Is the 'Pacific Solution' unravelling?

[flag of convenience]

So, what is your argument? That so long as the number of 'bad eggs' do not reach a certain percentage, we do not need to worry? You could apply that argument to any number of situations, eg, percentage of all drivers who are drink drivers, and / or the percentage of drink drivers who cause accidents.

 

Exactly. Same applies to those in search of asylum. Glad the message is getting through.

[BacktoDemocracy]

Wrong, Harpo. It's like saying you should lock up all Catholic priests, who arrive in Australia illegally, claiming to be refugees fleeing from oppression. Using your logic, if an entire ship load of ISIS arrived, especially if they brought wives and children, you would immediately release them into the community.

 

Come to think of it, if your logic is correct, young Aussie Moslems, radicalised by the Government's treatment of Moslem asylum seekers, head overseas to join ISIS and learn how to be terrorists, then sneak back into Australia disguised as asylum seekers to carry out terrorist attacks here.

 

It seems to me far more likely that 'fear and xenophobia' has mushroomed since a succession of terrorist attacks in various countries - 911, 707, Madrid, Bali, Paris, and the recent attack in Sydney. Incidentally, why haven't those terrorist attacks radicalised young Westerners to carry out terrorist attacks in immigrant communities?

 

But it has, how many mosques have been attacked, why do you think ethnic communities stay in their own little enclaves, even the jews do it, because they feel safe and what is it that they feel safe from, persecution by the indigenous population.

[flag of convenience]

Sniffs:laugh:

 

Oh, I forgot to add. That Indian Cobra Oil to assist with turning around your baldness really does need to be applied at boiling point. That's the magic of it. The third degree burns will heal. Worth the price I guess to restore confidence that will allow you to get and about again. Hope it works its magic. Don't speak from experience of course.

[BacktoDemocracy]

So you are saying he had faults, and many people despised him, but he did some good things. Sounds a bit like Tony Abbott, who takes an active part in his community, volunteering for the bush fire brigade, and surf life saving, and organising charity bike rides. You might say he had compassion for his fellow Australians.

 

Tony Abbott has only one concern and that is for himself, it's all about image just the same as Putin, I can only assume that there is a huge sense of conflict for them about their masculinity with this need to be strutting their stuff in public all the time.

I do wonder what it was that stopped Abbott from joining the priesthood and his need to be an alpha male all the time.

[flag of convenience]

Wrong, Harpo. It's like saying you should lock up all Catholic priests, who arrive in Australia illegally, claiming to be refugees fleeing from oppression. Using your logic, if an entire ship load of ISIS arrived, especially if they brought wives and children, you would immediately release them into the community.

 

Come to think of it, if your logic is correct, young Aussie Moslems, radicalised by the Government's treatment of Moslem asylum seekers, head overseas to join ISIS and learn how to be terrorists, then sneak back into Australia disguised as asylum seekers to carry out terrorist attacks here.

 

It seems to me far more likely that 'fear and xenophobia' has mushroomed since a succession of terrorist attacks in various countries - 911, 707, Madrid, Bali, Paris, and the recent attack in Sydney. Incidentally, why haven't those terrorist attacks radicalised young Westerners to carry out terrorist attacks in immigrant communities?

 

Well attacks on Muslims have been widely reported to have intensified across the globe. The fear was introduced largely as government policy which in itself was a win for terrorism.

 

Why would Muslims going to fight for a cause they have likely been manipulated into believing be any threat to Australia? They may be but it is by no means a certainty. The argument being those returning after disillusionment with their experience may properly monitored in the early stages, be the weapon against others going to the conflict zone.

 

I know Australia accepted as refugees a number of Nazi's after WW2 but that doesn't mean a flood of ISIS fighters and their families wanting to come to Australia. Most are committed one imagines to their cause. Besides there is vetting, much improved from post war days and Nazi arrivals.

[flag of convenience]

Tony Abbott has only one concern and that is for himself, it's all about image just the same as Putin, I can only assume that there is a huge sense of conflict for them about their masculinity with this need to be strutting their stuff in public all the time.

I do wonder what it was that stopped Abbott from joining the priesthood and his need to be an alpha male all the time.

 

I have often thought Abbott a imitation on a smaller scale as Putin. Both big ego's and as you state in huge conflict with their masculinity.

