Debt - A New Years message

[Guest LukeSkywalker]

Firstly Happy New Year to everyone here. I know its early, but I've been away for the past few weeks and go back New Years Eve. And to any members of the British Armed Forces reading this - you simply ARE the best in the world. 100% for sure. Definately. Much of my new found optimism for the UK comes from seeing the utter dedication and genius of our armed forces at first hand recently. They represent the true values of this nation. They give me hope for the country. All so very young. All so very brave.

 

Anyway. For assorted personal reasons my family and I will be staying in the UK for the next 18 months to study (finish A levels - thank you for your advice Quoll), train (playing football for Arsenal), teach kids with behavioral issues (my wife likes it, I'd have them shot) and to fight against Islamification and for Scottish Independance (thats my aim).

 

OK enough of that. Down to business. I've been researching debt levels quite a lot. Now we know the UK is in deep trouble debt wise. We know for sure because the papers tell us so - right? But the facts are actually quite interesting.

 

The UK has LOWER toal debt (as a %age of GDP) than the US, Germany, Spain, Japan, Italy, Ireland and ...... Australia. In fact, the UK has the LOWEST level of debt of all the leading developed economies of the world. Its 68.7% of GDP compares favourably with the US (84.8%), Italy (115.8%) and Japan (218.6%) in particular.

 

Why the markets etc are worried is that the unelected Scottish dictator, Crash Gordon, has created this debt in record time. With luck he will be swept for office and sent back to his homeland in or around May time. Economic policies dreamed up on the playing fields of Eton (i.e. well educated) will always be better than the hair brained schemes of an inbred from a foreign land.

 

It isn't just the national but our personal debt is lower than Australia. Reserve Bank figures show personal debt now equates to 100.4 per cent of Australia's annual GDP, one of the highest ratios in the developed world.

 

Interestingly the UKs debt peaked (in 2007) at 100.5% of annual GDP.

 

What has propelled Australian debt? Property. What did the UKs? property.

 

This is an interesting read:

 

ABC The Drum Unleashed - Drowning in debt

 

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Australia will collapse. The country as a whole will prosper as a result of resources. BUT I guess what I am saying is that there isn't going to be anywhere immune from the debt levels that have been racked up in the Western World (all of it) in the last few years.

 

My bro in law is not what one would call a classically "bright" man. A miner (Aussie style so he never went below ground). BUT he has an incredible common sense radar. Probably what kept him alive when as he said several times "another one form Uni got run over by a truck yesterday". His outlook on life is simple. Keep your debt low. Live on what you earn (or less). Put money aside for the rainy day that WILL arrive.

 

His latest theory? Australia is about 2-3 years behind the UK.

 

Debt levels soaring.

Government %age of workers soaring.

Infrastructure poor (and getting worse).

 

Not saying he is right or I am right.

 

Merely that there is a different perspective. Australia body swerved the 2009 recession, and the UK caught it full on. But a body swerve is not the same as avoiding. Debt levels will come home to roost. The UK can now tackle the issue. Rudd will do what all Socialists do - avoid it until it is a crisis.

 

I am slightly more optimistic for the UK now that I was a few months ago. Job levels are on the increase in the private sector (IT I know about, not other sectors) AND I detect that amongst my frieds a new reallity is kicking in. More and more of them have had enough of debt, immigration, Islamification, Labour and political correctness.

 

I think the winds of change are starting to blow. Britain is starting (I hope) to start to get ready to move forwards. 2010 could see the start of the renaissance of Britain.

 

We are battered and bruised thanks to the folly of debt and socialism. BUT sore as we are, we are not beaten.

[Guest Andy]

Good positive post, hope you are right and Brown is sent packing back to Scotland with the rest of his cronies, but i am sure he has feathered his nest in preparation if you know what i mean!

[paulv]

Firstly Happy New Year to everyone here. I know its early, but I've been away for the past few weeks and go back New Years Eve. And to any members of the British Armed Forces reading this - you simply ARE the best in the world. 100% for sure. Definately. Much of my new found optimism for the UK comes from seeing the utter dedication and genius of our armed forces at first hand recently. They represent the true values of this nation. They give me hope for the country. All so very young. All so very brave.

