EPIC FAIL! VISA going to be refused? HELP

[Picia211]

Hi all,

I believed I am always well prepare, that I check everything before make any move. Well read this through...

 

I've decided to apply for a 489 Skilled Regional Sponsored visa. Everything started long time ago when made my IELTS test, so far everything used to go just perfect. I met ALL the requirements, this same my aunt (sponsor) she is AU citizen etc. Already did my medical examination, ACRO police certificate etc. and obviously got my CO. So what went wrong? My CO just sent me an email that everything is fine just my sponsor is...not eligible as my aunt is actually my... great aunt!

 

We were always very close, I was always calling her aunt. Well actually in the country I am coming from there is no such a thing like great aunt! In this situation we still say aunt... Tell me if really this sort of cultural difference can ruin everything, all my dreams about Ozi, all effort I put on the visa process and finally lot of money? Is it really such a big thing while she is happy to sponsor me? Sorry for the drama but haven't been thinking about anything else for the last 18 months and now I am so close.

 

My aunt is very looking forward to see me in Australia as with uncle they have no one else there, no kids etc.

 

Any comments? Ideas? Heard about similar case before?

 

Picia

[Rupert]

I am afraid there is nothing to say. A great aunt is not an aunt, this is not a cultural difference this is a fact. She cannot sponsor you just because you are close. Do you have anyone else that could sponsor and would your CO allow a switch at this stage if so? But I am afraid it looks very likely that your visa will indeed be rejected.

[Quoll]

Unfortunately it is Australian culture which defines the rules and if she is your great aunt then that isnt going to meet the criteria unfortunately. It has to be a sibling of one of your parents. Perhaps you could consult a migration agent to see if there is any other visa which you may be eligible for

[Picia211]

Ozi land, Ozi culture, Ozi rules - I understand it all and agree. It is me who failed however it is not easy to say "whatever" now or even believe it is real. I am asking, still hoping there are some exception, each case is different right? Are they so strict? Rupert, I have no one else in AU who could be a sponsor damn, I have never felt like this in my whole life. Idiot...

[Quoll]

No, she's either your aunt, in which case you'll be ok or she isn't in which case you have to seek a different visa.

[Rupert]

Ozi land, Ozi culture, Ozi rules - I understand it all and agree. It is me who failed however it is not easy to say "whatever" now or even believe it is real. I am asking, still hoping there are some exception, each case is different right? Are they so strict? Rupert, I have no one else in AU who could be a sponsor damn, I have never felt like this in my whole life. Idiot...

 

There won't be an exception. To say a great aunt is same as an aunt is like saying a grandparent is same as a parent. They are completely different, this is nothing to do with culture.

 

Unfortunately your visa will be refused and you need to find another way, like state sponsorship perhaps. Or take IELTS again for maximum points if you have not already.

[wrussell]

If the OP had consulted a RMA for an assessment, this disaster would not have happened.

 

Here are the notes from our preliminary (free) assessment form:

 

NOTES ABOUT FILLING IN THE ASSESSMENT FORM

 

 

WE ARE ONLY AS GOOD AS THE INFORMATION YOU GIVE US

 

 

 

Here are some of the common mistakes people make when filling in the assessment form:

They do not write N/A if a question does not apply to them, so we cannot tell whether the question does not apply to them or they overlooked it.

Relatives in Australia must be LEGALLY relatives or step-relatives of the required degree to qualify as a sponsor. In some circumstances a cousin can sponsor, but a second cousin cannot. People filling in the form must precisely specify their legal relationship with the person who is willing to sponsor them. Aunt or Uncle Step-Aunt or Step-Uncle or spouse’s Aunt or Uncle or Step-Aunt or Step-Uncle can all qualify as sponsors, and other relatives can qualify as sponsors. Where the sponsor lives in Australia is crucial information. In some regions cousins and grandparents can act as sponsors. Applicants who have a relative living in certain areas can sometimes qualify with lower qualifications and less work experience.

