FlappyChicken Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Which Visa should I apply for until my Work Permit is approved? eVisitor (subclass 651) visa Business - Short Stay (subclass 456) visa ETA (Business Entrant) - Long Validity (subclass 956) visa I need to be in Australia from February to commence work and not sure which visa to apply for that will enable me to do 'skilled' work until the WP is approved. Thanks for any advice! FC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlappyChicken Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 have been offered a position in Sydney starting 1st February 2010. The following information has been written into my contract "This offer of employment is subject to the necessary work visa being granted." I am not sure what this Work Visa is but my wife can work on this Visa as well. I work in the area of IT Consultancy more specifically SAP, which I believe is on the skills shortage list. I will not be in a position to apply for the Work Visa until 11th January 2010 and I believe this takes between 3 to 6 weeks to be granted. Whilst waiting for the Work Visa the Company would like me to fly to Australia and commence 'an advisory role' until the Work Visa is granted. So the enquiry is which Visa do I apply for in the interim period? eVisitor (subclass 651) visa Business - Short Stay (subclass 456) visa ETA (Business Entrant) - Long Validity (subclass 956) visa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 have been offered a position in Sydney starting 1st February 2010. The following information has been written into my contract "This offer of employment is subject to the necessary work visa being granted." I am not sure what this Work Visa is but my wife can work on this Visa as well. I work in the area of IT Consultancy more specifically SAP, which I believe is on the skills shortage list. I will not be in a position to apply for the Work Visa until 11th January 2010 and I believe this takes between 3 to 6 weeks to be granted. Whilst waiting for the Work Visa the Company would like me to fly to Australia and commence 'an advisory role' until the Work Visa is granted. So the enquiry is which Visa do I apply for in the interim period? eVisitor (subclass 651) visa Business - Short Stay (subclass 456) visa ETA (Business Entrant) - Long Validity (subclass 956) visa If I were you , I would refuse to do as the company says, without some very good legal advice behind me. Presumably you have not been provided with that as you are asking a bunch of strangers on an internet forum. Anyway you certainly cannot work on the eVisitor visa and even the other two say you cannot work, they are for business visits. As I would presume the company would be paying you then this would surely count as "work". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlappyChicken Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 If I were you , I would refuse to do as the company says, without some very good legal advice behind me. Presumably you have not been provided with that as you are asking a bunch of strangers on an internet forum. :embarrassed: Oh dear - Thanks Pumpkin, any suggestions who I could ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 :embarrassed: Oh dear - Thanks Pumpkin, any suggestions who I could ask? Don't you think if the company want you to go down this path, they should provide you with thw legal and immigration advice to go with it? I do. I think without the right advice behind you, you are risking being in breach of visa conditions and I don't know what happens then, a ban maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Hi Flappy Chicken Welcome to Poms in Oz. There is no such thing as a Work Permit visa for Australia. In the scenario you describe, the employer is either offering a temporary employer sponsored subclass 457 visa or he is offering immediate Permanent Residency on an ENS subclass 121 visa instead. The 457 visa - note that it is temporary and in Sydney you would have to pay school fees at full international rates for any school aged children (about AUD $5K per child per year on average but check with the NSW Dept of Education.) Temporary Business (Long Stay) - Standard Business Sponsorship (Subclass 457) The ENS 121 visa: Employer Nomination Scheme (Subclass 121/856) Employer Sponsored Migration Booklet - Australian Immigration There is nothing sinister about the employer's vagueness about which visa. The guy dealing with recruitment leaves it to HR to sort out which visa and HR might leave that bit to a migration agent to work out. The recruitment team merely want you in Australia asap and they don't realise that which visa you would be on is crucial to you. My guess is that HR would plump for the 457 visa because otherwise there would be talk of your needing to get a pre application skills assessment, probably from the Australian Computer Society I would guess, since you are an IT wizard it seems? A-Z Occupations List - Australian Skills Recognition Information I would suggest that you speak to HR and find out which visa they have in mind? Do they also have a migration agent in mind? If so, which one do they intend to use? Personally I am not happy with the notion (though Australian law and practice both permit it) that the same migration agent acts for both employer and employee with employer sponsored visas. He who pays the piper calls the tune and if the agent is regularly retained by the employer, what is in the migrant employee's best interests can easily be pushed to one side. The Law Society of England & Wales would say that there is definitely a potential conflict of interest in this scenario and they would be right imho but you can't easily have two migration agent working on the same visa application either because that isn't how visa applications readily work. You cannot start work for the company in Australia until either the 457 or the 121 visa is granted. It is as simple as that, as Pumpkin has said. In your shoes I'd have a word with George Lombard in Sydney as well because unless he already acts for your prospective employer, for the sake of a couple of hundred AUDs, George would provide you with formal advice about what is in your own best interests, independently of anyone or anything else. I wouldn't head for Sydney in your shoes without speaking to George for at least an hour first: Profile | George Lombard Consultancy Pty. Ltd. Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlappyChicken Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 Hi Flappy Chicken Welcome to Poms in Oz. There is no such thing as a Work Permit visa for Australia. In the scenario you describe, the employer is either offering a temporary employer sponsored subclass 457 visa or he is offering immediate Permanent Residency on an ENS subclass 121 visa instead. The 457 visa - note that it is temporary and in Sydney you would have to pay school fees at full international rates for any school aged children (about AUD $5K per child per year on average but check with the NSW Dept of Education.) Temporary Business (Long Stay) - Standard Business Sponsorship (Subclass 457) The ENS 121 visa: Employer Nomination Scheme (Subclass 121/856) Employer Sponsored Migration Booklet - Australian Immigration There is nothing sinister about the employer's vagueness about which visa. The guy dealing with recruitment leaves it to HR to sort out which visa and HR might leave that bit to a migration agent to work out. The recruitment team merely want you in Australia asap and they don't realise that which visa you would be on is crucial to you. My guess is that HR would plump for the 457 visa because otherwise there would be talk of your needing to get a pre application skills assessment, probably from the Australian Computer Society I would guess, since you are an IT wizard it seems? A-Z Occupations List - Australian Skills Recognition Information I would suggest that you speak to HR and find out which visa they have in mind? Do they also have a migration agent in mind? If so, which one do they intend to use? Personally I am not happy with the notion (though Australian law and practice both permit it) that the same migration agent acts for both employer and employee with employer sponsored visas. He who pays the piper calls the tune and if the agent is regularly retained by the employer, what is in the migrant employee's best interests can easily be pushed to one side. The Law Society of England & Wales would say that there is definitely a potential conflict of interest in this scenario and they would be right imho but you can't easily have two migration agent working on the same visa application either because that isn't how visa applications readily work. You cannot start work for the company in Australia until either the 457 or the 121 visa is granted. It is as simple as that, as Pumpkin has said. In your shoes I'd have a word with George Lombard in Sydney as well because unless he already acts for your prospective employer, for the sake of a couple of hundred AUDs, George would provide you with formal advice about what is in your own best interests, independently of anyone or anything else. I wouldn't head for Sydney in your shoes without speaking to George for at least an hour first: Profile | George Lombard Consultancy Pty. Ltd. Cheers Gill Thanks Gill That is extremely helpful. The plan is to visit Australia in the interim period before the 457 is granted 3-6 weeks I have been quoted, applying 11th Jan. So I need something to cover whilst waiting for this to be granted. So was wondering what I needed for this purpose? Thanks FC PS have sent George Lombard an email. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nm123 Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Your company should not be asking you to start work until your visa is approved. I relocate people for a living... trust me. Most employment contracts will have a clause about the "right to work" which essentially means you hold the correct immigration documents in place to work in that country. At the moment, you don't. Not only could you have problems, but so could your company if they are audited... If you enter on a visitor visa then fine... But you should still not work until your 457 is approved. And you'll need to be very careful going through immigration. Turning up looking for a place to live "while we're waiting for the work permit to come through" might not be seen too favourably by immigration officers. Not worth it in my view. 456's should be very short term - ie no more than 3 weeks. But even under that I'm pretty sure you shouldn't be "working" and should only really be attending meetings/training etc. Not your usual day job. If your employer is insistent they are either arrogant or stupid and should really not expect to you to take such risks on their behalf. However, if they keep on about this, I'd make something up about "wife wants me here to help pack up and get ready for move, therefore jetting off to Oz isn't ideal" - any decent company would take personal circumstances into consideration when moving an employee and their FAMILY abroad. In my company we don't expect people to drop everything... It's about getting the balance between internal and external constraints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlappyChicken Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 Your company should not be asking you to start work until your visa is approved. I relocate people for a living... trust me. Most employment contracts will have a clause about the "right to work" which essentially means you hold the correct immigration documents in place to work in that country. At the moment, you don't. Not only could you have problems, but so could your company if they are audited... If you enter on a visitor visa then fine... But you should still not work until your 457 is approved. And you'll need to be very careful going through immigration. Turning up looking for a place to live "while we're waiting for the work permit to come through" might not be seen too favourably by immigration officers. Not worth it in my view. 456's should be very short term - ie no more than 3 weeks. But even under that I'm pretty sure you shouldn't be "working" and should only really be attending meetings/training etc. Not your usual day job. If your employer is insistent they are either arrogant or stupid and should really not expect to you to take such risks on their behalf. However, if they keep on about this, I'd make something up about "wife wants me here to help pack up and get ready for move, therefore jetting off to Oz isn't ideal" - any decent company would take personal circumstances into consideration when moving an employee and their FAMILY abroad. In my company we don't expect people to drop everything... It's about getting the balance between internal and external constraints. Thanks for the info nm123. I think they want me out there ready to start as soon as the 457 is granted, and I will only really be attending meetings/training/settling in etc. So as you say I will only need a visitors visa. However, I am not sure which one to apply