Visa Capping - Senate Inquiry

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Are YOU kidding? $500 - that would be 10 hours per visa at $50 an hour (a fairly standard rate I would say). Guess what? It takes 20 mins to do the average student visa - I know because I know someone who processes them. That is $25 A MINUTE to cover the labour.

 

 

:biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:

Go and look at what other countries charge for a student visa, or any visa for that matter and then come back and tell me that this isn't one of the biggest money making scams in history. This is a Government department and it is fleecing people for as much as they can justifiably get away with. In fact it's not even justifiable and they should be investigated and made to justify the extortionate prices they charge.

 

Hi Jeffster

 

I agree with you on both of the points you have made. DIAC build huge numbers of costs for different elements of visa processing into their charges. For example, they say that it costs $x AUD to process the meds for a visa application. Yeah right. The Panel Doctor ticks Box A on form 26 in order to confirm that the applicant is perfectly healthy. A clerk in Sydney then confirms that the meds are OK, so the clerk has the laborious task of completing a bog-simple form to send to the CO. Very exhausting work requiring a great deal of skill, completing veru boring on-line forms all day long, no doubt.

 

One of the reasons why Australia charges so much for its visas is that they pay more public servants than almost every other country possesses. In this regard, I spent 2 very boring years working for the civil service in the UK a few years ago. Something that I wasn't involved with required a meeting with our Agency's French counterparts. The civil service never send one person if they can send a mob instead, and I was chummy with one of the Directors of the Agency that I worked for. So he asked me if I would like to go to Paris with him to visit the French contingent. I leapt at the chance, needless to say! The leader of the French trio involved was a young lady - she looked about 26. Chatting with her over lunch, I explained that 350 people worked at HQ in the British Government's Agency (a part of the Department for Transport.) How many people did our French counterparts employ? She said 12 people in total, 1/4 of whom had come to eyeball the two Brits that day!

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[dasalcedo]

Well like you say it a Government department, costs money to run a department and $500 is a hell of a lot less than $25,000 as stated by the previous poster.

 

Now the funny are you... nobody has said that $25,000 is the cost of a visa. $25,000 is the cost to come here to study per year and remember that most of the Universities here in Australia are not private.

 

Australian government is a rip off and that is a fact. Canada charges AU$130 for a student visa and USA charges AU$168 for the same visa.

 

Cheers

[Guest beersheer]

Now the funny are you... nobody has said that $25,000 is the cost of a visa. $25,000 is the cost to come here to study per year and remember that most of the Universities here in Australia are not private.

 

Australian government is a rip off and that is a fact. Canada charges AU$130 for a student visa and USA charges AU$168 for the same visa.

 

Cheers

 

I agree with you Dasalcedo....

 

Even if some of the institutions are private, still the money is flowing into the Aussie economy...

 

Its a win-win situation for Australia...

[Guest Manj]

The Government states that the Student visa and Skilled visa processes are separate, that means you can't expect PR straight of the back of a Student visa. That's my point.

 

 

 

 

Of course we know that they are 2 seperate things...however, note that the Australian government encouraged students who complete their studies provided they have the sufficient points for General Skill Migration(GSM) to apply for GSM

 

DIAC used to hold GSM presentation at Universitiess encouraging students to consider applying for Permanent Residency on completion of the course

 

Why did the Australan government waive the work experience for recent graduates...because they encouraged students to apply for PR once they complete their course.

 

So in other words DIAC was promoting the fact that once you study in AUs you get to apply for Permanent Residency!

[Joebloggs]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So in other words DIAC was promoting the fact that once you study in AUs you get to apply for Permanent Residency!

 

Yeah you get to apply for it!! and you can still apply for it by way of Employer sponsored.

 

No one is saying you can't apply!! just that if you paid for education in Australia doesn't mean you will Automatically get PR.

 

People might have bought themselves PR by the student route in the past but there was to many people rorting the system.

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Yeah you get to apply for it!! and you can still apply for it by way of Employer sponsored.

 

No one is saying you can't apply!! just that if you paid for education in Australia doesn't mean you will Automatically get PR.

 

People might have bought themselves PR by the student route in the past but there was to many people rorting the system.

 

Hi JoeBloggs

 

People might have bought themselves PR by the student route in the past but there was to many people rorting the system

 

Either prove what you say or withdraw your offensive remark, I suggest.

 

If - as you allege - too many Students were "rorting the system," why did the super-brainy Australian Government allow them to do it?

