Couple that's final made the decision to move to Oz. Is it too late though?!

[Stevieb1483]

Hi, I'm 30 years old and a ground worker in the UK (basically I drive 360 excavators, small dumpers and rollers. I can lay paving slabs/blocks/kerbs top water and foul drainage and build manholes. Concrete finishing, underground ducting etc etc) my birthday is in April next year making me 31. My long term girlfriend is already 31 and is a retail sales assistant in a lighting shop.

 

We are wanting to start a family and hoped Australia could be great place to raise a family. Is it too late for us though? As I know my girlfriend can't get a WHV because of her age, unless I've missed something? And from what I've read I may struggle dependant on when we leave the UK.

 

i was hoping we could get a little advice? or any suggestions on other possible routes into Australia?

Also I've been doing the work I do for 10years now, I'm very experienced at what I do and meet a lot of people on construction sites that say they have friends that have moved there and haven't looked back. Is this the case?

 

I have no official qualifications other than my machine licenses & only a few recent photos of the work I've done on various sites.

 

without rambling on much more, thanks for taking time to read this.

 

steve

[Joebloggs]

Mate your dreaming.

 

Operator is not on any list, I know a couple of operators who were sponsored as drainers but its very difficult. The country is awash with machine operators from Ireland on WHV or Kiwis who don't need sponsored to drive machines there's no real demand for it.

 

Also the rules regarding sponsorship has changed and you are not allowed to be sponsored under an occupation but then work at a different occupation anymore.

 

Plenty of threads on this over the last couple of years same story.

 

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/western-australia/144725-drainers-457-sponsorship.html

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/jobs-careers/152019-excavator-operators.html

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/new-south-wales/145789-jobs-nsw-excavator-operator.html

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/queensland/145790-excavator-drainer.html

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/144632-reccie-sponsorship.html

[Guest scrumpy]

Where theres a will there a way, good luck,

[lebourvellec]

Re-training in a skilled occupation and gaining experience is your only option. But with migration regulations changing constantly it is difficult to predict if you would be successful in gaining a visa in the future.

[clairebear82]

Hey,

 

Unfortunately, its pretty unlikely based on what you have said above :-( sorry, don't want to be the bearer of bad news.

 

But the reality is that even people with occupations on the CSOL or SOL still find it difficult - Visas are expensive and it can be a stressful process, but more importantly, people coming here on PR visas with 'In demand' skills can struggle to find work, let alone someone who is not on the wanted list. I wouldn't recommend coming here to live the dream based on this!

 

But, if it is something that you have your heart set on, then just have a look at immi.gov.au and check out the visa types and requirements. There probably isn't anything you can apply for right now, but it will give you a good idea what you need to do - but as lebourvellec said, the regulations change constantly, but your best option would be to gain a recognised qualification and look at skilled migration visas.

 

Its not impossible, but you will probably not be able to do anything for a few years yet - Just keep doing your research and sure you will find a way :-)

[grahamffc]

You are fine to get a WHV, you can apply up to the day before your 31st birthday and from it being issued you have 365 in which to activate it, then it lasts for 12 months. So you could effectively have it from being 31 years and 51 weeks to being just shirt if your 33rd birthday.

 

However, as mentioned above it is only likely to offer you casual work...cafes, call centres, etc. Unless of course you know of someone over here that will give you some work regardless of the visa, ie a friend etc

[Stevieb1483]

Mate your dreaming.

 

Operator is not on any list, I know a couple of operators who were sponsored as drainers but its very difficult. The country is awash with machine operators from Ireland on WHV or Kiwis who don't need sponsored to drive machines there's no real demand for it.

 

Also the rules regarding sponsorship has changed and you are not allowed to be sponsored under an occupation but then work at a different occupation anymore.

 

Plenty of threads on this over the last couple of years same story.

