Australia's detention regime sets out to make asylum seekers suffer

[flag of convenience]

The government adjusts immigration visa intake regularly. I know the criteria for making the points changed monthly when we were applying in 92. Since then it's become a lot harder to get in on the points system, let alone the cost putting good people off. Anyone that gets a visa is well qualified, can generally speak English, has good work potential and is more than likely going to add value to Australia and hopefully fit in well and be prepared to accept Australian way of life, laws, religion (if they're bothered).

 

There are a few people that make it from 457's to permanent visas and I say good on them. They had a job to come to, they made the most of their opportunity and they must be still working, happy

and fitting in well. Otherwise they wouldn't be getting a permanent visa. Backpackers would have to be seriously lucky to get permanent residency from a WHV visa but if they do good luck to them too.

 

Most recent immigration release is to maintain figures at last years level. Regardless of a downturn in the economy. The onus being on a big Australia and the continuation of the population Ponzi scheme. More immigrants more demand type of thing.

I'm only surprised dog walkers are not included in the list of jobs alleged to be in short supply in order to gain entry. If the fact be known a good number of asylum seekers have far better educations than the immigrants arriving, especially in the case of Iranians. In fact the continued importation of large numbers of workers come at the price of business wanting quick and easy fixes along with a docile work force, than any great ability of those being imported. Along with a great cost to the Australian community, where 20% of those under 24 are unemployed, and business lacks the will and interest to train.

[flag of convenience]

It would be nice to find a few English people working there for a start.

 

I thought the thinking went Poms are too lazy to put in a days work? I'm sure I read something akin to that in one of the trusted tabloids, voice of the nation rags. I think you will find little, provincial Perth Airport not far behind either in employment preferences.

[Paul1Perth]

Most recent immigration release is to maintain figures at last years level. Regardless of a downturn in the economy. The onus being on a big Australia and the continuation of the population Ponzi scheme. More immigrants more demand type of thing.

I'm only surprised dog walkers are not included in the list of jobs alleged to be in short supply in order to gain entry. If the fact be known a good number of asylum seekers have far better educations than the immigrants arriving, especially in the case of Iranians. In fact the continued importation of large numbers of workers come at the price of business wanting quick and easy fixes along with a docile work force, than any great ability of those being imported. Along with a great cost to the Australian community, where 20% of those under 24 are unemployed, and business lacks the will and interest to train.

 

Where do you get the information to come to those conclusions? Most of the immigrants have ditched any form of paperwork that would let people find anything about them. Would be a surprise if many could speak decent English for a start, which would help in their employment.

 

Docile work force bulldust, don't know what you are talking about there, don't know one person who's lazy budging here. My sons friends, all in their 20's are a pretty hardworking bunch. Not your caricature Aussie that the rest of the World seem to think are up at dawn surfing but back in bed by 8:00 only getting up to get their unemployment money.

 

Sure a lot of them are up at 5:00am surfing but then go and do a days work after it. Also know quite a few young kids here doing apprenticeships if they don't fancy going to Uni.

 

My son who has autism has managed to get himself a job and if he can do it I reckon anyone can. He helped out in Salvo's when he didn't have work. Even that got him out the house and helped him mix with people.

[flag of convenience]

The world can see what's happening in Iraq and syria at the moment.thats a clear case , the Sri Lankan case is different having ended officially in 2009 . Did you choose to read the article ? I even put the page up where the guy stated he was an economic refugee , no mention of horror stories . Straight from the horses mouth . Still not found travel bans to Sri Lanka or the north .

Ive stated before that I'm not entirely comfortable with intercepting the boats , people should be given a chance to prove their genuine under treaty legislation. But it does raise the levels of scepticism from the public and do you or harpos argument no good when your defending people who admit to being economic migrants . Read the article , it will only take a few moments . And I'd like to see some recent reports of inhuman conditions there . I can't find any .

