Bulk billing is dead. Not a good time to be in Australia if you are sick

[starlight7]

it can also be a side effect of anti depressants. These people have been through enough without others condemning them for obesity as well.

[Gbye grey sky]

A lot of it is not "attacking" though. Fat people use that as an excuse a lot of the time. A lot of the "attacking" is coming from health professionals who get to see the costs of people being overweight on the health system and their own health. People are old before their time and all the other ailments, like diabetes, that go along with being overweight.

 

We have a couple of friends who are really overweight with other problems because of their weight. One went to see her doctor recently about some problem with her ankles and knees. He told her she needed to lose weight and was "morbidly obese". She was devastates when he told her and was really upset when she was telling everyone on our Sunday morning get together. Because we are her friends we try and get her to do stuff and her hubby has bought her a bike she doesn't use, she's a member of more gyms and fitness clubs that she doesn't go to and even paid a lot for a personal trainer, that she quit after a couple of times because it was too hard.

 

A few of us, who do a lot of sport, have offered to get a training session for her for free but she just won't do it. No will power.

 

She changed her doctor btw as she thought he was totally out of order telling her that.

 

I feel that lack of exercise is rarely if ever the main issue as far as obesity is concerned. Whether or not I exercise regularly has never made any difference to my weight. In fact as muscle is heavier than fat, weight can increase especially as the body craves more calories to replenish those that have been burned. For the vast majority of people weight reduction can only come from eating less overall and far fewer calories (less fat and sugar). Exercise has other benefits. Many slim people are very unfit and vice versa

[Xenon4017]

Well I look at it like this aslong as my kids are happy , respectful to others , have manners , the rest they will change and they do change their food habits as you get older .

 

 

I tend to disagree; I think that food habits learnt as a child are pretty much burnt in. My own father and MIL are testament to this. They grew up during the war years and they simply cannot leave a lone sandwich on a plate.

 

.. people are not fat just because of what they eat it could be medical .

 

 

No. 100% false. You can't get fat without consuming the calories. Impossible.

 

Granted, there might be medical reasons why someone always feels hungry, or never sated. And there are lots of social reasons for people to "comfort eat". But if you don't put the food in your mouth you simply can't assimilate the nutrients. We're not able to photosynthesize. That's why when you watch news stories of areas of famine there just aren't any fat people there. Despite being under enormous pressure and stress, they just don't have the calorie intake.

 

Interestingly, you don't have to overeat by much to gain a lot of weight. The fattest person on earth could have achieved their weight simply by eating the equivalent of 1 chocolate bar too much per day.

 

The point here isn't to viilify people for what they look like. It's to try to recognize what our health needs will be in the future and try to provide a health service that can cope with that.

[Paul1Perth]

I feel that lack of exercise is rarely if ever the main issue as far as obesity is concerned. Whether or not I exercise regularly has never made any difference to my weight. In fact as muscle is heavier than fat, weight can increase especially as the body craves more calories to replenish those that have been burned. For the vast majority of people weight reduction can only come from eating less overall and far fewer calories (less fat and sugar). Exercise has other benefits. Many slim people are very unfit and vice versa

 

Honestly, if I didn't exercise just about every day I would be as fat as a bacon pig. I never worry about my diet, even now friends comment on how much I put away, I've always been a big eater and if I don't exercise I stack weight on. If I go away on a work trip and don't get the chance to go for a run, swim do something and I'm away for a couple of weeks I can easily put 5 kilos on. As soon as I get back home and get back in to an exercise routine it comes off again.

 

Depends how hard you exercise too of course. I wouldn't call exercising going for a walk every day, it's got to be something that's going to raise your heart rate and metabolism and make you sweat for 30 mins or so. Obviously swimming isn't going to make you sweat and I know people who do a fair bit of swimming who are a bit overweight. We have a friend that swims wit us that's overweight and he uses fins as he says it's "too hard to keep up without them". If he didn't use fins and swam a bit harder he would lose weight.

 

My wife was overweight, not massively so, for a few years and she had got lazy too. If I suggested going for a run or a swim or join a gym she would find and excuse and be quite irritable with me. So I gave up trying. Last year we were invited to my nieces wedding in the UK and months before she decided she wanted to look good for the wedding and I know it's a little vein, but I'm pretty sure she wanted to impress a few people back in the UK, including her own family.

