Australia Wages at a Record Low

[Paul1Perth]

To be honest, I don't think it is immigration per se that is the problem. It is the lack of jobs and rising unemployment. I think that at least partly stems from Australia developing a relationship that has been over reliant on china. Now that china is sneezing, it is going to be difficult for the economy not to get a pretty nasty cold. The hard part will be if it catches pneumonia.

 

The data isn't encouraging. For anyone that missed it, the data out yesterday was pretty shocking

http://www.mining.com/iron-ore-price-drops-near-2-month-low-after-china-data-shock-44912/

 

If this turns into a serious slow down then Oz is in brown stuff up to the neck. To be honest, I am pessimistic on china. There have been a huge amount of companies that had contracted manufacturing to china, bring it back to the home countries due to quality issues and in some areas lack of competitiveness - making things there has become increasing expensive. At the same time, china has built it's entire system on debt.

 

It's not as bad as I expected when I checked the link out VS. "retreated slightly to trade at $93.20 a tonne, the lowest since June 20." Isn't exactly a shock and the miners are still making a profit at that price. It's been down there before and bounced back, might do the same again, might not.

 

I guess Aus has had it lucky over the last few years that we have had the ore and other resources in the ground and been able to trade with China. The rest of the world has struggled and Aus has been in a position where it's been taking a lot of the better qualified people to fill in a gap in the numbers needed to do the work. Now that work is slowing down it was obvious to most people that at some point there would be a rise in unemployment and a drop in wages.

 

I think a lot of it is due to the guys who have been working in construction on FIFO, on good money, having to come back to the Cities and find jobs that aren't paying so well.

 

I guess it's going to be the same here as anywhere if there's a recession. If you're lucky enough to be in work then things get cheaper and it's great if you can hang on to a job. I've been through a few now in my lifetime and we always come out the other side.

[flag of convenience]

Excessive immigration within a falling economy impacts on all but the very rich who will prosper regardless. I cannot see how it can be argued the fact that there is less of the pie to go around. The result if pushed to the max will be the argument of freeing the work place by doing away with minimum wages (or lowering) and the end of rises and possible economic stagnation with too few willing to part with big bucks for over priced housing and immigrants less willing to come out unless from pretty poor conditions.

 

The 20% under 24 year old unemployment is a national disgrace.

[newjez]

This is just my observation of what I am seeing:

Increasing amounts of ads on tv for pay day loans and debt services

Our library is considering limitations on computers due to the high number of unemployed requesting access

Less and less jobs on line and in the press

Jobs that are out there are paying less and less - in some cases I am seeing real cuts in pay

 

It is very much feeling like dejavou of UK 2008.

 

Before or after the property price falls?

[newjez]

Everyone as seen it coming mate, just that some don't keep banging on about it, what can you do other than moan about it?

Maybe you should have jumped ship when you first realised the boat was going down, happens all over the world and not everywhere as a mining boom to rely on, britians just clawed out of one America keeps falling back into one, the world is unbalanced and on the edge of war, what do you expect?

 

Well, actually you can action to shelter yourself and take advantage. Have you done this?

[newjez]

It's not as bad as I expected when I checked the link out VS. "retreated slightly to trade at $93.20 a tonne, the lowest since June 20." Isn't exactly a shock and the miners are still making a profit at that price. It's been down there before and bounced back, might do the same again, might not.

 

I guess Aus has had it lucky over the last few years that we have had the ore and other resources in the ground and been able to trade with China. The rest of the world has struggled and Aus has been in a position where it's been taking a lot of the better qualified people to fill in a gap in the numbers needed to do the work. Now that work is slowing down it was obvious to most people that at some point there would be a rise in unemployment and a drop in wages.

 

I think a lot of it is due to the guys who have been working in construction on FIFO, on good money, having to come back to the Cities and find jobs that aren't paying so well.

 

I guess it's going to be the same here as anywhere if there's a recession. If you're lucky enough to be in work then things get cheaper and it's great if you can hang on to a job. I've been through a few now in my lifetime and we always come out the other side.

 

I don't remember it staying down for so long last time. This is looking like the new normal.

