Is Oz a better place to bring up children?

[caramac]

My kids have spent part of their childhoods in both countries (we're in the Uk atm) and I can't say there's much between the two places for teenagers/children really. I would agree that primary education is less target driven in Australia, but high school is pretty much the same, although I do hate that there is pressure from exams in the UK from year 9 onwards. My eldest is in year 13 now and is well and truly 'over' school! Her best friend in Sydney was the same at the end of last year though.

 

They have all taken part in Brownies, scouts, drama, lots of different sports (they have represented scouts and school in swimming and still take part in judo and horse riding), D of E, all of which are available in both countries. I would say that, in our experience the opportunities for foreign travel from schools is greater here. I've lost count of the number of exchanges we've done to Germany, Poland, Romania, Spain etc which have all been fairly inexpensive (£150 - £350) and two have done tours of Greece and the eldest went to Morocco for her D of E expedition. She did an exchange to Germany from her Australian school in year 9 which cost a fortune (although she had a great time!). She also had to be selected for it, whereas here anyone who wants to go, has had the opportunity. She's also just had a weeks work experience working in a dept store in Germany - it's all very doable from here. It does happen in Australia - our friends' daughter has just had three months in the USA, but it was much more expensive than all the ones we've done and, again she was one of only a small group.

 

I don't see much difference with the number of our girls' friends who still take part in sport. Some have carried on, others have stopped. In fact, the school that the girls were at in Perth did a sports exchange with the one they're at here, before we started here. My middle daughter's new UK friend had one of her Perth friends as her exchange partner! It's a small world really..

I also don't see the 'they grow up more slowly in Australia' thing either. Some of the girls here are really 'out there' at 14, but most aren't and it's the same in Australia - well, in Perth, Sydney and Melbourne anyway. One of the many reasons we took our lot out of their last Australian school was that the staff were more bothered by the girls' ribbons being the correct shade of navy than they were about the reports of year 9s giving 'favours' to boys in the station car park. Happens everywhere.

 

My oh is a psychiatrist who specialises in youth mental health and the same issues affect young people in both countries (and everywhere else, I imagine). The only difference he really notices is the level of anger is higher in the young people he sees in Australia. He's commented on it a few times, but doesn't know why it's the case. The demographic of his catchment areas are pretty similar.

I really think it comes down to what you want in life. Like the UK, Australia's cities are all different, so I don't think it comes down to a certain country, just finding your place in whichever country you choose. Your children can have a good life in both. I would move them while they're young enough and happy to adapt, though. It can be hard for some teenagers.

[Guest chris955]

I agree with all that Caramac, to be honest if it had been otherwise I wouldnt have bought our kids here.

[caramac]

Indeed. We wouldn't have come back if we'd really believed we were doing them a disservice. Although I did struggle with it for quite a while!

[rossendale]

My kids have spent part of their childhoods in both countries (we're in the Uk atm) and I can't say there's much between the two places for teenagers/children really. I would agree that primary education is less target driven in Australia, but high school is pretty much the same, although I do hate that there is pressure from exams in the UK from year 9 onwards. My eldest is in year 13 now and is well and truly 'over' school! Her best friend in Sydney was the same at the end of last year though.

 

They have all taken part in Brownies, scouts, drama, lots of different sports (they have represented scouts and school in swimming and still take part in judo and horse riding), D of E, all of which are available in both countries. I would say that, in our experience the opportunities for foreign travel from schools is greater here. I've lost count of the number of exchanges we've done to Germany, Poland, Romania, Spain etc which have all been fairly inexpensive (£150 - £350) and two have done tours of Greece and the eldest went to Morocco for her D of E expedition. She did an exchange to Germany from her Australian school in year 9 which cost a fortune (although she had a great time!). She also had to be selected for it, whereas here anyone who wants to go, has had the opportunity. She's also just had a weeks work experience working in a dept store in Germany - it's all very doable from here. It does happen in Australia - our friends' daughter has just had three months in the USA, but it was much more expensive than all the ones we've done and, again she was one of only a small group.

 

I don't see much difference with the number of our girls' friends who still take part in sport. Some have carried on, others have stopped. In fact, the school that the girls were at in Perth did a sports exchange with the one they're at here, before we started here. My middle daughter's new UK friend had one of her Perth friends as her exchange partner! It's a small world really..

I also don't see the 'they grow up more slowly in Australia' thing either. Some of the girls here are really 'out there' at 14, but most aren't and it's the same in Australia - well, in Perth, Sydney and Melbourne anyway. One of the many reasons we took our lot out of their last Australian school was that the staff were more bothered by the girls' ribbons being the correct shade of navy than they were about the reports of year 9s giving 'favours' to boys in the station car park. Happens everywhere.