[Danny842003]

Tony Abbott has only one concern and that is for himself, it's all about image just the same as Putin, I can only assume that there is a huge sense of conflict for them about their masculinity with this need to be strutting their stuff in public all the time.

I do wonder what it was that stopped Abbott from joining the priesthood and his need to be an alpha male all the time.

 

I honestly think I have heard it all now.

[BacktoDemocracy]

I do always wonder about why people adopt such right wing views which seem to be absolutely unshakable and they are adamant that they are right even in the face of scientific proof to the contrary of their views.

I find it fascinating and scary that the future could well be determined by ideologues with zero ability to empathise or imagine what the future may look like or whose motivation is purely personal.

I personally believe that the issue for the left is that they know that there is no perfect answer to complex problems and they are reluctant to pursue a single line of reasoning which means that they can find it difficult to deal with people from the right who have these rigidities in their thinking.

[Harpodom]

Serious questions to those who continue to defend this govt's behaviour, despite them sacking the whistle blowers rather than the alleged abusers.

 

Has the govts behaviour been fair and reasonable?

Have they discharged their duty of care to vulnerable children appropriately?

Are you concerned that these children may be suffering from abuse and/or neglect at the hands of staff paid for by the tax payer?

Was the govt right to vilify Gillian Triggs?

Do you still believe STC staff were 'coaching' asylum seekers to self harm?

 

Or do you not actually give a fukk either way?

[MARYROSE02]

How many journalists and how many opposition leaders has Tony Abbott had killed? Has he changed the constitution so he can be never be ousted? Has he. Invaded any neighbouring countries or sponsored terrorist attacks there?

[MARYROSE02]

Definitely with Trigg. If she was fair dinkum she would have both launched her investigation during the six years of Labor govt and published it then w when the camps were full to overflowing.

 

And why do you care nothing for the hundreds who drowned? If there is to be an investigation then that should be priority no 1.

[MARYROSE02]

If right wing is so bad why do so many people still want to come here? Why aren't left wing govt run countries the fave destinations (of course they may be when a leftie govt lifts all the checks and controls of course.)

[Guest]

I do always wonder about why people adopt such right wing views which seem to be absolutely unshakable and they are adamant that they are right even in the face of scientific proof to the contrary of their views.

I find it fascinating and scary that the future could well be determined by ideologues with zero ability to empathise or imagine what the future may look like or whose motivation is purely personal.

I personally believe that the issue for the left is that they know that there is no perfect answer to complex problems and they are reluctant to pursue a single line of reasoning which means that they can find it difficult to deal with people from the right who have these rigidities in their thinking.

 

Harpo and I have long discussed this very point. We come back each time to Orwell's quote of "if you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face, forever" (from 'Nineteen Eighty-Four'). That's what comes to mind when I see footage of Scott Morrison talking about asylum-seekers arriving by boat, a cold, implacable anger, with an infinite capacity for cruelty born out of the belief that the perpetrators of that cruelty are just, and it's victims deserving of it. That said, I'm one of a small minority who sees it that way, many on these forums cling fixedly to the notion that a government they support can do no wrong. I'm guessing here, but I wonder if to entertain the notion that the people you voted for are morally wrong feels like a personal admission of failure, a reflection of you as a supporter/ voter?. I don't think it is, but perhaps even to consider that for a moment leads some people down uncomfortable paths of thought that they'd rather not go down, so instead they fixidly cling to what they perceive to be certainties - the PM is a good man, our government wouldn't lie to us, we do the best by everyone in this country, prejudice and bigotry don't happen and if they do, well, it's worse elsewhere etc.

[Guest]

Serious questions to those who continue to defend this govt's behaviour, despite them sacking the whistle blowers rather than the alleged abusers.

 

Has the govts behaviour been fair and reasonable?

Have they discharged their duty of care to vulnerable children appropriately?

Are you concerned that these children may be suffering from abuse and/or neglect at the hands of staff paid for by the tax payer?

Was the govt right to vilify Gillian Triggs?

Do you still believe STC staff were 'coaching' asylum seekers to self harm?

 

Or do you not actually give a fukk either way?

That's rhetorical surely?!

[BacktoDemocracy]

If right wing is so bad why do so many people still want to come here? Why aren't left wing govt run countries the fave destinations (of course they may be when a leftie govt lifts all the checks and controls of course.)