 

Whatever the reason, she joined a gym and started going three times a week. They have goals to aim for at the gym she's in and do circuits with outcomes you have to test yourself against, to make sure you are improving. She also gets a weigh in and body measurements. It worked wonders, she lost heaps of weight and her figure and posture and general mood improved dramatically. She looked and felt a lot sexier too, an added bonus.

 

This was without changing her diet, she had tried all sorts of diet which hadn't helped one bit and tbh made her moodier as she couldn't eat what she wanted.

 

To me it's not rocket science, if you're eating a lot of calories you have to be doing something to burn them off. If I eat a lot one day I'll try and exercise harder or longer the next.

[Paul1Perth]

I tend to disagree; I think that food habits learnt as a child are pretty much burnt in. My own father and MIL are testament to this. They grew up during the war years and they simply cannot leave a lone sandwich on a plate.

 

 

 

No. 100% false. You can't get fat without consuming the calories. Impossible.

 

Granted, there might be medical reasons why someone always feels hungry, or never sated. And there are lots of social reasons for people to "comfort eat". But if you don't put the food in your mouth you simply can't assimilate the nutrients. We're not able to photosynthesize. That's why when you watch news stories of areas of famine there just aren't any fat people there. Despite being under enormous pressure and stress, they just don't have the calorie intake.

 

Interestingly, you don't have to overeat by much to gain a lot of weight. The fattest person on earth could have achieved their weight simply by eating the equivalent of 1 chocolate bar too much per day.

 

The point here isn't to viilify people for what they look like. It's to try to recognize what our health needs will be in the future and try to provide a health service that can cope with that.

 

I think you are spot on with that Xenon. My parents were in their 20's when the war was on and we were brought up with never leave anything on the plate, you never know where your next meal is coming from. I think that's why I'm such a big eater now. I can't stand to see waste and if we go out with a bunch of friends and people leave stuff I'm the one they turn to to polish it off.

[Gbye grey sky]

Honestly, if I didn't exercise just about every day I would be as fat as a bacon pig. I never worry about my diet, even now friends comment on how much I put away, I've always been a big eater and if I don't exercise I stack weight on. If I go away on a work trip and don't get the chance to go for a run, swim do something and I'm away for a couple of weeks I can easily put 5 kilos on. As soon as I get back home and get back in to an exercise routine it comes off again.

 

Depends how hard you exercise too of course. I wouldn't call exercising going for a walk every day, it's got to be something that's going to raise your heart rate and metabolism and make you sweat for 30 mins or so. Obviously swimming isn't going to make you sweat and I know people who do a fair bit of swimming who are a bit overweight. We have a friend that swims wit us that's overweight and he uses fins as he says it's "too hard to keep up without them". If he didn't use fins and swam a bit harder he would lose weight.

 

My wife was overweight, not massively so, for a few years and she had got lazy too. If I suggested going for a run or a swim or join a gym she would find and excuse and be quite irritable with me. So I gave up trying. Last year we were invited to my nieces wedding in the UK and months before she decided she wanted to look good for the wedding and I know it's a little vein, but I'm pretty sure she wanted to impress a few people back in the UK, including her own family.

 

Whatever the reason, she joined a gym and started going three times a week. They have goals to aim for at the gym she's in and do circuits with outcomes you have to test yourself against, to make sure you are improving. She also gets a weigh in and body measurements. It worked wonders, she lost heaps of weight and her figure and posture and general mood improved dramatically. She looked and felt a lot sexier too, an added bonus.

 

This was without changing her diet, she had tried all sorts of diet which hadn't helped one bit and tbh made her moodier as she couldn't eat what she wanted.

 

To me it's not rocket science, if you're eating a lot of calories you have to be doing something to burn them off. If I eat a lot one day I'll try and exercise harder or longer the next.

 

That may work for you right now but eating too much and working out to balance this out is not a viable option for most of us. Most would benefit more by just eating less with moderate exercise.

[Xenon4017]

That may work for you right now but eating too much and working out to balance this out is not a viable option for most of us. Most would benefit more by just eating less with moderate exercise.

 

First, if he isn't fat, he isn't eating too much. If he ate less and continued to burn the cals, then he would starve because he's eating too little.

 

Also, whilst I agree that as a general rule, we should all eat a bit less and move a bit more, the jury is out whether longer duration moderate exercise is better than short duration more intensive exercise.

