Is it just me or the way Aussie works

[LizzyTinKnicks]

I'm not going to turn this into a slanging match on the OP because that's not fair, her standard of English is fine (and better than many!). It also wasn't the point of the thread.

 

Generally though, its not sloppy spelling or punctuation (we're all guilty of that!) which made me comment but fundamentals like mixing up past and present tenses - that sort of 'grammar' is important when writing.

 

Anyway, I'm not going to carry on going round in circles- I think what I've said is clear and there's no point me banging on and getting drawn into a pointless argument.

 

OP- hope you get some useful advice from this thread, and ignore the rest. Best of luck.

Edited June 19, 2013 by LizzyTinKnicks

[Chortlepuss]

I doubt the standard of English is the issue. As a consultant in Brisbane I spend a fair bit of my time fixing reports produced by high flying graduates... I suspect it is as others have said, local experience and if you're in Brisbane it's who you know, irrespective of suitability. I found feedback to be worth diddly squat - I was constantly told I didn't have enough experience with 20 years, including 6 Australian years of work in my field. One person who interviewed me had one month's experience - it's a joke! HR is a very competitive field, lots of people graduating annually with a tiny number of opportunities. Try not to beat yourself up about it - After being out of work for months in Bris, I got offered 2 roles without trying when I got back to the UK on holiday! Seems my skills are in demand here. Oz is starting to go thru a tough time and protectionism, end of financial year and upcoming election don't make things easier. Plenty of stories on here about people who have found work eventually - hope it works out for you, it's horrible being out of work.

[Skani]

Whatever Skani. This isn't a job interview is it? The OP wrote a post emotionally driven by sheer frustration at not being able to find a job and support her child.

 

I'm sure she didn't expect to invite an open season on her grammar and spelling, which by PIO standards, is in the top 5-10%. Not bad considering the vast majority are native English speakers, apparently.

 

It's not "whatever", Harpo. The OP clearly wrote:

 

Can someone help me to figure out what is going wrong here?

I am totally at a lost and I cannot think straight.

I am into HR Field and is there anything that I can do differently in order to secure a job.

Please help and any advice would be highly appreciated.

 

 

 

I can hear the sheer frustration. I can also hear the OP sincerely asking for "any advice". She is not saying "please give me any advice as long as it flatters my ego and tells me there is nothing wrong".

 

Whether her grammar and spelling are in the top 1% of "PIO standards" - whatever that is - is completely irrelevant.

It's whether it is detracting from her obtaining employment in her chosen field which is important.

I don't know. I don't know anything about her apart from what she has written. And "HR" can be used to cover a wide employment spectrum these days and what we both mean by "HR" may be very different.

 

But, if I think of something which, from my experience, may be helpful to this poor lady in her situation and may make a difference, I am not going to refrain from saying it because it's not "nice" to the sensitive ears of an Englishman.

 

You have frequently criticised Australia/ns for the "she'll be right attitude" and being afraid to rock the boat.

But you don't like it when they do.

[Skani]

I beg to differ, when I write on a forum my English, grammar, punctuation etc is rubbish, I know this as a fact. However, when dealing with business clients etc I take more time. Please don't judge the member by how she posts on the forum.

 

Yes...we are all slack when we write on a forum. But it was obvious to me that English wasn't the OP's first language.

I wasn't judging her at all :arghh:

I was commenting on whether it may be affecting her getting a job. WHICH IS WHAT SHE WAS ASKING.

[Skani]

Sorry OP, I genuinely think your written communication skills on this informal forum are fine. I'm sure they'd be up to scratch in a more formal setting.

 

OP: Just tell your next interviewers that harpodom on PIO says that everything is fine. That will get you the job, for sure. :wink:

[Skani]

Who's "she"? the cats mother?

 

please, a modicum of compassion wouldn't go amiss here.

 

I have more compassion than you could ever dream of, pal. Especially for people in the OP's situation.

"She" is the appropriate word to use for a poster who identified themselves as female.

[Skani]

Please help and any advice would be highly appreciated.

 

I'm just wondering if you have a Job Services Australia Provider?

And if you have had any contact with the Career Advice for Parents Service run by the Australian Government?

[simmo]

I have more compassion than you could ever dream of, pal. Especially for people in the OP's situation.

"She" is the appropriate word to use for a poster who identified themselves as female.

 

 

 

"She " "pal" ,,,,,, what next? Oi!.?

[Freckleface]

Hi, I am not from the UK so you guys are correct. Do you think that my english is not upto the standard? Your honest answer will be higly appreciated. Its just I know many who came from my country who has poor written english than me but doing very good jobs so I am just wondering what I do wrong to make it so difficult. To answer some of questions here, I always ask for feedback and most of the time what I get is ' i am over qualified for the job and there was someone who had more specific expereince etc'

 

so what am i to do

 

Hi Frustrated Mum

 

Often when two applicants are very similar employers need to look for anything that will separate them so they can determine which one will be offered the job.