 

Perhaps but hardly reflects the thinking on this forum. Reality on the ground hardly being a focus with so many posters un informed posts. All too many swallow what they are fed by the recent governments spew on the subject. A highly dangerous path to go alone while conducting the present immigration policy of high numbers and ever increasing ethnic intake.

The entire policy could very easily blow up in its face, especially with falling fortunes within the economy, making it increasingly ripe for a party to take advantage of the discord and reignite the race card.

 

I doubt if many/any have spoken to any refugees let alone Tamil asylum seekers. They still have much to contend with be it in Northern Sri Lanka or India, and as already mentioned a continuing cause of concern expressed by UNHCR.

[Paul1Perth]

I thought the thinking went Poms are too lazy to put in a days work? I'm sure I read something akin to that in one of the trusted tabloids, voice of the nation rags. I think you will find little, provincial Perth Airport not far behind either in employment preferences.

 

Your thinking maybe, like you seem to be suggesting about the Aussies too.

 

I go through Perth little provincial airport as you call it very often, last time last week and there are good majority of Aussies working there. Checking you in, serving you at the lounges, hiring you cars, giving you coffee and magazines at the shops. If you've not been to the airport for a while flag it's changing by the week mate. Getting a lot bigger. Personally I liked it a lot more when it was smaller, run by the government, had free parking and a petting zoo at the international airport that gave you an experience of kangaroos and local wildlife 10 minutes after you got off the plane.

 

Last tie I went to the UK (admittedly Manchester airport) I had a non-English background guy, who's first language definitely wasn't English checking my passport to let me in, sort of looking down his nose at me. Well, maybe he wasn't really but you just get that feeling that, "hey mate this is my country".

[mickyb]

I know some very hard working Tamils. Anyway your own personal prejudices play no part in the determination of who and who isn't a refugee. Luckily for them. Hence the reason a process is in place.

Have I expressed any personal prejudices ? I'm basing an opinion on the press article . That no one seems to have the time or inclination to read in case it throws a few facts into the rant.

[flag of convenience]

Where do you get the information to come to those conclusions? Most of the immigrants have ditched any form of paperwork that would let people find anything about them. Would be a surprise if many could speak decent English for a start, which would help in their employment.

 

Docile work force bulldust, don't know what you are talking about there, don't know one person who's lazy budging here. My sons friends, all in their 20's are a pretty hardworking bunch. Not your caricature Aussie that the rest of the World seem to think are up at dawn surfing but back in bed by 8:00 only getting up to get their unemployment money.

 

Sure a lot of them are up at 5:00am surfing but then go and do a days work after it. Also know quite a few young kids here doing apprenticeships if they don't fancy going to Uni.

 

My son who has autism has managed to get himself a job and if he can do it I reckon anyone can. He helped out in Salvo's when he didn't have work. Even that got him out the house and helped him mix with people.

 

From close contact with them over the years. You would certainly be surprised if met some and discovered just how well educated they are. Would be an asset for Australia, as many have proved from within the Iranian, Iraqi, and Afghani communities that have gone on and achieved very high standards here, at times repeating a large degree of former studies.

Those that don't speak English, often within a few years, speak and write to a far higher level than a lot of UK imports, whom from reading on here often have trouble passing the English test.

 

What is wanted are docile workers. Not bullshit. Hence short term work contracts for around 25% or near of the work force, along with 457's. Fact. Acquaint yourself with reality before jumping the gun and confusing what I have written.

 

A docile workforce does not mean a slacker work force. It means what it suggests. A workforce with little rights, largely dependant on the goodwill of their firm, management and co workers. No apprenticeships are at all time lows if you care to look at the figures.

20% of under 24's are unemployed. Nothing to do with surfing in the morning. Read what is being written.

 

There are agencies that help out those with disabilities but like mentioned the present number of youth unemployed are a national disgrace. The present job agency system is of little help.

[flag of convenience]

Your thinking maybe, like you seem to be suggesting about the Aussies too.

