positions, the immigration issue and the eastern european worker issue is a complete smokescreen for the real issue which is low wages and loss of manufacturing jobs, consider where the working man would be without EU legislation to protect his human rights in the present downturn , if the right do get us out of the EU we will become the sweatshop of Europe with a super rich elite and we will be straight back to the victorian era.

 

I blame all the imaginary left wing people I have just made up, who want the UK to become a substate of a federal EU. These imaginary people would like to see Westminster disbanded and all power given over to Brussels. The people who exist only in my mind would have rolled over and played dead in WWI leaving us to be a part of Germany forever. Also, they want everyone who earns more that 10,000 quid a year to pay 50% tax on it, and all the money to be given to disabled lesbian Somali illegal immigrants, along with your house and your car.

 

Also these imaginary people, hate everything about you and your friends.

 

Those same people have no objection to the immigration of a top foreign player to their favourite football team. Hypocritical or what!

 

Dear god, it's easy this debate lark. All you have to do is make up imaginary people to substantiate your points!

[Gbye grey sky]

I blame all the imaginary left wing people I have just made up, who want the UK to become a substate of a federal EU. These imaginary people would like to see Westminster disbanded and all power given over to Brussels. The people who exist only in my mind would have rolled over and played dead in WWI leaving us to be a part of Germany forever. Also, they want everyone who earns more that 10,000 quid a year to pay 50% tax on it, and all the money to be given to disabled lesbian Somali illegal immigrants, along with your house and your car.

 

Also these imaginary people, hate everything about you and your friends.

 

Those same people have no objection to the immigration of a top foreign player to their favourite football team. Hypocritical or what!

 

Dear god, it's easy this debate lark. All you have to do is make up imaginary people to substantiate your points!

 

What point are you trying to make?

 

Can you point out any newspaper article where following the import of a foreign footballer they bemoaned the fact that it was taking the job of a British worker. Have you heard any football fans complain ever? Is it because they see immigration as a positive thing for their football team do you think.

 

Easier to focus on the numbers rather than real people and whether or not they are of value and bring benefit to the country. The left and right argument is a red herring as opinion is divided on European Union across the spectrum.

[Thom]

What point are you trying to make?

 

That our friend BtD has made up imaginary people to try to substantiate a vapid point.

 

Can you point out any newspaper article where following the import of a foreign footballer they bemoaned the fact that it was taking the job of a British worker. Have you heard any football fans complain ever? Is it because they see immigration as a positive thing for their football team do you think.

 

Of course no, that's a bit silly.

 

Easier to focus on the numbers rather than real people and whether or not they are of value and bring benefit to the country.

 

I am fully supportive of that debate, and very anti-this view that wholesale immigration is a good thing.

 

 

The left and right argument is a red herring as opinion is divided on European Union across the spectrum.

 

Well I don't think I have been making that argument, have I?

[Paul1Perth]

There will never be any cities built in Snowdonia, Dartmoor, The Lakes, Pembrokeshire or any other National Parks so if that is your primary concern you are barking up the wrong tree. There are no jobs for the people who live there already so immigrants will not be attracted to live there.

 

Don't think work being there will put people off. You've already got people commuting from Derbyshire to London for work, just so they can live close to some countryside in a nice house they can afford. Those small villages in the Peak District and the bigger towns and Cities on the edge (Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds) are forever expanding and taking a little bit more. Slowly it gets smaller, more populated. Go there on a bank holiday weekend and try and find somewhere to park.

[Thom]

Don't think work being there will put people off. You've already got people commuting from Derbyshire to London for work, just so they can live close to some countryside in a nice house they can afford.

 

I know two people, not related in any way, who both commute from the Penzance area to London for 3-4 days per week of work, so they can live in a nice part of the country.

[Guest Amelie]

The head office I work for is in London and I commute from Manchester…a few of my colleagues commute from Doncaster and Loughborough on a daily basis. The trains are very efficient.

[paulv]

I blame all the imaginary left wing people I have just made up, who want the UK to become a substate of a federal EU. These imaginary people would like to see Westminster disbanded and all power given over to Brussels. The people who exist only in my mind would have rolled over and played dead in WWI leaving us to be a part of Germany forever. Also, they want everyone who earns more that 10,000 quid a year to pay 50% tax on it, and all the money to be given to disabled lesbian Somali illegal immigrants, along with your house and your car.

 

Also these imaginary people, hate everything about you and your friends.

 

Those same people have no objection to the immigration of a top foreign player to their favourite football team. Hypocritical or what!

 

Dear god, it's easy this debate lark. All you have to do is make up imaginary people to substantiate your points!

 

 

Why make up imaginary people when you can make facile suppositions equating immigration with urbanising national parks?

[Thom]

From four pages ago, do try to keep up....

 

 

While I happily admit I was using extremes (Dartmoor, etc,) to illustrate my point, no one has yet engaged on the core position, how much of the UK are we prepared to see changed from "this green and pleasant land" in order to accommodate immigrants?

[Paul1Perth]

The head office I work for is in London and I commute from Manchester…a few of my colleagues commute from Doncaster and Loughborough on a daily basis. The trains are very efficient.

 

Sooner you than me. I wouldn't fancy that trip, hope you don't do it daily?. I had a job in London for about a year when we lived in Gee Cross, near Manchester. Used to drive down Monday and back Friday. The company would put me up in a hotel for the week. Wasn't too bad, we were out in Teddington, which is a lovely spot to be in. Wouldn't know you were near London really, good pubs and nice parks nearby.

[Thom]

Thanks to the Neptune Campaign, the trust now cares for one in every three miles of Devon coastline.

 

And in all, since the campaign began, it has acquired 775 miles – or nearly a third – of the coastline of England, Wales and Northern Ireland…

“This is now in safe hands, a free coastal corridor enjoyed by millions,” the trust spokesman told the WMN. “When Neptune was launched back in 1965, everything from oil refineries to holiday parks was multiplying along the coastline.

“Today, the coast is still under great pressure, and the trust continues to work to look after what it has and make it welcoming to all, as well as a haven for wildlife.”

The charity’s coast and marine adviser, Phil Dyke, commented: “The shores that surround us have dramatically shaped our history and the way we live. Millions of us daydream about days at the seaside, and many of our special places can be found on the coast.

“But our coast is a fragile environment, and always changing. We need to work with this process of change, such as rising sea levels and natural erosion. And inappropriate development or urban sprawl should be contested and stopped.

 

Read more: http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk/Military-wasteland-transformed-true-National/story-26290278-detail/story.html#ixzz3WgFPrXGG

Follow us: @WMNNews on Twitter | westernmorningnews on Facebook

 

Gets my vote

[paulv]

Gets my vote

 

What does that have to do with UK capacity? Are you seriously suggesting that the UK will be forced to build upon coastal pathways when there are millions of acres of unused land around the UK, closer to existing economic hubs?

You need to reel it in jonah!

[Thom]

What it has to do with UK capacity, I would have though was rather obvious. Capacity is regulated by development, and development is a result of increased demand.