Barwick Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 (edited) Hi, I emailed WAGO (government of western australia european offidiploma Highin london) earlier this week asking if tgey were aware of Diploma students not being registered with AHPRA, They said they are not aware of nurses from the uk with a diploma not being registered, she says it is her understanding that you need 12 months exoerience in the uk to be eligible to register in Australia if you completed a diploma. She attached criteria that international nurses must meet, but basically said that according to this your qualification has to be substantially equivalent to a board-approved Australian qualification. She then referred me to AHPRA for any further questions. Not sure if this helps us though... Looking through there board approved programs of study one of the diploma courses on there is only 14 montgs are they seriously saying thec3 years we did is equivalent to that, I think not, wgen I did my course back in 2002 the degree students didn't do that much more was only the 3rd year which was slightly different, only reason I couldn't do it as couldn't fund it at the time. Haven't thought to progress to a degree since qualifying as busy learning my specialty of nursing (theatres, - scrub, anaesthetics and recovery) and also had 2 children since qualifying in 2005, when I did the diploma the tutors said it wasn't necessary to do the degree then and was sometimes better to wait and do it in your chosen specialty. Edited July 4, 2014 by Barwick found additional information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiegirl68 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 (edited) Well in a way, it does, this is our argument on twitter! Our diploma has long been considered a bachelor equivalent, (as the Oz diploma takes 18 months) until the recent changes, as we do the same 3 year course as the degree nurses, they have to do more academic modules, but that does not make them any more able to be a practising registered nurse than us! NO consideration is given for post reg experience! And that's the sad thing, AHPRA are turning away lots of nurses with many years of experience! purely on the basis that their initial qualification was not degree! Although, as you'll see on Twitter, I'm awaiting a reply on why the UK Dip HE is now considered an AQF6, when it fulfils ALL THE AQF7 specifications! Edited July 4, 2014 by geordiegirl68 grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiegirl68 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 (edited) And on that note, I must resign from my Twitter campaign! My OH thinks I am becoming a little too vocal! Please please please, all DipHE nurses, read the AQF 6 and 7 specifications. ANMAC assess us as AQF7, but AHPRA have decided we are no more than AQF6! You all need to compare what you have done, (quals and experience) to the criteria listed! And add your voice to the twitter campaign! If lots of us draw attention to this, they will take notice. Notices have appeared on their website, that can be linked to issues raised on twitter! Edited July 4, 2014 by geordiegirl68 grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joby Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 And on that note, I must resign from my Twitter campaign! My OH thinks I am becoming a little too vocal! Please please please, all DipHE nurses, read the AQF 6 and 7 specifications. ANMAC assess us as AQF7, but AHPRA have decided we are no more than AQF6! You all need to compare what you have done, (quals and experience) to the criteria listed! And add your voice to the twitter campaign! If lots of us draw attention to this, they will take notice. Notices have appeared on their website, that can be linked to issues raised on twitter! please don't resign from twitter- weust be making a difference as they have updated their website with more info albeit too late for us. We have to keep on at them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyv Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 I agree with Joby Geordiegirl, the tweets have forced them to publish new info, maybe they will rethink the aqf comparison! Its not like you are using your full name anyway. You go girl! X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiegirl68 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 I won't resign, I doubt I can keep my own council! I keep telling myself not to press send, then do! and I think until they answer the question, which let's face it, they can't, I'll keep asking, because if they were using the AQF correctly, as ANMAC do, we'd all be AQF7 and they couldn't refuse us, and this whole sorry mess would never have started, as it's the only thing that we are being refused for! Our experience, and NMC histories are all impeccable. I just wish they could understand it takes more than a bit of paper you walk out of uni with to make you a nurse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edzi Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Hi, I sent my AHPRA application 31 October 2013. Along the way I have been asked for numerous extra evidence. The board have looked at it again and decided need more evidence re: 2, 5 & 8. 2 will be fine because uni did the template for criteria 2 but only did it for the advanced diploma timeframe and not the top up degree part so they can just send that again. Criteria 5 - stuck. They were happy with the hours on placement and the variety of settings and it all meets the criteria for my advanced diploma but they need it for the top up degree. Well I havent done any placements because I did a mentorship course and research (2 modules) that is all. I rang ahpra but they must have this information. Criteria 8 - same again the criteria is fine for my advanced diploma which was sent but they want medications management for the top up. Once again i did not do this in the top up degree. I rang, they still want info. I worked for a year before topping up and was working whilst i was topping up. Has anybody else been asked for this and what did they do? At the moment I have forwarded this email to university and hopefully they will deal with it. Good job my husband has a job to go to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyv Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Hi Edzi. I have been asked for the exact same criteria. I got Uni to send what was possible and wrote a letter explaining that the clinical component was covered during working as a nurse whilst studying and same for medicines management. However....I am waiting for a decision so who knows if they will accept that! :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zog Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Hi, I sent my AHPRA application 31 October 2013. Along the way I have been asked for numerous extra evidence. The board have looked at it again and decided need more evidence re: 2, 5 & 8. 