 

Actually not many left wing people stay in oz once they realise how universally right wing it is unless the alternative is economically or professionally unacceptable , it is a process of self selection for many people coming to oz, they left the uk in their droves because they were didn't like the equality laws in the uk and were anti European, even the oz Labor party does not really understand socialism or equality properly, it merely exists to get more money for the workers as defined by the Labor party.

[MARYROSE02]

Actually not many left wing people stay in oz once they realise how universally right wing it is unless the alternative is economically or professionally unacceptable , it is a process of self selection for many people coming to oz, they left the uk in their droves because they were didn't like the equality laws in the uk and were anti European, even the oz Labor party does not really understand socialism or equality properly, it merely exists to get more money for the workers as defined by the Labor party.

 

So the lefties have left the UK and Australia, which is a bonus for both countries, but to which 'socialist Utopia' have they gone to, and how have things improved for them and their new country?

[BacktoDemocracy]

So the lefties have left the UK and Australia, which is a bonus for both countries, but to which 'socialist Utopia' have they gone to, and how have things improved for them and their new country?

 

All of this obsessiveness about 'lefties' is very unhealthy you know, it does seem like there is something about people with a liberal view point that you find fascinating and irritating, is it around that we refuse to accept the narrow and limited range of options that your world view wants to press us all into.

Unfortunately I prefer to believe in the worth of the world rather than to fear the options the world presents to us and value the gifts and options that are presented by it rather than limiting them. by it

[flag of convenience]

If right wing is so bad why do so many people still want to come here? Why aren't left wing govt run countries the fave destinations (of course they may be when a leftie govt lifts all the checks and controls of course.)

 

They are. Sweden has the highest number of refugees per capital in Europe. Australia meanwhile conducts a massive immigration program along with Canada to entice people. Both countries are good at selling themselves and until recently both were experiencing booms.

[flag of convenience]

All of this obsessiveness about 'lefties' is very unhealthy you know, it does seem like there is something about people with a liberal view point that you find fascinating and irritating, is it around that we refuse to accept the narrow and limited range of options that your world view wants to press us all into.

Unfortunately I prefer to believe in the worth of the world rather than to fear the options the world presents to us and value the gifts and options that are presented by it rather than limiting them. by it

 

Well noted. Especially for someone hoping to expand their mind with the particular study they have undertaken. Rather mind boggling responses to politics and a little like Abbott, repeats the same message, even after long discredited. Doesn't sound a Liberal response to me not views expressed. Rather far more to the right and unmovable ....

[flag of convenience]

So the lefties have left the UK and Australia, which is a bonus for both countries, but to which 'socialist Utopia' have they gone to, and how have things improved for them and their new country?

 

More the loss for Australia if progressives are leaving in droves. Hardly unique though. Those of the literary or somehow other wise engaged in one of the arts have long been fleeing Australia. Many to the socialist Utopia as you derogatory call it England.

 

One could be forgiven reading such posts, that the cringe worthy, ultra conservative, ways thought banished into the past, of sameness and dullness has returned with vengeance.

[flag of convenience]

Definitely with Trigg. If she was fair dinkum she would have both launched her investigation during the six years of Labor govt and published it then w when the camps were full to overflowing.

 

And why do you care nothing for the hundreds who drowned? If there is to be an investigation then that should be priority no 1.

 

All already been answered. People are still drowning in their quest for liberty. The risks taken expose the need to flee the risks being endured. It wasn't six years as the former government upped intake numbers to include on shore arrivals. The panic set in later and yes off shore detention in foreign lands should have been exposed and condemned.

 

Not to worry you can ease your sense of outrage by marching this Palm Sunday in your city under the banner of Free the Refugees. I will certainly be at the Perth one as will most people I know.

[flag of convenience]

I honestly think I have heard it all now.

 

Glad to have you aboard.

[MARYROSE02]

Since when did "leftie" equal "liberal?" Were the students who disrupted Q & A last year acting "liberally?" is attacking free speech "liberal?"

[MARYROSE02]

"Marx in March" "Angst in April?" No thanks.

[MARYROSE02]

I'm glad you warned me about those March Marches so I can avoid the location. I've noticed how the leftie right to freedom of assembly and protest always overrides everybody else's similar freedom to walk or drive around even if the marches turn violent as they do often do. I guess their principle is that "good" ends justify. "Evil" means?