Is the 'Pacific Solution' unravelling?

[Xenon4017]

Exactly, and many of our young people would be happy taking those low paid jobs at Mcdonalds.

 

I'm not sure that's true, to be honest. Although I'm pretty sure that most economic migrants would. And they'd probably make good workers. Honest, competent, reliable. And if you've got a restaurant to run then why not give them a go. The only problem is that it encourages more people to chance their arm, literally. And each one that enters the asylum system puts more strain on that system. Giving asylum is a form of charity. If the donors' generosity is exploited then they are far less likely to donate.

[Xenon4017]

It's not that I don't think this lot won't return. It's more that I am far from certain Abbott will be at the helm. I do agree Australia is badly served in the political arena by its politicians. I have stated so with some repetition. Afraid the country gets what it deserves and when they wake up it'll be a little late in the day to retract. Such a shame.

 

Which country is better served? I mean, have you got somewhere in mind that's hit the magic formula?

[flag of convenience]

I thought asylum seeking was supposed to be about fleeing persecution? What you've just described is economic migration. To claim asylum is a human right. But to migrate for the purposes of economic betterment isn't. Especially if they try to subvert and deceive a system set up to help those less fortunate than themselves.

 

Not dissimilar to be on bridging visa's without the right to work and attempting to survive on a meagre handout. Hardly economic betterment nor the correct treatment of those judged to be entitled to be out in society. But as mentioned both parties are equally to blame and playing to the lowest common denominator.

[Wellers and Whitehead]

Exactly, and many of our young people would be happy taking those low paid jobs at Mcdonalds.

 

You don't have to worry about asylum seekers taking jobs in McDonald's..many don't have the right to work in Australia. Most want to but don't have that luxury..if you thought about it, if the gov allowed asylum seekers to work and didn't have to give them money, this would save the gov heaps..but oh no..best to keep them vulnerable, dependant on the government!

Edited September 4, 2014 by Wellers and Whitehead

[Parley]

You don't have to worry about asylum seekers taking jobs in McDonald's..many don't have the right to work in Australia. Most want to but don't have that luxury..

 

Okay that is a relief.

Thank you.

 

Our youth unemployment rate is 14% as it is.

[Harpodom]

I thought asylum seeking was supposed to be about fleeing persecution? What you've just described is economic migration. To claim asylum is a human right. But to migrate for the purposes of economic betterment isn't. Especially if they try to subvert and deceive a system set up to help those less fortunate than themselves.

 

I really despair when I read $hit like this.

 

I don't know if you'll ever be convinced (actually I KNOW you'll never be convinced) by this, but historically 90% of boat arrivals are found to be genuine refugees (Yeah yeah yeah I hear you say, thanks to those despicable 'boat chaser' pro bono human rights lawyers), thanks to a proper process which examines every asylum claim on its merits, YES with a right to appeal.

 

Fair enough, maybe 10% or so AREN'T genuine refugees, they can be sent home.

 

The other day I met this man, who was at the heart of this SBS program. He is an accomplished photographer, who worked for the US embassy. A Hazara, one of the most persecuted ethnic groups in the world, he was one of the lucky ones, he got in through the UNHCR refugee program, but previously he'd tried to get here by boat and his boat sank. So by your definition an economic migrant. Applying your 'rationale', he'd be languishing in Manus right now, presumably forever, unless/until he gave up and decided to return to Afghanistan.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Harpodom

[Wellers and Whitehead]

Okay that is a relief.

Thank you.

 

Our youth unemployment rate is 14% as it is.

 

 

You do make me laugh...

[flag of convenience]

At least Foot was an intellectual heavyweight, a prominent member of the great post-war Labour Government who, y'know, actually did stuff for the good of the country. Quite unlike the faceless mediocrities involved in modern politics, who are just looking for a nice little directorship somewhere in the City.

 

Britain became a far uglier country after the ridicule and demise of such politicians. Tony Benn was another I liked to listen to. There were a few around at the time. How worse off we are for having the likes of modern political identities? So little substance and as you say using it to enable connections and high paid positions after politics.

[Xenon4017]

You don't have to worry about asylum seekers taking jobs in McDonald's..many don't have the right to work in Australia. Most want to but don't have that luxury..

 

The right to work and getting a job don't always go hand in hand. That's why migrants are exploited the world over. Some would argue that the relationship is symbiotic.

