Sapphire Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Im posting this hoping that theres someone out there who is great with Employment law and can give some advice My friends Son started work in the UK, for a furniture company last september There was a low basic and the wages were made up with commission,,1% of sales For the first 12 weeks the company guaranteed an extra 100 pounds a week for commission, until he could start getting commission,after items he sold were delivered (that is when commission was paid) After he had been receiving this payment for a few weeks the company made him sign a form saying this commission was repayable if he left,which he though was a bit odd, but being young, he signed it Anyway,it was an awful place to work, and he was the only white member of staff, and constantly refferred to as "White boy" and various other remarks He was never allowed to sell much, as he and other members of stff, were kept off the shop floor by one of the managers,who of course earnt vast amounts of commission, as she had all the customers to herself.Some of the stuff that went on in there was really bad, and they would take his commission and give it to other people ,,,saying he had not "dusted his tables" so they were taking his commission away,,,it was unreal Over christmas and New Year, he was forced to work from 8am-8pm, for 12 days straight, and was told there would be no extra pay for all these hours,,,albeit, I think someone did contact someone, and all the staff did receive wages for working these extra hours Eventually in Januray he made a formal compliant to HR, about the racist remarks, which was brushed under the carpet, and his life was made hell at work, constantly being picked on, and told he was going to get sacked Last week the Regional manager came in and told him, he was terminating his contract, as he had "no ability to sell".He tried to explain, but to no avail This week he receives a letter from them Basically saying His probabtion period was 12 months Telling him, he owes the company 1200pounds This is for guaranteed commission,that they paid him Overpayment of wages in January (looks like they are saying for the extra hours he worked, and they paid him,,they want that back) sickness??????? They say they owe him a week in leiu, and holiday pay of 702pounds, which they have deducted from the 1200 he owes them so they want him to pay them 497.21 Can anyone help on this,,,,it stinks,,,,but Im not sure what to advise.They have 100's in commisssion payments, that he will never get, as the items he sold are delivered after he has left, so he will never be paid all that money either Ive said to go to citizens advice as a starting point, but I was hoping someone on PIO, would be knowledgeable, and maybe able to help This is a rotton company,,,they seem to do what they like. No wonder they have a massive staff turnover Im pretty sure this is illegal, but I dont know where to start He now has no job and has had to sign on,has rent to pay,so this is not good Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I'm no expert sorry, but I would be threatening this company with discrimination http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/ResolvingWorkplaceDisputes/DiscriminationAtWork/DG_10026557 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Thanks Kate,,,it stinks doesant it??? I will check out that link and pass it on All help on this one is great Hes been given till the 22nd March to pay them the money they want,,,of course, he hasent got it, and they need to be stopped and made to pay him what he is due,,,I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Thanks Kate,,,it stinks doesant it???I will check out that link and pass it on All help on this one is great Hes been given till the 22nd March to pay them the money they want,,,of course, he hasent got it, and they need to be stopped and made to pay him what he is due,,,I think It does stink and I think if threatened they will back down, also threaten them with going to the newspapers it won't do their business any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest31881 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I would suggest he visits the nearest "Citizens advice Bureau" they will be able to advise and get proper legal advice if needed, I would think he had a good case to threaten them with action for withholding his money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 No they wont want bad press, they are a big sofa company .He had witnesses to the white boy comments, but of course they wont say anything, or they will be "out" I checked out that link, and there is some great stuff on there, I have just passed on a whole load of legal help numbers I just dont want to see him get chased by debt collectors, plus they owe him a whole heap of money for week in leiu and holiday pay Thank you so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tickled Pink Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I think he (and maybe you) should get yourself to Citizens Advise ASAP. The issue could be that he signed a contract, which if leagally binding could cause him problems. Did he put the formal complaint to HR in writing and keep a copy? Has be kept a copy of his employment contract? and all payslips - including his P45? The other thing worth looking in to is that if he is a very low, or no wage earner he could be entitled to leagal aid. Citizens Advise would be able to let you know where to find these people. The main thing is, do not sit on this problem, forwarned is forearmed. Find out what his rights are. Coming on here may be a great way of getting a bit of support, and getting things off your chest, but you need to get proper, reliable advise. What you get on here may only be opinions etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Im in Oz, and he is in the UK, as I would be the first one to help out ,thats why Im hoping you guys can give me some up to date legislation and advice Yes he did put the complaint in writing and kept a copy so he all good there hopefully Thats the problem, with some of these contracts,,,its whether its deemed unreasonable or not I suppose, and the fact that they got him to sign in several weeks after he had been getting paid this commission,without being told this was how it worked But I still do not know if they can legally even do that??