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[ramot]

Joebloggs, I think you need to know a bit more about what you are posting here.

a) Many International students were here long before the 2008/9 migration program changes, so it was an encouraged route to PR by the government before then, especially in 2005 when my family member chose to study here. So a little respect/sympathy please.

b) Don't assume that every International student came here to study cookery/hairdressing. I mean no disrespect to those that did. Many have studied at universities for degrees and higher. No one has abused the system of study to PR, if as a result of studying here, the system is in place to do exactly that.

c) Why does the 885/6 visa exist, if it's not for students to make an application for PR. If you read the conditions for the 885 visa, you have points for the different levels of study, and then you have to be approved by vettesses to qualify for the points for the job you now are assessed as qualified for. So it's no easy route.

d) If by studying here, you then have enough points to apply for PR, why is this such a bad thing. You have helped the economy, including jobs to many employed in the education sector, plus all the other offshoots involved. I know many people who rent out rooms/flats to students.

What's the difference between gaining your 120 points for a 175 visa etc. to gaining your 120 points through study, if that is a recognised route.

I get so fed up with students being blamed for everything, students took advantage of possibly a flawed government system, not their fault. The so called dodgy colleges should have been shut down years ago, and then the students who came here and studied at approved colleges, eg. taffes and universities wouldn't be in this situation, as there would be far fewer involved. Yes I blame the government totally for this mess.

Due to the constant changes over the last few years, many genuine ex students are now on bridging visa A for possibly years, even though they hold down good well paid jobs, pay taxes etc. Not all are taxi drivers (and again I mean no offence, it's the assumption that seems to be made in the press).

As for your comment about the employer sponsored route, would be wonderful to be sponsored after studying, but, if you are onshore you have to be employed for 3 years by the same employer before you can apply for this, and it costs yet more money.

[Jeffster]

a) Many International students were here long before the 2008/9 migration program changes, so it was an encouraged route to PR by the government before then, especially in 2005 when my family member chose to study here. So a little respect/sympathy please.

 

 

Yep, if you look at DIAC / Uni literature pre-2008 (instead of quoting recent releases by DIAC pretending there was never a link between study -> PR) it practically says "study in Australia and get your PR!"

 

b) Don't assume that every International student came here to study cookery/hairdressing. I mean no disrespect to those that did. Many have studied at universities for degrees and higher. No one has abused the system of study to PR, if as a result of studying here, the system is in place to do exactly that.

 

 

Isn't it only 12,000 of 150,000 queued applicants that are for cookery & hairdressing? I vaguely recall seeing this stat somewhere. If true then it is a mere 8% which is nowhere near "a few" never mind "every"!

 

I get so fed up with students being blamed for everything, students took advantage of possibly a flawed government system, not their fault.

 

 

Let me just rewrite that bit; a tiny minority of students took advantage of a deeply flawed system setup by the Government and encouraged by many groups and individuals that resulted in rorting as much money as possible from International students in return for a virtual promise of guaranteed PR. These tiny minority understood this unspoken arrangement and went about selling everything they owned and borrowing money in the hope of securing a better life overseas. When the Government realised their rort was being rorted they decided to pull the plug affecting not just this tiny minority but the vast majority of applicants.

[Jeffster]

I agree with you on both of the points you have made. DIAC build huge numbers of costs for different elements of visa processing into their charges. For example, they say that it costs $x AUD to process the meds for a visa application. Yeah right. The Panel Doctor ticks Box A on form 26 in order to confirm that the applicant is perfectly healthy. A clerk in Sydney then confirms that the meds are OK, so the clerk has the laborious task of completing a bog-simple form to send to the CO. Very exhausting work requiring a great deal of skill, completing veru boring on-line forms all day long, no doubt.

 

 

Obviously there is no cost auditing here then! Reminds me of that line from Independence Day when he is talking about Government spending "You don't actually think they spend $20,000 on a hammer, $30,000 on a toilet seat, do you?" The need for DIAC to be investigated top to toe financially and operationally is glaringly obvious.

 

One of the reasons why Australia charges so much for its visas is that they pay more public servants than almost every other country possesses. In this regard, I spent 2 very boring years working for the civil service in the UK a few years ago. Something that I wasn't involved with required a meeting with our Agency's French counterparts. The civil service never send one person if they can send a mob instead, and I was chummy with one of the Directors of the Agency that I worked for. So he asked me if I would like to go to Paris with him to visit the French contingent. I leapt at the chance, needless to say! The leader of the French trio involved was a young lady - she looked about 26. Chatting with her over lunch, I explained that 350 people worked at HQ in the British Government's Agency (a part of the Department for Transport.) How many people did our French counterparts employ? She said 12 people in total, 1/4 of whom had come to eyeball the two Brits that day!