 

I go through Perth little provincial airport as you call it very often, last time last week and there are good majority of Aussies working there. Checking you in, serving you at the lounges, hiring you cars, giving you coffee and magazines at the shops. If you've not been to the airport for a while flag it's changing by the week mate. Getting a lot bigger. Personally I liked it a lot more when it was smaller, run by the government, had free parking and a petting zoo at the international airport that gave you an experience of kangaroos and local wildlife 10 minutes after you got off the plane.

 

Last tie I went to the UK (admittedly Manchester airport) I had a non-English background guy, who's first language definitely wasn't English checking my passport to let me in, sort of looking down his nose at me. Well, maybe he wasn't really but you just get that feeling that, "hey mate this is my country".

 

At Perth airport regularly and few 'Aussies' appeared to be employed in the shops, checking in staff and cleaning staff and air port bus transfer. Never been to Manchester and neither have much desire, but Heathrow Airport reflects most the bigger International airports these days in that airports cosmopolitan make up.

 

By the way I have no complaints with Perth having a mixed crowd of employees either, in case it's suggested otherwise.

[flag of convenience]

Have I expressed any personal prejudices ? I'm basing an opinion on the press article . That no one seems to have the time or inclination to read in case it throws a few facts into the rant.

 

Well digging deeper you will find all is not quite what the Colombo and Australian governments wish to convey the situation being on the ground. A single article does little justice for either side of the debate. If you are saying some are economic refugees well of course they are. That is why a process is in place to ascertain those who are and are not. Don't forget also a combination of reasons can also be at play, to which would be idiotic to deny economic reasons not included.

[MARYROSE02]

And how would you know they were Viet Cong? And why would your stance be any different towards folk arriving by boat and breaching the White Australia Policy, though not official policy still very much a part of the mind set.

 

 

You are quite right. How could I tell them apart? The Vietcong fought first the French, then the Americans, and won their freedom and independence. Good luck to them. They don't need to flee to Australia. The South Vietnamese, on the other hand, would have a genuine fear of persecution from history's 'winners.'

 

I wonder if you would have been so welcoming to Nazi collaborators. They would have had a genuine fear of persecution too, having picked the 'wrong' side.

 

What is wrong with Australia being 'pro-White' anyway? The country was colonised (conquered if you prefer) by white people, and its institutions and history and language are still that way. Why would you want to change that? Why is it racist to want it to stay that way? Perhaps you would like to name for me a few of the countries in our region that do not follow their own versions of 'White Australia?' Of course and as usual, it is only white countries that are ever accused of racism, despite the fact that white countries are usually the most respectful of minorities, which is why they are so popular as destinations.

 

Interesting too, in the case of Vietnam to see them turning to the Americans rather than the Chinese, thus following most other countries in the region. (The only one who prefers China being North Korea!)

[flag of convenience]

You are quite right. How could I tell them apart? The Vietcong fought first the French, then the Americans, and won their freedom and independence. Good luck to them. They don't need to flee to Australia. The South Vietnamese, on the other hand, would have a genuine fear of persecution from history's 'winners.'

 

I wonder if you would have been so welcoming to Nazi collaborators. They would have had a genuine fear of persecution too, having picked the 'wrong' side.

 

What is wrong with Australia being 'pro-White' anyway? The country was colonised (conquered if you prefer) by white people, and its institutions and history and language are still that way. Why would you want to change that? Why is it racist to want it to stay that way? Perhaps you would like to name for me a few of the countries in our region that do not follow their own versions of 'White Australia?' Of course and as usual, it is only white countries that are ever accused of racism, despite the fact that white countries are usually the most respectful of minorities, which is why they are so popular as destinations.

 

Interesting too, in the case of Vietnam to see them turning to the Americans rather than the Chinese, thus following most other countries in the region. (The only one who prefers China being North Korea!)

 

Well actually if the vote had gone ahead it was pretty much assured that the Nationalists would have won and as such there would have been no Vietnam War. The Viet Cong being of course a nationalist, communist derived from the South against out side intervention on home soil. The Americans subverted the natural process and the rest is history. Yet another lesson to crass right wing intervention.