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tickled Pink Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Get him to go to CAB sharpish. If they don't know how to best move forward they are likely to know people that do. Do you have any family members there that can support him in person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tickled Pink Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Probably the other thing I would advise him to do is to take no phonecalls from them or engage in any face to face conversations (if they are trying to contact him), keep all correspondance in writing, keep copies of it all. Emails are now considered as legally permissable, so any that are sent can be used as 'evidence' if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilraenH Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1461 Employment rights organisation in England & Wales should be able to advise. There may be Equality issues too in relation to the companies failure to fulfil their legislative requirement to uphold equality legislation there is a tab on the ACAS site. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Thats worth knowing, about emails Ive told him not to answer calls, so hopefully he wont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 no-one who is very clued up,,,Im the one who everyone turns to , and of course Im 10,000 miles away!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKC Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Again, I am no expert, but aside from the racist thing (which is not allowable at all), he may have a case for constructive dismissal if there is any possibility that his working life was made difficult with the express purpose of sacking him. My oh was constructively dismissed years ago, and because we could prove that his bosses actions had led directly to the fact that he wasn't working as well which ultimately led to her sacking him, we could prove that she had planned this all along. She basically wanted him to work for her as a stop gap over Christmas and until someone else (who had to give three months notice - hubby was sacked on the last day of three months working for her which was a huge coincidence) could start working for her. It sounds very much like they wanted someone just over Christmas to do the extra hours. I would definitely advise him to contact CAB, advise him to tell them that all future contact should be through email or via letters, and for him to make note about what happened and when in as much detail as possible and to take that, along with any other evidence such as time sheets, pay slips etc when he goes to see CAB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tickled Pink Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Was he on a probationary period? In the current work area I'm in employment contracts as standard have a probationary period which works both ways. What I mean by this is that, for example, the period is 6 months, this means at any time in this 6 month probationary period if either the employer or employee decide the job is not working out they are allowed to walk away, or be asked to leave, with no further repercussions to either party. Now the problem here is that if he signed a new contract a few weeks after starting (and signing the intial one) this contract will superseed the first one. Second issue may be that it sounds as though he was in effect (justly or unjustly) sacked, which may invalidate the conditions of the contract. To be honest, it doesn't always matter if the family member on the ground is clued up or not, having a person sat next to him at the CAB may be helpful. If only from the perspective that they will also hear the advise etc given, and will likely pick up things, or understand things a little differently to your son. It gives him someone to talk to about what is happening and to talk the advise given through with. It's hard being this far away as I get the feeling that if you were there you would be giving this company a hard time on his behalf, and dragging your son to any legal body that would listen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Again, I am no expert, but aside from the racist thing (which is not allowable at all), he may have a case for constructive dismissal if there is any possibility that his working life was made difficult with the express purpose of sacking him. My oh was constructively dismissed years ago, and because we could prove that his bosses actions had led directly to the fact that he wasn't working as well which ultimately led to her sacking him, we could prove that she had planned this all along. She basically wanted him to work for her as a stop gap over Christmas and until someone else (who had to give three months notice - hubby was sacked on the last