 

 

Amazing, wouldn't say no to a free trip to France. Still the French can do a better job with 338 fewer people working 35 hour weeks...

[ramot]

Hi Jeffster, I meant to write some students took advantage etc. but my brain ran away from my typing!!! as I was rather annoyed by joebloggs posts. Interesting statistics if hairdressers etc. only account for 8%.

[Joebloggs]

Hi JoeBloggs

 

 

Either prove what you say or withdraw your offensive remark, I suggest.

 

If - as you allege - too many Students were "rorting the system," why did the super-brainy Australian Government allow them to do it?

 

Cheers

 

Gill

 

Why would I need to prove it!! and why do you think its offensive?

 

I said many people were rortiing the system some are Dodgy colleges/Education providers, some are students and some are others. I never said they all were dodgy.

 

I got my information the same way all other Australians got it, through The Australian newspaper and TV. There wasn't just one rort but many involving in some cases hundreds if not thousands of people.

 

You can blame me for telling it the way I read it.

 

Shao Wen Yin, 27, from Greenacre in Sydney's west, pleaded guilty at Downing Centre District Court to two counts of presenting fake or forged documents under the Migration Act, and was sentenced to 100 hours of community service for each offence.Yin, who is a temporary resident, is believed to be just one of hundreds of international students who paid between $10,000 and $30,000 for fake diplomas from the Sydney International Business College to help with their visa applications. In June 2007, immigration officials and Australian Federal Police raided the premises and seized documents, among them Yin's fake student file.

Yin's barrister, John Overall, said his client's offences should be viewed in the light of the other people involved: SICB director Philip Lobo, the former chief executive of the Australian College of Education and Training, Sanjay Datta, and migration agent David Yu, all of whom have fled Australia.

 

Source

 

 

 

Immigration Minister Chris Evans has tightened visa requirements and refocused on a narrower range of skills to clamp down on rorts and student exploitation.

These included "visa factories" or dodgy courses in areas like hairdressing, cookery and community welfare that were focused solely on permanent residency. International education is Australia's third-largest export earner behind coal and iron ore at about $17 billion a year. International student fees have become a key revenue source for universities following declines in government funding, accounting for more than 15 per cent of revenue. "The government's desire to clean up the industry is entirely admirable, but they have made the changes so abrupt that there is little time for the kind of structural adjustment that is necessary in any big change of this nature, both for the students and the institutions," Mr Pollock said. A spokesman for the Department of Immigration said the changes to a more "demand-driven" immigration program had been signalled as far back as early 2008. "The recently announced changes to skilled migration remove incentives for students to seek permanent residence through low-quality education courses, a practice that damaged the integrity of both the migration program and the education industry," the spokesman said. A spokeswoman for Education Minister Julia Gillard said the sector was well placed to weather the changes. "The introduction of the new Skilled Occupations List will require a refocusing for some education and training providers, but we believe the market is well placed to continue as a world leader in international education services," she said.

 

Source

 

 

 

 

HEATHER EWART: Over the past decade, it's become a $16 billion industry and the pathway for international students to live in Australia permanently.

 

ABC REPORTER (2006 REPORT): Will studying hairdressing help you to get permanent residency?

 

HAIRDRESSING STUDENT: Yeah, I think so because it's so hard work so nobody wants that! (laughs)

 

ACCOUNTANCY STUDENT: Once you are getting through from accounting, you're eligible to apply for permanent residency, yeah.

 

HEATHER EWART: That's all about to change, with the Federal Government flagging its intentions this week to alter our skilled shortage list that once favoured hairdressers, chefs and accountants, to name a few.

 

SENATOR CHRIS EVANS, IMMIGRATION & CITIZENSHIP MINISTER: When we came into government, we were taking hairdressers from overseas in front of doctors and nurses. It didn't make any sense.

 

If you get a student visa to Australia, it's a visa to study; it's not a visa to stay permanently.

 

VASAN SRINIVASAN, FED. INDIAN ASSOCIATIONS OF VICTORIA: This should have done some time ago. I am glad at least they started looking at it now.

 

ANDREW SMITH, AUST COUNCIL FOR PRIVATE EDUC. & TRAINING (ACPET): It's very uncertain as to what sorts of occupations will be eligible for immigration purposes and which won't.

 

And that makes it very hard for businesses to plan and for students to plan.