 

Anyway. For assorted personal reasons my family and I will be staying in the UK for the next 18 months to study (finish A levels - thank you for your advice Quoll), train (playing football for Arsenal), teach kids with behavioral issues (my wife likes it, I'd have them shot) and to fight against Islamification and for Scottish Independance (thats my aim).

 

OK enough of that. Down to business. I've been researching debt levels quite a lot. Now we know the UK is in deep trouble debt wise. We know for sure because the papers tell us so - right? But the facts are actually quite interesting.

 

The UK has LOWER toal debt (as a %age of GDP) than the US, Germany, Spain, Japan, Italy, Ireland and ...... Australia. In fact, the UK has the LOWEST level of debt of all the leading developed economies of the world. Its 68.7% of GDP compares favourably with the US (84.8%), Italy (115.8%) and Japan (218.6%) in particular.

 

Why the markets etc are worried is that the unelected Scottish dictator, Crash Gordon, has created this debt in record time. With luck he will be swept for office and sent back to his homeland in or around May time. Economic policies dreamed up on the playing fields of Eton (i.e. well educated) will always be better than the hair brained schemes of an inbred from a foreign land.

 

It isn't just the national but our personal debt is lower than Australia. Reserve Bank figures show personal debt now equates to 100.4 per cent of Australia's annual GDP, one of the highest ratios in the developed world.

 

Interestingly the UKs debt peaked (in 2007) at 100.5% of annual GDP.

 

What has propelled Australian debt? Property. What did the UKs? property.

 

This is an interesting read:

 

ABC The Drum Unleashed - Drowning in debt

 

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Australia will collapse. The country as a whole will prosper as a result of resources. BUT I guess what I am saying is that there isn't going to be anywhere immune from the debt levels that have been racked up in the Western World (all of it) in the last few years.

 

My bro in law is not what one would call a classically "bright" man. A miner (Aussie style so he never went below ground). BUT he has an incredible common sense radar. Probably what kept him alive when as he said several times "another one form Uni got run over by a truck yesterday". His outlook on life is simple. Keep your debt low. Live on what you earn (or less). Put money aside for the rainy day that WILL arrive.

 

His latest theory? Australia is about 2-3 years behind the UK.

 

Debt levels soaring.

Government %age of workers soaring.

Infrastructure poor (and getting worse).

 

Not saying he is right or I am right.

 

Merely that there is a different perspective. Australia body swerved the 2009 recession, and the UK caught it full on. But a body swerve is not the same as avoiding. Debt levels will come home to roost. The UK can now tackle the issue. Rudd will do what all Socialists do - avoid it until it is a crisis.

 

I am slightly more optimistic for the UK now that I was a few months ago. Job levels are on the increase in the private sector (IT I know about, not other sectors) AND I detect that amongst my frieds a new reallity is kicking in. More and more of them have had enough of debt, immigration, Islamification, Labour and political correctness.

 

I think the winds of change are starting to blow. Britain is starting (I hope) to start to get ready to move forwards. 2010 could see the start of the renaissance of Britain.

 

We are battered and bruised thanks to the folly of debt and socialism. BUT sore as we are, we are not beaten.

 

 

Yeah, it wuz them socialists wot corsed the wurldwide economic milkdown.

Iv onlee they wented to a propa skool, like eaten, none ov dis wud ov append.

[Guest Aldo]

Yeah, it wuz them socialists wot corsed the wurldwide economic milkdown.

Iv onlee they wented to a propa skool, like eaten, none ov dis wud ov append.

Great retort Paul :no:. If i where you i'd stick to debating with us brickies (you might stand a chance)

 

Anyway.......... back to the OP, That was one of the best posts i've read this year:notworthy:

[paulv]

Great retort Paul :no:. If i where you i'd stick to debating with us brickies (you might stand a chance)

 

Anyway.......... back to the OP, That was one of the best posts i've read this year:notworthy:

 

The facts were interesting and informative, the political 'insight' was fourth grade stuff. And don't do the brickies down Aldo, it takes all sorts .

