Limit of dog/cat numbers at a property - Discuss :)

[Guest]

There have been numerous threads where this issue has cropped up on here. I was talking with my husband about the regs on a limit to number of dogs/cats at a property etc. He shrugged his shoulders and said Australia wasn't like the UK in terms of dog ownership. We are 'dog mad' over here and the Aussie culture isn't like that. He didn't say it being mean or uncaring, just that is what he has grown up with and is used to and what is the norm in the UK isn't in Aus.

 

I guess I can see where he is coming from. Many dogs live outside in Aus, kennel in the yard type thing. Some never go in the house. I found this weird to get my head round, having a family pet but it not living as part of the family, but it does seem very accepted over in Aus. In the UK we are usually shocked if people admit to keeping their dog outdoors (I also think our colder winters mean we consider it cruel to do this) and most pet dogs live in the house in some shape or form (confined to downstairs only, or a couple or rooms or even the run of the house).

 

I've known many working dogs live outside all year round here in the UK. Kenneled, well cared for but not kept in the house. They survived our winters. Is it so bad to think a dog will be more expected to live outside in Aus? Or that we dog owners are told we can only keep X amount of dogs at a house. In the UK some people I know keep 4, 5 or 6 even in one house with no by laws or regulations to tell them otherwise.

 

All the people I know in Aus that have dogs, out of all of them, only one has a dog that lives inside the house. The rest are all outside dogs, with the odd one allowed in the family room or kitchen and utility. I never thought of them as much a part of the family but they were certainly not deprived or uncared for nor I think unhappy. Even the Aussie relatives when talking about getting a dog said about it living outside and didn't think much of my having a dog to live as part of the family in the house viewpoint :nah:

 

Do we need to be prepared to adjust to the Aussie approach of dog keeping once in Aus or continue being British and having house dogs and wanting to own more than two perhaps? Also things like specific dog parks to exercise a dog in Aus, which we don't have in the UK mean dog walking may not be what it was in the UK.

 

Personally I feel its rather restrictive to be told you can only keep two dogs and need a licence to have more but on the other hand it hopefully stops people having too many animals and not being able to care for them or afford them. Also I am used to having two or more dogs in our house (most we had was 7 at one point) and I love a houseful of doglets lounging around. But saying that, in Aus I'd probably not want more than one or two simply because of the climate, the more outdoor living and the restrictions for dog walking in parks and so on that are often in place. It would also reflect in the kind of dog we would have there. We'd certainly not be looking for a dog that required lots of long walks or was high energy as we have had in the past. We'd be looking for something that would cope well with lead walks, dog parks and shorter walks.

 

I don't think there is a right or wrong in all of this, just differences. It's how we go about finding a solution or a way of making it work for us as individuals. Hrm, a bit of a ramble but I'd like to know peoples thoughts and/or experiences on this one.

 

:biggrin:

[Petals]

I believe that more people have their dogs inside than kept outside in Aus. We kept ours inside, my friend keeps her retrievers inside. My neighbour's have their dogs inside.

 

There are more restrictions on dogs here, for example in the summer you cannot take dogs to a beach in Victoria after 9 am.This is in the warmer months. Dogs cannot go in shops or pubs apart from a guide dog.

 

If a dog is entire then the registration fee is much more than a dog who is not entire.

 

On a residential block 2 dogs would be the norm and you would have to have a special permit to have more. Neighbours would be informed of your request and it would be unlikely to succeed. Noise factor, people are hot to trot on reporting barking dogs to the council.

 

We have designated areas where dog breeders can breed dogs and have kennels. These are usually rural large properties.

 

I never see a dog on the street unattended these days, despite that we still have terrible things happen with dogs as has just happened here with the loss of a little girl.

 

Council fines are stiff for dogs at large and having an unregistered dog.

 

Cats also have to be registered in Victoria and they are not allowed to roam at night. They have to be contained to our property 24 hours a day. This causes neighbours to call for a cat trap if they are of the nasty persuasion non cat loving type.

