The solution to Australia's woes: persuade people that there is no crisis

[Perthbum]

What a nasty party you lot have voted in....

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/26/australia-happiest-wealthy-nation

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/19157882/government-rejects-delay-on-boat-response/

[wakeboard1980]

You had better find another country to love then. Both the UK and Aus have 'nasty party's' in now. Should give you plenty to whinge about.

[surfndirt]

Geez Perthbum, you really are a raving lefty hey....

 

Hint - look at the state of the UK and reflect on which party were in power for so long. The UK is the most clear cut example of what happens when you leave them in for too long. I'm sure there will be arguments against but I can't see how?

[Bobbsy]

I've been saying this all along.

 

Australia has the healthiest economy in the developed world yet the LNP conned the voters into thinking there's some kind of crisis going on.

 

Australia needs high speed broadband if it's to compete in the future and the NBN scheme was cost effective and in pretty good shape both financially and in terms of schedule yet the LNP made people believe it's seriously over budget and delayed.

 

Australia has international commitments to look after asylum seekers yet the LNP (and, in this case Labor as well) wants to lock the unfortunate of the world up in concentration camps.

 

How does this all happen? Does the name "Murdoch" ring a bell?

[akiralx]

I've been saying this all along.

 

Australia has the healthiest economy in the developed world yet the LNP conned the voters into thinking there's some kind of crisis going on.

 

 

What is even worse is that the LNP, aided by a lazy media, tried to convince Australians that asylum seekers/'boat people' constitute a crisis. The fact is that asylum seekers, however they arrive, have a negligible effect on Australia's economy or Australian society generally.

[rob dc]

I know someone like you

cause and effect

prevoke an argument then stand back and watch with a smile

you have little good to say about Australia so why do you bother to come here ?

are you really that bored ?

[Guest littlesarah]

What a nasty party you lot have voted in....

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/26/australia-happiest-wealthy-nation

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/19157882/government-rejects-delay-on-boat-response/

 

I rather like the Guardian piece - I have bemoaned for a long time, and continue to do so, the inability of the popular press to correlate political rhetoric with the evidence that is available. But given that journalists seem unable to report accurately even science-based topics without resorting to hyperbole and misrepresentation I guess it's no surprise. It saddens me that such a significant proportion of the general population is unwilling or unable to question critically the information with which they are presented, but I also think that years of 'dumbing down' and large multinational interests in the media have led us the situation in which a lot of people have forgotten (or never learned) to seek the other side of an argument, or question the basis of what is written or spoken.

[Bobbsy]

What is even worse is that the LNP, aided by a lazy media, tried to convince Australians that asylum seekers/'boat people' constitute a crisis. The fact is that asylum seekers, however they arrive, have a negligible effect on Australia's economy or Australian society generally.

 

I rather like the Guardian piece - I have bemoaned for a long time, and continue to do so, the inability of the popular press to correlate political rhetoric with the evidence that is available.

 

It's neither lazy media or an "inability". It's a very deliberate and self serving editorial policy by Rupert Murdoch who owns more than half the media in this country (by circulation and viewers).

[akiralx]

It's neither lazy media or an "inability". It's a very deliberate and self serving editorial policy by Rupert Murdoch who owns more than half the media in this country (by circulation and viewers).

 

Oh, I agree - but the rest of the media never challenge or examine it, they just lap it up, and only succeed in conveying the illusion that 'the boats' is a serious issue.

[MARYROSE02]

Rupert Murdoch didn't need to do anything to convince Australian voters to kick the ALP out, after six years of incompetence. Did Rupert Murdoch corrupt NSW for 16 years? No it was the ALP Government and its corrupt factions and unions. Ian MacDonald, Eddie Obeid, Craig Thompson.

 

I've just been watching Scott Morrison's media conference live on Murdoch's Sky/Fox News. It was reported verbatim, as is every news item, and it is the same in his newspapers. If you want bias/prejudice/propaganda, then turn to the ABC and the Fairfax Media. Mike Carlton's columns for instance. He HATES the Liberal/National Party and Murdoch, and his columns reflect his nasty prejudices.

 

 

Australia has always accepted its share of refugees, but the first thing that Kevin Rudd did on becoming Prime Minsister was to end the successful Liberal policy on illegal boats. How are we supposed to know if the refugees are legitimate asylum seekers when they throw away their papers? Why do they throw away their papers? Why should the Australian Government take responsibilty for ships that get into difficulty well outside its own territorial waters?