[Guest Guest31881]

Good thought provoking post, whilst I agree with a lot of your comments there are others that I do not hold the same opinion as you, but it would be a boring site if we all agreed on everything.

 

One thing I would like to throw into the debate is, What happens if we have a 'Hung Parliament' and no one party holds an overall majority, I think that would be a disaster for the UK economy as the Business world and the 'money men' could and probably would lose confidence in the UK's ability to recovery and any improvements made before the election could be wiped out and plunges the UK into another period of insecurity..

[bunbury61]

Firstly Happy New Year to everyone here. I know its early, but I've been away for the past few weeks and go back New Years Eve. And to any members of the British Armed Forces reading this - you simply ARE the best in the world. 100% for sure. Definately. Much of my new found optimism for the UK comes from seeing the utter dedication and genius of our armed forces at first hand recently. They represent the true values of this nation. They give me hope for the country. All so very young. All so very brave.

 

Anyway. For assorted personal reasons my family and I will be staying in the UK for the next 18 months to study (finish A levels - thank you for your advice Quoll), train (playing football for Arsenal), teach kids with behavioral issues (my wife likes it, I'd have them shot) and to fight against Islamification and for Scottish Independance (thats my aim).

 

OK enough of that. Down to business. I've been researching debt levels quite a lot. Now we know the UK is in deep trouble debt wise. We know for sure because the papers tell us so - right? But the facts are actually quite interesting.

 

The UK has LOWER toal debt (as a %age of GDP) than the US, Germany, Spain, Japan, Italy, Ireland and ...... Australia. In fact, the UK has the LOWEST level of debt of all the leading developed economies of the world. Its 68.7% of GDP compares favourably with the US (84.8%), Italy (115.8%) and Japan (218.6%) in particular.

 

Why the markets etc are worried is that the unelected Scottish dictator, Crash Gordon, has created this debt in record time. With luck he will be swept for office and sent back to his homeland in or around May time. Economic policies dreamed up on the playing fields of Eton (i.e. well educated) will always be better than the hair brained schemes of an inbred from a foreign land.

 

It isn't just the national but our personal debt is lower than Australia. Reserve Bank figures show personal debt now equates to 100.4 per cent of Australia's annual GDP, one of the highest ratios in the developed world.

 

Interestingly the UKs debt peaked (in 2007) at 100.5% of annual GDP.

 

What has propelled Australian debt? Property. What did the UKs? property.

 

This is an interesting read:

 

ABC The Drum Unleashed - Drowning in debt

 

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Australia will collapse. The country as a whole will prosper as a result of resources. BUT I guess what I am saying is that there isn't going to be anywhere immune from the debt levels that have been racked up in the Western World (all of it) in the last few years.

 

My bro in law is not what one would call a classically "bright" man. A miner (Aussie style so he never went below ground). BUT he has an incredible common sense radar. Probably what kept him alive when as he said several times "another one form Uni got run over by a truck yesterday". His outlook on life is simple. Keep your debt low. Live on what you earn (or less). Put money aside for the rainy day that WILL arrive.

 

His latest theory? Australia is about 2-3 years behind the UK.

 

Debt levels soaring.

Government %age of workers soaring.

Infrastructure poor (and getting worse).

 

Not saying he is right or I am right.

 

Merely that there is a different perspective. Australia body swerved the 2009 recession, and the UK caught it full on. But a body swerve is not the same as avoiding. Debt levels will come home to roost. The UK can now tackle the issue. Rudd will do what all Socialists do - avoid it until it is a crisis.

 

I am slightly more optimistic for the UK now that I was a few months ago. Job levels are on the increase in the private sector (IT I know about, not other sectors) AND I detect that amongst my frieds a new reallity is kicking in. More and more of them have had enough of debt, immigration, Islamification, Labour and political correctness.

 

I think the winds of change are starting to blow. Britain is starting (I hope) to start to get ready to move forwards. 2010 could see the start of the renaissance of Britain.

 

We are battered and bruised thanks to the folly of debt and socialism. BUT sore as we are, we are not beaten.

 

Luke , good to see you are staying with us for another 18 months .

When you finally come to realise that you may be leaving the UK for good , it sort of focuses the mind,regarding what you have here in the UK.