 

ROHAN CRESP, IASCEND COLLEGE: What we have now is a rush by the Federal and State governments to kick every college possible.

 

PETER VLAHOS, MIGRATION LAWYER: These colleges that spring up like 7-11s around the place will definitely have pressure and hopefully they'll close because they give our country a bad reputation overseas in the education sector.

 

HEATHER EWART: The announcement has sent shockwaves through the international education industry, already dealing with bad publicity surrounding shonky operators and colleges going bust.

 

Scores of them around the country have focused specifically on courses that would enable students to get permanent residency. Now there are forecasts many will collapse.

 

PETER VLAHOS: Hopefully that would be the effect. Sadly, a lot of honest people will be caught up in this.

 

But the Government had to act. And this is a way of acting and I think it is an appropriate decision, albeit there will be consequences for some.

 

ANDREW SMITH: I think there is a very real risk that if colleges have not got a sustainable business model, if they're too narrowly focussed, that they may well find their viability at risk.

 

ROHAN CRESP: I can imagine around 100 dubious colleges will move out of this area because they're not really fair dinkum about education.

 

HEATHER EWART: The Government won't release details of its new skilled migration categories until April but has signalled it will include nurses, GPs, mechanical engineers and teachers, not cooks and hairdressers.

 

There's growing speculation within the international education sector that this is also a backdoor way for the Government to crack down on rogue operators and rorting within the industry that's come under increasing scrutiny in the past 12 months.

 

ROHAN CRESP: What's gone wrong is, I believe, they allowed a range of colleges to be registered by people that had no background in education, no commitment to education and were literally people smugglers with classrooms rather than boats.

 

PETER VLAHOS: I think the real issues are unscrupulous operators taking advantage of students, bad migration agents, bad colleges.

 

JOHN SUTTON, NATIONAL SECRETARY, CFMEU: I think the international education lobby has had a hell of a lot of power. I think they've been, uh...really using their clout to say that this was a major industry, it should be untouched, Government should put cotton wool around it.

 

I think governments were slow to realise that there was a lot of a lot of rorts going on in that area.

 

HEATHER EWART: Indeed, three years ago, the 7:30 Report revealed what appeared to be a major scam involving and Indian businessman, Ramanathan Kumar, allegedly offering two Sri Lankan students a deal in a Melbourne city square.

 

If they paid him $13,500 each, he could build up the number of points required by the Department of Immigration for them to be eligible for permanent residency. They'd get false paperwork to prove work experience.

 

The students didn't want to be identified in an interview, but after their meeting outlined the deal to us.

 

STUDENT 1: Kumar guaranteed us a letter saying that we've worked in a particular company for six months and this letter will-will add five points towards your permanent residency.

 

HEATHER EWART: And would you really be working for that company or not?

 

STUDENT 1: No, you wouldn't even step anywhere near the company.

 

HEATHER EWART: After our story went to air, the Immigration Department referred the matter to Federal Police. Three years on, a spokesman has told us the department is not at liberty to give us the outcome but, we understand, no action was ever taken against the businessman.

 

Whether changes to skilled migration categories would stop rorting in this area is anyone's guess.

 

PETER VLAHOS: I think firmer laws would stop rorting. I think a better regulation overseas of education and migration agents through our various consular and diplomatic legations should, um, regulate the industry.

 

It's offshore that the problem starts.

 

VASAN SRINIVASAN: The agents overseas are the one providing them wrong information. The majority of the agents are telling the students that when you go to Australia you don't need to worry about your living.

 

(angry mob shouting)

 

HEATHER EWART: Tensions are already running high in this industry, since Indian students took to the streets in Melbourne last year to protest at alleged racist attacks. Not only has this created diplomatic problems with India, but enrolments by Indian students have plummeted.

 

VASAN SRINIVASAN: It started happening in the last few months

 

I was told by a number of Indian agents in India during my trip to India recently that approximately 60 to 65 percentage drops in student number coming to Australia.

 

ANDREW SMITH: And that's very significant. It has an impact on people's forward projections and their business viability.

 

COOKING TEACHER: You need one egg yolk in each bowl, guys.

 

HEATHER EWART: The skilled migration rule changes will add to that pressure.

 

At this college in Melbourne's CBD, most of the international students studying cooking are Indian.

 

DHARMINDER SINGH, STUDENT: Everyone is, you know, worried about the future, about the living here. They have so many dreams here. They are working somewhere and... You know, it's really hard.

 

HEATHER EWART: When word spreads in India that a cooking course is not going to lead to permanent residency in Australia, there's bound to be a further decline in enrolments.