 

Years ago we used to see dogs running around all over the place and I believe the laws as they are now have worked and made it better for everyone.

 

About dogs though I am allowed to have 3 cats and 2 dogs or the other way around but that is because I live on acreage property.

[lynn22]

Well my dogs are restricted mainly to utility/kitchen/family/dining room. This is mainly because Maxy has never learned how to use a stairs & isnt keen on doing so... he really doesnt want to try. This is because he spent the first 3 years & 11 months of his life in kennels as he was a racing dog.

 

he doesnt get through to the lounge as we rarely use it & if he does get in he see's it as unchartered territory & would like to try & stamp his mark :mad:

 

I have already muttered to the other half if we get a house in oz with no stairs then Maxy bear could come & sleep through with us :yes::wubclub: but he muttered something back about there being enough with ginger assed skank bag :frown:(his affectionate way of saying cody our cat who sleeps under the duvet between us most nights)

 

Does anyone know how much this registration is & how much more its likely to be for an entire dog ? Maxy bear has all his bits intact & i've no intention of removing them unless I deem it necessary.

[Tulip]

I must say that when I visited Aus I was quite shocked.

 

First of all, the dogs riding in the back of a truck, on a chain. You would never see that here, even with Collies; dogs are like family members and ride in the front seat.

 

Second of all, the puppies in shops...I'm a breeder, and thus, extremely conscious of bringing in more lives into the world than could be homed. So I found myself shaking with rage when I saw so many puppies for sale in shops; no reputable breeder would sell their pups in a shop, where they couldn't vet the owner, and it makes dogs disposable when people can just go buy one off a shelf instead of waiting for a few months for a fifteen year commitment.

 

Third of all, the amount of dogs we saw each day that were never allowed inside. There was shade, and water, and they were obviously ok, but some we saw were clearly distressed and I'm sure would have been happier indoors!

 

Fourthly, the restrictions of numbers of dogs. I'll now just be taking two with me and not getting another this year as planned, because it's much easier for them when shipping (Crated together, kenneled together), but I know you can only keep two on a 600xm property (I think), so that's ok. I would like another when I get out there so might apply.

 

I'm a groomer, and it does worry me that work will be slower in a country that care a little less about their dogs. However, I do like that it will give me more creativity; in England, you get dogs that need a practical cut because it's always raining/muddy, etc. but I've heard that in Aus and NZ, people are more into the style of it and would appreciate things like bows, etc., that I put on clients dogs at the moment.

[Petals]

Sorry Tulip I just do not get it. Aussies love dogs and most dogs are inside dogs. What the new laws has done here is to make larger dogs less desirable than the small fluffy ones and there are many many many small fluffy maltese cross type dogs. We had one a bichonxmaltese. Unfortunately she passed on as dogs do.

 

As for grooming I had two long haired dogs and had to have a standing appointment at my groomer to get an appointment. Just like the good hairdresser, the good groomers are in high demand here. Everyone has a smart white little dog.

 

Dogs have to be restrained on the back of utes these days so the time of dogs jumping around has long gone. The dogs on back of utes are working dogs, they go to work with the tradies and guard their tools. People do have a penchant for pinching the tradies tools and trailers so they all have a largish dog with them.

 

Animal welfare is big here in Aus hence the problems with exporting live sheep and cattle.

 

However we do treat our dogs as "dogs" not little humans as that way lies madness.

[PositivePixie]

If you think about it sensibly - why do we have the idea dogs should be inside houses in the UK? Because the weather is minging year round, and we have bred very domesticated dogs as pets that aren't as hardy as working dogs. I know many many families in the UK that the dog lives outside and ride in the back of the pickup/landrover/tractor and so on - farming dogs that are working dogs not pets. I would wager the Aussie dogs that are in the back of utes are the same.