As regards the armed forces ( UK and OZ ) ,they are indeed the best in the world .

Iam just feel an immense sense of pride ,that they are ours,

My nephew is at the sharp end ,with the aussie army.....i would hate to see another young life wasted.

Bin Laden has got his wish , draw the allies into an unwinable war ,on his terms,on his ground ,draining our wealth and resources.......its costing billions.

It pains me,watching the news every night,and hearing of another young life lost.

All to bring peace and democracy to a nation that doesnt want it ,or understand it.

NOT ONE MORE BRITISH ,or ALLIED LIFE SHOULD BE LOST .

Pull the troops out , and give the islamic world 6 months to sort their **** out .

A personal warning to Iran ......a warning to the Saudis that the game is up.

That they should stop mosque building in Europe , and the funding of Wahabi Islam ,throughout the Western world.

If there is no joy ...... then they will face the consequences...

A KNIFE THROUGH BUTTER !

[paulv]

Luke , good to see you are staying with us for another 18 months .

When you finally come to realise that you may be leaving the UK for good , it sort of focuses the mind,regarding what you have here in the UK.

As regards the armed forces ( UK and OZ ) ,they are indeed the best in the world .

Iam just feel an immense sense of pride ,that they are ours,

My nephew is at the sharp end ,with the aussie army.....i would hate to see another young life wasted.

Bin Laden has got his wish , draw the allies into an unwinable war ,on his terms,on his ground ,draining our wealth and resources.......its costing billions.

It pains me,watching the news every night,and hearing of another young life lost.

All to bring peace and democracy to a nation that doesnt want it ,or understand it.

NOT ONE MORE BRITISH ,or ALLIED LIFE SHOULD BE LOST .

Pull the troops out , and give the islamic world 6 months to sort their **** out .

A personal warning to Iran ......a warning to the Saudis that the game is up.

That they should stop mosque building in Europe , and the funding of Wahabi Islam ,throughout the Western world.

If there is no joy ...... then they will face the consequences...

A KNIFE THROUGH BUTTER !

 

Does this mark the official end of 'the season of peace and good will to all men' then? :err:

[Guest shark]

Luke , good to see you are staying with us for another 18 months .

When you finally come to realise that you may be leaving the UK for good , it sort of focuses the mind,regarding what you have here in the UK.

As regards the armed forces ( UK and OZ ) ,they are indeed the best in the world .

Iam just feel an immense sense of pride ,that they are ours,

My nephew is at the sharp end ,with the aussie army.....i would hate to see another young life wasted.

Bin Laden has got his wish , draw the allies into an unwinable war ,on his terms,on his ground ,draining our wealth and resources.......its costing billions.

It pains me,watching the news every night,and hearing of another young life lost.

All to bring peace and democracy to a nation that doesnt want it ,or understand it.

NOT ONE MORE BRITISH ,or ALLIED LIFE SHOULD BE LOST .

Pull the troops out , and give the islamic world 6 months to sort their **** out .

A personal warning to Iran ......a warning to the Saudis that the game is up.

That they should stop mosque building in Europe , and the funding of Wahabi Islam ,throughout the Western world.

If there is no joy ...... then they will face the consequences...

A KNIFE THROUGH BUTTER !

good post ,i wish bin Gorden brown thought like you.

[Guest LukeSkywalker]

good post ,i wish bin Gorden brown thought like you.

 

I wish he just thought. Before doing anything. The problem is he is not capable of thought, only of populist knee-jerk, pro-Islam, Pro-anything that is anti-English nonsense.

[bunbury61]

Does this mark the official end of 'the season of peace and good will to all men' then? :err:

 

Yeah **** it .....lets get the job done now

[Guest LukeSkywalker]

Yeah **** it .....lets get the job done now

 

I agree - they stopped WW1 for a football match, about 90 minutes. We've had long enough peace and love - as illustrated by the peaceful religion that doesnt have any more terrorists than any other (according to government statistics) trying to blow a plane up on Christmas Day.

[paulv]

I agree - they stopped WW1 for a football match, about 90 minutes. We've had long enough peace and love - as illustrated by the peaceful religion that doesnt have any more terrorists than any other (according to government statistics) trying to blow a plane up on Christmas Day.

