Accountants etc. will need 7 each for assessments from 1 July 2010

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Dont get me wrong, it is not my problem. I got overall 8.5 in ielts long time ago...

My friends' experience needs my sympathy... 7 times general, eventually passed, then it turns out to be academic... Most of the international students have reasonable english according to my understanding, but we still need some efforts to get 4 sevens in every module. I know u r british, so it is nearly impossible to taste that feeling...want to know the feelings? Learn some chinese, then take a test, u will know...

 

Hi luyaoqin

 

You make a very fair and reasonable point that I should learn some Chinese and then have a go at a language test in it. Even if I lived in China for 5 years, I reckon I would probably fail the test.

 

I was born in Malaysia and we lived there till I was 20. When I was a child I was bi-lingual in English and what I would call "Market Malay." We had a Javanese housekeeper who loved children and she taught me the Malay words etc. However the only member of my family who ever learned Bahasa Malaysia - which is "Official Malay" - was my late father. Bahasa is useless in the market place, for a start, though it might be OK in the courts etc. However if anybody else seriously thought that Dad could speak Bahasa properly, they were dreaming. Dad had been to special classes and said that he could read and write Bahasa. Which is probably trie but he sure as hell couldn't hold a conversation in it.

 

So I do know what this is like. Personally, too, I am appalled by the way the Australian Government's English is so dreadful that it grates on my nerves. To better target something is to split an infinitive unnecessarily and in a way which hurts my ears and my eyes. To target something better is good English and the Aussies have no excuse for not using it imho. They can read can't they? I'd suggest that they read a few good novels in English and learn how the language ought to be used.

 

My French "o" level was a pretty good joke. I couldn't care less whether ma tante has a plume or not anyway, and so on. Many years later, though, I lived in France for 18 months. My grammar and syntax have always been hopeless in French but living there taught me a good vocabulary, and it was the vocabulary that got me by in the shops.

 

For what it is worth, I've heard that the Academic IELTS is actually easier than the General Test. Apparently the Academic Test uses words that somebody like an Accountant might actually know, whereas asking him whether or not his local lending library is of value to his community is a straightforwardly stupid question to ask him in my view.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Jag Khairra]

Gill,

 

You are right in saying that Academic is easier than General test. Many of my clients have actually asked me if its ok to sit for Academic IELTS for GSM visas. They find it easier, at least some part of IELTS is easier as compared to General.

[Guest backspace]

Hi luyaoqin

 

You make a very fair and reasonable point that I should learn some Chinese and then have a go at a language test in it. Even if I lived in China for 5 years, I reckon I would probably fail the test.

 

I was born in Malaysia and we lived there till I was 20. When I was a child I was bi-lingual in English and what I would call "Market Malay." We had a Javanese housekeeper who loved children and she taught me the Malay words etc. However the only member of my family who ever learned Bahasa Malaysia - which is "Official Malay" - was my late father. Bahasa is useless in the market place, for a start, though it might be OK in the courts etc. However if anybody else seriously thought that Dad could speak Bahasa properly, they were dreaming. Dad had been to special classes and said that he could read and write Bahasa. Which is probably trie but he sure as hell couldn't hold a conversation in it.

 

So I do know what this is like. Personally, too, I am appalled by the way the Australian Government's English is so dreadful that it grates on my nerves. To better target something is to split an infinitive unnecessarily and in a way which hurts my ears and my eyes. To target something better is good English and the Aussies have no excuse for not using it imho. They can read can't they? I'd suggest that they read a few good novels in English and learn how the language ought to be used.

 

My French "o" level was a pretty good joke. I couldn't care less whether ma tante has a plume or not anyway, and so on. Many years later, though, I lived in France for 18 months. My grammar and syntax have always been hopeless in French but living there taught me a good vocabulary, and it was the vocabulary that got me by in the shops.

 

For what it is worth, I've heard that the Academic IELTS is actually easier than the General Test. Apparently the Academic Test uses words that somebody like an Accountant might actually know, whereas asking him whether or not his local lending library is of value to his community is a straightforwardly stupid question to ask him in my view.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

 

@ GILL:

What a coincidence Gill, I'm from Malaysia as well.... But I have to agree with the Aust. Government to a certain extend that IELTS is required to differentiate the good and relatively dodgy accountants.... I have to say this move is to deter Asian students particularly from certain countries which I might not want to name but I am sure you would be well aware of it if you attended an accounting class especially in Melbourne... I am sure they have nothing against those who would genuinely want to work as accountants but too many have taken the dodgy or back alley method.... Studying masters in accounting which requires next to nothing in terms of grades and providing false information in their CV especially in regards to work experience.... This method is commonly used among students from two countries which I can relate to.... One of my mates had a chat with the Auditor General and Australian firms where complaining that graduates were lacking the necessary communication skills to succeed in this industry.... I am working in an accounting firm right now and being able to speak English is sufficient to get you through the door but you must have an understanding of how Australians communicate...