 

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/western-australia/144725-drainers-457-sponsorship.html

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/jobs-careers/152019-excavator-operators.html

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/new-south-wales/145789-jobs-nsw-excavator-operator.html

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/queensland/145790-excavator-drainer.html

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/144632-reccie-sponsorship.html

 

I've worded my profession wrong after looking on the SOL ... I'm a Drainer, I am going to get a WHV, get to Australia and get work with a drainage company. And Profession aside I've got a cracking personality and ambition and drive that is second to none with portfolio too match . So joebloggs my negative friend the door is not quite shut yet by all accounts. So surely the dream is still alive for this motivated individual. Thanks for your reply, it's made me more determined than ever

[Stevieb1483]

You are fine to get a WHV, you can apply up to the day before your 31st birthday and from it being issued you have 365 in which to activate it, then it lasts for 12 months. So you could effectively have it from being 31 years and 51 weeks to being just shirt if your 33rd birthday.

 

However, as mentioned above it is only likely to offer you casual work...cafes, call centres, etc. Unless of course you know of someone over here that will give you some work regardless of the visa, ie a friend etc

 

 

Hey, thanks Gra.

 

thats very helpful. I was hoping to take this route and try to get my skills as a Drainer assessed whilst in Australia, then land a job with a drainage company and hopefully secure a 457.

[lebourvellec]

I've worded my profession wrong after looking on the SOL ... I'm a Drainer, I am going to get a WHV, get to Australia and get work with a drainage company. And Profession aside I've got a cracking personality and ambition and drive that is second to none with portfolio too match . So joebloggs my negative friend the door is not quite shut yet by all accounts. So surely the dream is still alive for this motivated individual. Thanks for your reply, it's made me more determined than ever

Without any qualifications you can not be sponsored on a 457.

[blossom]

Unfortunately determination just tends to get squished in the migration process. As has been said, you are highly unlikely to be eligible for any visa. Getting sponsorship (if your job is on one of the lists) is just about impossible for trades as most trade companies keep their staff on casual contracts, or have them registered as self employed. To be able to sponsor the company must have a certain number of permanent staff, and train a certain number of staff per year. Many people find willing companies for trades, but they just can't tick the boxes for immigration.

 

As has been pointed out, there is not a huge demand either making it even less likely, and that's before we get to the fact that you are very unlikely to qualify for the visa with no qualifications (licences don't count).

 

I was in your situation and I retrained. The rules then did change, and it took me an extra three years than I had counted on to get pr. I was like you, determined it WOULD happen. It was the most stressful thing I've done in my life, and although I do like living here, and don't plan to go back, it wasn't worth it.

[Stevieb1483]

Without any qualifications you can not be sponsored on a 457.

 

So is it not possible to get my skills as a drainer assessed whilst on WHV? Or perhaps do an intensive course as I already know what im doing?

[Freesia]

take that positive attitude & go with the WHV- you can look into all that once you're over there & having a great time in the process. Have an adventure & see where it goes

[Stevieb1483]

I'm very confused now :err:... Am I been thick here, but.. If drainers aren't in demand.. Then why are we still on the SOL? Why hasn't the government taken them off the list?

 

also this employer sponsorship route I'm hoping to take, even if I had qualifications in England, they wouldn't be valid in Australia? So is there any reason can't I have my skills assessed whilst on my years WHV? Otherwise how do drainers get in??

 

Also wouldn't an employer jump at the chance to employ someone that knows what he's doing, as opposed to an apprentice who's fresh out of school? Couldn't the sponsor, put me through "training" and pay me an apprentices wage? Until qualified, then that the employer gets a qualified worker for a discounted price, and in return, the worker gets to work and stay in Australia.

[Rupert]

It is far from a good plan, in fact I also think it is unlikely to succeed but if you were determined to try and see for yourself, and can afford for it to not work out, then it is your prerogative. The issues I see are firstly that your partner cannot get a WHV, so she would need to come out on a regular tourist visa, do you have enough funds to keep you both going?

 

Then when you do get here, you will probably find that trades do not get sponsored very often, explained already on the thread as to why this is the case. Also the occupation that you have mentioned seems to require licensing to work in it and I don't think you will get licences without qualifications. More general "groundsman" role might not need licensing, but then it isn't on the occupations list so you won't be able to get sponsorship under that.

 

Definitely no, I don't think any employer would jump at the chance of taking on an apprentice that they need to sponsor. Also the 457 visa is not designed for apprentices, the governments view on this is that apprenticeships should be going to Australian citizens. It is also contrary to re visa terms to use the 457 as a way of getting cheap labour, so you cannot sell yourself tat way either.