 

KERRY O'BRIEN: Heather Ewart with that report from Melbourne.

 

 

 

 

Source

[Guest Manj]

Yeah you get to apply for it!! and you can still apply for it by way of Employer sponsored. .

 

 

of course I'm aware that ENS (Employer nomination scheme) is another pathway.... I don't think anyone here denies it!

 

No one is saying you can't apply!! just that if you paid for education in Australia doesn't mean you will Automatically get PR.

 

My point is THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT PROMOTED THE STUDY TO PR PATHWAY...WE DID NOT MAKE THESE UP OURSELVES DID WE?????.....

 

People might have bought themselves PR by the student route in the past but there was to many people rorting the system.

 

Escuse me...what do you mean by "People might have bought themselves PR by the student route " Just because one is a student and one completes his/her course does not mean one can gain Permanent Residency ---- ONE NEEDS TO QUALIFY FOR THE POINT SYSTEM AND SCORE THE SET POINTS !!

[User Name]

Guys just ignore him. I wonder what he is doing here anyway now that he got his visa - aside from rubbing salt on the wound.

[yc1ten]

Why would I need to prove it!! and why do you think its offensive?

 

I said many people were rortiing the system some are Dodgy colleges/Education providers, some are students and some are others. I never said they all were dodgy.

 

I got my information the same way all other Australians got it, through The Australian newspaper and TV. There wasn't just one rort but many involving in some cases hundreds if not thousands of people.

 

You can blame me for telling it the way I read it.

 

Shao Wen Yin, 27, from Greenacre in Sydney's west, pleaded guilty at Downing Centre District Court to two counts of presenting fake or forged documents under the Migration Act, and was sentenced to 100 hours of community service for each offence.Yin, who is a temporary resident, is believed to be just one of hundreds of international students who paid between $10,000 and $30,000 for fake diplomas from the Sydney International Business College to help with their visa applications. In June 2007, immigration officials and Australian Federal Police raided the premises and seized documents, among them Yin's fake student file.

Yin's barrister, John Overall, said his client's offences should be viewed in the light of the other people involved: SICB director Philip Lobo, the former chief executive of the Australian College of Education and Training, Sanjay Datta, and migration agent David Yu, all of whom have fled Australia.

 

Source

 

 

 

Immigration Minister Chris Evans has tightened visa requirements and refocused on a narrower range of skills to clamp down on rorts and student exploitation.

These included "visa factories" or dodgy courses in areas like hairdressing, cookery and community welfare that were focused solely on permanent residency. International education is Australia's third-largest export earner behind coal and iron ore at about $17 billion a year. International student fees have become a key revenue source for universities following declines in government funding, accounting for more than 15 per cent of revenue. "The government's desire to clean up the industry is entirely admirable, but they have made the changes so abrupt that there is little time for the kind of structural adjustment that is necessary in any big change of this nature, both for the students and the institutions," Mr Pollock said. A spokesman for the Department of Immigration said the changes to a more "demand-driven" immigration program had been signalled as far back as early 2008. "The recently announced changes to skilled migration remove incentives for students to seek permanent residence through low-quality education courses, a practice that damaged the integrity of both the migration program and the education industry," the spokesman said. A spokeswoman for Education Minister Julia Gillard said the sector was well placed to weather the changes. "The introduction of the new Skilled Occupations List will require a refocusing for some education and training providers, but we believe the market is well placed to continue as a world leader in international education services," she said.

 

Source

 

 

 

 

HEATHER EWART: Over the past decade, it's become a $16 billion industry and the pathway for international students to live in Australia permanently.

 

ABC REPORTER (2006 REPORT): Will studying hairdressing help you to get permanent residency?

 

HAIRDRESSING STUDENT: Yeah, I think so because it's so hard work so nobody wants that! (laughs)

 

ACCOUNTANCY STUDENT: Once you are getting through from accounting, you're eligible to apply for permanent residency, yeah.

 

HEATHER EWART: That's all about to change, with the Federal Government flagging its intentions this week to alter our skilled shortage list that once favoured hairdressers, chefs and accountants, to name a few.

 

SENATOR CHRIS EVANS, IMMIGRATION & CITIZENSHIP MINISTER: When we came into government, we were taking hairdressers from overseas in front of doctors and nurses. It didn't make any sense.

 

If you get a student visa to Australia, it's a visa to study; it's not a visa to stay permanently.

 

VASAN SRINIVASAN, FED. INDIAN ASSOCIATIONS OF VICTORIA: This should have done some time ago. I am glad at least they started looking at it now.