 

I haven't been to Australia and seen the dog care in action, but from what I've read about the regulations and what people have said to me, I don't think its that they don't care about their dogs (Spain - there's a country that doesn't give two hoots about their animals - the number of puppies my parents have seen thrown from moving cars, especially on the motorway, and killed is awful), but they just have a different way of looking after them etc. The weather is less pouring with horizontal rain and mitheringly cold in Australia, so its not the same with them being outside, as long as they have access to shade and water. Dogs are not humans. They do not have the same concept of 'being inside the house' as us. In fact, you could argue its kinda to keep them outside on the reasoning that they are pack animals and by denying them access to somewhere that the rest of the 'pack' are allowed it shows them clearly their place in the pack and makes it less confusing for them - in a way we give our dogs in the UK very mixed messages in this way and then get all upset when they do something we deem to be 'wrong'. At the end of the day, a dog is an animal, not a human.

 

IMHO, the fact that they have to be registered and there is are rules such as limits to how many shows they care a great deal, both about the dogs and about how the live in a human world.

[calNgary]

Tulip,,,

You will get a shock,lol

I have seen MORE dog groomers here with their little trailers on the back than i did ever in the UK. Grooming is taken seriously 2 of my friends are groomers and works 6 days non stop. The doggy washes help with tick prevention etc so are very popular.

 

You do see lots of dogs on the back of tradie utes, they are there for numerous reasons, the main being a gaurd dog against the tradies tools on the back, remmebr in the UK most tradies have vans you can lock up, the back of a ute is open. Also most utes have 2 seats so with a tradie and his mate there is no room inside the vehicle for the dog.

 

There is alot of acerage where we live and lots of dogs are left outside during the day,most come in at night, i cant say i have ever seen a distressed dog around here as they seem to love the freedom of running around in all that space.

 

As a doggy foster carer i too detest the selling of animals in shops, it is something i have had a 'bug bear' about since i arrived ,however i do notice even the shops are now backing off a little and many don't seem to have the amount of animals for sale that they used to. BUT imo back street breeders are the same as the shops, they dont really care what happens to the pups as long as they get the cash.

 

I agree with the dog licencing here, a 600sqmtr plot with a house and shed on doesnt leave much leg strecthing space for 3 dogs really.i remember looking at house on a similar sized plot when we arrived and the 'garden' was about as big as laundry room!!!! Definately no room left for a pooch to run around.

 

I personally think dogs are well catered for here, good licencing procedures with councils, lots of dog parks and plenty dog off leash beaches scattered around.There is too much wildlife that could be threatened by strays so some order HAS to be kept, and going by the few strays you see it must work.

 

Cal x

[Skani]

 

Does anyone know how much this registration is & how much more its likely to be for an entire dog ? Maxy bear has all his bits intact & i've no intention of removing them unless I deem it necessary.

 

Hi Lynn,

 

It will depend where you live because dog registration is a local council matter. But, as an example, our council charges $80 a year for an entire dog and $35 p.a. for a sterilised one (with veterinary certificate required as proof).

[Guest bluzee]

There have been numerous threads where this issue has cropped up on here. I was talking with my husband about the regs on a limit to number of dogs/cats at a property etc. He shrugged his shoulders and said Australia wasn't like the UK in terms of dog ownership. We are 'dog mad' over here and the Aussie culture isn't like that. He didn't say it being mean or uncaring, just that is what he has grown up with and is used to and what is the norm in the UK isn't in Aus.

 

I guess I can see where he is coming from. Many dogs live outside in Aus, kennel in the yard type thing. Some never go in the house. I found this weird to get my head round, having a family pet but it not living as part of the family, but it does seem very accepted over in Aus. In the UK we are usually shocked if people admit to keeping their dog outdoors (I also think our colder winters mean we consider it cruel to do this) and most pet dogs live in the house in some shape or form (confined to downstairs only, or a couple or rooms or even the run of the house).

 

I've known many working dogs live outside all year round here in the UK. Kenneled, well cared for but not kept in the house. They survived our winters. Is it so bad to think a dog will be more expected to live outside in Aus? Or that we dog owners are told we can only keep X amount of dogs at a house. In the UK some people I know keep 4, 5 or 6 even in one house with no by laws or regulations to tell them otherwise.