 

@ luyaoqin:

I am a recent migrant as well and basically settling down here in Aust. after finally getting a job.... I am basically on the same boat as Gill where I spoke three different language at home and school... English, Bahasa Malaysia and Cantonese.... I don't see what the debate is especially when I had to pass Bahasa Malaysia which is the national language of my country to even get a shot of studying abroad.... I've done my IELTS and managed to obtain like an 8 or 8.5.... It just depends on your initiative to learn and adapt to a different environment, culture and language... I took the initiative to play rugby for my college and uni when I was here in Aust. and it provided me with an insight look as to how Australians communicate....I mean no disrespect but I guess you and your friend should stop blaming and pointing fingers at anyone else.... Put in some effort and try to assimilate into a new country.

[Graemsay]

I'd have to agree with jagkhairra that the Academic IELTS is possibly easier than the General one.

 

The main difficulty with the General test is the Reading section, and that's because a lot of the language is vague. The Academic version uses more precise language, though the vocabulary is more sophisticated, and the reduced ambiguity of meanings means that you're less likely to get caught out on a trick question.

 

If you've been studying in a university environment then the language used should be familiar too.

 

I actually considered swapping to the Academic version of the test for that reason, but the test centre wouldn't let me...

[Guest Jane1991]

@ Backspace. I strongly disagree. The policy ,linking education to immigration, was created by the government.The market reacted in a way it was expected to... its the government's fault. There is absolutely no point in discrediting the onshore students.

 

What is a' back door entry' ? And if so ... why did the government allow it to prosper ? Education exports earning ? If fingers are going to be pointed then the industry has to bear a greater proportion of blame than the customers. A product was created , marketed and sold with full knowledge of the government. Stop blaming the buyers.

 

I speak English as the only language and I am under no obligation to adapt or accept the Australian culture or values ( whatever they might be ).Workplace communication has nothing to do with accepting a new culture. One can be a competent professional without sacrificing his or her cultural identity.

 

I am not qualified to decide who is a 'good accountant' ... I couldn't care less if they are black or white ... Indian or Chinese...Is it okay for me to say that anyone not doing an honours degree is obviously not good enough as an accountant ? Why stop at that .. top 1 % in the G08 are the only competent ones ? If CPAA thinks their degree is sufficient then thats the end of the matter.

 

I'd say your post has racial overtones ... "deter Asian students particularly from certain countries "

[hellsbells712]

Gill,

 

You are right in saying that Academic is easier than General test. Many of my clients have actually asked me if its ok to sit for Academic IELTS for GSM visas. They find it easier, at least some part of IELTS is easier as compared to General.

 

If the academic IELTS is so easy, why is there so many of us not getting the required mark. Alot of us have professional, educated jobs, are native english speakers but alot of us seem to be just half a mark away from the required 7 each time. It has been said that only about 38% of people pass in 1 sitting. Not sure if this is true or not..

Sorry, but we are all feeling a little cynical at the moment. It's £110 each time. The day I sat mine 97 others st it too. A hell of alot of money.....Is it any wonder ????

[Graemsay]

Jane1991, given that Backspace is from Malaysia and speaks Bahasa Malaysian and Cantonese, I'd guess that he's probably got an ethnic Chinese background

 

I don't think that he's necessarily being racist, but rather pointing out biases inherent in DIAC, who are reputed to have a preference for candidates from Europe rather than Asia.

 

Backspace actually strikes me as being sensible in how he's approached migration, in that he's been proactive in getting an IELTS pass (there have been a few accountants moaning about being trapped in the slush pile for the next few years), and making an effort to fit into Australia. Though I agree it shouldn't be necessary to give up all of your native culture in doing so.

 

(Incidentally, Backspace if the references to rugby have thrown me off, and you're actually a she then please accept my apologies.)

[Guest jimmyay]

Which is faster for Migration Assessment for CIMA? CPA or ICAA?

[Guest Angel54]

My experience with CPA about 4weeks. Btw, did anyone know whether ICAA required IELTS 7 (academic)? Thanks.