[starlight7]

Perthbum just doesn't 'get' Australians is all. The previous government were totally messed up by their internal bickerings and lack of clear policies. They deserved to lose and lose heavily. Until they sort themselves out they won't get in again. Thankfully most Australians realise this. The once proud Labor party is on its knees and still looking to creepy backstabbing silvertongues for leadership. We were always Labor voters from way back when but no more. We worked it out.

[flag of convenience]

Rupert Murdoch didn't need to do anything to convince Australian voters to kick the ALP out, after six years of incompetence. Did Rupert Murdoch corrupt NSW for 16 years? No it was the ALP Government and its corrupt factions and unions. Ian MacDonald, Eddie Obeid, Craig Thompson.

 

I've just been watching Scott Morrison's media conference live on Murdoch's Sky/Fox News. It was reported verbatim, as is every news item, and it is the same in his newspapers. If you want bias/prejudice/propaganda, then turn to the ABC and the Fairfax Media. Mike Carlton's columns for instance. He HATES the Liberal/National Party and Murdoch, and his columns reflect his nasty prejudices.

 

 

Australia has always accepted its share of refugees, but the first thing that Kevin Rudd did on becoming Prime Minsister was to end the successful Liberal policy on illegal boats. How are we supposed to know if the refugees are legitimate asylum seekers when they throw away their papers? Why do they throw away their papers? Why should the Australian Government take responsibilty for ships that get into difficulty well outside its own territorial waters?

 

Thank goodness for the ABC. Australian ships rescue those in peril at sea if they are in the vicinity or close by. Other wise they rightly request merchant vessels to divert to the scene to assist. Rules of the sea and rightly so. The preferred policy of silence and unaccountability is hard for the Con's to sustain with such media demanding answers.

[Ellie 2]

I rather like the Guardian piece - I have bemoaned for a long time, and continue to do so, the inability of the popular press to correlate political rhetoric with the evidence that is available. But given that journalists seem unable to report accurately even science-based topics without resorting to hyperbole and misrepresentation I guess it's no surprise. It saddens me that such a significant proportion of the general population is unwilling or unable to question critically the information with which they are presented, but I also think that years of 'dumbing down' and large multinational interests in the media have led us the situation in which a lot of people have forgotten (or never learned) to seek the other side of an argument, or question the basis of what is written or spoken.

 

 

There are far too many assumptions in this post.

[Bobbsy]

Rupert Murdoch didn't need to do anything to convince Australian voters to kick the ALP out, after six years of incompetence. Did Rupert Murdoch corrupt NSW for 16 years? No it was the ALP Government and its corrupt factions and unions. Ian MacDonald, Eddie Obeid, Craig Thompson.

 

I've just been watching Scott Morrison's media conference live on Murdoch's Sky/Fox News. It was reported verbatim, as is every news item, and it is the same in his newspapers. If you want bias/prejudice/propaganda, then turn to the ABC and the Fairfax Media. Mike Carlton's columns for instance. He HATES the Liberal/National Party and Murdoch, and his columns reflect his nasty prejudices.

 

 

Australia has always accepted its share of refugees, but the first thing that Kevin Rudd did on becoming Prime Minsister was to end the successful Liberal policy on illegal boats. How are we supposed to know if the refugees are legitimate asylum seekers when they throw away their papers? Why do they throw away their papers? Why should the Australian Government take responsibilty for ships that get into difficulty well outside its own territorial waters?

 

 

Yeah. The ALP was so "incompetent" that it made Australia the only developed country in the world not to dip into recession during and after the global financial crisis. It managed to do this while keeping our national debt to a level of about 1/3 that of the UK and 1/2 that of the USA.

 

Your assertion that Murdoch's media is not biased to be pro LNP simply doesn't acknowledge the facts. How 'bout this little classic:

 

 

However, far more insidious were the endless references in the "quality" Murdoch press to things like a budget crisis or "huge" borrowing and so on. Say something often enough and people start to believe it even if untrue.

 

Finally, my big objection to the asylum seeker policy of both parties is putting human beings in concentration camps. Frankly, that makes us as a nation guilty of crimes against humanity and makes me ashamed to live in a country that thinks such actions are acceptable. There are ways and means of processing refugees without resorting to nazi-style tactics...and the only asylum seeksers I know are hard working folk, many of whom have set up their own small businesses. The best fish and chip shop in Brisbane is run by an asylum seeker named Dang.