 

All the people I know in Aus that have dogs, out of all of them, only one has a dog that lives inside the house. The rest are all outside dogs, with the odd one allowed in the family room or kitchen and utility. I never thought of them as much a part of the family but they were certainly not deprived or uncared for nor I think unhappy. Even the Aussie relatives when talking about getting a dog said about it living outside and didn't think much of my having a dog to live as part of the family in the house viewpoint :nah:

 

Do we need to be prepared to adjust to the Aussie approach of dog keeping once in Aus or continue being British and having house dogs and wanting to own more than two perhaps? Also things like specific dog parks to exercise a dog in Aus, which we don't have in the UK mean dog walking may not be what it was in the UK.

 

Personally I feel its rather restrictive to be told you can only keep two dogs and need a licence to have more but on the other hand it hopefully stops people having too many animals and not being able to care for them or afford them. Also I am used to having two or more dogs in our house (most we had was 7 at one point) and I love a houseful of doglets lounging around. But saying that, in Aus I'd probably not want more than one or two simply because of the climate, the more outdoor living and the restrictions for dog walking in parks and so on that are often in place. It would also reflect in the kind of dog we would have there. We'd certainly not be looking for a dog that required lots of long walks or was high energy as we have had in the past. We'd be looking for something that would cope well with lead walks, dog parks and shorter walks.

 

I don't think there is a right or wrong in all of this, just differences. It's how we go about finding a solution or a way of making it work for us as individuals. Hrm, a bit of a ramble but I'd like to know peoples thoughts and/or experiences on this one.

 

:biggrin:

 

I have lived in WA for 13 yrs my hubby for 36 yrs. So long as your dog is on a leash it can be walked in any park in WA. There are parks in suburbs that do allow you to let you dog of the laesh & there are plenty of them. The Aussies are big animal lovers & most homes have a dog or cat or both. There are restrictions on beaches which is understandable you don't want to be relaxing & have a dog bounding towards you, so the dogs have there own beaches.

We have an indoor cat she is a long haired peak faced persian that only goes out in the garden on a leash. We also have a Samoyed puppy, we have just got this dog but have had dogs since we arrived in WA. She is allowed indoors & is free to roam the house, seh sleeps inside, but also has an outdoor bed & kennel. You have to have a licence for all dogs whether you have 1 or 3. Different areas & councils have different resrictions on the number of dogs & cats you can keep at your property. The general rule is 2 dogs & 2 cats, but you can apply to your local council to keep more dogs/cats at your property. In certain council areas (joondalup) cats are not permitted to roam.

The rules are there to protects neighbours & yourself from your neighbour having 15 dogs / cats. The rules also ensure there are not so many unwanted animals.

I hope this helps the resrictions aren't as bad as people make out. All of our friends in Oz, expats & Aussies have dogs, cats & some have birds/fish/snakes etc. Most of our friends have 3 dogs & 3 cats, the dogs are outdoor dogs but they do let them in the house & the cats are free to do what they please.

You will find that the Aussie way is pretty close to the UK way.

[Tulip]

That's a huge relief to me, and I'm glad that my impression was wrong as obviously I would much prefer a country that loves their dogs!

 

I must say that I treat my dogs like little people, LOL! They're still dogs, they're very well-trained, but I adore them and have them in bed with me!

[Guest guest36187]

We Have a four year old border collie, kelpie cross. He is 60% outside dog. When we are home, he comes in. He has an area in our lounge that he lays with his own cushion. He knows it is his and when let in goes straight there!! He has a way of letting us know when he needs to go out. Dogs need the freedom to be able to run around. I'm on a 712 m2 block and our dog sometimes can't be found! Hes laying round the back of the house in the sun trap, running through our trees looking for possums!! Lol

[Mandy28]

My Uncle kept his dog outside year round in Australia which he and I got into a heated debate about years ago. Also due to the fact that it was a Boxer dog and I know how much they crave for human contact. (in my experience having always had Boxers) He let the cats in the house but not the dog.. I never understood his way of thinking, But the dog had always been kept outside and didn't know any different. It was me expecting other people to treat dogs the way I do! But I think everyone is different with their cats & dogs. His daughter actually has a dog and he sleeps in the bed with her and her husband.