 

 

And here was me thinking that it was a man who tried to blow that plane up. Doh!:nah:

[Graemsay]

I'd argue that Australia is in a better position fiscally than the UK.

 

Both countries have private debt on the order of 100% of GDP. However the UK's public debt has risen from around 40% to 70% of GDP in a very short period, and looks likely to reach 100%. In contrast, I believe that Australia's total public debt is on the order of 25% of GDP, split roughly equally between the national government and the states.

 

Furthermore, the UK's spent its ammo: The pound has been devalued, interest rates slashed, and the country's credit line maxed out. If another crisis hits, and my guess is that the next round will be sovereign defaults, then there's not a lot the government can do about it. Australia has more room to manoeuvre.

 

I'd agree that Australia's looking precarious, and the general mood there strikes me as being like the UK in 2006 or 2007.

 

As for other comments: There's probably an over-representation of individuals with private education and Oxbridge degrees in the House of Commons and City, and this didn't stop them from screwing things up; the radicalisation of elements of Islamic society has been accelerated by the foreign policy of Western nations; Gordon Brown's biggest economic mistake was running a budget deficit in the boom times, rather than putting aside money from a surplus for the inevitable downturn.

[Guest LukeSkywalker]

I'd argue that Australia is in a better position fiscally than the UK.

 

Both countries have private debt on the order of 100% of GDP. However the UK's public debt has risen from around 40% to 70% of GDP in a very short period, and looks likely to reach 100%. In contrast, I believe that Australia's total public debt is on the order of 25% of GDP, split roughly equally between the national government and the states.

 

Furthermore, the UK's spent its ammo: The pound has been devalued, interest rates slashed, and the country's credit line maxed out. If another crisis hits, and my guess is that the next round will be sovereign defaults, then there's not a lot the government can do about it. Australia has more room to manoeuvre.

 

I'd agree that Australia's looking precarious, and the general mood there strikes me as being like the UK in 2006 or 2007.

 

As for other comments: There's probably an over-representation of individuals with private education and Oxbridge degrees in the House of Commons and City, and this didn't stop them from screwing things up; the radicalisation of elements of Islamic society has been accelerated by the foreign policy of Western nations; Gordon Brown's biggest economic mistake was running a budget deficit in the boom times, rather than putting aside money from a surplus for the inevitable downturn.

 

I would agree with much of this.

 

But I think the next crisis will be the unwinding of carry trades against the USD - BIG problems there, although that may be due to sovereign debt default.

 

Islamic radicalisation is easy to stop - but nobody has the balls to do it.

[paulv]

I would agree with much of this.

 

But I think the next crisis will be the unwinding of carry trades against the USD - BIG problems there, although that may be due to sovereign debt default.

 

Islamic radicalisation is easy to stop - but nobody has the balls to do it.

 

 

Please enlighten us! I'm sure that there are lots of agencies who would love to know the answer to this:notworthy:

[Guest LukeSkywalker]

Please enlighten us! I'm sure that there are lots of agencies who would love to know the answer to this:notworthy:

 

Wish I could but if you mention the solutions on here they say you are racist.

[Life on easy street]

Firstly Happy New Year to everyone here. I know its early, but I've been away for the past few weeks and go back New Years Eve. And to any members of the British Armed Forces reading this - you simply ARE the best in the world. 100% for sure. Definately. Much of my new found optimism for the UK comes from seeing the utter dedication and genius of our armed forces at first hand recently. They represent the true values of this nation. They give me hope for the country. All so very young. All so very brave.

 

Anyway. For assorted personal reasons my family and I will be staying in the UK for the next 18 months to study (finish A levels - thank you for your advice Quoll), train (playing football for Arsenal), teach kids with behavioral issues (my wife likes it, I'd have them shot) and to fight against Islamification and for Scottish Independance (thats my aim).

 

OK enough of that. Down to business. I've been researching debt levels quite a lot. Now we know the UK is in deep trouble debt wise. We know for sure because the papers tell us so - right? But the facts are actually quite interesting.