 

Unfortunately it just doesn't seem hopeful to me at all..

[Kezzles]

take that positive attitude & go with the WHV- you can look into all that once you're over there & having a great time in the process. Have an adventure & see where it goes

 

I agree just go and test the water then apply for 190 when you are there! You don't have to work in the trade or profession you get in on I'm sure many don't!!

[Stevieb1483]

It is far from a good plan, in fact I also think it is unlikely to succeed but if you were determined to try and see for yourself, and can afford for it to not work out, then it is your prerogative. The issues I see are firstly that your partner cannot get a WHV, so she would need to come out on a regular tourist visa, do you have enough funds to keep you both going?

 

Then when you do get here, you will probably find that trades do not get sponsored very often, explained already on the thread as to why this is the case. Also the occupation that you have mentioned seems to require licensing to work in it and I don't think you will get licences without qualifications. More general "groundsman" role might not need licensing, but then it isn't on the occupations list so you won't be able to get sponsorship under that.

 

Definitely no, I don't think any employer would jump at the chance of taking on an apprentice that they need to sponsor. Also the 457 visa is not designed for apprentices, the governments view on this is that apprenticeships should be going to Australian citizens. It is also contrary to re visa terms to use the 457 as a way of getting cheap labour, so you cannot sell yourself tat way either.

 

Unfortunately it just doesn't seem hopeful to me at all..

 

 

Im frustrated now because I've read this info on the governments site

 

Job description

 

 

Installs, maintains and designs below-ground drainage systems and associated sewerage or effluent disposal systems. Registration or licensing is required.

 

 

Skill level

 

 

This occupation has a level of skill commensurate with the qualifications and experience in Australia of AQF Certificate III including at least two years of on-the-job training, or AQF Certificate IV (ANZSCO Skill Level 3).

 

 

At least three years of relevant experience may substitute for the formal qualifications listed above. In some instances relevant experience and/or on-the-job training may be required in addition to the formal qualification.

 

 

If you require further information on this occupation, please refer to the Australian Bureau of Statistics website.

See: Unit Group - 3341 Plumbers

 

 

Information on the skill level of each occupation is consistent with the Australian and New Zealand Standard Classification of Occupations (ANZSCO) and may differ from the requirements set by the assessing authorities for obtaining a skills assessment. Please contact the relevant assessing authority for your nominated occupation to check on their requirements.

 

 

Program eligibility

 

 

Applicants in this occupation may be eligible for skilled migration under the following programs: Employer Nomination Scheme (ENS), Regional Sponsored Migration Scheme (RSMS), Points Based Skilled Migration visa, Temporary Business (Long Stay) (Subclass 457).

 

It states that licensing is not needed when the candidate has 3 years experience, and no one has answered my point that - Your saying licensing is required, but a UK license would be of no value??? so how do drainers get there skills assessed to work in Australia? -

[Rupert]

 

It states that licensing is not needed when the candidate has 3 years experience, and no one has answered my point that - Your saying licensing is required, but a UK license would be of no value??? so how do drainers get there skills assessed to work in Australia? -

 

Don't confuse licensing with skills assessment, it is completely different.

 

You require skills assessment for a skilled migration visa application, I believe TRA is the assessing body so you apply through them, you would have to see if your experience would substitute for qualifications. Do you honestly think what you do fits the bill for this job description, you should assume that they will be rigorous about this in assessing you. A loose connection will result in a fail.

 

If you look further down the page on the immigration website, it mentions licensing is required in nearly all states, you would need this to work in Australia and no a UK licence is not what they mean. I have mentioned this as you are talking about going on a WHV trying to get sponsorship, so you wouldn't need skills assessment but you would still need a licence to be able to work on the WHV or a 457 visa, so you need to see what that entails as well if you decide to pursue that route.

[Joebloggs]

I've worded my profession wrong after looking on the SOL ... I'm a Drainer, I am going to get a WHV, get to Australia and get work with a drainage company. And Profession aside I've got a cracking personality and ambition and drive that is second to none with portfolio too match . So joebloggs my negative friend the door is not quite shut yet by all accounts. So surely the dream is still alive for this motivated individual. Thanks for your reply, it's made me more determined than ever

 

I think the word you should have used was realistic rather than negative, it's only negative to you because it's not what you want to hear. I never said the door was completely shut but this idea that you are just going land out here on a restrictive visa like WHV and find work as a drainer based on the fact you have a couple of old photos and a cracking personality. For starters all your licences are useless over here might as well leave them at home, you need to start from scratch and at least LE & LS ticket plus a white card and a confined space ticket if doing drain work.