2 will be fine because uni did the template for criteria 2 but only did it for the advanced diploma timeframe and not the top up degree part so they can just send that again. Criteria 5 - stuck. They were happy with the hours on placement and the variety of settings and it all meets the criteria for my advanced diploma but they need it for the top up degree. Well I havent done any placements because I did a mentorship course and research (2 modules) that is all. I rang ahpra but they must have this information. Criteria 8 - same again the criteria is fine for my advanced diploma which was sent but they want medications management for the top up. Once again i did not do this in the top up degree. I rang, they still want info. I worked for a year before topping up and was working whilst i was topping up. Has anybody else been asked for this and what did they do? At the moment I have forwarded this email to university and hopefully they will deal with it. Good job my husband has a job to go to! I have had exactly the same problem. My uni are gunning for me and have been great at getting back to my frantic emails while I am sat in Aus despairing. They have basically said that it there were no specified clinical hours as that was a pre-requisite to qualification and this was a post reg degree, they have also ticked the "medicines" box by relating it to clinical practice and mentorship stating that a component of mentorship is supporting students with medicines management etc. They also included a copy of the syllabus for the pre-reg degree at the time when I was doing the diploma to show that medicines was taught in exactly the same way on both courses and therefore my knowledge would be the same as a degree registered nurse (because of course the 5 years I've been working are irrelevant). I know it's in the post and my uni also emailed my reg officer a PDF of all of the info last week... I haven't heard anything since so I'm just holding my breath and crossing everything that it is enough. Hope that helps x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiegirl68 Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) Hi everybody, This is for those of you who have been assessed by ANMAC, or are already in Oz, suffering by not being able to work. It appears that only healthcare professionals have to prove themselves 3 times over, ANMAC, AHPRA and NMBA. In other professions the skills assessment is enough. I think for those of us who have gone through.visa process, we need to take another course of action, and talk to immigration? There is an MP for immigration, Scott Morrison, and I'm sure he won't be too happy at the thought of immigrants given visas because of their profession, moving to Oz then being refused the right to work! Especially as nurses remain on the SOL list for ALL states! But we need strength in numbers. Those of you at the moment suffering real personal hardship,and many have posted on here, you need to share your plight with him! But he's not going to pay attention to one or two emails! He needs to walk into loads to understand the scale of this! As I've said before, the disparity between ANMACs assessment of us at AQF7 (which reading it, is correct) and AHPRA's assessment of us at AQF5 or 6, is the huge problem, we as UK nurses have one of the toughest training courses in the world, and the NMCs commitment to ongoing professional development, means we are more than able to work as nurses anywhere, AHPRA have taken it down to the piece of paper we leave Uni with, probably as they see it, to bring it line with the UK, but the UK haven't stopped all the diploma nurses from working, so why should Oz? We need to make someone higher up listen! Maybe mention PIO forum, he'd just need to read this thread to understand the situation! Good luck to all. Edited July 6, 2014 by geordiegirl68 grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanny76 Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Hi, I think I will be aske the same as am diploma trained so sent that transcript but Uni only sent module outlines for my top up degree. What Uni did you go to they sound very helpful! Did you just forward ahpra's email on to them? This whole situation is a nightmare! Hope you get sorted soon xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paednurseclaire Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Hi everybody, This is for those of you who have been assessed by ANMAC, or are already in Oz, suffering by not being able to work. It appears that only healthcare professionals have to prove themselves 3 times over, ANMAC, AHPRA and NMBA. In other professions the skills assessment is enough. I think for those of us who have gone through.visa process, we need to take another course of action, and talk to immigration? There is an MP for immigration, Scott Morrison, and I'm sure he won't be too happy at the thought of immigrants given visas because of their profession, moving to Oz then being refused the right to work! Especially as nurses remain on the SOL list for ALL states! But we need strength in numbers. Those of you at the moment suffering real personal hardship,and many have posted on here, you need to share your plight with him! But he's not going to pay attention to one or two emails! He needs to walk into loads to understand the scale of this! As I've said before, the disparity between ANMACs assessment of us at AQF7 (which reading it, is correct) and AHPRA's assessment of us at AQF5 or 6, is the huge problem, we as UK nurses have one of the toughest training courses in the world, and the NMCs commitment to ongoing professional development, means we are more than able to work as nurses anywhere, AHPRA have taken it down to the piece of paper we leave Uni with, probably as they see it, to bring it line with the UK, but the UK haven't stopped all the diploma nurses from working, so why should Oz? We need to make someone higher up listen! Maybe mention PIO forum, he'd just need to read this thread to understand the situation! Good luck to all. Well said....get on your emails people ) once I've got my LOD from ANMAC, he will be my first email. Us UK nurses will not go quietly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bouncy Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Agreed, as soon as my anmac comes back I'll be sending an e mail!! Not sure if this is helpful or just confirming what we know but I emailed a nursing recruitment and relocation agency in oz after seeing people asking them for info on bridging courses. That had a notice on their website stating dip he only nurses from uk should not make any irreversible plans at the minute as ahpra are refusing or referring theses nurses. I asked about those of us with a post grad degree and they said these have been fine just the dip he having problems. They also said how it will never work if they keep to this, and are in discussions with ahpra regarding this. They said most of the nurses they get are dip he so they won't fulfil their skills select quota with these rules in place so something has to change! Glad they agree!! Just thought I'd share!