 

When people answer the question about their academic qualifications they sometimes include qualifications that are not fully completed. Incomplete qualifications, no matter how substantial, are given no weight by the Australian authorities. The question on the form asks for details of COMPLETED qualifications. The grade average attained is often an important factor; qualifications some universities are immediately assessed as equivalent to Australian degrees. For some other universities the level at which a qualification will be assessed depends on the Grade Level achieved over the course. We need to know the letter Grade Level (A, B, C) or the percentage Grade Level 85% or whatever it was. Answers such as Grade Level ‘Good’ are inadequate. There is space at the end of the form to mention partially completed qualifications, which might strengthen an application, but will not qualify an applicant. If you cannot readily find out your Grade Average for an academic course, write NOT KNOWN and we will advise you if this information is crucial in your case. Some prospective applicants list only their highest academic qualification. We need full details of all qualifications.

Some applicants instruct us that they are single, married, widowed, divorced, separated, de facto. If more than one of these applies we need to know. For example an applicant who is separated and living in a de facto (common law) relationship with another partner s/he might be able to include the de facto partner on a visa application. In any case a de facto partner, even if not to be included on a visa application, must be declared to Australian immigration. We cannot advise about this if we do not know about it.

It is sometimes far less expensive and easier for the spouse to be the primary visa applicant. Far too often we do not receive a second assessment form for the spouses of married (or de facto) applicants. Some prospective visa applicants believe that the more highly qualified spouse, or partner, should be the primary visa applicant. In some cases very highly qualified visa applicants must undergo a lengthy and expensive skills assessment and it is far better for the spouse to be the primary applicant. In other cases where the visa is points-tested it sometimes necessary to obtain bonus points for spouse skills to meet the qualifying points score. The details of work experience are often not sufficiently detailed for us to assess the duties the prospective visa applicant. We need to know the ACTUAL duties performed, not what is on a Duty Statement, unless the Duty Statement corresponds very closely with the actual day-by-day employment duties.

There have been cases where we advised prospective applicants that they appeared to have good visa prospects and when we checked the information missing from the form we found out: The relative who proposed to sponsor them was not a resident, the Masters Degree had not been completed, the uncle who proposed to sponsor them was not legally an uncle, their actual employment duties differed their Duty Statement, and so on.

If you have a Curriculum Vitae please send it, but a CV on its own is not enough for us to advise you about your visa prospects. What we have to assess before anything else is whether a prospective applicant can satisfy the VISA criteria. To take one example, and there are many more, to obtain a positive skills assessment an accountant must have a degree, with a major in accounting, assessed as comparable to an Australian degree. Work experience is not a factor. An accountant can obtain positive skills assessment without ever having worked as an accountant. In some occupations work experience is crucial in obtaining a positive skills assessment.

It is counterproductive to try to second-guess a Registered Migration Agent about what information is required. There is no point in seeking a professional assessment and not providing ALL the information requested. It is obviously disappointing for prospective applicants to have their expectations raised only to find out later that they cannot qualify after all. If we receive properly and fully completed assessment forms we will get it right every time. We will be able to advise applicants about their visa choices and what they might be able to do to improve their visa prospects.

 

 

Please note: We play no part in processing visa applications, this is entirely a matter for Australian immigration authorities and we do not process skills assessment applications. This is done by the designated skills assessing authority, usually in Australia. Our role is to advise clients about their visa prospects and assist them to prepare and lodge applications. Any professional advice given will be based on the information provided.

 

Please ensure that the information provided is complete, accurate and correct.

 

 

 

NOTE: Spouses of married applicants MUST complete a separate assessment form, so must de facto (common law) partners and same-sex partners and dependants 17 years of age or older; even if not applying for a visa.

 

and the particular question about relatives in Australia is:

 

If you have relatives in Australia, give details of: their immigration status in Australia (citizen, permanent resident) their relationship to you, the city or town in which they live and the Postal Code, their contact details (name, address and telephone number). Is your relative willing to sponsor you? To be clear about the legal relationship it is better to write ‘My father’s brother’ rather than ‘uncle’.

 

[Quinkla]

Well actually in the country I am coming from there is no such a thing like great aunt! In this situation we still say aunt...