 

Also you will find a lot of trade employers like the road gangs, pipe layers, excavation, drainers are all small gangs. Most of the large companies use gangs of subbies which are made up of smaller gangs. Usually between 5-20 per gang they don't want the hassle of checking references in the UK, they usually only want 'Local Experience' or 'Australian Experience' which is a catch 22. Easier for them to say no come back when you have some local experience meaning when you have worked for one of the other gangs and you havnt messed up then you should be good because we will be checking. Sure you could always then pull out your photos so everyone could have a good laugh, It's not what you know but who you know.

 

The Irish are big into the excavation and pipe laying game here and there are thousands of them, digging holes and laying conduit, pipes, cable, drains, and form working services is their speciality. If you are not actually Irish it's very hard to get in to an Irish gang, lot of these guys will vouch and get their friends in and the local experience is not a problem ...as above it's the old story it not what you know but who you know.

 

I'm not saying its a total impossibility but reality in Australia is very different from sitting in the UK reading a couple of websites.

[Stevieb1483]

Don't confuse licensing with skills assessment, it is completely different.

 

You require skills assessment for a skilled migration visa application, I believe TRA is the assessing body so you apply through them, you would have to see if your experience would substitute for qualifications. Do you honestly think what you do fits the bill for this job description, you should assume that they will be rigorous about this in assessing you. A loose connection will result in a fail.

 

If you look further down the page on the immigration website, it mentions licensing is required in nearly all states, you would need this to work in Australia and no a UK licence is not what they mean. I have mentioned this as you are talking about going on a WHV trying to get sponsorship, so you wouldn't need skills assessment but you would still need a licence to be able to work on the WHV or a 457 visa, so you need to see what that entails as well if you decide to pursue that route.

 

 

The specialist skill that's attached to drainer, is sceptic tank installation. Which I have been "head drainer" on several projects in the UK the most significant been 2 extremely large tanks on an international airport, also 2 large tanks on the silverstone Grand Prix circuit... I've been putting foul and top water drainage in since i was 18, so yes I'm more than confident that I am HONEST about the skills I have, I'm very disappointed that you would question my integrity :mad:. I can appreciate the migration system has been abused by idiots who say they can do a job but can't... In the UK a "ground worker" is a drainer and civil operative all rolled into one once you have gained enough experience. So yes I am drainer and a lot more too. The only license I will need as far as what I have read would be a white card, and I have emailed the governments assessing bodies for several states. When they get back to me with a reply I will post back on here, in hope to help shed some light on this subject. Just simply because from all the legal requirements I've read, I'd be right in what I'm saying.

 

I understand where your coming from, but it sounds like you don't understand the construction industry as rule.

 

please don't take this as arrogance, as any info is greatly appreciated, be it positive or negative.

[Stevieb1483]

I think the word you should have used was realistic rather than negative, it's only negative to you because it's not what you want to hear. I never said the door was completely shut but this idea that you are just going land out here on a restrictive visa like WHV and find work as a drainer based on the fact you have a couple of old photos and a cracking personality. For starters all your licences are useless over here might as well leave them at home, you need to start from scratch and at least LE & LS ticket plus a white card and a confined space ticket if doing drain work.

 

Also you will find a lot of trade employers like the road gangs, pipe layers, excavation, drainers are all small gangs. Most of the large companies use gangs of subbies which are made up of smaller gangs. Usually between 5-20 per gang they don't want the hassle of checking references in the UK, they usually only want 'Local Experience' or 'Australian Experience' which is a catch 22. Easier for them to say no come back when you have some local experience meaning when you have worked for one of the other gangs and you havnt f**ked up then you should be good because we will be checking. Sure you could always then pull out your photos so everyone could have a good laugh, It's not what you know but who you know.