 

You have identified English is not your first language. If your posts on this thread are a fair representation of your usual writing style it is entirely possible employers are seeing the small errors in tense etc as a point of difference between you and other applicants and marking your application down.

 

I think you will find it reasonably easy to fix with a little bit of help. If I was in your position I would approach the English as a second language teacher at your local primary school and ask if they can recommend somewhere to get some help. They may even have resources they would be willing to give you so that you can 'self help'.

 

I don't know if you could afford to undertake some interview coaching but you may find this helpful as well if you are being unsuccessful at this stage of the process.

 

I would also ask for honest feedback following any unsuccessful application. Some people will fob you off but it is worth asking for because every now and then you will come across someone who will provide you with helpful information - in the same way some members have tried to do on this thread.

 

Good luck

[flag of convenience]

I wasnt talking about the definition of 'best' for the job. I totally agree that often (and annoyingly) a job will go to someone that's not the best for the job, and who knows why. I've said that there are loads of subjective reasons outside the OPs control, but this one possible reason she can do something about, to eliminate any doubt that it might be playing a part in why she hasn't been getting anywhere.

 

'Professional work environment' in the OPs case, for me, would mean a director of a department coming to you becasue they want to know how to deal with an under performing employee, or someone who's put in a complaint about your recruitment procedure, or someone who's brought a grievance against their manager, or wants to know what their obligations to pay maternity are if the government reforms go through.... You need formal HR advice which might even need to stand up on court later on if it comes to it. For that you need a high standard of written English. Sorry if you disagree but this is how it works in my world.

 

I can give you a number of reasons why the best or second best etc may well not get the position. It's an area I can discuss in some depth, but here is not the place.

 

My main concern was to reassure the OP that it was likely nothing to do with her English that went against here. Most folk write and articulate better than on a forum. Goodness I should be condemned to a life of hard physical labour, if my spelling and structure was taken into account at times.

 

This is due entirely to typing faster than am comfortably capable of and laziness in checking the after result. Sometimes I'm on a foreign language forum between Poms in Oz and slaughter the structure in both languages.

 

In a work place environment hopefully I would fare better and as such I assume others must be not too dissimilar. I know folk with English as a second language that structure reports far superior to native English speakers but at times fall down on simple words or spelling if not aware.

[flag of convenience]

It is not difficult to deduce from the writing that the OP was not from a UK background. She confirmed this also.

It was not a case of someone deliberately being slack with grammar because its PIO, that is usually obvious too.

 

So rather than provide well meaning tangible advice, which the OP can use, some suggest that it is just bad luck and provide no help.

 

If the OP welcomes the feedback, who are you to repudiate it ?

 

I suspect the OP didn't rate her English being an issue until comments on here. Instead of stressing the English which is good, could there not be other issues that may be a stumbling block to success.

I would imagine the OP has got the English bit loud and clear by this point.

[frustrated mother]

OP I can relate to your feelings of being utterly disheartened - it took me long time to find even short term temp work despite great qualifications and lots of experience. I think it's just the way it is- recruiters prefer candidates with "local experience" so even if you've got everything but the kitchen sink (and more!) and are way better than other candidates, if you don't have "local" experience it's really tough.

 

To get that crucial 'local' experience, are you able to volunteer somewhere for a short period? Or ask if you can work shadow someone for, say, a day a week for a month to be able to put that on your cv? Again, doing a couple of short courses, attending lectures etc is all good advice. Are there any relevant professional MeetUp or similar groups in your area? Go along!

 

Also the dreaded networking is really really important. I loathe doing it at the best of times, but when you've faced rejection after rejection and your confidence is low it's awful. However you have to do it!

 

Start off with linked in, make your profile really good, join a number of groups relevant to your area of work/ city and make sure you start contributing to discussions. There are often job boards within groups with vacancies that you don't see elsewhere. Identify some companies you might like to work for and ask a key person whether you might be able to take them for coffee for 15 mins one day to ask about how they got to that place in their career and whether they have any advice (people are generally flattered and love to talk about themselves). It might not result in anything straightaway but you never know what seed you might plant. Also, craft a really good cover letter and cv and send it to companies (and a named individual within that company, not just "HR") on spec- if they have anything coming up they'll already have your info on file.

 

I hope that helps- wishing you the best of luck

 

Thanks for your comment. I have already looked into these areas and have stared to volunteering in one of the largest not for profit organisations and hoefully this will lead me somewhere.