 

ANDREW SMITH, AUST COUNCIL FOR PRIVATE EDUC. & TRAINING (ACPET): It's very uncertain as to what sorts of occupations will be eligible for immigration purposes and which won't.

 

And that makes it very hard for businesses to plan and for students to plan.

 

ROHAN CRESP, IASCEND COLLEGE: What we have now is a rush by the Federal and State governments to kick every college possible.

 

PETER VLAHOS, MIGRATION LAWYER: These colleges that spring up like 7-11s around the place will definitely have pressure and hopefully they'll close because they give our country a bad reputation overseas in the education sector.

 

HEATHER EWART: The announcement has sent shockwaves through the international education industry, already dealing with bad publicity surrounding shonky operators and colleges going bust.

 

Scores of them around the country have focused specifically on courses that would enable students to get permanent residency. Now there are forecasts many will collapse.

 

PETER VLAHOS: Hopefully that would be the effect. Sadly, a lot of honest people will be caught up in this.

 

But the Government had to act. And this is a way of acting and I think it is an appropriate decision, albeit there will be consequences for some.

 

ANDREW SMITH: I think there is a very real risk that if colleges have not got a sustainable business model, if they're too narrowly focussed, that they may well find their viability at risk.

 

ROHAN CRESP: I can imagine around 100 dubious colleges will move out of this area because they're not really fair dinkum about education.

 

HEATHER EWART: The Government won't release details of its new skilled migration categories until April but has signalled it will include nurses, GPs, mechanical engineers and teachers, not cooks and hairdressers.

 

There's growing speculation within the international education sector that this is also a backdoor way for the Government to crack down on rogue operators and rorting within the industry that's come under increasing scrutiny in the past 12 months.

 

ROHAN CRESP: What's gone wrong is, I believe, they allowed a range of colleges to be registered by people that had no background in education, no commitment to education and were literally people smugglers with classrooms rather than boats.

 

PETER VLAHOS: I think the real issues are unscrupulous operators taking advantage of students, bad migration agents, bad colleges.

 

JOHN SUTTON, NATIONAL SECRETARY, CFMEU: I think the international education lobby has had a hell of a lot of power. I think they've been, uh...really using their clout to say that this was a major industry, it should be untouched, Government should put cotton wool around it.

 

I think governments were slow to realise that there was a lot of a lot of rorts going on in that area.

 

HEATHER EWART: Indeed, three years ago, the 7:30 Report revealed what appeared to be a major scam involving and Indian businessman, Ramanathan Kumar, allegedly offering two Sri Lankan students a deal in a Melbourne city square.

 

If they paid him $13,500 each, he could build up the number of points required by the Department of Immigration for them to be eligible for permanent residency. They'd get false paperwork to prove work experience.

 

The students didn't want to be identified in an interview, but after their meeting outlined the deal to us.

 

STUDENT 1: Kumar guaranteed us a letter saying that we've worked in a particular company for six months and this letter will-will add five points towards your permanent residency.

 

HEATHER EWART: And would you really be working for that company or not?

 

STUDENT 1: No, you wouldn't even step anywhere near the company.

 

HEATHER EWART: After our story went to air, the Immigration Department referred the matter to Federal Police. Three years on, a spokesman has told us the department is not at liberty to give us the outcome but, we understand, no action was ever taken against the businessman.

 

Whether changes to skilled migration categories would stop rorting in this area is anyone's guess.

 

PETER VLAHOS: I think firmer laws would stop rorting. I think a better regulation overseas of education and migration agents through our various consular and diplomatic legations should, um, regulate the industry.

 

It's offshore that the problem starts.

 

VASAN SRINIVASAN: The agents overseas are the one providing them wrong information. The majority of the agents are telling the students that when you go to Australia you don't need to worry about your living.

 

(angry mob shouting)

 

HEATHER EWART: Tensions are already running high in this industry, since Indian students took to the streets in Melbourne last year to protest at alleged racist attacks. Not only has this created diplomatic problems with India, but enrolments by Indian students have plummeted.

 

VASAN SRINIVASAN: It started happening in the last few months

 

I was told by a number of Indian agents in India during my trip to India recently that approximately 60 to 65 percentage drops in student number coming to Australia.

 

ANDREW SMITH: And that's very significant. It has an impact on people's forward projections and their business viability.

 

COOKING TEACHER: You need one egg yolk in each bowl, guys.

 

HEATHER EWART: The skilled migration rule changes will add to that pressure.