 

The UK has LOWER toal debt (as a %age of GDP) than the US, Germany, Spain, Japan, Italy, Ireland and ...... Australia. In fact, the UK has the LOWEST level of debt of all the leading developed economies of the world. Its 68.7% of GDP compares favourably with the US (84.8%), Italy (115.8%) and Japan (218.6%) in particular.

 

Why the markets etc are worried is that the unelected Scottish dictator, Crash Gordon, has created this debt in record time. With luck he will be swept for office and sent back to his homeland in or around May time. Economic policies dreamed up on the playing fields of Eton (i.e. well educated) will always be better than the hair brained schemes of an inbred from a foreign land.

 

It isn't just the national but our personal debt is lower than Australia. Reserve Bank figures show personal debt now equates to 100.4 per cent of Australia's annual GDP, one of the highest ratios in the developed world.

 

Interestingly the UKs debt peaked (in 2007) at 100.5% of annual GDP.

 

What has propelled Australian debt? Property. What did the UKs? property.

 

This is an interesting read:

 

ABC The Drum Unleashed - Drowning in debt

 

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Australia will collapse. The country as a whole will prosper as a result of resources. BUT I guess what I am saying is that there isn't going to be anywhere immune from the debt levels that have been racked up in the Western World (all of it) in the last few years.

 

My bro in law is not what one would call a classically "bright" man. A miner (Aussie style so he never went below ground). BUT he has an incredible common sense radar. Probably what kept him alive when as he said several times "another one form Uni got run over by a truck yesterday". His outlook on life is simple. Keep your debt low. Live on what you earn (or less). Put money aside for the rainy day that WILL arrive.

 

His latest theory? Australia is about 2-3 years behind the UK.

 

Debt levels soaring.

Government %age of workers soaring.

Infrastructure poor (and getting worse).

 

Not saying he is right or I am right.

 

Merely that there is a different perspective. Australia body swerved the 2009 recession, and the UK caught it full on. But a body swerve is not the same as avoiding. Debt levels will come home to roost. The UK can now tackle the issue. Rudd will do what all Socialists do - avoid it until it is a crisis.

 

I am slightly more optimistic for the UK now that I was a few months ago. Job levels are on the increase in the private sector (IT I know about, not other sectors) AND I detect that amongst my frieds a new reallity is kicking in. More and more of them have had enough of debt, immigration, Islamification, Labour and political correctness.

 

I think the winds of change are starting to blow. Britain is starting (I hope) to start to get ready to move forwards. 2010 could see the start of the renaissance of Britain.

 

We are battered and bruised thanks to the folly of debt and socialism. BUT sore as we are, we are not beaten.

 

Great post

 

The link you provided to Prof Steve Keen article at ABC should be read by all prospective Migrants.

 

I have read his forecasts and they make for depressing reading.

Steve Keen's Debtwatch

[Guest LukeSkywalker]

Great post

 

The link you provided to Prof Steve Keen article at ABC should be read by all prospective Migrants.

 

I have read his forecasts and they make for depressing reading.

Steve Keen's Debtwatch

 

Ah thanks for the link to his website. Just reading it now, and you are right it is depressing. Personal debt at these levels is insane. All prospective migrants should read this. The world is in the merde. Big time.

[Quoll]

Kris Sayce is another one worth an occasional look Australian Financial Market News | Money Morning Australia He's a small cap investor type so does have an agenda (but dont they all)

 

He and Steve Keen are on a similar page most of the time. Steve had to walk to Koscioscko recently because he lost a bet and things werent panning out as badly as he had predicted but there are those out there who say this is the bounce before the big fall.

 

I was always brought up with the "neither a borrower nor a lender be" ringing in my ears and apart from a mortgage (now happily a thing of the past) we havent been in debt, preferring to save up for something before we get it but I can see how alluring a big credit card limit is (I do have a credit card and use it for everything but pay it off in full every month - why use my money when I can use theirs for a little while).

 

I think merde just about describes it!

[Guest pegasus 90]

Great post

 

The link you provided to Prof Steve Keen article at ABC should be read by all prospective Migrants.

 

I have read his forecasts and they make for depressing reading.