[frustrated mother]

Also, whilst your written English is good (and i know its only an informal forum here, theres no need to take as much care as you would in a work situation its easy to be casual and sloppy here, so it might not reflect your 'actual' written english) I do think that it's not quite up to the standard I'd expect from a professional HR role. That's just my honest feedback, coming from someone who's had to use a second language before and knows how hard it is to do! You seem to have a few issues with tenses and use of singular/plurals which you might want to look at.

 

Have you had your cv/application forms/ cover letter proofread by a native speaker ? If not it might be worth doing just to make sure that that's not part of the reason you're not getting anywhere .

 

Yep I finally got a professional writer to help me with my resume. It costs money but felt it was a good idea rather than getting rejected like this.

[Skani]

"She " "pal" ,,,,,, what next? Oi!.?

 

Well, cobber...if you prefer.

[Skani]

Instead of stressing the English which is good, could there not be other issues that may be a stumbling block to success.

 

 

Yes, of course...there probably are. But we can only base advice on information given on a forum post. Hardly the ideal place for identifying problems and finding solutions.

[SimoneAL]

Not in Oz and but experience in looking for a job not being a native speaker.

 

From the feedback I have received over the years, I have realised the main reasons for not being successful with interviews had very little to do with my lamguage skills. Recruiters and employers like to choose positive, confident people. If you project an image of yourself as somenthing different that this, your chances to get the job immediately drop regardless your experience or how positive you really are outside the room.

 

Could this be the case?

Just a thought...

Being out of work with little kids did affect my confidence and ability to look positive, still working on it after years...

 

Best of luck.

Edited June 19, 2013 by SimoneAL

[Paul1Perth]

Hi, I am not from the UK so you guys are correct. Do you think that my english is not upto the standard? Your honest answer will be higly appreciated. Its just I know many who came from my country who has poor written english than me but doing very good jobs so I am just wondering what I do wrong to make it so difficult. To answer some of questions here, I always ask for feedback and most of the time what I get is ' i am over qualified for the job and there was someone who had more specific expereince etc'

 

so what am i to do

 

You can tell by the way you put your sentences together that you are not from an English background. Nothing much wrong with your writing and spelling, a lot better than a lot of English born and bred. If you are after a job in HR though it's going to be tough.

 

They would have to take into a account that you are a single Mum too and have commitments there.

[Paul1Perth]

Thanks Rupert and I know all what you tried to do is help. My spoken English is way better than written and some of Australians whom I meet in the train etc thinks I speak very good English and I do not have an accent. This is the biggest worry I have, as everywhere I go, (even the Job Agencies) they comment about how positive, cheerful and a calm personality that I have and I will be ideal for the job etc, and the moment I go for the interview with the employer I get rejected and someone else get the job. This is where I wonder where I am going wrong.

 

You can't be going too far wrong if you are getting to the interview stage. Something will turn up. You might be up against a lot of competition at each interview. Who knows what their reasons for not hiring you are but don't give up. Look for anything which will keep you ticking over. That's what a lot have to do, especially when they first arrive.

[Rupert]

Yep I finally got a professional writer to help me with my resume. It costs money but felt it was a good idea rather than getting rejected like this.

 

You come across well and seem to have a great attitude, if you are conveying this in meetings too, it will be just a matter of time. Apologies no other practical suggestions, but it is important to keep your spirits up and know that something always crops up.

[Skani]

Yep I finally got a professional writer to help me with my resume. It costs money but felt it was a good idea rather than getting rejected like this.

 

Your Job Services Australia provider and Career Advice for Parents Service should be able to help you with these for free. But I don't know how accessible these services are for you...depending where you live.

[Skani]

Thanks for your comment. I have already looked into these areas and have stared to volunteering in one of the largest not for profit organisations and hoefully this will lead me somewhere.

 

Good idea: hopefully you can make contacts which will be helpful. And it is usually easier to find a job when you are working than when you are not.

[frustrated mother]

Not in Oz and but experience in looking for a job not being a native speaker.

 

From the feedback I have received over the years, I have realised the main reasons for not being successful with interviews had very little to do with my lamguage skills. Recruiters and employers like to choose positive, confident people. If you project an image of yourself as somenthing different that this, your chances to get the job immediately drop regardless your experience or how positive you really are outside the room.

 

Could this be the case?

Just a thought...

Being out of work with little kids did affect my confidence and ability to look positive, still working on it after years...

 

Best of luck.

I think this plays a keyrole as well as I have met a few who have got very good job in Australia butdoes not speak very good English as per a native speaker. After getting soclosed to the final round and not getting the job has affected me a lot and Ithink that negativity and the fear kills me every time when I go for aninterview now.