 

While I wouldn't have been welcoming to collaborators yet alone Nazi's, it is well recorded many got into Australia and other countries, due to Australia's preference to a pacific look and skin type and hard to argue racial outlook of the time.

 

You ought to get out a bit more into the region and look at the great diversity of people and cultures within the area. Not all without localised issues but where is? Japan remains one of the last remaining true homogeneous nations and questions have long been asked how long it can remain so due to one of the oldest populations and declining population.

Unlike Australia they have never been a settler nation.

 

It would be impossible for Australia, nor desirable to have maintained a white only immigration policy being in the region we are. Even South Africa was forced to relent power in the hands of a small minority to the majority, not through desire but necessity. Australia could hardly afford to insult its major trading partners by keeping out their highly skilled in many cases and continuing importing semi skilled labourers from UK.

 

Your knowledge of Asia is wanting. Laos, a favourite country of mine, is fast becoming a Chinese satellite state sadly, with them investing and populating great swathes of that nation. Cambodia not too far off. Indonesia, Malaysia all heavily involved with China in business, trade and tourism. So again your assertion that only PDRK being the only one that prefers China is way off mark.

In fact China is courted on every Continent on earth as one of the most important and influential players.

[MARYROSE02]

Most recent immigration release is to maintain figures at last years level. Regardless of a downturn in the economy. The onus being on a big Australia and the continuation of the population Ponzi scheme. More immigrants more demand type of thing.

I'm only surprised dog walkers are not included in the list of jobs alleged to be in short supply in order to gain entry. If the fact be known a good number of asylum seekers have far better educations than the immigrants arriving, especially in the case of Iranians. In fact the continued importation of large numbers of workers come at the price of business wanting quick and easy fixes along with a docile work force, than any great ability of those being imported. Along with a great cost to the Australian community, where 20% of those under 24 are unemployed, and business lacks the will and interest to train.

 

That does not make sense to me. If some Iranian asylum seekers have better qualifications than many 'proper' migrants, then why don't they apply to be 'proper' migrants too? Unless they don't want to wait, or incur the costs?

 

And where does this large number of docile workers come from, and how do they get into Australia so easily? From what I see elsewhere on PIO, there are many Brits who would love to come to Australia, but it is impossible.

 

Oh, hang on, you are pushing the union line that employers don't want the 'Bolshie' unions interfering with their slave labour factories, so they are using the 457 visa as a means of circumventing this? And there was I thinking that Australia has always looked for skilled workers depending upon which areas they have shortages.

[MARYROSE02]

Well actually if the vote had gone ahead it was pretty much assured that the Nationalists would have won and as such there would have been no Vietnam War. The Viet Cong being of course a nationalist, communist derived from the South against out side intervention on home soil. The Americans subverted the natural process and the rest is history. Yet another lesson to crass right wing intervention.

 

While I wouldn't have been welcoming to collaborators yet alone Nazi's, it is well recorded many got into Australia and other countries, due to Australia's preference to a pacific look and skin type and hard to argue racial outlook of the time.

 

You ought to get out a bit more into the region and look at the great diversity of people and cultures within the area. Not all without localised issues but where is? Japan remains one of the last remaining true homogeneous nations and questions have long been asked how long it can remain so due to one of the oldest populations and declining population.

Unlike Australia they have never been a settler nation.

 

It would be impossible for Australia, nor desirable to have maintained a white only immigration policy being in the region we are. Even South Africa was forced to relent power in the hands of a small minority to the majority, not through desire but necessity. Australia could hardly afford to insult its major trading partners by keeping out their highly skilled in many cases and continuing importing semi skilled labourers from UK.

 

Your knowledge of Asia is wanting. Laos, a favourite country of mine, is fast becoming a Chinese satellite state sadly, with them investing and populating great swathes of that nation. Cambodia not too far off. Indonesia, Malaysia all heavily involved with China in business, trade and tourism. So again your assertion that only PDRK being the only one that prefers China is way off mark.