 

My oh is a psychiatrist who specialises in youth mental health and the same issues affect young people in both countries (and everywhere else, I imagine). The only difference he really notices is the level of anger is higher in the young people he sees in Australia. He's commented on it a few times, but doesn't know why it's the case. The demographic of his catchment areas are pretty similar.

I really think it comes down to what you want in life. Like the UK, Australia's cities are all different, so I don't think it comes down to a certain country, just finding your place in whichever country you choose. Your children can have a good life in both. I would move them while they're young enough and happy to adapt, though. It can be hard for some teenagers.

 

 

Thank you for your insightful post.

[Jacaranda]

I grew up in Australia (spent 30 yrs there actually)and my kids are Australian,now aged 26 and 23.They were at primary in Australia until we moved to the UK,and were then aged 11 and 9.My kids did equally well in both places.They've both gone on to have really good careers.So to sum up,we are all very happy with the way things turned out.My kids had disruptive kids in their classes in both countries,as did I.

[rossendale]

Melza and caramac, do you think your children are more resilient because they made the move to Oz and the subsequent return to UK?

[Jacaranda]

Yes I personally feel they are.When we moved to the UK,I thought maybe when they grew up,they would more than likely head back to Australia,but both are very settled here,and I find that abit surprising.Not because there is anything wrong with the UK,but just because I thought Australia for both of them would be considered "home".Their lives have been alot different to their friends they left behind in Australia.My kids have had a nice advantage that they have travelled alot,and been in the hub of everything,whereas their friends might have managed a trip up the river for a long weekend or something similar.There's nothing wrong with doing that either,I myself used to do it before we moved here.Its just different.My kids enjoyed both schools in both countries,as did I.(I did my first 8 yrs in the UK before emigrating to Australia)

[caramac]

They are certainly very adaptable and flexible! They're 18, 16 and 14 now and have moved house so many times in their lives. None of them can imagine being in one place all their childhoods. They are all very tolerant of differences - not just between people, but the way things work in different places - cities, schools and countries!

They're all confident to put themselves in unfamiliar situations because they know they can cope with change. I have worried about them and did apologise to our eldest when I knew we were going to have to make this last move a couple of years ago, saying I just wished we could give them some stability. She simply said that their stability comes from us as a family, not where we live.

Our middle one moved to her present school in the middle of her GCSE courses. Every exam board was different and some courses she had to do in a single year. Her teachers said she walked in on the first day as though she'd always been there. She's a confident person anyway, but I think part of it was that she's so used to, and not worried about, change. She's planning on going back to Aus for uni and not fazed by the fact that she'll be there, at least initially, without us.

It also seems to helped the eldest with her personal statement for uni which her teachers said really stood out due partly to the amount of travel and moves she's done because she has more of a global perspective on life.

It can be a very positive thing - that's the message we've always tried to give them.

[tea4too]

Is part of the difference that australian teenagers continue to participate in outdoor activities as a cultural thing or does early teen complacency kick in when they get to high school just like in the UK?

Does staying on until 18 have a more positive impact?

 

Is this true, rossendale? Genuine question, as I agree that it is probably a widely held perception but tbh I’m not sure how real it is. Like Caramac (post 26) my own child and her friends don’t fit the description as they are busy with after school clubs, orchestra, cadets, and Duke of Edinburgh. There are loads of things for UK children to get involved in, and tens of thousands of them do on a regular basis. I think numbers in the Scouts are at a record high, and Duke of Edinburgh awards continue to rise year on year.

 

 

I know a lot depends on the child, who they mix with, the school and where they live. But tbh I do find it a bit sad that all the hard working, well adjusted happy kids in the UK seem to be regularly overlooked, especially as ime there are a lot of them about! Just my personal view. Tx

[northernbird]

I would agree, I see newly arrived english primary kids and they are so namby pamby it's unreal. If the parents have lived in the same place all their lives they are usually equally as namby pamby.

[caramac]

I would agree, I see newly arrived english primary kids and they are so namby pamby it's unreal. If the parents have lived in the same place all their lives they are usually equally as namby pamby.

 

 

That's quite sad. My eldest was 5 when we first went to Perth and her PP teacher said similar things about her. She wasn't as she described. She had just been taken, two weeks previously, from everything and everybody she'd ever known and was just quietly watching and working out how things worked and where she fitted in in the group. The teacher blamed the fact she'd been in the UK education system, which was wrong - she hadn't even started school. It's a bit sad if children are expected to cope fully with the impact of such a huge move. They need time to settle and find their feet. They may well be quiet and reserved and teary at times.

[rossendale]

The majority of the children I teach are wonderful. Their rep is put into disrepute by a small minority.

There is a pattern. Pupils come in Year 7 eager and enthusiastic but as Year 7 ends and pupils go into Year 8 the number of pupils still involved in sport, D of E, scouts etc falls.

