Xenon4017 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 The thing is Xenon this is what I'm saying, people see someone with a large stomach showing under their clothes and don't think, oh they must have medical problems, water retention etc, all they say is look at that fat person and its this that I do not agree with.Anyway we better get back to the OP otherwise I will have to infract myself for going off topic. :policeman: Well it is kind of on-topic. Because regardless of peoples attitudes the medical evidence is that Australians are eating more and exercising less. And I've tried to show that this has an inevitable mathematical result. (Peoples reactions to body shapes is probably best left to another thread.) If this trend continues, then the health service of the future, in whatever form it might take, will need to contend with a whole new raft of complaints. And I question if the current funding model will cut it. Maybe Bulk Billing is dead. Maybe it was never going to be sustainable in the first place. There seems to be a chasm between those like Paul1Perth (and dare I say it, ParleyCross) who are taking steps to keep themselves in good shape, and those who just let themselves go and expect Medicare to fix them, free of charge to boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 On another note, good to know that there are $60,000 scholarships available for Abbot's women of 'calibre' that he spoke about....What a wonderful coincidence that the recipient is his daughter. Life is full of coincidences. Just a shame that uni fees are going up, start up scholarships are on the way out and education help for single parents is being abolished. Ah well. http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2014/05/21/14/55/tony-abbott-s-daughter-received-questionable-scholarship "Tony Abbott's daughter Frances was awarded a $60,000 scholarship for a degree from a design school where a donor to her father sits as chairman on the board of governors." God I'm sick of hearing about this disgusting reptilian creature. Age of entitlement is over, my $$$$ing arse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaver Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Well it is kind of on-topic. Because regardless of peoples attitudes the medical evidence is that Australians are eating more and exercising less. And I've tried to show that this has an inevitable mathematical result. (Peoples reactions to body shapes is probably best left to another thread.) If this trend continues, then the health service of the future, in whatever form it might take, will need to contend with a whole new raft of complaints. And I question if the current funding model will cut it. Maybe Bulk Billing is dead. Maybe it was never going to be sustainable in the first place. There seems to be a chasm between those like Paul1Perth (and dare I say it, ParleyCross) who are taking steps to keep themselves in good shape, and those who just let themselves go and expect Medicare to fix them, free of charge to boot. If this argument was taken to extremes, then people out exercising and causing damage to themselves e.g. broken ankles, torn ligaments, would also be paying a premium of some kind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 If this argument was taken to extremes, then people out exercising and causing damage to themselves e.g. broken ankles, torn ligaments, would also be paying a premium of some kind Does Australia lead the world in broken ankles? I've not seen much evidence for that. Increased obesity is a trend that shows no sign of stopping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaver Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 There are plenty sports related injuries - even heart attacks - and if overweight people feel pressured into excessive exercise then there will be many more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sueandave Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Tina, I think you're making all that up.None of that has ever been suggested. Best to wait and see rather than guessing a whole lot of doomsday scenarios. But you can be sure they won't make surprise changes effecting people close to retirement. Like the pension age change coming in 2035 it recognises the reality of people living longer and leaves plenty of time for planning. Hi parley a question for you, what are your thoughts on entitlement to any amount of pension or CHC if you have worked all your life paid taxes and not needed any welfare payments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 There are plenty sports related injuries - even heart attacks - and if overweight people feel pressured into excessive exercise then there will be many more Good point. Better sit them down with a donut and a thick shake then. Any evidence about how many sporting injuries we've got. Something along the lines of this would be informative: http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/interactive/2013/feb/19/obesity-map-of-world-weight I know it's the Graunian, but they've done such a good job with the graphic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy1 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) I find it interesting that some posters on here have said that they take nothing from the system ( or put more into than they take out) and as an example state that they send their children to private schools. The government hugely funds private schools, not many people seem to realise this. Rightly or wrongly (and yes I have an opinion) every year millions of dollars are allocated to private schools, often to the detriment of funding to public schools. Welfare, it comes in all shapes and forms. Edited May 21, 2014 by Sammy1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaver Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Good point. Better sit them down with a donut and a thick shake then. Any evidence about how many sporting injuries we've got. Something along the lines of this would be informative: http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/interactive/2013/feb/19/obesity-map-of-world-weight I know it's the Graunian, but they've done such a good job with the graphic. http://emj.bmj.com/content/21/6/704.full http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1285207/ do you need more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaver Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I am not for a second recommending a doughnut and thick shake diet or any such equivalent, but life is not all black and white. Many people have become fat whilst growing up and cannot be blamed for the diet they consumed as a child. Is it right to ridicule them when they need re-education and support? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 The government hugely funds private schools, not many people seem to realise this. . We are definitely going off topic, but you raise an interesting point. It costs 14k per year to send a child to a state school. My local private school charge 6k to the parents, and gets another 8k from the state. So the state pays more than the parents. Absolutely true. But! there's a difference between healthcare and education. You're not obliged to be ill, but the state is obliged to provide free education and you are obliged to send your child to school. So, if there are 1 million school aged kids, the state has an initial commitment of 14,000 million dollars. Every parent who sends their child to private school relieves the state of 6k of their burden. You might argue that private schools should be just that, and that parents should pay the whole 14k. But the net result would be that less kids would go to private schools, and the state (a.k.a. the taxpayer) would have to find extra money to keep these kids in state schools. You might then argue that when all the kids go to state schools that everyone has an equal interest in ensuring that the schooling is of a high standard, but what is unavoidably true is that the taxpayer would pay more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie22 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Interesting though hearing in the news today that evidently Australian children are some of the most inactive in the world - and this is in a developed country with beautiful blue skies and sunshine most of the time - pretty sad really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy1 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 We are definitely going off topic, but you raise an interesting point. It costs 14k per year to send a child to a state school. My local private school charge 6k to the parents, and gets another 8k from the state. So the state pays more than the parents. Absolutely true. But! there's a difference between healthcare and education. You're not obliged to be ill, but the state is obliged to provide free education and you are obliged to send your child to school. So, if there are 1 million school aged kids, the state has an initial commitment of 14,000 million dollars. Every parent who sends their child to private school relieves the state of 6k of their burden. You might argue that private schools should be just that, and that parents should pay the whole 14k. But the net result would be that less kids would go to private schools, and the state (a.k.a. the taxpayer) would have to find extra money to keep these kids in state schools. You might then argue that when all the kids go to state schools that everyone has an equal interest in ensuring that the schooling is of a high standard, but what is unavoidably true is that the taxpayer would pay more. We are not going off topic at all. The budget also means a loss of 30 billion dollars to education over the next few years. The figures are stark. Even the most prestigious expensive private school receives government funding. The need for it is questionable, as is your explanation unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 http://emj.bmj.com/content/21/6/704.fullhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1285207/ do you need more? Have you read the first report? Just skimmed it myself, but here are a few choice cuts: "About 50 000 new patients attend Crosshouse Hospital A&E department a year. Sports injuries accounted for 2.7% of attendances" Hardly epidemic levels, as opposed to 70% of Australian males being overweight, a 5% increase over a decade. "Most patients (67%) received no hospital outpatient follow up, either discharged directly from the department or referred to their GP if complications arose. This may suggest that a significant proportion of injuries were of a minor nature and could be managed in the first instance at primary care level or with first aid measures at the scene." As opposed to lifelong obesity causing premature death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaver Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I am aware that it is a relatively small proportion, but my point was that the numbers of sports injuries would grow with more people taking large amounts of exercise. And I am thinking more specifically of the overweight people trying to get fit. The strain on their bones and ligaments, not to mention heart, would be quite considerable. Yes they need to diet. Yes they need to exercise more. But they need assistance not punishing with penalties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 We are not going off topic at all. The budget also means a loss of 30 billion dollars to education over the next few years. The figures are stark. Even the most prestigious expensive private school receives government funding. The need for it is questionable, as is your explanation unfortunately. Well, this is really a healthcare thread, but I don't mind, and the mods are all watching Coronation Street, so let's make the most of it. What do you find "questionable" about my explanation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sueandave Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Ok I have never done any of the above, smoke, drugs, alcohol I use to have one glass a year, no where near fumes, Aussie sun, low fat diet, hate sugar, but ended up with Cervical cancer twice and esophagal cancer and now they have found a lump in the 10% of stomach I have left, I currently live on 400 calories a day, ok I can't exercise now because I'm to weak.I have been told I have the lungs of a 80yr old in the past yet I've never in my life smoked. So according to you its all my fault and I should have been able to stop this happening? Hi Pom Queen, life is a box of chocolates, we have all heard that before, I feel for you and hope that you can slowly improve your health. My Beautiful Granddaughter is now 14 years old she has received two liver transplants, she has a few other problems also, . why I mention this is because I too was once naïve, and thought I've had 3 healthy children, my mum had a bus load of children all healthy, same as my OH side, my grandparents children seemed o'k they all lived to an old age, then why? I now know that these things happen, as specialists said this is a first omission not genetic, not what she had or had not eaten, just pot luck, what I find quite strange is that this beautiful girl of ours always wears a smile, So come on everyone SMILE, Tomorrow she endures another operation, nothing to do with the liver that is going really well, and we will be always be eternally grateful to the family of the doner . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Hi Pom Queen, life is a box of chocolates, we have all heard that before, I feel for you and hope that you can slowly improve your health.My Beautiful Granddaughter is now 14 years old she has received two liver transplants, she has a few other problems also, . why I mention this is because I too was once naïve, and thought I've had 3 healthy children, my mum had a bus load of children all healthy, same as my OH side, my grandparents children seemed o'k they all lived to an old age, then why? I now know that these things happen, as specialists said this is a first omission not genetic, not what she had or had not eaten, just pot luck, what I find quite strange is that this beautiful girl of ours always wears a smile, So come on everyone SMILE, Tomorrow she endures another operation, nothing to do with the liver that is going really well, and we will be always be eternally grateful to the family of the doner . I hope it goes well for her tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sueandave Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I hope it goes well for her tomorrow. Thank you that is why I am up looking at this forum, keeps the old mind off things, or at least it should LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellybingobingo Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Hi Pom Queen, life is a box of chocolates, we have all heard that before, I feel for you and hope that you can slowly improve your health.My Beautiful Granddaughter is now 14 years old she has received two liver transplants, she has a few other problems also, . why I mention this is because I too was once naïve, and thought I've had 3 healthy children, my mum had a bus load of children all healthy, same as my OH side, my grandparents children seemed o'k they all lived to an old age, then why? I now know that these things happen, as specialists said this is a first omission not genetic, not what she had or had not eaten, just pot luck, what I find quite strange is that this beautiful girl of ours always wears a smile, So come on everyone SMILE, Tomorrow she endures another operation, nothing to do with the liver that is going really well, and we will be always be eternally grateful to the family of the doner . Hope it it all goes well , I'll pray for her. X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sueandave Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Hope it it all goes well , I'll pray for her. X Thank you so much:smile::smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Thank you that is why I am up looking at this forum, keeps the old mind off things, or at least it should LOL Perhaps not this thread! :sad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sueandave Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Perhaps not this thread! :sad: LOL My motto look after the sick and aged tomorrow you may be one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaver Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) Hi Pom Queen, life is a box of chocolates, we have all heard that before, I feel for you and hope that you can slowly improve your health.My Beautiful Granddaughter is now 14 years old she has received two liver transplants, she has a few other problems also, . why I mention this is because I too was once naïve, and thought I've had 3 healthy children, my mum had a bus load of children all healthy, same as my OH side, my grandparents children seemed o'k they all lived to an old age, then why? I now know that these things happen, as specialists said this is a first omission not genetic, not what she had or had not eaten, just pot luck, what I find quite strange is that this beautiful girl of ours always wears a smile, So come on everyone SMILE, Tomorrow she endures another operation, nothing to do with the liver that is going really well, and we will be always be eternally grateful to the family of the doner . Best wishes. I hope all goes well I hope you feel better soon too Pom Queen Edited May 21, 2014 by weaver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sueandave Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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