In fact China is courted on every Continent on earth as one of the most important and influential players.

 

South Africa is a completely different case to Australia, having a white minority on a black continent. Had South Africa had as many white people as Australia, in proportion to the native population, it would still be governed by whites.

 

Since when has a country's immigration policy had any bearing on trade with its neighbours. As you point out yourself, Japan is the last true homogenous nation, yet that has never stopped Japan trading with Australia. And China is hardly a homogenous nation either, nor operating a 'catch-all' immigration polilcy, and China is a huge trader with Australia.

 

And if Australia could not operate a white only immigration policy because of the region it occupies, then that is a good argument for Britain doing exactly that, because Europe IS a largely white only region. But I bet you would be the last to argue that Britain should operate that sort of immigration policy!

 

And following your arguments, Australia's non-white migrants should be concentrated in S.E. Asia, not India, nor the Middle East..

 

I do 'get out more' and I know full well, as you should do, that most of the countries in S.E. Asia have their problems with religious/caste/tribal/national strife, except, surprise, surprise, Japan with its homogenous culture. No warring religions, no warring tribes, no warring clans.

 

And you cite the small and insignificant Asian nations siding with China. The big players - Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, all know which side their bread is buttered, and Hong Kong would dearly like to get out from the Chinese yoke. Can you imagine it? An Asian country that misses being ruled by the old colonial and white power!?

[MARYROSE02]

From close contact with them over the years. You would certainly be surprised if met some and discovered just how well educated they are. Would be an asset for Australia, as many have proved from within the Iranian, Iraqi, and Afghani communities that have gone on and achieved very high standards here, at times repeating a large degree of former studies.

Those that don't speak English, often within a few years, speak and write to a far higher level than a lot of UK imports, whom from reading on here often have trouble passing the English test.

 

What is wanted are docile workers. Not bullshit. Hence short term work contracts for around 25% or near of the work force, along with 457's. Fact. Acquaint yourself with reality before jumping the gun and confusing what I have written.

 

A docile workforce does not mean a slacker work force. It means what it suggests. A workforce with little rights, largely dependant on the goodwill of their firm, management and co workers. No apprenticeships are at all time lows if you care to look at the figures.

20% of under 24's are unemployed. Nothing to do with surfing in the morning. Read what is being written.

 

There are agencies that help out those with disabilities but like mentioned the present number of youth unemployed are a national disgrace. The present job agency system is of little help.

 

 

I guess I must be one of those 'docile workers' being on a short term, casual contract. I don't blame that situation on any particular policy of the Australian Government. To me, that is just that it goes. I have had my good times and my bad, according to the ups and downs in the economic cycle. Sometimes, I have worked in places with strong union involvement, and sometimes not. It makes no difference to me. Sometimes, I have managed to work for many years in one industry, sometimes I go from job to job.

 

It suits many companies, and governments for that matter, to offer short term contracts, as with 457 visas. So what? Is it a crime? I certainly do not want to see a return to the sort of economy Britain had in the 1960's and 1970's dominated by unions.

 

And, as usual, I ask you to look around the globe and name the utopian economies that offer the 'cradle to grave' security of employment, and wonderful conditions?

[Paul1Perth]

Just read in the guardian on-line that 1,000 African "refugees" have been intercepted in the last 3 days, trying to make it across the straits to Gibraltar. They are being held at a sport s centre because the official migration centre is overcrowded. Be interesting to see how long that can carry on and how the authorities handle it.

[Echidna66]

Never ends the stream of humanity...to western countries..Europe/UK is going to be hell on earth to live oneday..They will be bursting at the seams with humans...horrible

[ArthurPendragon]

Most recent immigration release is to maintain figures at last years level. Regardless of a downturn in the economy. The onus being on a big Australia and the continuation of the population Ponzi scheme. More immigrants more demand type of thing.