 

My friend will happily go out all day long and leave her dog at home cooped up indoors, Whereas I generally work on 4 hour sections and if I am going out all day I get my mum to come and be with them otherwise I don't go!! Yes they do rule my world. I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

I think if your pet has always been an inside dog it is hard to get them to stay outside. If I leave mine in the garden too long in the UK winter they stand at the back door and bark and the boxer even paws at the door to be let in. The little Boston just stands there shivering. In the summer in the UK (take today for instance) I have two doors open to get a nice through draft through the house, The little dog is upstairs in his bed in my bedroom and the Boxer is laying at my feet in the conservatory... Oh he has just moved out to the decking.

If you start off with a puppy/ dog and keep it outside it doesn't know any difference. All to do with what the dog is used to I suppose.

I think it's all down to personal preference, I would always have my dogs as inside dogs as that is what I like.

I'm looking forward to them being able to spend a lot longer out in the garden throughout the year and giving me a chance to clear up the blooming Boxers white hairs off of everything!

 

I have friends and family in Australia that both have indoor dogs and dogs that have never stepped foot inside the house. Like I said what works for some doesn't work for others.

[Guest cazbomac]

Hi there, I returned from Brisbane last year and we had taken both my dogs (labrador and border collie) out from Scotland when we emigrated. Our house was built on a 450m2 plot and we discovered that Moreton Bay Regional council considered that this was too small for 2 dogs! This was incredible as our garden was about twice the size of the one we had in Scotland. However I will add that our dogs get walked 3 times every single day and we found that many of our neighbours with dogs just kept them in their yard and they never actually got taken for a walk. We had one neighbour with 2 cavalier spaniels and they told us they were "house dogs". You are supposed to register your dog and pay a fee annually and display a token on their collar or you get fined. Apparently some councils do spot checks and will confiscate your dog if it isn't registered by taking it from your back garden! Dogs have to be walked everywhere on a lead unless you are at a recognised dog park or dog beach and even then I found people complaining to me that my dogs were running around off the lead and on more than one occasion the complainers seemed confused when I told them we were actually on a dog beach!! I then received some rather racist abuse about being an incomer and why didn't I go back to where I came from! My dogs were 4 & 5 when I took them out and the heat really affected them and now 3 years later back in Scotland they are running around like pups again. I was surprised and disappointed to find how dog unfriendly Australia can be. We travelled for 3 months before returning and had to take the dogs with us and found signs in main streets of small town stating that dogs weren't allowed even on leads! For us our dogs didn't have as much freedom as they do here and for that reason I wouldn't want to take them back or have a dog in Australia. Anyway hope this helps but this is only my experience of Brisbane and surrounding areas.

[Tulip]

That is something I remember from Aus; here in the UK you can take your dog everyhwere, on the bus, train, to cafes where seated outside, pubs, etc., etc., but Mark was telling me that never happens in Aus and is just not allowed. Bit of a shame as my two are very social and love people, but hey ho.

[Guest cazbomac]

Hi Tulip

Couldn't agree more. I forgot about some of the things that you also mention. Our local pub in Scotland even has a box of biscuits behind the bar for our dogs! We walked for 45 mins to our local Tavern in North Lakes and we couldn't even have the dogs sit beside us outside, we had to tie them up on the pavement about 100 metres away - "cos that's the law" the barman told us!

 

However I think in smaller towns they are a bit more liberal. When travelling we stayed in Tamworth and we stopped at a pub after our night walk where the bar manager let the dogs sit beside us outside on the decking.

 

When I took the dogs to the vet for their rabies tests for coming home the Canadian Vet had previously lived in East Lothian, quite near us and he was disappointed how restricted he was in Australia with his dogs

 

We've been considering moving back to Brisbane but the experience we had with the dogs is one of the main things that is putting us off as our lives really revolve round walking with them and leaving them would be like leaving the children! :biggrin:

[Guest]

Our neighbour here in the UK has Seven dogs, yes seven, a restriction could be good!