 

I guess the question is for Perth, why would you go to Perth rather than Adelaide or Brisbane? Property is much cheaper in the other too. They are closer to the big cities. There are many advantages on the east coast. The only answer is jobs and high wages. How long will that last?

[Echidna66]

The guy working as a porter would hopefully be paying tax and maybe living here with his family? A hospital porter would be on a decent wage compared to the guys I am talking about, he's in a proper job. I would call him your average Aussie, no matter where he's from.

 

If you're looking for people working cash in hand they won't be working as hospital porters, or anywhere they have to have a tax file number.

 

Or they could be from India or singapore working in Australia on short term contracts (457) and getting paid outside of Australia and paying no tax in australia or their home countries..It happens believe me..they wouldnt even know what a tax file number is..

[flag of convenience]

Or they could be from India or singapore working in Australia on short term contracts (457) and getting paid outside of Australia and paying no tax in australia or their home countries..It happens believe me..they wouldnt even know what a tax file number is..

 

Or Pommy or Aussie tradies doing cash in hand. Hardly another race matter, but a business abuse strategy. Big Aussie pastime minimising or avoiding tax. You are going to feel growing discomfort, if you decide to stay in OZ and see everything being a race issue.

[jonnyraceway]

To be honest, I don't think it is immigration per se that is the problem. It is the lack of jobs and rising unemployment. I think that at least partly stems from Australia developing a relationship that has been over reliant on china. Now that china is sneezing, it is going to be difficult for the economy not to get a pretty nasty cold. The hard part will be if it catches pneumonia.

 

The data isn't encouraging. For anyone that missed it, the data out yesterday was pretty shocking

http://www.mining.com/iron-ore-price-drops-near-2-month-low-after-china-data-shock-44912/

 

If this turns into a serious slow down then Oz is in brown stuff up to the neck. To be honest, I am pessimistic on china. There have been a huge amount of companies that had contracted manufacturing to china, bring it back to the home countries due to quality issues and in some areas lack of competitiveness - making things there has become increasing expensive. At the same time, china has built it's entire system on debt.

 

 

This is not shocking to anyone working in the iron ore industry though. As long as the price doesn't drop below $80 per tonne over the next couple of years, then the larger companies will see that as something of a small win. It will, however, hurt the minor players in the Sector with their much smaller profit margins...

[VERYSTORMY]

It isn't the current iron ore price that I was alluding to with the link. It is the data out of china - new home sales down 17%. The actual iron ore price is not a great indicator as most iron ore shipped isn't being used for anything other than collateral for debt. The issue is the Chinese economy is showing massive weakness. In an Oz economy that is very reliant on a single trading partner. Life may get very interesting.

 

It's not as bad as I expected when I checked the link out VS. "retreated slightly to trade at $93.20 a tonne, the lowest since June 20." Isn't exactly a shock and the miners are still making a profit at that price. It's been down there before and bounced back, might do the same again, might not.

 

I guess Aus has had it lucky over the last few years that we have had the ore and other resources in the ground and been able to trade with China. The rest of the world has struggled and Aus has been in a position where it's been taking a lot of the better qualified people to fill in a gap in the numbers needed to do the work. Now that work is slowing down it was obvious to most people that at some point there would be a rise in unemployment and a drop in wages.

 

I think a lot of it is due to the guys who have been working in construction on FIFO, on good money, having to come back to the Cities and find jobs that aren't paying so well.

 

I guess it's going to be the same here as anywhere if there's a recession. If you're lucky enough to be in work then things get cheaper and it's great if you can hang on to a job. I've been through a few now in my lifetime and we always come out the other side.

[newjez]

It isn't the current iron ore price that I was alluding to with the link. It is the data out of china - new home sales down 17%. The actual iron ore price is not a great indicator as most iron ore shipped isn't being used for anything other than collateral for debt. The issue is the Chinese economy is showing massive weakness. In an Oz economy that is very reliant on a single trading partner. Life may get very interesting.

 

There's lots of mixed messages coming from China. It will be very interesting watching it all unfold. Personally, I'm waiting with baited breath for the US to raise interest rates. Could be a damp squib. Or could be very interesting times.