I'm only surprised dog walkers are not included in the list of jobs alleged to be in short supply in order to gain entry. If the fact be known a good number of asylum seekers have far better educations than the immigrants arriving, especially in the case of Iranians. In fact the continued importation of large numbers of workers come at the price of business wanting quick and easy fixes along with a docile work force, than any great ability of those being imported. Along with a great cost to the Australian community, where 20% of those under 24 are unemployed, and business lacks the will and interest to train.

If the average Iranian refugee is better qualified than skilled migrants, then why are they not taking the skilled migration route?

[MARYROSE02]

Just read in the guardian on-line that 1,000 African "refugees" have been intercepted in the last 3 days, trying to make it across the straits to Gibraltar. They are being held at a sport s centre because the official migration centre is overcrowded. Be interesting to see how long that can carry on and how the authorities handle it.

 

If the African countries weren't such corrupt, awful, and undemocratic regimes, perhaps the 'refugees' would not want to leave? I think I heard on the news today, the UN was 'begging' the President and ?Vice-President? of South Sudan, to put aside their civil war and start caring about their own people more. Most of these countries have the potential to be thriving economies and democracies (just to counter the standard line that 'we' (the European colonisers) ripped off all their resources. If that was true, then Australia, New Zealand and Canada should all be struggling since they became independent.)

[Harpodom]

An excellent, informative essay by famous 'boat chaser©' Robert Manne

 

[h=1]Australia’s shipwrecked refugee policy[/h]

http://www.themonthly.com.au/australia-s-shipwrecked-refugee-policy-tragedy-errors-guest-7637?utm_content=buffer44b20&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=Editorial+Teasers

[MARYROSE02]

Robert Manne! Another of those white writers who are consumed with self-hatred for their own country, pace John Pilger, Noam Chomsky. I don't even need to read it to know what he said.

[Harpodom]

Robert Manne! Another of those white writers who are consumed with self-hatred for their own country, pace John Pilger, Noam Chomsky. I don't even need to read it to know what he said.

 

I thought you were all for varied sources of information, Mary?

 

I'm sure you were lecturing @Endless Winter the other day on the importance of reading from different media outlets. Well, there ya go, knock yourself out.

 

'consumed with self-hatred for their own country'..way to go Mary, in terms of jumping to wild conclusions, that's stellar!

[jimmyay1]

Pretty happy with the way Abbott has dealt with the boat people.

The dangerous voyages have to be stopped and discouraged, people trafficking is disgusting.

People want to enter the country, they can do it the right way.

[Harpodom]

@MARYROSE02, here's more 'reading' - from despicable lefty intellectual types, presumably consumed with self-hatred for their own country - for you to ignore:

 

http://theconversation.com/here-the-word-future-is-not-a-word-life-as-a-refugee-on-nauru-30079

 

[h=1]‘Here the word future is not a word’: life as a refugee on Nauru[/h]

[MARYROSE02]

I thought you were all for varied sources of information, Mary?

 

I'm sure you were lecturing @Endless Winter the other day on the importance of reading from different media outlets. Well, there ya go, knock yourself out.

 

'consumed with self-hatred for their own country'..way to go Mary, in terms of jumping to wild conclusions, that's stellar!

 

Well, look through their output and show me how many times they write about 'how proud they are to be Australians' and then come back to me.

[MARYROSE02]

@MARYROSE02, here's more 'reading' - from despicable lefty intellectual types, presumably consumed with self-hatred for their own country - for you to ignore:

 

http://theconversation.com/here-the-word-future-is-not-a-word-life-as-a-refugee-on-nauru-30079

 

‘Here the word future is not a word’: life as a refugee on Nauru

 

 

 

I hope they publicise this article around the world to show what economic migrants posing as asylum seekers can expect if they pay people smugglers to take them to OZ. On the other hand, if conditions on Nauru are actually better than the country from which they (allegedly) fled, 'beggars can't be choosers.'