 

What's definitely not good for you, judging from the people around us, is high fat/sugar intake + reduced exercise. And that's becoming the norm.

@Paul1Perth, how do you feel about a Medicare levy/tax/payment to cover the extra facilities required to treat obesity in 2020? (Only half-joking)

[Paul1Perth]

That may work for you right now but eating too much and working out to balance this out is not a viable option for most of us. Most would benefit more by just eating less with moderate exercise.

 

It's worked for me for 60 years so I'll stick with it. Actually maybe 40 years as I suppose when I was young I was out all the time doing something, soccer, riding bikes, swimming, running around without thinking about it. It's only when you start work and have to have a routine that you have to organise it.

[Guest The Pom Queen]

I tend to disagree; I think that food habits learnt as a child are pretty much burnt in. My own father and MIL are testament to this. They grew up during the war years and they simply cannot leave a lone sandwich on a plate.

 

 

 

No. 100% false. You can't get fat without consuming the calories. Impossible.

 

Granted, there might be medical reasons why someone always feels hungry, or never sated. And there are lots of social reasons for people to "comfort eat". But if you don't put the food in your mouth you simply can't assimilate the nutrients. We're not able to photosynthesize. That's why when you watch news stories of areas of famine there just aren't any fat people there. Despite being under enormous pressure and stress, they just don't have the calorie intake.

 

Interestingly, you don't have to overeat by much to gain a lot of weight. The fattest person on earth could have achieved their weight simply by eating the equivalent of 1 chocolate bar too much per day.

 

The point here isn't to viilify people for what they look like. It's to try to recognize what our health needs will be in the future and try to provide a health service that can cope with that.

It is not impossible and I am living proof. However take a look here as it saves me writing it all out: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003084.htm

 

Unintentional weight gain is when you gain weight without trying to do so and you are not eating or drinking more.

 

 

Causes

Gaining weight when you are not trying to do so can have many causes.

 

 

Metabolism slows down as you age. This can cause weight gain if you eat too much, eat the wrong foods, or do not get enough exercise.

 

 

Drugs that can cause weight gain include:

 

 

Birth control pills

Corticosteroids

Some drugs used to treat bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and depression

Some drugs used to treat diabetes

Hormone changes or medical problems can also cause unintentional weight gain. This may be due to:

 

 

Cushing syndrome

Underactive thyroid, or low thyroid (Hypothyroidism)

Polycystic ovary syndrome

Menopause

Pregnancy

Bloating, or swelling due to a buildup of fluid in the tissues can cause weight gain. This may be due to menstruation, heart or kidney failure, preeclampsia, or medicines you take. A rapid weight gain may be a sign of dangerous fluid retention.

 

 

If you quit smoking, you might gain weight. Most people who quit smoking gain 4 - 10 pounds in the first 6 months after quitting. Some gain as much as 25 - 30 pounds. This weight gain is not simply due to eating more.

[Paul1Perth]

First, if he isn't fat, he isn't eating too much. If he ate less and continued to burn the cals, then he would starve because he's eating too little.

 

Also, whilst I agree that as a general rule, we should all eat a bit less and move a bit more, the jury is out whether longer duration moderate exercise is better than short duration more intensive exercise.

 

What's definitely not good for you, judging from the people around us, is high fat/sugar intake + reduced exercise. And that's becoming the norm.

@Paul1Perth, how do you feel about a Medicare levy/tax/payment to cover the extra facilities required to treat obesity in 2020? (Only half-joking)

 

I guess it would be like asking smokers to contribute a bit more, I'd be against it. I would be happy to pay a bit more medicare levy for the doctors to be free for everyone.

[Paul1Perth]

It is not impossible and I am living proof. However take a look here as it saves me writing it all out: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003084.htm

 

Unintentional weight gain is when you gain weight without trying to do so and you are not eating or drinking more.

 

 

Causes

Gaining weight when you are not trying to do so can have many causes.

 

 

Metabolism slows down as you age. This can cause weight gain if you eat too much, eat the wrong foods, or do not get enough exercise.