day of three months working for her which was a huge coincidence) could start working for her. It sounds very much like they wanted someone just over Christmas to do the extra hours. I would definitely advise him to contact CAB, advise him to tell them that all future contact should be through email or via letters, and for him to make note about what happened and when in as much detail as possible and to take that, along with any other evidence such as time sheets, pay slips etc when he goes to see CAB. He had only been with them since September,would that be long enough,to claim Constructive dismissal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Probably the other thing I would advise him to do is to take no phonecalls from them or engage in any face to face conversations (if they are trying to contact him), keep all correspondance in writing, keep copies of it all. Emails are now considered as legally permissable, so any that are sent can be used as 'evidence' if needed. Sound advice. Athough management is increasingly aware of this in most organisations resulting in it getting harder to pin them down .Many don't answer. For future referrance in these situations I would suggest the person makes a complete written account be kept, given time,date,place,person involved, incident describtion and any relivant details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hi Tickled Pink He only signed 1 employment contract, but they made him sign a seperate document about the guranteed 100 pounds commission,a few weeks after he started, saying they had forgotton to get him to sign it when he started with them His probabation period was 1 year,,which I have not heard of before, seems a long one Mmmm they said they were "terminating his contract", which Yes I would really take as being sacked He has a girlfriend and her family there who will be very supportive, so Im sure he will be fine in that respect and get lots of support They have been shocked at how this company have been, with working hours etc,,,61 hours a week over the christmas and New Year, 12 straight days.But thats legal, I checked that ,and was shocked at that one He is my friends Son, and he is best friends with my Son. I always get everyones dilemmas,,because they know I hate this sort of injustice and try to help Times like this, I wish I was there though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorgon Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hi Sapphire The recommendation that your friend's son should go to the Citizens Advice Bureau is a good one. Or there may be a legal advice centre nearby which may be able to help. As for the wages and commission arrangement, it sounds as though his basic wage may have been below the minimum wage (the rate of this would depend on his age), and the "guaranteed" commission was a way to make up for this deficit. Of course if this was the case, then it is wrong to claw back this top-up. If there are any deductions from his final pay packet to which he has not agreed in writing beforehand, then these are not permitted and he would be able to claim these back. Not being paid over Christmas, when everyone else was, may be a deduction from wages which can be claimed from the employer. It does not seem likely that he was given written particulars of employment. Where an employer failed to do this the employee can claim two or four weeks wages in compensation if it is linked to another claim. As for the racist remarks, this would appear to give your friend's son a right to make a claim for race discrimination in the Employment Tribunal. It is possible that he was shut out from earning commission because of his race, which would also be discrimination. As would being sacked. However, it is possible that he was sacked not because of his race but because he made a complaint about the remarks or being shut out from earning commission, in which case this is victimisation which is another claim which he can make. These are all claims under the Equality Act 2010. Of course if he was sacked because he was a bad worker or for other reasons which your friend is not aware of, then he would lose this claim. Your friend's son would have no claim for unfair dismissal because he would need to have been working there for a year for this to apply (soon to increase to two years). There are exceptions to this, but I don't think any such exception applies in this case. The reference to "probation period" has no real meaning or effect in law. It makes no difference to the legal rights and obligations. When someone complains about things such as racist remarks or being shut out from earnings commission, this is a grievance which the employers are obliged to treat seriously by investigating and holding meetings etc. If they don't do this, then any award for compensation can be increased by up to 25%. Starting a claim in the Employment Tribunal is currently free, although the government will be changing this soon. If your friend's son can't find a Citizens Advice Bureau or legal advice centre to help, there are solicitors who will present a case on a "non win no fee" basis. Your friend's son should be aware that there is a 3 month time limit to go to the Employment Tribunal from the time of the event complained of. He needs to act quickly because some complaints go back some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebourvellec Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 ACAS are the people that he needs to speak to. They will give,advice over phone and they are the ones who deal with employment tribunals. I took an