 

At this college in Melbourne's CBD, most of the international students studying cooking are Indian.

 

DHARMINDER SINGH, STUDENT: Everyone is, you know, worried about the future, about the living here. They have so many dreams here. They are working somewhere and... You know, it's really hard.

 

HEATHER EWART: When word spreads in India that a cooking course is not going to lead to permanent residency in Australia, there's bound to be a further decline in enrolments.

 

KERRY O'BRIEN: Heather Ewart with that report from Melbourne.

 

 

 

 

Source

 

 

God Bless you Joebloggs!

[User Name]

Deleted

[Guest Gollywobbler]

God Bless you Joebloggs!

 

Hi yc1ten

 

Quite! I really am very sceptical of anybody who reads "the Australian" newspaper, watches the TV news, gets all his information from those two sources alone but is apparently naive enough to believe every word.

 

The term "journalistic licence" is a thought that might be found to be useful, I suspect.

 

I am astonished to learn that the Australian Government is so thick-witted that it was unable to spot alleged rorts happening for some years after the alleged rorts began. Give the First Bloke a job, I say! I expect he could deal with such a blind and naive Government.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Joebloggs]

now now Gill I am far from naive. I think I would know what going on in my own country.

 

The Australian newspaper is the biggest selling national broadsheet newspaper in the country and the ABC is the national Media network very like the BBC. They are hardly making it up next you will be claiming the holocaust never happened.

[User Name]

Joebloggs, you may ramble on about Government not trying to woe in students using PR as a bait, but subclass 885 and 886 ARE for international students who just graduated! They don't require any work experience. So tell me, if government all along was simply planning to sell education with no links to immigration, why would such subclass of PR visa exist?

 

Just like 175, ENS and what not, 885 and 886 requires you to study in Australia for 2 years. So someone intending to apply for these subclasses has the right to study for PR just like someone intending to migrate on ENS work for suitable employer for 3 years.

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-migration/885/

 

This visa allows overseas students who have completed their course studies in the last 6 (six) months in Australia and holders of certain temporary visas to apply for permanent residency.

This visa uses a points test to select visa applicants with characteristics needed in the Australian labour market.

[Joebloggs]

Nah I didn't ramble on about the Government not trying to woe in students using PR as a bait. If you look back I actually started by my first post in this thread by saying that from a student was always a bit risky and was never a guarantee to getting PR.

 

Also going straight from student visa to seeking asylum.

 

Acceptance, because thats life and its sometimes its Sh*t.

 

Student visa to PR was always risky, just because you spend thousands on an education does not mean you are entitled to Permanent residency. Any student who payed to obtain an education got exactly what they paid for an education.

 

Buying PR was never an option and neither is being on a student visa one week and seeking asylum the next. Sure its madness.

 

 

Also I will quote what Senator Chris Evans said in a transcript of this program Source

 

SENATOR CHRIS EVANS, IMMIGRATION & CITIZENSHIP MINISTER: When we came into government, we were taking hairdressers from overseas in front of doctors and nurses. It didn't make any sense.

 

If you get a student visa to Australia, it's a visa to study; it's not a visa to stay permanently.

 

 

Its all there in black & white.

 

I am not saying that the government did not mention that a student visa could lead to PR just that it was 2 separate processes and is not automatic.

 

Sure if someone meets the required skills criteria then they can apply for PR without problem whether they came through 175, ENS or 885/886. I never said they couldn't.

 

But any reasonable person would accept that some people are just not eligible for a PR visa, they might have been eligible a few years ago but if the the government changes the rules and they are no longer eligible then it was a risk that didn't pay off.

 

 

Vocational Education and Training Sector: Temporary Visa (Subclass 572) - Assessment Level 4

Higher Education Sector: Temporary Visa (Subclass 573) - Assessment Level 4

Postgraduate Research Sector: Temporary Visa (Subclass 574) - Assessment Level 2

Non Award Sector: Temporary Visa (Subclass 575) - Assessment Level 3

[User Name]

I am not saying that the government did not mention that a student visa could lead to PR just that it was 2 separate processes and is not automatic.

 

 

No one here claims its automatic.

 

What people are against is the fact that government ignored/failed to act in time against the rorting of education sector. Howard started it, and Rudd did jack until it was way out of control. The $15billion industry didn't get rorted up overnight.

 

Yes lot of these students are to blame. They took a gamble and many thousands of them paid the price for it. Its next to impossible for a cook or hairdresser to go for ENS. They'll have better luck settling in Mars than settling here on ENS.