Steve Keen's Debtwatch

Whilst I can't corroborate the figures, I do agree with the points raised. I thought I'd chuck in my 2 pennie worth. Here in Western Australia we have completely bypassed the GFC, which has been sustained by the resources sector; "great" people say, but it alarms me that our economy is so dependant on one industry. A lot of the mining companies are being swallowed up by Chinese firms so the profits will disappear overseas. Secondly, we have enjoyed the last 3-4 years in this boom time but have seen very little infrastructure introduced; you have to ask yourself why after so many years of massive economic growth, virtually all the state governments are in deficit ( a classic case of spending up big and no thought for the long term).

Lot's of people are getting excited about the large construction projects like Gorgon LNG etc, but I work in an allied industry and have some dealings on this job, and I have seen docs that stipulate that a high percentage of the infrastructure work must be manufactured & supplied from Asia & Autralian products will not be accepted!.

We now see some major infrastructure projects happening around the country, but they are a result of Rudd's stimulus package; not financed by the cash made during the boom; so in effect paid for with public debt.

I also worry about the fact that Australia has virtually lost all it's manufacturing but has not made that transition to a more service based economy like the U.K did many years ago. So yes I believe that if in fact oz is a couple of years behind Europe, then it is in for a rocky road indeed.

One other thing that has saved Australia's bacon is that the banks here are extremely profitable and were not exposed to sub prime to any degree. The bad side is that they are very uncompetitive, protectionist & bureacratic: bad for service but overall have saved the economy.

[Guest LukeSkywalker]

Whilst I can't corroborate the figures, I do agree with the points raised. I thought I'd chuck in my 2 pennie worth. Here in Western Australia we have completely bypassed the GFC, which has been sustained by the resources sector; "great" people say, but it alarms me that our economy is so dependant on one industry. A lot of the mining companies are being swallowed up by Chinese firms so the profits will disappear overseas. Secondly, we have enjoyed the last 3-4 years in this boom time but have seen very little infrastructure introduced; you have to ask yourself why after so many years of massive economic growth, virtually all the state governments are in deficit ( a classic case of spending up big and no thought for the long term).

Lot's of people are getting excited about the large construction projects like Gorgon LNG etc, but I work in an allied industry and have some dealings on this job, and I have seen docs that stipulate that a high percentage of the infrastructure work must be manufactured & supplied from Asia & Autralian products will not be accepted!.

We now see some major infrastructure projects happening around the country, but they are a result of Rudd's stimulus package; not financed by the cash made during the boom; so in effect paid for with public debt.

I also worry about the fact that Australia has virtually lost all it's manufacturing but has not made that transition to a more service based economy like the U.K did many years ago. So yes I believe that if in fact oz is a couple of years behind Europe, then it is in for a rocky road indeed.

One other thing that has saved Australia's bacon is that the banks here are extremely profitable and were not exposed to sub prime to any degree. The bad side is that they are very uncompetitive, protectionist & bureacratic: bad for service but overall have saved the economy.

 

Several excellent points here. The rise of the Chinese is one note of caution for us all.

I work in Africa every now and again, and many of the countries I go to there now look like Chinese military outposts. They are for example building roads all through Kenya (and mines right alongside them).

 

On the subprime issue, Australias banks seem to be starting to create a sub-prime all of their own. I saw some absolutely sh1te properties recently in Melbourne being sold at insane prices. That is exactly what happened in America in 2006/7.

 

As for manufacturing, you are spot on. Same in the UK. Gordon Brown and his incapable crowd of uneducated morons have failed to realise that with no manufacturing base the UK is knackered. They have coupled this with a desire to destroy the service sector via punative taxation. The UKs top rate of tax is now 62.8% (uncapped national insurance is also a tax - socialists forget that).

 

Low tax is what builds economies (and their wonderful solution to the current problem is to .... raise taxes!!!).

 

That was the reason I moved the HQ of my businesses overseas before selling it - lower tax. I had to stay out for the UK for 192 days in each of 2 years. By doing that I paid 5% tax on the sale of my business. Had I stayed here it would have been 53%. A no brainer. I would happily have paid 20%. Thats a small example of how the UK lost a nice sum of money to me and my co-directors. Socialism doesnt work. Same thing in Australia - the corporation tax need to be lowered to sto companies shippng it overseas.