 

The Irish are big into the excavation and pipe laying game here and there are thousands of them, digging holes and laying conduit, pipes, cable, drains, and form working services is their speciality. If you are not actually Irish it's very hard to get in to an Irish gang, lot of these guys will vouch and get their friends in and the local experience is not a problem ...as above it's the old story it not what you know but who you know.

 

I'm not saying its a total impossibility but reality in Australia is very different from sitting in the UK reading a couple of websites.

 

 

Sounds like you know your stuff amigo. But to be fair sounds exactly like the UK and I appreciate how stupid I would look pullin out some photos, but at the end of the day all my point was I'm a drainer in the UK.. And all I wanted to know was how to get my skills recognised. And your saying its a stupid idea to just land with a WHV an try to get assessed or sponsored, but yet in the next breathe I'm being told I wouldn't be able to get a sponsorship or anything whilst I'm in the UK which makes perfect sense. I wouldn't hire someone who's half a world away. When I've got a job there joe ill buy you a skooner

[Kinetic]

Sounds like you know your stuff amigo. But to be fair sounds exactly like the UK and I appreciate how stupid I would look pullin out some photos, but at the end of the day all my point was I'm a drainer in the UK.. And all I wanted to know was how to get my skills recognised. And your saying its a stupid idea to just land with a WHV an try to get assessed or sponsored, but yet in the next breathe I'm being told I wouldn't be able to get a sponsorship or anything whilst I'm in the UK which makes perfect sense. I wouldn't hire someone who's half a world away. When I've got a job there joe ill buy you a skooner

Stevieb, go for it, by the sounds of it, you will anyway! Good luck...hope it works out.

[Stevieb1483]

What's the LE & LS licenses for?

[Rupert]

The specialist skill that's attached to drainer, is sceptic tank installation. Which I have been "head drainer" on several projects in the UK the most significant been 2 extremely large tanks on an international airport, also 2 large tanks on the silverstone Grand Prix circuit... I've been putting foul and top water drainage in since i was 18, so yes I'm more than confident that I am HONEST about the skills I have, I'm very disappointed that you would question my integrity :mad:. I can appreciate the migration system has been abused by idiots who say they can do a job but can't... In the UK a "ground worker" is a drainer and civil operative all rolled into one once you have gained enough experience. So yes I am drainer and a lot more too. The only license I will need as far as what I have read would be a white card, and I have emailed the governments assessing bodies for several states. When they get back to me with a reply I will post back on here, in hope to help shed some light on this subject. Just simply because from all the legal requirements I've read, I'd be right in what I'm saying.

 

I understand where your coming from, but it sounds like you don't understand the construction industry as rule.

 

please don't take this as arrogance, as any info is greatly appreciated, be it positive or negative.

 

There is no need to bite people's heads off for trying to help you, I was up at 3am reading about the occupation you have suggested you want to apply under for no benefit of my own.

 

If I were to question your integrity, it would be worded a lot blunter than that. I have advised that you ensure that you read the occupation description and ensure that you are an excellent match because skills assessments are very hard to pass especially when you do not have the requisite qualifications. I have said this because not everyone does fit easily into an occupation code. If you interpret that as having your integrity questioned then you are paranoid.

 

And no I don't have any understanding of the construction industry and that is why I have not made any comments on the construction industry.

 

Perhaps you should see a migration agent, because if you are going to attack everyone that uses up their spare time to read up on your occupation to try and help you then your free help might dry up pretty quickly. Certainly, this source of free help now has.

[Stevieb1483]

Stevieb, go for it, by the sounds of it, you will anyway! Good luck...hope it works out.

 

I will be going for it :wink: just doing all the research while I save a wedge of dollars up. I came to Australia In 2002 on a 3 month holiday visa I love the country and the people I met.

[blossom]

I agree with rupert. Get a migration agent.

IF you can pass the skills assessment you would be much better off doing that from the uk, and if you can't pass it, well at least then you know before getting your hopes up.

As has been said, sponsorship will be just about impossible even if you are in oz and find a willing employer, not just from overseas. Believe me, I have been there and done that. It obviously is not what you want to hear, I wouldn't have done then either, but then I put myself through the most stressful five years of my life, retraining, getting turned down for sponsorship visas (more than once) as all the boxes couldn't be ticked. Then rules changing literally the week that I could apply for pr so that I couldn't any more. It just is not worth the toll it will take on your life.