[Guest backspace]

To Jane1991:

 

I guess you might have misinterpreted the meaning of my whole post and taking into account that you might not be in the same industry, this could probably be another reason of your lack of knowledge or understanding of what is going on..... Let me breakdown your points:

 

1) I did not point the finger at anyone as I am just stating facts of what is currently happening and you might be true to a certain extend that it is the government's fault for letting this virus to continue spreading..... Therefore, they are doing their best right now to stop this from happening as evident from the introduction of IELTS.

 

2) Once again, when did I ever say that you would have to sacrifice your culture or values to be a competent professional.... All I said is that you cannot expect Australians to adapt to the way you live instead you should take the initiative to learn and appreciate their culture and values given the fact that you have an intention to migrate to Australia.... I disagree to a certain extend that workplace communication has nothing to do with accepting a new culture.... When speaking to clients, it will always be good to have certain knowledge about what is currently happening in Aust. (footy etc etc).... I don't know about you but workplace is not all about business there are times when you would chill and chat about things unrelated to work.... Having said so, I still live the life and enjoy Malaysian culture especially those exquisite food from Malaysia....

 

3) You don't have to study for an honours to be a good accountant... I don't have an honours myself.... completed my acc. degree working towards my CA.... However, the current problem right now is that students who have absolutely no or minimal English language capabilities are coming over to Aust., study masters of prof. accounting which requires next to nothing in terms of grades or whatsoever... How much could you possibly learn in 1-2 years where English is the main form of communication in this industry....

 

4) For your information, I was born in an Asian country and to answer your question Graemsay, I do have a Chinese background..... If you understand the root of the problem and taking into account my background, calling me a racist or having a racial overtone is the last thing you would have in mind....

 

All I am doing is stating what I know and talking through past and current experience.... If you were to read my previous post in detail, the purpose of it was to enlighten "luyaoqin" that English being your second language is an invalid argument considering the fact that I had to learn three different languages and English wasn't force-fed into my brain when I was young.... You have to accept the fact that being able to communicate in English is required to succeed in this industry and yes, IELTS might not be the only to gauge one's English language capabilities but that is the only way that I am aware of at the moment.... I could go on days trying to explain what is going on and I would not like to disclose certain sensitive issues publicly.... Try doing your own research and you might probably agree or disagree with my whole ideology... cheers...

[Graemsay]

Just re-read my previous post, and I qualified a comment about Backspace in such a way that it could be read as saying that he was racist.

 

I meant to say, "I don't think that Backspace is being racist, but commenting on DIAC policy."

 

Sorry about that Backspace.

[Guest Jane1991]

That sounds very reasonable. Backspace. I am afraid I obviously do not know enough about the problems that plague the Accounting Industry.

 

I misinterpreted your choice of words

Your argument would have been just as valid without using "Asian students". Thats why I said 'racial overtones' and not a racist. I guess we all have different ideas about being PC. My apology :embarrassed:

 

DIAC is a government wing and it will not be caught dead discriminating against people of Asian , Arab or Hispanic descent.

 

@Jimmy Jay - NIA is known to have the fastest processing time IMHO .

[Jag Khairra]

From 1 July 2010 the National Institute of Accountants’

assessment criteria for General Skills Migration will include the

requirement of:

 

IELTS Academic Test Report Form (TRF)

Number to show you have a band score of at least seven (7) on each of

the four (4) components – speaking, reading, listening and writing.

 

 

Please ...note that a successful assessment is valid for two years

from the assessment outcome date.

 

NOTE: Applications

received before 1 July 2010 will be assessed against the current

criteria.

[abz123]

I lodged my 175 in April 2009 (as an accountant) and found out in July that I had do IELTS in order to be processed against the CSL so I don't see what's really new from July this year. Ok, I think I could have done either the general or academic papers at the time (I chose academic as I could get an earlier exam date) so maybe the choice has been taken away.

 

Please don't anyone interpret this next bit as racist but having spoken to one of the major recruitment agencies in Perth, they have a real problem with candidates coming to register with them who have very poor English. Unfortunately English is the global business language (for now) and it is "reasonable" to expect accountants and other professionals to be able to converse articulately in a business environment.

 

I am as guilty as many of only speaking my native tongue and have utmost respect for those who can sit and pass IELTS as a second or even third language.

[Guest Gollywobbler]

From 1 July 2010 the National Institute of Accountants’

assessment criteria for General Skills Migration will include the

requirement of:

 

IELTS Academic Test Report Form (TRF)

Number to show you have a band score of at least seven (7) on each of

the four (4) components – speaking, reading, listening and writing.