[Bobj]

[h=1]Australia Wages at a Record Low[/h]

 

Wages were £11 when I came to Australia...:tongue:

 

Cheers, Bobj.

[newjez]

Australia Wages at a Record Low

 

 

 

Wages were £11 when I came to Australia...:tongue:

 

Cheers, Bobj.

 

How much were houses?

[flag of convenience]

Australia Wages at a Record Low

 

 

 

Wages were £11 when I came to Australia...:tongue:

 

Cheers, Bobj.

 

And the price of a house?

[flag of convenience]

And the price of a house?

 

Sorry already asked. Still compare with then and what one would pay today on say a $50,000 deposit and $500,000 loan, giving consideration that the average rate of interest is 7%.

[calNgary]

Australia Wages at a Record Low

 

 

 

Wages were £11 when I came to Australia...:tongue:

 

Cheers, Bobj.

 

My 15 yr old son has 3 part time jobs, 2 pay him $11 pr hour, one (the school based apprenticeship) pays just under $10, quite good rates for a kid i think.

 

Cal x

[Bobj]

Sorry already asked. Still compare with then and what one would pay today on say a $50,000 deposit and $500,000 loan, giving consideration that the average rate of interest is 7%.

 

Never bothered re prices, but 1/4 acre blocks just north of Mandurah were £200-£300 (1964)

 

Cheers, Bobj.

[Paul1Perth]

Or they could be from India or singapore working in Australia on short term contracts (457) and getting paid outside of Australia and paying no tax in australia or their home countries..It happens believe me..they wouldnt even know what a tax file number is..

 

Hopefully they wouldn't be working as a porter in a hospital. I would hope (maybe wrongly) that any hospital would be doing things the right way. I could see it happening in the oil and gas and shipping industry, where they have people working offshore and in camps. One of the young sparkies I know worked on a site up North that is a joint venture with a Chinese company, he tells us that there are a lot of Chinese working on that site and staying on the camp that can hardly speak English, the Aussie guys working there can't get out of them how they are allowed to work there and what visas they might be on. I wouldn't trust any Chinese company to "do the right thing".

[Paul1Perth]

Or Pommy or Aussie tradies doing cash in hand. Hardly another race matter, but a business abuse strategy. Big Aussie pastime minimising or avoiding tax. You are going to feel growing discomfort, if you decide to stay in OZ and see everything being a race issue.

 

Don't just make out that it's only in Aus that minimising or avoiding tax only happens, or is any worse here than anywhere else in the world. From experience the worse the economy, the more people out of work, the lower the wages, the easier it is to get tradies to do cashies, a lot of them also claiming benefits to make ends meet.

 

If wages are good, a lot of time that only happens when there is low employment and the unions are fairly strong, then there is not so much a need to work for cashies and get benefits to make ends meet. You can have a decent job, on a decent salary and pay tax, just like everyone else. tbh I bet there aren't many tradies out there who haven't done a cashie or two in their working life.

 

My son was knocking them back as most of the time he used to get asked was weekends and he wanted them to himself to have a good time. He was working in town at the time, on a union site, so on decent money and rostered days off every fortnight.

[Xenon4017]

tbh I bet there aren't many tradies out there who haven't done a cashie or two in their working life.

 

Absolutely, it starts out doing a favour for a mate in exchange for a carton. Then your mates neighbour needs a hand etc. It goes on for sure, and always has.

 

BUT!!! I was talking to a friend who is building a house right now, and the guy he got to do some trench work (who was about 25 years old) insisted on getting paid in cash without an invoice, in spite of quoting the work on paper. When asked why, he replied that he didn't want to pay tax and that he did all his work like this. My friend had to inform him that insisting on cash, and admitting the reason why, is a bit dangerous if you don't know what your clients do for a living. The young guy still didn't cotton on. Even when the pointed question was asked "What if I told you my wife worked for the ATO?". Still not a glimmer of recognition that not declaring income is fraud.

 

I'm convinced that some tradies have a 100% belief that they are simply not destined to pay tax.

[Paul1Perth]

Absolutely, it starts out doing a favour for a mate in exchange for a carton. Then your mates neighbour needs a hand etc. It goes on for sure, and always has.