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiegirl68 Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Let's hope it's all filtering through now, we can all see the knock on effect, except AHPRA it would seem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyv Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Thanks for that Bouncy...gives us some hope and reassurance at least! Ahpra may end up doing a massive U turn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrel Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Hi all AHPRA victims! Is it me, or does AHPRA appear to not understand the UK nursing education system in the slightest? I think they believe that when UK nurses top up from Dip HE to degree, we do a full time course not modules that are specialised in our field of nursing. Every day I am in utter disbelief, not sure whether to laugh or cry. I wonder how they would feel if they knew that a Dip HE nurse manager like myself has been a sign off mentor for years and has been responsible for signing off both degree and Dip HE students in their last placement as capable to practice, and even assessed newly qualified nurses in Oral and IV drug administration! Sorry Rant Over On a more proactive note I am currently reasearching international frameworks. I will keep everyone updated if I find anything that will help our cause. Just to reassure you, I have also sent my share of emails to health ministers in AUS outlining our concerns. (Especially regarding the AQF framework misinterpretation.) I am also wondering what people think about contacting the Australian College of Nursing?? Not sure if they would be Pro UK nurses or not. It's good to see that our voices are collectively getting louder on here. Keep up the good work everyone, shows that UK nurses work well as a team! Ha Ha:wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyv Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I wrote to my ahpra case worker to explain how post grad degree modules work and she said "I fully understand your top up degree programme, it has just been helpful to have this confirmed by the University." ?????? So why all the extra requests?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanny76 Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Hi Kelly, what did your Uni send when AHPRA asked for more evidence? I also did a top up degree whilst workin and have sent what the Uni sent me as a transcript of my degree. It just outlines the modules and cat points and verifies it was in English etc? It's not as detailed as my diploma transcript. I am worried about what else I can send if they request more evidence? X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiegirl68 Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) Hi all AHPRA victims! Is it me, or does AHPRA appear to not understand the UK nursing education system in the slightest? I think they believe that when UK nurses top up from Dip HE to degree, we do a full time course not modules that are specialised in our field of nursing. Every day I am in utter disbelief, not sure whether to laugh or cry. I wonder how they would feel if they knew that a Dip HE nurse manager like myself has been a sign off mentor for years and has been responsible for signing off both degree and Dip HE students in their last placement as capable to practice, and even assessed newly qualified nurses in Oral and IV drug administration! Sorry Rant Over On a more proactive note I am currently reasearching international frameworks. I will keep everyone updated if I find anything that will help our cause. Just to reassure you, I have also sent my share of emails to health ministers in AUS outlining our concerns. (Especially regarding the AQF framework misinterpretation.) I am also wondering what people think about contacting the Australian College of Nursing?? Not sure if they would be Pro UK nurses or not. It's good to see that our voices are collectively getting louder on here. Keep up the good work everyone, shows that UK nurses work well as a team! Ha Ha:wink: I read on the Oz Department of health site, that there are concerns re posts for graduate nurses, but as I've explained on a few emails now, the reason we were accepted by ANMAC, is that post grad experience is necessary, Oz has plenty of new graduates, from expos etc is was made apparent that experience is what Oz needed not degrees!! Edited July 6, 2014 by geordiegirl68 gramnar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyv Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Hi Hanny76. Pretty much the same as you. They sent the module outlines and a letter explaining the points and FHEQ level stating that 'students enter on the course rescinding the diploma and exiting with a degree following successful completion of the modules and dissertation'. One of the modules is now obsolete and there were no course outlines still available from.my diploma as it was so long ago! So...time will tell but they have had everything possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jac2011 Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Just been looking at the Diploma in Enrolled Nursing programme and they only do 400 hours practice as opposed to the 2800 hours Diploma nurses do in the UK??? How can they compare these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiegirl68 Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) Just been looking at the Diploma in Enrolled Nursing programme and they only do 400 hours practice as opposed to the 2800 hours Diploma nurses do in the UK??? How can they compare these? Great research Jac, any chance you, or someone can raise this with AHPRA on twitter? They are paying attention, but we need some more voices, they'll be fed up of mine! Edited July 6, 2014 by geordiegirl68 grannar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jac2011 Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I can do that later on, I am just going for my first day at my first newly qualified job today to get to know the staff and patients. Will be back later on! x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiegirl68 Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I can do that later on, I am just going for my first day at my first newly qualified job today to get to know the staff and patients. Will be back later on! x Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spratnat Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I sent an email last week to the Australian nursing and midwifery federation and they got back to me today and are looking into it. So hopefully that may help? Did anyone write anything off to the addresses I put up the other day? That is my next job, thought I'd try & find an email address for then though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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