In my country (UK) we called our great aunts "Aunt". Some of my friends called any adult woman "Auntie". But we all knew what an aunt was.

[Sammy1]

There won't be an exception. To say a great aunt is same as an aunt is like saying a grandparent is same as a parent. They are completely different, this is nothing to do with culture.

 

Unfortunately your visa will be refused and you need to find another way, like state sponsorship perhaps. Or take IELTS again for maximum points if you have not already.

 

 

I have to disagree, culture does have a part to play. My Great Aunt is my Aunt. I have always called her Aunt. In fact all my Great Aunts and Great Uncles were my Aunts and Uncles, as simple as that. We were close.

 

Unfortunately, this of course does not help the OP with the visa situation, but I felt people were being a little unkind saying a Great Aunt is not an Aunt and that it is not a cultural thing.....

[Rupert]

I have to disagree, culture does have a part to play. My Great Aunt is my Aunt. I have always called her Aunt. In fact all my Great Aunts and Great Uncles were my Aunts and Uncles, as simple as that. We were close.

 

Unfortunately, this of course does not help the OP with the visa situation, but I felt people were being a little unkind saying a Great Aunt is not an Aunt and that it is not a cultural thing.....

 

 

Nothing unusual here and I did not say it was not normal to call someone who is not an aunt "aunt". What i am saying, is that calling someone aunt, does not make them an aunt, no matter what culture it is.

 

My great aunt was called aunt, we certainly didn't ever address her as "Great Aunt Jane", That sounds slightly ridiculous in fact! Friends of my parents were called aunt and uncle sometimes as that was polite. But I knew very well from the age of about 6 who was my aunt, who was my mother's aunt and who was an adult friend of the family.

 

And a great aunt is not an aunt and culture does not make it so. This is not unkind, this is a fact. This is not rocket science!

[Sammy1]

Nothing unusual here and I did not say it was not normal to call someone who is not an aunt "aunt". What i am saying, is that calling someone aunt, does not make them an aunt, no matter what culture it is.

 

My great aunt was called aunt, we certainly didn't ever address her as "Great Aunt Jane", That sounds slightly ridiculous in fact! Friends of my parents were called aunt and uncle sometimes as that was polite. But I knew very well from the age of about 6 who was my aunt, who was my mother's aunt and who was an adult friend of the family.

 

And a great aunt is not an aunt. This is not rocket science!

 

 

No, it is not rocket science.

However, I am not talking about the technicalities of it, nor even the legalities, but rather the cultural perspective (mine is different to yours) as per my post.

[blossom]

I agree with rupert. We always called my great aunt aunty, infact I still do. But I always KNEW she was my mum's Aunty, not mine. I don't think the cultures are any different, we all do it. And it is simple to me too, my great aunty would never count as an aunt when something specifically asks about your aunt. Only my parents siblings would count, it's very basic.

[audre]

I agree with rupert. We always called my great aunt aunty, infact I still do. But I always KNEW she was my mum's Aunty, not mine. I don't think the cultures are any different, we all do it. And it is simple to me too, my great aunty would never count as an aunt when something specifically asks about your aunt. Only my parents siblings would count, it's very basic.

 

i think there are definitely cultural differences to take into account when discussing this issue a great aunt is an aunt for some people / cultures, based on level of closeness. certain social and cultural contexts have different kinship structures that influence naming and emotional closeness.

 

HOWEVER, the argument here should not be what an aunt is in what culture and to whom but what this factually means for australian immigration - which is what rupert was referring to previously - and what it all comes down to in the end.

[Sammy1]

I agree with rupert. We always called my great aunt aunty, infact I still do. But I always KNEW she was my mum's Aunty, not mine. I don't think the cultures are any different, we all do it. And it is simple to me too, my great aunty would never count as an aunt when something specifically asks about your aunt. Only my parents siblings would count, it's very basic.

 

 

What I am trying to get across here is that just because one persons perspective is different to yours or Rupert's etc, that does not mean it is wrong.

 

It merely means we see things differently on a cultural level. The OP is not incorrect (nor am I), that is his/hers/my own experience and very valid as such.