 

Small businesses need to be encouraged - ultra low tax rates for them. BUT this should be couple with MASSIVE fines for tax dodgers and also the complete elimination of all loopholes. Remove the ability of clever accountants to reduce tax to zero BUT at the same time reduce the rate to approx 25%. Why should someone work for years to build up a business and then pay over 60% on the sale in tax? Likewise the inheritance tax threshold must be increased to at least £5m. Why should my kids lose 40% of their inheritance to the UK government if I am killed tomorrow?

 

All of these problems come down to society spending more than it can afford. And spending it on insane things. I beleive it would be simple to save 40% of UK government spending. If Asia is the model of efficiency that we are all to look at then the chickens are going to come home to roost big time.

 

As I have said before - the whole world is in the sh1t. Take care of your own is my motto. There is no such thing as equality - all men are NOT created equal.

 

The state must exists to provide a hand up and not hand outs. Stop penalising hard workers (brickies to bankers) to give free monet and housing to people that are fundamentally lazy.

 

Ultimately I think a spell of high inflation will be what will re-set the world economy. With oil heading back to $100 I think we will see that happen - and this will also cause a lot of globalisation to be rolled back. Transporting goods at $100 a barrel is inefficient and costly. More industries will switch back to their own countries. The "oil boom" will be seen as a very small blip on civilisation - lastign basically 50-60 years out of 40,000 years of mankind. It will be ugly - its just a question of when.

[Guest pegasus 90]

If Oz really does follow into this financial crisis in 1-2 years time, I believe that it will be in deep trouble as I just don't believe it has the diverse economy like most European countries.

I am returning to the UK next year so I guess I'll see what 11 odd years of Labour rule has achieved. Personally (judging by past experience) they will have ballsed it up as Labour always seem to do. Funny how it seems that Labour get voted out because they have cocked it up, and the Tories get voted out because they become unpopular!!

Perhaps we could argue that the world needs this recession maybe?,it certainly couldn't continue the way it was going with people borrowing way beyond their means and greedy bankers lending fictitious paper money to all & sundry.

My wife was involved in mortgage broking for a while and was shocked at the general financial position of ordinary folks. People are always going on about they don't have enough money where in fact my missus felt the problem was not what they earned; but what they spent! People just dont want to wait for things: now, now. I read a great anology recently which was in reply to the tripe that things are harder nowdays for the younger generation. This article basically said that it isn't harder, it's just that there are more things to spend your money on nowdays which entices people to lose all their priorities.

[heyyu]

i'd rather trust the reserve bank information than the speculators and your falling into the trap of comparing oz with gb,this is a different country with different trading partners and different rules,we were affected by the recession but not to the extent of some others,house prices did go down but they have recovered,just because our economy recovered faster than some doesn't mean were 2 years behind GB.MAYBE WE DONT FOLLOW ENGLAND ANYMORE maybe she'll follow us

[TheBrammies]

Enjoyed reading your post

i agree with you on the armed forces they are respected enough by the young they are doing there job and doing it well its easy to say which countries we should be involved in and which we shouldn't sat in our arm chairs.

i didnt leave the uk because of the economy,the markets aren't worried about the amount of debt the uk is in at present its 3 years time when it reaches its peak and as you said its the speed of the debt there has to be major cutbacks,and you have to look at your own circumstances even if the uk goes bust life goes on and alot of people will still be comfortable.i left for a better family ie tonight is new years eve there are events in rockingham,perth,mandurah that are for families alcohol free events ending in fireworks i dont recall any family new years eve parties in the uk.i dont here on the news every night about stabbings and murders im sure they still happen but there isnt the level of media coverage bombarding our children if teenagers dont think its cool or that there bad ass gangsters by carry knives they wont carry them,Australia is far from perfect and there are many things i miss the economy with be fine because of the minerals just dont follow the crowd with debt and you will be fine but my family do have a better life here for now if that changes then so will we i think you've made a sensible decision for your family and after all thats what its all about so i wish you a Happy New Year and a prosperous one