Those who do continue are usually supported and encouraged by their families to do so.

On the other hand, despite fabulous parents, a lot of my students still see drinking, smoking etc as necessary to be accepted by their peers.

I'm a firm believer in boredom making work for idle hands. I think a broad range of interests with a variety of friendships groups (friendships are volatile) is the key.

Area and school matters but good parenting is paramount.

[bunbury61]

I am a high school teacher and parent of three young children 6, 4 and 3.

I know children grow up very quickly these days. The state education system in UK is very target driven.

Schools will go to great lengths to ensure pupils achieve their target grades. Some go too far and to be honest pupils leave school ill equipped to study independently.

Is Australia a better place for kids to be teenagers?

 

 

 

 

Hand on heart ......depending on where you live in the u.k , and where you intend to live in oz ......i would say for young children Australia is better ......but you wouldnt move your kids from the cotswolds to a town in the outback , would you .....its all area dependent .

Bunbury was a fantastic place for young children

[Guest chris955]

That's quite sad. My eldest was 5 when we first went to Perth and her PP teacher said similar things about her. She wasn't as she described. She had just been taken, two weeks previously, from everything and everybody she'd ever known and was just quietly watching and working out how things worked and where she fitted in in the group. The teacher blamed the fact she'd been in the UK education system, which was wrong - she hadn't even started school. It's a bit sad if children are expected to cope fully with the impact of such a huge move. They need time to settle and find their feet. They may well be quiet and reserved and teary at times.

 

Absolutely, you cant blame the education system for kids being out of sorts after such a huge move, its ridiculous. All kids are different, all schools are different.

[memmymooch]

The kids that we saw whilst over last year in Melbourne in a variety of settings just seemed well more kid like than the ones of that age here especially the girls, the 11/12 year olds in my sons year way too ahead of themselves and my 7 year old was described as a slow bird by some older kids on the street as she doesn't know all there is to know about sex. Too much too young here.

[caramac]

The kids that we saw whilst over last year in Melbourne in a variety of settings just seemed well more kid like than the ones of that age here especially the girls, the 11/12 year olds in my sons year way too ahead of themselves and my 7 year old was described as a slow bird by some older kids on the street as she doesn't know all there is to know about sex. Too much too young here.

 

It depends on the kids. I know people who let their 14 year olds sleep with their boy/girlfriends in Melbourne and I remember coming back to a friend's house in Perth with my young girls to find their 13 year old son with his hands in his equally youthful female partner's pants. He had his own stock of condoms too. Girls at my daughters' school were quite well known for shouting about their conquests on the train into school in the morning too - 'I had xxx last night'. Reply, 'Oh, I had him last week. Not much good is he?'. Year 9. I'm truly not making it up. It happens everywhere

[Rupert]

I would say it is better. I grew up in Australia and turned out great my cousins who remained in telford all had kids at crazy young age and have been on benefits all their life.

 

school like u say is a lot less presure no silly league tables no ostead no contstant exams. no gsce no 11 plus or what ever its called. only exams I ever took that mattered were final year of school when I was 18

 

This is hardly a scientific sample though is it? And completely illogical. I went to school in UK and I turned out great, however I know there is somebody my age in prison in Australia so they didn't turn out so great. Can I therefore conclude that UK is great place to bring somebody up and Australia is not? No of course not.

 

Having said that, my and the OH often remark upon how polite and well brought up we find school children in Australia. We only come across them on the bus really but they are always so polite and well behaved.

[Quoll]

Nope not better, just different. High rates of youth suicide and mental health problems in Australia indicate that it is not the paradise that many would like to think it is for Aussie youngsters. Most young Aussies can't wait to leave Australia when their time in school/uni is done. As for the "outdoor lifestyle" thing - Aussie teens are just as likely to trawl the malls, smoke dope from an early age, look like Madonna on a bad day at their yr6 formals and spend an inordinate amount of time on their wiis. Bullying is rife in Australian schools.

 

Personally I don't think they grow up any better rounded or skilled or outdoorsy from growing up in Australia - mine, who did, compare pretty much the same as those of my friends who grew up in UK. Although I do have one drop out who thinks he is preparing for a self sufficient life with his family against the apocalypse - he'd have been a far more productive individual in UK I am sure but he probably wouldn't have been shooting and butchering his own kangaroos LOL (can't blame Australia for that I suppose but it would be harder if he lived in Guilford rather than Gippsland)

 

On the politeness front - I have had more young people stand up and offer me a seat here in UK than I ever did in Aus and, as yet I have not been on a bus here where the driver has had to stop and eject young people because of their singular lack of acceptable adjectives (when every second word starts with F it does get a tad offensive) but I am sure there must be some parts of the country where that might occur but it did happen to me in Canberra (nice middle class Canberra!)