[Peach]

An alternate viewpoint:

 

As Tony Abbott said ad nauseam during the campaign, the 2013 federal election was about three things: the onerous level of public debt, stopping the boats and abolition of the carbon tax. ..........

 

Ignored until after the election was the question of whether the moderate level of debt was a major factor in Australia avoiding the recessionary consequences of the global financial crisis. Then the new government (and its media apologists) segued effortlessly and without explanation into arguing that the deficit wasn't a life-and-death issue after all. In fact, the budget couldn't be brought back quickly into balance without risking undermining the still soft recovery.

 

All the information needed to make that judgment was publicly available by the beginning of 2013. But to recognise the economic reality would have involved a different election narrative: that there was room for expansionary budgetary policies. There was no debt crisis. But the truth didn't fit the narrative that Abbott constructed to win the election: that the Labor government was incompetent and illegitimate. ...........

 

Abbott went into the 2013 Australian election falsely implying that living standards were falling and that a major component in rising electricity prices was the carbon tax. He said the effect of policy action on climate change was ''to put at risk our manufacturing industry, to penalise struggling families, to make a tough situation worse for millions of families around Australia''.

 

 

By comparison to Britain, and indeed most European countries, Australia has a climate denial government. Abbott is on the record as saying ''the science isn't settled'', the world is ''cooling'', and ''whether the carbon dioxide is quite the environmental villain that some people make it out to be is not yet proven''.

 

There is more here: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/tony-abbotts-rising-tide-of-inconvenient-truths-20130929-2umbc.html

[Ellie 2]

Yeah. The ALP was so "incompetent" that it made Australia the only developed country in the world not to dip into recession during and after the global financial crisis. It managed to do this while keeping our national debt to a level of about 1/3 that of the UK and 1/2 that of the USA.

 

The only reason we didn't go into recession was because of the money left to the ALP by the Libs. All they did was waste it on ill conceived schemes. There was plenty of infrastructure they could have spent it on that would have kept people working and there would have been something decent to show for it.

[Bobbsy]

 

The only reason we didn't go into recession was because of the money left to the ALP by the Libs. All they did was waste it on ill conceived schemes. There was plenty of infrastructure they could have spent it on that would have kept people working and there would have been something decent to show for it.

 

Sorry to let facts get in the way of a good argument but the Libs didn't leave the ALP any money. When the ALP took over government in 2007 the Australian debt to GDP ratio was 9.7%. After six years of ALP government that figure was 22.9%, pretty much the envy of the world after the GFC.

 

As for the projects that were funded, they kept Australia out of recession so that can't all have been wrong.

 

Keeping people working? The unemployment rate as barely moved since 2007 (from a low starting figure) and, again, is the envy of the world when you consider places like Spain with general unemployment of 12.1% (and youth unemployment over 50%).

 

By all means dislike the ALP or Gillard or Rudd but don't make up crises and problems that don't exist--and don't trust Murdoch or the LNP when they lie to you about it.

[flag of convenience]

Perthbum just doesn't 'get' Australians is all. The previous government were totally messed up by their internal bickerings and lack of clear policies. They deserved to lose and lose heavily. Until they sort themselves out they won't get in again. Thankfully most Australians realise this. The once proud Labor party is on its knees and still looking to creepy backstabbing silvertongues for leadership. We were always Labor voters from way back when but no more. We worked it out.

 

 

For a minority government they didn't do too bad. They brought out a few policies for the betterment of society. Policy a thing the other lot were somewhat void in delivering to say the least, beyond a few school yard slogans.

[flag of convenience]

Yeah. The ALP was so "incompetent" that it made Australia the only developed country in the world not to dip into recession during and after the global financial crisis. It managed to do this while keeping our national debt to a level of about 1/3 that of the UK and 1/2 that of the USA.

 

The only reason we didn't go into recession was because of the money left to the ALP by the Libs. All they did was waste it on ill conceived schemes. There was plenty of infrastructure they could have spent it on that would have kept people working and there would have been something decent to show for it.

 

And the previous Howard shower weren't spending big attempting to bribe the population to get another shot? They had the benefit of the prime of the boom and done so little with it.

[Guest Ptp113]

Perthbum just doesn't 'get' Australians is all. The previous government were totally messed up by their internal bickerings and lack of clear policies. They deserved to lose and lose heavily. Until they sort themselves out they won't get in again. Thankfully most Australians realise this. The once proud Labor party is on its knees and still looking to creepy backstabbing silvertongues for leadership. We were always Labor voters from way back when but no more. We worked it out.