 

 

Drugs that can cause weight gain include:

 

 

Birth control pills

Corticosteroids

Some drugs used to treat bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and depression

Some drugs used to treat diabetes

Hormone changes or medical problems can also cause unintentional weight gain. This may be due to:

 

 

Cushing syndrome

Underactive thyroid, or low thyroid (Hypothyroidism)

Polycystic ovary syndrome

Menopause

Pregnancy

Bloating, or swelling due to a buildup of fluid in the tissues can cause weight gain. This may be due to menstruation, heart or kidney failure, preeclampsia, or medicines you take. A rapid weight gain may be a sign of dangerous fluid retention.

 

 

If you quit smoking, you might gain weight. Most people who quit smoking gain 4 - 10 pounds in the first 6 months after quitting. Some gain as much as 25 - 30 pounds. This weight gain is not simply due to eating more.

 

I think he was right TPQ. In your reply it says that

 

 

 

Metabolism slows down as you age. This can cause weight gain if you eat too much, eat the wrong foods, or do not get enough exercise.

 

That's all things you can control. You can keep your metabolism higher by exercising, you eat less and the right foods. It's down to the individual. Like Xenon says you wouldn't get one fat person no matter what ailments or syndromes they had in a famine prone area.

[Guest The Pom Queen]

I think he was right TPQ. In your reply it says that

 

 

 

 

 

That's all things you can control. You can keep your metabolism higher by exercising, you eat less and the right foods. It's down to the individual. Like Xenon says you wouldn't get one fat person no matter what ailments or syndromes they had in a famine prone area.

No he said you can't get fat without consuming calories, this is wrong

[Xenon4017]

It is not impossible and I am living proof.

Unintentional weight gain is when you gain weight without trying to do so and you are not eating or drinking more..

 

It may be unintended, but when you consume (and digest) more than you use, the body stores fat. The body cannot create fat from nothing. Like I said, there can be medical conditions that enhance digestion, or reduce your calorie burn through lethargy, but every ounce of fat entered your body through the same channel. I'm not contesting that peoples' calorie usage fluctuates wildly. What was sufficient today might be too much, or not enough tomorrow. I'm saying that when there is a mismatch between intake and usage, then you will either add fat to storage or use it up. (There are people who lose weight despite eating more than enough, and not because they exercise, but no one, repeat, no one can add fat without eating it. There are also interpersonal differences in the volatility of fat mobilisation, but it will go eventually if you don't eat enough).

[Xenon4017]

No he said you can't get fat without consuming calories, this is wrong

 

Yes, I said that.

 

I can't run my car without putting fuel in either. If I put the same amount in every week, but continually drive less kms per week, the tank gets full. If I put my foot on the floor hooning around, then the car operates less efficiently and I run out of fuel, even though I've driven the same kms.

 

I know that you're experiencing these issues first hand, so you can see for yourself what you're eating and what effect it has. And I'd remind you of the stat that shows how a little difference in intake can have a profound effect on weight, both upwards and downwards. But the maths remain the same. If we could put on weight without consuming the calories, no one would ever starve and we'd all be on the dinner table.

[Guest The Pom Queen]

It may be unintended, but when you consume (and digest) more than you use, the body stores fat. The body cannot create fat from nothing. Like I said, there can be medical conditions that enhance digestion, or reduce your calorie burn through lethargy, but every ounce of fat entered your body through the same channel. I'm not contesting that peoples' calorie usage fluctuates wildly. What was sufficient today might be too much, or not enough tomorrow. I'm saying that when there is a mismatch between intake and usage, then you will either add fat to storage or use it up. (There are people who lose weight despite eating more than enough, and not because they exercise, but no one, repeat, no one can add fat without eating it. There are also interpersonal differences in the volatility of fat mobilisation, but it will go eventually if you don't eat enough).

Well then I suppose it depends on your interpretation of fat, are you judging someone is fat by looking at them, or by what they eat?

For example look at my case, the 10% stomach I have left is paralysed, a condition called gastrosparesis this condition can cause bloating for example look at this photo

These were taken a day apart. Now I've seen people a lot more bloated than that, so much so that they look 9 months pregnant.

 

I'm currently on a 400 calorie a day and gaining weight.

Edited May 21, 2014 by The Pom Queen
Ps these photos aren't me

[Guest The Pom Queen]

Yes, I said that.

 

I can't run my car without putting fuel in either. If I put the same amount in every week, but continually drive less kms per week, the tank gets full. If I put my foot on the floor hooning around, then the car operates less efficiently and I run out of fuel, even though I've driven the same kms.