for in the interim, would it be an ETA (Business Entrant) - Long Validity (subclass 956) visa through a travel agent, airline, specialist service provider or an Australian visa office outside Australia. So in theory when I book my flight the I could ask the airline to do this for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Thanks for the info nm123. I think they want me out there ready to start as soon as the 457 is granted, and I will only really be attending meetings/training/settling in etc. So as you say I will only need a visitors visa. However, I am not sure which one to apply for in the interim, would it be an ETA (Business Entrant) - Long Validity (subclass 956) visa through a travel agent, airline, specialist service provider or an Australian visa office outside Australia. So in theory when I book my flight the I could ask the airline to do this for me? Hi FC The 456 is the only one that will permit you to attend "business meetings" but personally I'd wait to see what George Lombard says about the idea. Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nm123 Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Thanks for the info nm123. I think they want me out there ready to start as soon as the 457 is granted, and I will only really be attending meetings/training/settling in etc. So as you say I will only need a visitors visa. However, I am not sure which one to apply for in the interim, would it be an ETA (Business Entrant) - Long Validity (subclass 956) visa through a travel agent, airline, specialist service provider or an Australian visa office outside Australia. So in theory when I book my flight the I could ask the airline to do this for me? Umm. My personal view is that you should stay out of Australia while your 457 is being applied for. Can I ask if your company is using an immigration firm to apply for the 457? If so, they should be able to advise on your situation. My own 457 is being applied for now. I'll keep you posted on how long it takes, but if you were in my company I'd be telling you to stay put for the couple of weeks it'll take. Is it THAT imperative that you are there now, even at the risk of delaying/confusing your 457 application?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Have a read here for information about visa condition 8112: Agents Gateway - Changes to revised policy – Condition 8112 Then discuss with a competent migration advisor (as Gill has suggested). Best regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thebexta Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Hi again FC My reply has nothing to do with Visa's! Have been out of the workforce for a bit but my last role was in payroll and I thought you might like to know about LAFHA - Living Away From Home Allowance. Hopefully it still exists! Not sure what kind of salary package you've been offered/have accepted but basically if part of your remuneration (its up to a certain limit set by ATO) is paid to you as LAFHA it is tax free ..... i.e your net pay will be greater. Might make up for the school fees mentioned in an earlier reply!! :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest missvet Posted March 1, 2010 Share Posted March 1, 2010 Hi! I was just wondering what you decided to do in the end FC? I'm in a similar situation. Its 7 weeks since I applied for my 457 and my employer asked me over a month ago to go out on another visa while I wait. My CO advised against this so I forwarded the email from my CO to my employer. Starting to stress now as I haven't heard from my employer in over a month and my CO won't reply to my emails! I know of other people who've gone out on holiday visas while waiting for their 457 but it sounds too risky! I suppose my only option is to wait... trying to phone my employer tonight to see if they still want me... :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GeorgeD Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 I'd be worried about entering on a tourist visa if I were you...I am shortly going to apply for a Partner Visa and asked the High Commission in London if I could travel to Australia on a eVisitor after our imminent wedding and apply onshore. Here is their response from 24th Feb 2010: "The Department of Immigration and Citizenship specifies that non-Australian citizens travelling to Australia should enter Australia on an appropriate visa for their intended purpose of stay and length of stay. If you are intending to move to Australia and live there permanently, you should obtain an appropriate migration visa before you go. If an Immigration Officer at the Australian border is not satisfied that you are travelling on the most appropriate visa for your intention of stay, they have the right to refuse entry into Australia." I suppose the last line is the key one here...you might get caught, you might not. Do you want to take the chance, and how would refused entry and breach of visa conditions look on your record for the progress of your visa application? I decided not to take the chance. If you are going for work, your baggage might look a bit different...work related clothing, business suits, etc...would a tourist bring them? Also, what happens if there is a hold up with your visa application, if further info is required? Or if you have an accident at work, or are pulled over for having a bulb out on your car driving in the rush hour to work...these are all things which have a very small possibility of happening, but if they do...do you want to continue the bluff that you are there for tourist purposes only and hope you don't get found out? These were the things that went through my mind, and my Fiancee and I have decided to wait until after our wedding for me to apply from the UK and wait for the visa to be approved before entering the country. I would urge you to seriously consider the risks...also, would your employer be happy to have someone working on their premises who they know does not have a visa which allows them to work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raul Senise Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 I would suggest reading this http://www.immi.gov.au/gateways/agents/pdf/subclass-457-visitors.pdf Hope it helps. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest missvet Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Thank you ABA and GeorgeD... I just wanted to be reassured that I was doing the right thing really! Definitely too risky! I'll just wait.... :dull: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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