 

Unfortunately , when it comes to a visa it does not meet the eligibility requirement - that is the plain part.

 

Lets such accept that we have different cultural experiences if possible.

[Grecia]

I have to disagree, culture does have a part to play. My Great Aunt is my Aunt. I have always called her Aunt. In fact all my Great Aunts and Great Uncles were my Aunts and Uncles, as simple as that. We were close.

 

Unfortunately, this of course does not help the OP with the visa situation, but I felt people were being a little unkind saying a Great Aunt is not an Aunt and that it is not a cultural thing.....

 

Sorry, but I don't think it is a "cultural thing" either - seems to be more the language barrier. FACT: different languages have different words for relatives, e.g. German has different words for male and female cousins (actually 2 for each) which we don't have. The OP's language - apparently - has no term for great uncles or aunts. It's purely linguistic, and I think if you are filling in a VERY important form in a language that is not your native tongue, you need to either be 100% sure of what you are signing up to, or else get professional help.

 

And by the way when the DIBP say that a "close relative" can sponsor, they don't mean any relative that you are particularly fond of! :wink:

[Sammy1]

Sorry, but I don't think it is a "cultural thing" either - seems to be more the language barrier. FACT: different languages have different words for relatives, e.g. German has different words for male and female cousins (actually 2 for each) which we don't have. The OP's language - apparently - has no term for great uncles or aunts. It's purely linguistic, and I think if you are filling in a VERY important form in a language that is not your native tongue, you need to either be 100% sure of what you are signing up to, or else get professional help..

And by the way when the DIBP say that a "close relative" can sponsor, they don't mean any relative that you are particularly fond of! :wink:

 

 

.....and that is your perspective.

[Grecia]

.....and that is your perspective.

 

No that's my LANGUAGE!

:tongue::confused:

[audre]

No that's my LANGUAGE!

:tongue::confused:

 

and language is a social-cultural construct, therefore related to culture.

[Grecia]

and language is a social-cultural construct, therefore related to culture.

 

So you are saying that nobody should bother to learn a language properly - just bungle through with a few pidgin words and then accuse our interlocutors of "cultural insensitivity" when misunderstandings occur? Sounds like a "culture" of ignorance to me...

[Sammy1]

So you are saying that nobody should bother to learn a language properly - just bungle through with a few pidgin words and then accuse our interlocutors of "cultural insensitivity" when misunderstandings occur? Sounds like a "culture" of ignorance to me...

 

 

I think you lost your case, but an interesting discussion nonetheless.

[Grecia]

I think you lost your case, but an interesting discussion nonetheless.

 

Thank you - I do so adore being patronised...! :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[blossom]

I think you lost your case, but an interesting discussion nonetheless.

Funny, I was thinking exactly the same about you reading your posts.

As both rupert and I both said, we both DO call our great aunts 'aunt' so there is no cultural difference there at all......

[Joebloggs]

Funny, I was thinking exactly the same about you reading your posts.

As both rupert and I both said, we both DO call our great aunts 'aunt' so there is no cultural difference there at all......

 

As do I, my great aunt Imelda was always known as Aunt Imelda. But I wouldn't be stupid enough to claim it was my Aunt in an official context such as immigration.

[Jupiter19]

If the OP had consulted a RMA for an assessment, this disaster would not have happened.

 

:biglaugh:

Unless she would be wrongly advised by an agent !

[Rupert]

No, it is not rocket science.

However, I am not talking about the technicalities of it, nor even the legalities, but rather the cultural perspective (mine is different to yours) as per my post.

 

Did you actually read my post? How about anybody else's?

 

Because I have said and others have said that we all call great aunties a simple "aunt". I have even said that as children we were required to call family friends aunt and uncle too. Regardless of how we address people, from the comments on this thread, it is very clear that both you and I and everyone else understands the differences and know what is an aunt, what is a parent's aunt and what is a family friend.

 

So what "cultural difference" are you referring to specifically here in the matter of aunts and great aunts? Because you are not making any sense and you most certainly have not proved a point.