 

 

Please ...note that a successful assessment is valid for two years

from the assessment outcome date.

 

NOTE: Applications

received before 1 July 2010 will be assessed against the current

criteria.

 

 

Hi Jag

 

Just as I know nothing about the IT industry, I also run away from Accountancy. Accountancy means Tax law as far as I am concerned and I hate Tax law.

 

Have the NIA now copied the people that you mentioned on your first post in this thread?

 

If yes, are the third Accountancy skills people likely to copy the first two, do you think?

 

Many thanks

 

Gill

[Jag Khairra]

NIA website link: NIA - National Institute of Accountants (Your Professional Membership based Accounting Organisation)

 

Hi Gill,

 

All skill assessing bodies now seem to have uniform assessment criteria (IELTS requirement etc) applicable from 1st July 2010.

 

Also, to remember that compulsory subjects are mentioned for each of the 4 ASCO codes on websites of CPA, NIA and ICA.

[Guest backspace]

@ Jane1991 & Graemesay:

No worries... I always welcome constructive feedback and criticism... it's part and parcel of having a discussion.....

 

And in regards to the compulsory subjects if you graduated from universities outside Australia, I am pretty sure the CPA website has links and information in regards to subjects required....

[Shaz36]

Which is faster for Migration Assessment for CIMA? CPA or ICAA?

 

Hi,

The ICAA has the fastest processing time, I believe. That is who I used last year, and got my result within 2 weeks, as I paid slightly more for their priority processing service.

 

Shaz

[Guest monster]

Shaz was correct. ICAA has the fastest processing time. I reckon they have the fast track thing which will be 2-3 weeks but you need need to pay few dollars more...I got mine from NIA and it took them almost 6weeks considering the series of phone calls I did for follow-ups...

 

 

Hi,

The ICAA has the fastest processing time, I believe. That is who I used last year, and got my result within 2 weeks, as I paid slightly more for their priority processing service.

 

Shaz

[Jag Khairra]

NIA is now offering faster processing options for $500 with two options:

 

30 days and 5 days turn around!

 

Also, documents can be certified by Registered Migration Agents! We use them!

[Guest jimmyay]

:cry: it doesn't matter who is faster now cos the gate is temporarily closed till 30thJune 2010!! There goes my CSL status....

 

Subclass 175 – Skilled Independent (Migrant) visa

Subclass 176 – Skilled Sponsored (Migrant) visa

Subclass 475 – Skilled Regional Sponsored (Provisional) visa.

 

(i've submitted my assessment to CPA...thanks to everyone for sharing with me)

[Guest rocking adi]

Hey Mod,

can we please have this thread as sticky thread as well! Because I am assuming after 11th May when the budget is announced some more turmoil can be expected in SOL for accountants. And moreover it is more convenient to check the replies

And Jimmy, I don't think with the current closure/temp suspension there would be any effect on CSL. As if an occupation is on new SOL then they would deemed to get priority. That is the whole purpose of having this SOL.

Cheers

[Guest ochie2008]

Dear Members.. its been long since i made a post. I have been asked by a friend whether they need to take Academic or General IELTS to migrate as accountant. I did mine in 2007 and cannot remember why i actual settle in for academic. Throughout the migration process i did not see this as an issue, but rules keep changing. Can someone please advice whether my friend needs to do Academic or General IELTS.

Thanks

[Guest stelstar]

Dear Members.. its been long since i made a post. I have been asked by a friend whether they need to take Academic or General IELTS to migrate as accountant. I did mine in 2007 and cannot remember why i actual settle in for academic. Throughout the migration process i did not see this as an issue, but rules keep changing. Can someone please advice whether my friend needs to do Academic or General IELTS.

Thanks

Hi,

 

I did my skills assessment a few months ago through ICAA. At the time they didnt care which test you did and they didnt even require proof that you had done it. You only had to provide proof to DIAC. So I just sat the general test.

 

Things have moved on somewhat since then, from the 1st of July your friend will need to sit the academic test and score 7 for each of the four areas before he or she can apply to one of the three assessing bodies to get their skills assessed.

 

Changes to Assessing Criteria from 1 July 2010

 

I guess it would be possible to sit the general test now and then submit skills application before the 1st, but seems a bit pointless really. I am just hoping I don't have to now sit the academic test once all these new changes come in.

 

Hope this helps

[Guest ochie2008]

Hi

Dooes DIAC mind whether its Academic or General?