 

I know that you're experiencing these issues first hand, so you can see for yourself what you're eating and what effect it has. And I'd remind you of the stat that shows how a little difference in intake can have a profound effect on weight, both upwards and downwards. But the maths remain the same. If we could put on weight without consuming the calories, no one would ever starve and we'd all be on the dinner table.

I'm not saying you are wrong in this but I'm disagreeing that 100% of people who look fat is because they sit there eating cream cakes all day

[Que Sera Sera]

I get really annoyed with the amount of crap that the Government allows through as diet food. Pills shakes and potions all claiming to melt away fat! How are they still allowed to get away with it. The millions and millions wasted by desparate people . If governments really care about our health, how about tackling that first.

[Paul1Perth]

No he said you can't get fat without consuming calories, this is wrong

 

Xenon said this was wrong

 

.. people are not fat just because of what they eat it could be medical .

 

Not that you can't get fat without consuming calories.

[Diane]

The thought that there are genuinely people in this world (and on this forum) who think that a person's body size means they in any way should have less rights than others is making me despair... so this is my gift to you all to remind you that we need to care for each other just a little more!

 

[Xenon4017]

I'm not saying you are wrong in this but I'm disagreeing that 100% of people who look fat is because they sit there eating cream cakes all day

 

By "fat" I'm talking about the build up of subcutaneous lipids. I'm not really talking about a distention caused by fluid retention. (Although you can't get fluid retention without drinking the fluids! But there's little you can do about that because the body says "Give me water" and you have no choice; see my posts form earlier on in the thread about having a clean water supply).

 

So, yes, you could "look fat", without having the lipid layer to fit, and hence the calorie history to match. Back to the graphic images of starvation, quite often children will have distended "pot-bellied" abdomens, but the clue is their limbs are absolute sticks.

 

But fat is fat. Human fat has about 8000cals/kg. We don't assimilate all we eat, but the only way to get a kilo of fat is to consume 8000+cals in excess of your needs. And the only way to get rid of it (without the Dyson) is to burn up the same amount.

 

I have every sympathy for people who's metabolism is affected by other illnesses which causes them to gain or lose weight. But, I've got less sympathy for those who deliberately sabotage their own health to the point that they become ill. And as I wrote earlier: A trip to the docs costs about the same as a fast food meal. How ironic is that?

[Paul1Perth]

I'm not saying you are wrong in this but I'm disagreeing that 100% of people who look fat is because they sit there eating cream cakes all day

 

I don't think anyone is saying that TPQ. You don't have to be eating cream cakes all day to put weight on. Like I said if I stop exercising I put weight on. I don't sit eating cream cakes but I do admit to going to the pub every night and eating a lot when we are away on work trips. Work are paying for it and I don't like just sitting in a hotel room at night. I like to see the places we get sent to and find good restaurants and pubs.

[Guest The Pom Queen]

 

 

No. 100% false. You can't get fat without consuming the calories. Impossible.

 

.

 

Xenon said this was wrong

 

 

 

Not that you can't get fat without consuming calories.

 

Read the above quote

[Paul1Perth]

Read the above quote

 

Sorry TPQ you're right he did say that, but I still think he's right. What you show in your picture is not fat but water retention. Sorry about your condition btw, can't be nice, it's crap getting ill.

[Guest The Pom Queen]

By "fat" I'm talking about the build up of subcutaneous lipids. I'm not really talking about a distention caused by fluid retention. (Although you can't get fluid retention without drinking the fluids! But there's little you can do about that because the body says "Give me water" and you have no choice; see my posts form earlier on in the thread about having a clean water supply).

 

The thing is Xenon this is what I'm saying, people see someone with a large stomach showing under their clothes and don't think, oh they must have medical problems, water retention etc, all they say is look at that fat person and its this that I do not agree with.

Anyway we better get back to the OP otherwise I will have to infract myself for going off topic. :policeman:

[Sammy1]

On another note, good to know that there are $60,000 scholarships available for Abbot's women of 'calibre' that he spoke about....What a wonderful coincidence that the recipient is his daughter. Life is full of coincidences.

Just a shame that uni fees are going up, start up scholarships are on the way out and education help for single parents is being abolished. Ah well.

 

 

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2014/05/21/14/55/tony-abbott-s-daughter-received-questionable-scholarship