 

BUT!!! I was talking to a friend who is building a house right now, and the guy he got to do some trench work (who was about 25 years old) insisted on getting paid in cash without an invoice, in spite of quoting the work on paper. When asked why, he replied that he didn't want to pay tax and that he did all his work like this. My friend had to inform him that insisting on cash, and admitting the reason why, is a bit dangerous if you don't know what your clients do for a living. The young guy still didn't cotton on. Even when the pointed question was asked "What if I told you my wife worked for the ATO?". Still not a glimmer of recognition that not declaring income is fraud.

 

I'm convinced that some tradies have a 100% belief that they are simply not destined to pay tax.

 

Would the guy doing the trench work even be classed as a tradie? Doubt it, he's probably only qualified to dig trenches. If he was getting a decent rate of pay I don't know why he would be asking for cash in hand, that's just taking things a step too far.

[Xenon4017]

Would the guy doing the trench work even be classed as a tradie? Doubt it, he's probably only qualified to dig trenches. If he was getting a decent rate of pay I don't know why he would be asking for cash in hand, that's just taking things a step too far.

 

Well, I'm pretty sure you'd need some kind of ticket for it. And I bet there's a Tafe course too. And indeed, he does specialize in trenches it seems. When he finally comes across a real ATO employee I'm sure he will dig himself a hole twice.

 

But your assertion that he only resorts to cash in hand to compensate for poor pay is flawed. The only thing that drives most tradies to not do it is fear of getting caught, not some kind of moral repugnation at depriving the state of the resources needed to provide essential services to us all. I got quotes for a painting job for our house. Of 4 quotes, 3 offered discounts for cash. And these were reputable "25 years in the industry" outfits, not recent startups with a step ladder. One outfit was a father and son company, the (presumably semi-retired) father called round to quote and said that he doesn't really need the work, he just helps his son out in busy periods.

[Paul1Perth]

Well, I'm pretty sure you'd need some kind of ticket for it. And I bet there's a Tafe course too. And indeed, he does specialize in trenches it seems. When he finally comes across a real ATO employee I'm sure he will dig himself a hole twice.

 

But your assertion that he only resorts to cash in hand to compensate for poor pay is flawed. The only thing that drives most tradies to not do it is fear of getting caught, not some kind of moral repugnation at depriving the state of the resources needed to provide essential services to us all. I got quotes for a painting job for our house. Of 4 quotes, 3 offered discounts for cash. And these were reputable "25 years in the industry" outfits, not recent startups with a step ladder. One outfit was a father and son company, the (presumably semi-retired) father called round to quote and said that he doesn't really need the work, he just helps his son out in busy periods.

 

I wasn't asserting that he was only asking for cash because of low pay, he might be on good money for all I know. Just saying if he was then he shouldn't be asking for cash, but id he was cheaper by a lot than any other trench digger then I wouldn't have been surprised for him to ask for cash.

 

If 3 companies rolled up and gave you quotes with and without a discount for cash, which would you take? I would imagine 90% of us would pay the guys cash and take the cheapest.

[Xenon4017]

I wasn't asserting that he was only asking for cash because of low pay, he might be on good money for all I know. Just saying if he was then he shouldn't be asking for cash, but id he was cheaper by a lot than any other trench digger then I wouldn't have been surprised for him to ask for cash.

 

If 3 companies rolled up and gave you quotes with and without a discount for cash, which would you take? I would imagine 90% of us would pay the guys cash and take the cheapest.

 

I thought you might ask that. In the end, my decision was guided by another factor. I needed the painting done with the house empty, so it had to be done the following week, and I'd rung around on the previous Thursday. A few said they couldn't make it, so fair enough. Of the 4 that turned up to inspect and quote, I asked them specifically if they had capacity to take the job on at such short notice. 3 of them said that they had another job allotted for next week, but if I was happy with the price then they'd just cancel their current commitment. When I asked if they thought that was fair, one replied "Well this woman has been waiting 3 months already so another week won't hurt". When I asked "What if someone phones tomorrow for a rush job and offers you a good rate? Will you still be here on Monday?", I got a pretty vague reply. I went with the guy who could start the following day, although he said the first 3 days of the next week he would be somewhere else.