S

[Guest Bazinga]

I only have limited experience but I don't know of any inside dogs at all in Oz! I found it a bit odd but the weather is good enough for them to be outside and most live in the garage or kennel when it's not. MrBs dog who lives with his parents on the central coast is an outdoor dog & seems very happy.

 

I find the keep your cat in at night rule baffling, to me that's when cats *should* be outside.

[Guest cazbomac]

I agree the weather is certainly good enough to keep dogs outside but they need more exercise and mental stimulation by going for walks than just living in a yard or a garage.

 

I didn't know about the keep cats inside at night rule but I have to agree with it. In fact I don't actually agree with cats being imported to Australia as more native birds and animals are killed unnecessarily by cats than by dogs, same as cats do in this country killing birds and mice.

[Guest]

I didn't know about the keep cats inside at night rule but I have to agree with it. In fact I don't actually agree with cats being imported to Australia as more native birds and animals are killed unnecessarily by cats than by dogs, same as cats do in this country killing birds and mice.

 

Some areas have cat curfews. Some require cats to be indoors 24/7 or within the confines of your property (how do you stop a cat climbing out of the garden?). If a cat is found outside during these it can be taken to the pound. If not claimed, chipped etc they can be PTS within a week.

[Zoot]

What I find odd is that you can keep 2 dogs and 2 cats but are not supposed to have 4 dogs or 4 cats or 3 dogs and 1 cat - huh? How crazy is that!!

 

As for cats running around killing all the small wildlife - that is a good joke. Sure you get some cats that kill everything in sight and others that dont, but clearance of land for housing also kills animals as it destroys their habitat, cars and trucks kill masses of wildlife so it is a multifaceted problem not just restricted to cats.

[Skani]

(how do you stop a cat climbing out of the garden?).

 

There is such a thing as catproof fencing: we have it around our back yard.

Keeps the cats in and the possums out.

[Skani]

I only have limited experience but I don't know of any inside dogs at all in Oz! I found it a bit odd but the weather is good enough for them to be outside and most live in the garage or kennel when it's not. MrBs dog who lives with his parents on the central coast is an outdoor dog & seems very happy.

 

I find the keep your cat in at night rule baffling, to me that's when cats *should* be outside.

 

All the dogs I know here in Tasmania are inside dogs, apart from those kept as working dogs on rural sheep properties. Maybe it's something to do with the cooler climate.

 

The night rule for cats is because so many of our native wildlife species, including endangered species, are nocturnal.

[dinkydoo]

Maybe if there were more rules and regulations in the UK about keeping dogs it would stop people from having too many dogs, my neighbour has 10 dogs in a small 3 bed terraced house with a tiny garden, they are cocker spaniels and border collies so not small dogs, personally dont think this should be allowed. Also if they brought back the dog license then there might be more control of young lads owning dangerous dogs.

 

I am not anti dogs, we had dogs growing up and my parents have always had a dog, just think it should be a bit more controlled.

[Guest]

A UK dog licence would have to be enforced now though. The old one was only a few pence and not really meaning anything.

 

A fee of £100 per year (for a neutered dog/bitch, more if not), dog with collar on at all times, microchipped also would be good. All linked to a dog register/licence set up. Anyone no complying would get a fine and the possible removal of the dog/s from their ownership.

 

The thing is, how do you enforce such a thing or even implement it. And there are still a large amount of people who would not care and would not get a licence.

[Guest cazbomac]

@zoot, I agree with you about cats not being solely responsible for killing wildlife and in actual fact I did some research on stats on the major killers of wildlife after being verbally abused by someone whilst I was out walking my dogs and although I can't remember the exact numbers now the figures showed only something like 13% were killed as a result of animal attacks and the biggest killer of koalas is actually the chlamidia type disease that they carry themselves.

I do understand the keep in after dark rule given the proportion of nocturnal wildlife in Oz as you can't keep it on a leash and stop it jumping over the fence!