employer to tribunal when i was 22 for constructive dissmissal and sexual discrimination. I had no win no fee solicitor- my case was settled night before tribunal. ACAS were alot of help to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hi Sapphire The recommendation that your friend's son should go to the Citizens Advice Bureau is a good one. Or there may be a legal advice centre nearby which may be able to help. As for the wages and commission arrangement, it sounds as though his basic wage may have been below the minimum wage (the rate of this would depend on his age), and the "guaranteed" commission was a way to make up for this deficit. Of course if this was the case, then it is wrong to claw back this top-up. If there are any deductions from his final pay packet to which he has not agreed in writing beforehand, then these are not permitted and he would be able to claim these back. Not being paid over Christmas, when everyone else was, may be a deduction from wages which can be claimed from the employer. It does not seem likely that he was given written particulars of employment. Where an employer failed to do this the employee can claim two or four weeks wages in compensation if it is linked to another claim. As for the racist remarks, this would appear to give your friend's son a right to make a claim for race discrimination in the Employment Tribunal. It is possible that he was shut out from earning commission because of his race, which would also be discrimination. As would being sacked. However, it is possible that he was sacked not because of his race but because he made a complaint about the remarks or being shut out from earning commission, in which case this is victimisation which is another claim which he can make. These are all claims under the Equality Act 2010. Of course if he was sacked because he was a bad worker or for other reasons which your friend is not aware of, then he would lose this claim. Your friend's son would have no claim for unfair dismissal because he would need to have been working there for a year for this to apply (soon to increase to two years). There are exceptions to this, but I don't think any such exception applies in this case. The reference to "probation period" has no real meaning or effect in law. It makes no difference to the legal rights and obligations. When someone complains about things such as racist remarks or being shut out from earnings commission, this is a grievance which the employers are obliged to treat seriously by investigating and holding meetings etc. If they don't do this, then any award for compensation can be increased by up to 25%. Starting a claim in the Employment Tribunal is currently free, although the government will be changing this soon. If your friend's son can't find a Citizens Advice Bureau or legal advice centre to help, there are solicitors who will present a case on a "non win no fee" basis. Your friend's son should be aware that there is a 3 month time limit to go to the Employment Tribunal from the time of the event complained of. He needs to act quickly because some complaints go back some time. Thank you, thats fantastic help He was a good worker, he has been a top sales guy in all his previous jobs and has glowing referneces from past employers to prove this. He has won all sorts of awards, so they could never say he was a poor worker(although Im sure they would try) He was shut out from day 1, and I think it was because of his race.The manager said, he had to have a "white boy " in the store, which initally he dismissed, but then he started to see the remark for what it was, once it had been said on a regular basis by both the manager and assistant manager It was the assistant manager that would send him off moving stock, so as she could stand at the door and pounce on customers Even if he got a customer, she would go over and say(in front of the customer), this wont be your sale,because you havent dusted your tables!!!,,or afterwards, say "oh such and such spoke to them weeks ago, so they will get the commisssion from that sale" He was looking for another job, but with working such long hours, it was really difficult You know hes not even really that bothered about the racist thing(I know he should be), its more for the fact that they have kept all his money and say he owes them Hes had to "sign on " today, and he is pretty cheesed off about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HeywoodMonkey Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Seriously get to the citizens advice they will surely point you in the right direction then for good measure contact the department of immigration i'm sure they would like a nosey around the place from the sounds of it. Sorry i can't be anymore helpful with this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tickled Pink Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Let us know how it goes will you Sapphire? I hope some of the advise on here has been helpful. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Dont bother with Citizens advice because they will ring Acas for the advice ring Acas helpline and they will be able to help. I used to work for them in the UK. You may have trouble taking this any further if he didnt write any written grievances before he left so you do need proper help now. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 I sure will, hes off to try and get it all sorted.Thanks to all of your for your advice, I knew I could rely on all of you guys and get some help All advice is greatly welcomed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.