 

I don't think the government wants to keep them vulnerable. (They'd rather not keep them at all). But working in the black economy means they don't pay income tax. However, most of all, govt wants to keep tabs on migration in general. There are already well-regulated streams for economic migration. They just want to ensure that asylum abuse isn't encouraged, partly for the economic drain, and partly because they don't want to have to beachcomb Christmas Island for the remnants of failed attempts.

[flag of convenience]

Okay that is a relief.

Thank you.

 

Our youth unemployment rate is 14% as it is.

 

Any particular reason you can think why that may be the case? A clue nothing to do with asylum seekers but plenty to do with inept government of either colour.

[Parley]

Are you asking me why youth unemployment is 14% ?

[flag of convenience]

The right to work and getting a job don't always go hand in hand. That's why migrants are exploited the world over. Some would argue that the relationship is symbiotic.

 

I don't think the government wants to keep them vulnerable. (They'd rather not keep them at all). But working in the black economy means they don't pay income tax. However, most of all, govt wants to keep tabs on migration in general. There are already well-regulated streams for economic migration. They just want to ensure that asylum abuse isn't encouraged, partly for the economic drain, and partly because they don't want to have to beachcomb Christmas Island for the remnants of failed attempts.

 

Nothing what so ever to do with why those on bridging visas are not allowed to work. They barely have a handout enough to survive on. Almost forced into illegal activity of some sort. Just being caught without the correct fare on public transport can result in a return to detention.

[Xenon4017]

Fair enough, maybe 10% or so AREN'T genuine refugees, they can be sent home.

.

 

You might find the figure is a bit higher, but whatever.

 

Try to concentrate on the following question:

 

What made this 10% enter into the asylum system and make a fraudulent claim? What motivated them? Are they guilty of abusing the system and making life more difficult for genuine cases? Have they displaced a genuine asylum seeker from the system who has since perished? Is simply "sending them home" just?

[Parley]

Do they get the dole same as any other Australian out of work ?

[flag of convenience]

Do they get the dole same as any other Australian out of work ?

 

No they don't get the dole. The dole is paid to those available and in search of employment. Those on bridging visas get an allowance which is far less.

[Parley]

How much flag ? I believe it is the same.

Refugees who get a protection visa get newstart allowance.

 

Those being assessed get 89% of amount of newstart. So a bit less.

Edited September 4, 2014 by parleycross

[MARYROSE02]

No they don't get the dole. The dole is paid to those available and in search of employment. Those on bridging visas get an allowance which is far less.

 

I don't get the dole when I'm 'available and in search of employment' because I have assets. I'm not even entitled to any help with getting a new job/retraining.

[Wellers and Whitehead]

I don't get the dole when I'm 'available and in search of employment' because I have assets. I'm not even entitled to any help with getting a new job/retraining.

 

and why should you get the sole if you have assets. . The dole is for if you are on your arse and have no money.

[MARYROSE02]

and why should you get the sole if you have assets. . The dole is for if you are on your arse and have no money.

 

That is fair enough in one sense, but isn't this a 'punishment' for saving, rather than spending all your money?

 

Would it be ethical for me to spend all my assets, then rely on the State for help?

[Rallyman]

But as a tax payer who pays into the system you should be entitled to receiving some help especially

With training if that is going to get you back into the work place

[MARYROSE02]

But as a tax payer who pays into the system you should be entitled to receiving some help especially

With training if that is going to get you back into the work place

 

Yes, I thought that, even if I was not entitled to any 'dole', I could at least register as unemployed, and get access to training courses?

 

I'm not 'anti Welfare State' and no way do I want us to be like the USA, but I don't like 'bludgers!'

[flag of convenience]

How much flag ? I believe it is the same.

Refugees who get a protection visa get newstart allowance.

 

Those being assessed get 89% of amount of newstart. So a bit less.

 

You answered your own question. 80% or thereabouts of the barely liveable dole for those on bridging visas. We are not referring to refugees but those in limbo relying on agencies of charity to get by.

[Parley]

I said 89%.

Presumably a bit less than others because they don't have the expense of looking for work.

[flag of convenience]

I don't get the dole when I'm 'available and in search of employment' because I have assets. I'm not even entitled to any help with getting a new job/retraining.

 

As you keep informing us. Neither do I. You as I have assets. Would you rather be without? I won't even get a pension as things stand. In UK it wouldn't have been an issue. Even to get a pension requirements are in place with regards to being resident in Australia.

 

Nothing remotely connected to the issue at hand.

[flag of convenience]

I said 89%.

Presumably a bit less than others because they don't have the expense of looking for work.

 

Well more akin to getting away with paying the least possible in order people are not starving.