 

I voted Liberal all my life and then I went to work at Parliament house for 3 1/2 years. I worked it out.

[Guest Ptp113]

Sorry to let facts get in the way of a good argument but the Libs didn't leave the ALP any money. When the ALP took over government in 2007 the Australian debt to GDP ratio was 9.7%. After six years of ALP government that figure was 22.9%, pretty much the envy of the world after the GFC.

 

As for the projects that were funded, they kept Australia out of recession so that can't all have been wrong.

 

Keeping people working? The unemployment rate as barely moved since 2007 (from a low starting figure) and, again, is the envy of the world when you consider places like Spain with general unemployment of 12.1% (and youth unemployment over 50%).

 

By all means dislike the ALP or Gillard or Rudd but don't make up crises and problems that don't exist--and don't trust Murdoch or the LNP when they lie to you about it.

 

You mustn't use facts here, you will get into BIG trouble. Best we don't mention the Treasurer who gave us 22% interest rates???????????

[Guest Ptp113]

 

And the previous Howard shower weren't spending big attempting to bribe the population to get another shot? They had the benefit of the prime of the boom and done so little with it.

 

Howard/Costello years are known as "the wasted years" here in Canberra circles. Not a surprise really.

[MARYROSE02]

Yeah. The ALP was so "incompetent" that it made Australia the only developed country in the world not to dip into recession during and after the global financial crisis. It managed to do this while keeping our national debt to a level of about 1/3 that of the UK and 1/2 that of the USA.

 

Your assertion that Murdoch's media is not biased to be pro LNP simply doesn't acknowledge the facts. How 'bout this little classic:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]21006[/ATTACH]

 

However, far more insidious were the endless references in the "quality" Murdoch press to things like a budget crisis or "huge" borrowing and so on. Say something often enough and people start to believe it even if untrue.

 

Finally, my big objection to the asylum seeker policy of both parties is putting human beings in concentration camps. Frankly, that makes us as a nation guilty of crimes against humanity and makes me ashamed to live in a country that thinks such actions are acceptable. There are ways and means of processing refugees without resorting to nazi-style tactics...and the only asylum seeksers I know are hard working folk, many of whom have set up their own small businesses. The best fish and chip shop in Brisbane is run by an asylum seeker named Dang.

 

 

 

Concentration camps? What like Dachau or the Gulag? How utterly ridiculous. Christmas Island is not a concentration camp and nor is Villawood, or anywhere else. If they WERE concentration camps, the news would have filtered back and people would not be making those dangerous voyages. Would you go to a country knowing full well that you were going to be interned in Dachau? Where would you like illegal immigrants without papers to be housed? In luxury hotels perhaps?

 

If what is written/said in the Murdoch media is all lies, as opposed to the truth on the ABC & Fairfax, why did the ALP get kicked out with such a huge loss of seats?

[MARYROSE02]

Thank goodness for the ABC. Australian ships rescue those in peril at sea if they are in the vicinity or close by. Other wise they rightly request merchant vessels to divert to the scene to assist. Rules of the sea and rightly so. The preferred policy of silence and unaccountability is hard for the Con's to sustain with such media demanding answers.

 

What? Are you seriously suggesting the Murdoch media ignored what was happening because they dared not criticise the Abbot Government? Ridiculous. I had Sky news on all afternoon, including a full showing of the Opposition Spokesman on Immigration's media conference in which he criticised every aspect of the Government's policy. Then they went on to interview various people in Indonesia about relations between the two countries.

 

Strangely enough, tonight's 'Q & A' on the ABC was totally different to the usual farce of a panel, audience and chairman all offering their one-sided views. Perhaps it was because it was in Perth.

[Guest Ptp113]

What? Are you seriously suggesting the Murdoch media ignored what was happening because they dared not criticise the Abbot Government? Ridiculous. I had Sky news on all afternoon, including a full showing of the Opposition Spokesman on Immigration's media conference in which he criticised every aspect of the Government's policy. Then they went on to interview various people in Indonesia about relations between the two countries.

 

Strangely enough, tonight's 'Q & A' on the ABC was totally different to the usual farce of a panel, audience and chairman all offering their one-sided views. Perhaps it was because it was in Perth.

You should have spent a day or two listening to 2GB before the election, it was really something.