 

But again it takes 2 to tango. Cookery/Hairdressing students abused it, Government watched it amidst ample warning from universities and hospitality sector and only acted when its way too late.

[Guest Jamie Smith]

Give the First Bloke a job, I say! I expect he could deal with such a blind and naive Government.

 

I wouldn't. He can't.

 

First Bloke was usually listed as a hairdresser, but just before the election he became a property consultant.

 

Sounds more spiffing, yeah?

 

He was taken on by one of Labor's larger donors, a firm that develops property.

 

The press missed a beat didn't they?

 

Nobody said, hey is there a conflict of interest with someone who tries to court the PM and her party by giving them money then employing her spouse?????

 

This with a review afoot of the regulations introduced to lessen union intimidation in the construction industry....

 

Said Bloke has however just resigned his position which evidently was called a sales rep (and dogs body) at the time he resigned.

 

Salesw rep is not really a property consultant, is it? But "novice unlicensed real estate agent in training" doesn't sound spiffing either.

 

Apparently he resigned as a result of perceived conflict of interest. Bit late, eh?

 

You'd think that that kind of COI at PM level would be avoided at great distance, not embraced and then set aside casually. Gillard is queen of spin, more than Rudd.

 

Methinks it was done to avoid the unmarried Gillard from having to say she's cohabiting with a hairdresser. It became "her spouse who is a property consultant... and marrigae has not been ruled out".

 

Are voters really thought of as being that shallow?

[Joebloggs]

I wouldn't. He can't.

 

First Bloke was usually listed as a hairdresser, but just before the election he became a property consultant.

 

Sounds more spiffing, yeah?

 

He was taken on by one of Labor's larger donors, a firm that develops property.

 

The press missed a beat didn't they?

 

Nobody said, hey is there a conflict of interest with someone who tries to court the PM and her party by giving them money then employing her spouse?????

 

This with a review afoot of the regulations introduced to lessen union intimidation in the construction industry....

 

Said Bloke has however just resigned his position which evidently was called a sales rep (and dogs body) at the time he resigned.

 

Salesw rep is not really a property consultant, is it? But "novice unlicensed real estate agent in training" doesn't sound spiffing either.

 

Apparently he resigned as a result of perceived conflict of interest. Bit late, eh?

 

You'd think that that kind of COI at PM level would be avoided at great distance, not embraced and then set aside casually. Gillard is queen of spin, more than Rudd.

 

Methinks it was done to avoid the unmarried Gillard from having to say she's cohabiting with a hairdresser. It became "her spouse who is a property consultant... and marrigae has not been ruled out".

 

Are voters really thought of as being that shallow?

 

Have to agree Labor are absolutely shocking and that's why I voted for the coalition.

[Guest Jamie Smith]

Have to agree Labor are absolutely shocking and that's why I voted for the coalition.

 

Yes the effort going in to spin is mindblowing.

 

Here in Victoria the State Premier employs 22, twenty two, PR people.

 

They either have a lot to hide, or nothing really to say and have to embellish it.

 

Surely the opposition can get elected saying they'd sack 90% of the spin artists. Unless they are worse....

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi Jamie

 

I hear you but pillow talk with the Prime Minister is a powerful weapon....

 

The scenario that makes me chuckle is this one:

 

The scene: Buckingham Palace with tiny little cucumber sandwiches, cup cakes etc laid out for tea and Earl Grey's finest maturing in the pot.

 

The Butler: Your Majesty. The Prime Minister of Australia and her.....ahem....consort? I understand that Mr Mathieson's title is First Bloke in Australia, Ma'am.

 

The Queen: How do you do, Prime Minister.

Joolya: Good, thenks. May I introduce my boyfriend Tim?

The Queen: How do you do... err ... First Bloke.

First Bloke: G'day myte. Crikey! Haven't you got any better tucker than that? I'm starving. I haven't had a decent meal since the plane landed in London this morning... Come on. I brought you a nice silver boomerang as a prezzy. Joolya brought you a little silver kangaroo to keep on your desk. We went to a lot of trouble to work out what you'd like. I did at least expect some decent tucker in return, myte.

 

I can imagine the Aussie High Commissioner to the UK and his Missus cringeing with embarrassment.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest Jamie Smith]

:laugh:

 

And

 

First Bloke: Marm, who does yer'air? Yaneedabettaperm. Strewth. Birds kid nestin thet.

 

Hey Jewke, yaneeedenybrylcreem?

 

And Charlie, a bita Nugget shoe polish will hide yer chrome dome.:jiggy: