Peccavi Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 You too have just made a blanket statement. At the point of invasion the Muja were only holding the Panshir Valley, they were imminently to be defeated. The West could not allow the Tali to have control, Afghanistan is geographically strategic. We know the rest. It is the nice liberal Muja who use 'pleasure boys', youngsters who are used by them in return for favours to their families. All I'm saying is that no one is a 'hero'. So very very many have died. The naivety of believing that this was all done to 'liberate' is astounding! It has been done for political gain. Yes and no....the bottom line is the details I have pointed out have been an issue for many years before the British and American troops went into Afghanistan...even during the time when the UK Gov supported the Taliban with resources whilst the Taliban were fighting against Russia. Has it made a difference? Of course not. No country has managed to tackle Afghanistan with success. The first line of my point that you highlighted, which I was making to 'Joe Strummer' who told everyone who posted their views on this thread that they are 'right wing'. Have a read for yourself. I know that region very very well. I have no intention of expanding on that. I do not need a history lesson. The Russians of course invaded. The West of course liberated. We have to change our attitude before we can change our behaviour. .........and I can read; as can you. Please note the area I highlighted of JS' post. Some of you moralising on here, should remember one thing, it is not the military sending our lads into other country's, it is the politicians that we elect. Having a religion using that blanket as justification to kill unarmed troops and innocent civilians, in a cowardly manner I might add, is wrong on so many levels. Islam, is not a peacefull religion, and you only have to look at the country's ruled by it to see this. We have our fingers in our ears, eyes shut, saying blah blah blah!, by the time some of you wake up to the threat, it will be far too late. Yes. I actually do know it was the politicians. It is not actually senior military who order invasion; it is Government/politicians... I have corrected the bit you inadvertently left out of your post. Yes I take your point about the 'threat of Islam'. This little island/s; this GB, will simply roll over and hand their homes/jobs/country to 'these people'. ................if memory serves me right, I recall that this wee place held its own for 3 full years against a massive threat until the USA administration thought it prudent to lend a hand. Please have more faith in your fellow countrymen. They have no historical record of being pushovers; rather to the contrary..... ...and they did what had to be done without hate, but with dedicated focus. I have no fear of waking to find myself homeless and defeated. I, like others will fight back if and when it is necessary. Xenophobic fear mongering has always been the excuse de jour for killing innocent people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 So Britain and the US should get out of Afghanistan and Iraq, and every other country in the world if they want to avoid terrorist attacks? The trouble is, with each country, Australia too, being such a melting pot of different races and cultures, how would any government be able to conduct any kind of foreign policy, for fear they would provoke terrorist attacks. My God, I could start a terror campaign in Australia because I did not like Australia's policies towards the UK. What is this rubbish about 'it all being about oil' too, as if western countries never get involved in countries without oil. And whenever there is a natural disaster, which governments do the most to help, regardless of the country in which the disaster occurs. And of course, if we DO lend aid, how do we know we won't provoke a terrorist attack from people who don't think we should offer aid!? Those two men who murdered Lee Rigby were not suffering directly from British policy in Iraq or Afghanistan either. Were they citizens of either country? Of course, in times of major war, countries like Britain intern all those people they suspect of being 'enemy aliens'. Perhaps we should bring that back for every war we get involved in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernbird Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Sorry Dave I don't know what libralisum means. Sorry to have upset your right wing sensibilities folks, but you lot appear to be like a flock of sheep, believing everything you read in the tabloid press. Causalities of the West’s invasion and nine-year occupation are estimated by a new academic study at around 500,000 deaths from “war related causes”. The most of these deaths innocent civilians including women and children. I am by no means condoning the death of Lee Rigby, it was an act of barbarism, but I can understand why people are drawn to extremism, when the west continues to bomb the hell out of their country. These 2 idiots had no reason to be extremist, they are as British as I am!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe strummer Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 So why are Britain and the US in Iraq if not for oil? Their weapons of mass destruction claim have now been proved bogus. Imperialism is now foreign policy is it?. Every war we get involved in?, don't you mean every war we start. None of your post makes any sense whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobj Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 It is still the murder of an innocent person no matter how deep you want to delve into politics, joe s. Cheers, Bobj. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flybyknight Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 So if all nations who are in countries they shouldn't be pulled out today the stupidity of suicide bombers and the like would stop also? I don't think so, do you? the AQ ones started in the 90's, when we kinda went into Iraq and got our murder on. killed almost 5000 civilians, and 20,000 soldiers that year, saddam still there though til round 2. when an enemy invades your country, slaughters your children, brothers, sisters... with guns, rockets, rpg's and drones and you find yourself with only a few old land mines and the odd gun you can scrounge from allies. what do you do? we're human, we're creative. we use what we have. not to offend, but we have a mass of people who live more simply. they do not question as readily as we do, deeply religious people. they are simply, easier and quicker to brainwash (they have lived, and are used to faith in the word and command). that's the mobile weapon system taken care of. looking at it with our media fed view, from our comparatively ivory tower, its hard to comprehend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peccavi Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 So Britain and the US should get out of Afghanistan and Iraq, and every other country in the world if they want to avoid terrorist attacks? The trouble is, with each country, Australia too, being such a melting pot of different races and cultures, how would any government be able to conduct any kind of foreign policy, for fear they would provoke terrorist attacks. My God, I could start a terror campaign in Australia because I did not like Australia's policies towards the UK. What is this rubbish about 'it all being about oil' too, as if western countries never get involved in countries without oil. And whenever there is a natural disaster, which governments do the most to help, regardless of the country in which the disaster occurs. And of course, if we DO lend aid, how do we know we won't provoke a terrorist attack from people who don't think we should offer aid!? Those two men who murdered Lee Rigby were not suffering directly from British policy in Iraq or Afghanistan either. Were they citizens of either country? Of course, in times of major war, countries like Britain intern all those people they suspect of being 'enemy aliens'. Perhaps we should bring that back for every war we get involved in? 1) It never fails to amaze me how views are distorted to suit the view of the person responding to them. It is deliberate of course. 2) I think you would have remarkable success frankly! 3) Love this! 'I do not agree with your view' = 'it's rubbish'!! Perish the thought that 'liberators' are anything but heroes. 4) Those two creatures did not need 'to suffer directly', nor be 'citizens of either country' to become zealots. Belief systems-religion has no borders. Each believes theirs is the one true God. And ALL, throughout history have destroyed/killed countless millions in the name of the 'Father'. These 2 idiots had no reason to be extremist, they are as British as I am!! We should have told them that. It would have made such a difference... It is still the murder of an innocent person no matter how deep you want to delve into politics, joe s. Cheers, Bobj. Innocent people. Creed or colour should not make innocent victims simply 'collateral damage'. Remember that comment: "nice". Is that gunship pilot a hero because he is an American 'liberator'? 'Nice'-after murdering innocent people. Nice. Have we become so dehumanised that such comments/actions can be defended by the 'they deserved it' rationale,-or the popular one: the footage is untrue/edited/distorted/ etc., WE are responsible for causing Islam to be the fastest growing religion in the World. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest66881 Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 the AQ ones started in the 90's, when we kinda went into Iraq and got our murder on. killed almost 5000 civilians, and 20,000 soldiers that year, saddam still there though til round 2. when an enemy invades your country, slaughters your children, brothers, sisters... with guns, rockets, rpg's and drones and you find yourself with only a few old land mines and the odd gun you can scrounge from allies. what do you do? we're human, we're creative. we use what we have. not to offend, but we have a mass of people who live more simply. they do not question as readily as we do, deeply religious people. they are simply, easier and quicker to brainwash (they have lived, and are used to faith in the word and command). that's the mobile weapon system taken care of. looking at it with our media fed view, from our comparatively ivory tower, its hard to comprehend. Always gone with liveleak for the truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 So why are Britain and the US in Iraq if not for oil? Their weapons of mass destruction claim have now been proved bogus. Imperialism is now foreign policy is it?. Every war we get involved in?, don't you mean every war we start. None of your post makes any sense whatsoever. Iraq produces about 3 per cent of the World's oil. Is that 3 per cent SO important that the US and UK needed to invade Iraq to secure its supply? [h=2]List of Top 10 Largest Oil Producers in the World 2013 [/h] [TABLE=class: tftable] [/TABLE] [TABLE=class: tftable] [TR] [TH=align: center]Rank[/TH] [TH=align: center]Country[/TH] [TH=align: center]Production (bbl/day)[/TH] [TH=align: center]Share of World’s output (Percentage)[/TH] [/TR] [TR] [TD=align: center]1.[/TD] [TD] Russia[/TD] [TD=align: center]10,730,000[/TD] [TD=align: center]12.65%[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=align: center]2.[/TD] [TD] Saudi Arabia[/TD] [TD=align: center]9,570,000[/TD] [TD=align: center]11.28%[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=align: center]3.[/TD] [TD] United States[/TD] [TD=align: center]9,023,000[/TD] [TD=align: center]10.74%[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=align: center]4.[/TD] [TD] Iran[/TD] [TD=align: center]4,231,000[/TD] [TD=align: center]4.77%[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=align: center]5.[/TD] [TD] China[/TD] [TD=align: center]4,073,000[/TD] [TD=align: center]4.56%[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=align: center]6.[/TD] [TD] Canada[/TD] [TD=align: center]3,592,000[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.90%[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=align: center]7.[/TD] [TD] Iraq[/TD] [TD=align: center]3,400,000[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.75%[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=align: center]8.[/TD] [TD] United Arab Emirates[/TD] [TD=align: center]3,087,000[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.32%[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=align: center]9.[/TD] [TD] Mexico[/TD] [TD=align: center]2,934,000[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.56%[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=align: center]10.[/TD] [TD] Kuwait[/TD] [TD=align: center]2,682,000[/TD] [TD=align: center]2.96%[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] - See more at: http://www.whichcountry.co/top-10-largest-oil-producing-countries-in-the-world/#sthash.PgEFGV3d.dpuf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossmoyne Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 I don't believe in the death penalty as some say these two should be given. However, I would like to see these two given a special sentence. The one that comes to mind is that they will serve it in Colchester. That is the military prison. I can just imagine what fun my old colleagues in the Royal Millitary Police would have with them - let alone their fellow inmates! I suspect within a week they would wish the UK did have the death penalty! I really like that idea VS... perhaps they could have pork on the menu every day too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incata Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 I really like that idea VS... perhaps they could have pork on the menu every day too! Bacon sandwiches for breakfast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest66881 Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 But not have the girl serve them who works for M and S:wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunbury61 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I get your point joe ...but when the west pulls out of Iraq and Afghanistan .....then it will be something else ...ISRAEL AND THE WEST BANK AND GAZA ....gays ...Christians ...Sikhs ...hindus ,,,,, Anyway , they don't need anyone to blame , they are doing a great job of killing each other in Syria , Lebanon , Egypt and Iraq ....and whos fault is that ? ....ONE DIRECTION ? ,,,,JUSTIN BIEBER.....MY AUNTIE MAVIS ?...... LOOK AT THE RECENT HISTORY OF IRAN ....in 1979 the shah was ousted .....the Islamic fundamentalists hadn't got enough support on their own , so they went into partnership with the communists ,,,,until the shah was ousted ...then they massacred the communists Be happy you live in a country where you have a voice And the build up to a major conflict are on the way ...sadly. The west is building up massive forces in Ukraine ...putin is telling the west to back off . Is Obama going to go out with a bang ...literally . Islamic and christian escathogy appears to be in alignment ...polar opposite outcomes... But Russia are aligning with Iran .....and the united states with Saudi Arabia ,and its all to do with ISRAEL ....always was ,always will be . ISIS are just the cannon fodder ..the mugs ...the village idiots who make the headlines ,whilst all the real alarming stuff is going on behind the scenes. In terms of Islam ,the team to watch ,who the scholars hang their hat on ,is the Taliban not Isis . Russia are seen by Islamic scholars as the kaffir ( christian ) country that will stand with the Muslims against Israel ...its starting to look that way . Russia also has a centuries old score to settle with turkey ...that isn't going away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 A breakdown in the economic order will be the prime reason for increased conflict. Historically little changes, the more things change sort of thing. Russia is economically in a bad way. Europe has lost direction in many ways, America appears in steady decline, thus dangerous. Russia may well go more towards China, whom gain in confidence by the year. The Middle East will continue to be divided and unpredictable.(Thanks in part to all sides) Saudi needs to change one way or another, as though pro western, are a major factor towards destabilisation with their corrupt in house regime forever in power. It will not be a war against non believers (kaffirs) though there are all too many on both sides ready, able and willing to fan the flames of hatred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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